Order, Senators! We now have quorum. Let us proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motions:- REVIEW OF EDUCATION POLICY TO MAINSTREAM STI THAT aware that Science, Technology and Innovation (STI) are critical to the attainment of Kenya’s Vision 2013, cognizant of the fact that harnessing of STI would stimulate industrialization and immensely contribute towards sustained growth of the country’s economy, the Senate calls upon the national Government to review education policies, to mainstream STI by ensuring that the curriculum at all levels of education right from pre-primary school level, meet the skills and demands necessary for fostering science, technology and innovation.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion. THAT, aware that national security is a prerequisite for containing a stable nation/state; concerned that Kenya continues to be confronted by factors that threaten national security such as terrorist attacks, road carnage, cattle rustling, inter-ethnic conflicts, food shortage and floods; further concerned that various forms of threats to the national security such as cyber crimes and terrorism constantly mutate thereby posing a challenge to security organs; appreciating the efforts of successive governments to safeguard national security; noting with

Next Order.

Even if there are no Statements, where is the Senate Majority Leader? Is there a Statement from the Senate Majority Leader?

Mr. Speaker, Sir---

Sen. Chelule, I am not aware you have been appointed the Senate Majority Leader.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was on the Floor yesterday and I wanted to respond to some Statements sought by Sen. Lonyangapuo.

Then proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am standing here as the Acting Chairperson for the Committee on Agriculture, Land and Natural Resources. I am standing in for my Chairperson.

Proceed, the Acting Chairperson. STATUS OF “ONE MILLION ACRES” IRRIGATION PROGRAMME

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to issue a Statement in regard to queries raised by Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo on the status of the one million acres irrigation programme as provided by the Ministry of Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries. Mr. Speaker, Sir, agriculture in Kenya is mainly rain-fed and cannot satisfy the country’s food needs. To increase agricultural production, there is need to increase the area under irrigation. At the moment, irrigation accounts for only 1.7 per cent of the total land area under agriculture, but directly contributes 3 per cent to the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and provides 18 per cent of the value of all agricultural produce. Kenya has an estimated irrigation potential of 1.3 hectares and a drainage potential of 225,000 hectares; however, 540,000 hectares of the irrigation potential can be developed with the current available water resource base. The remaining 800,000 hectares will require water harvesting and storage equivalent to annual water storage of 25 billion cubic metres. Currently, over 150,000 hectares and 30,000 hectares of land is under irrigation and drainage, respectively. This translates to 27 per cent and 13 per cent of the existing irrigation and drainage potential. However, the area under irrigation is only 9 per cent of the possible 1.3 million hectares that can be irrigated and integrated with water storage development. Vision 2030 provides a clear indication of the commitment by the Government of Kenya to enhance and promote irrigated agriculture to ensure food security. The first

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Kerrow?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, with all due respect to the hon. Senator, she is reading an extremely long Statement and I can see that there are very many pages remaining. Could we request that she tables for the relevant Member to look at it and simply summarize it?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It will help the Chairpersons of Committees, to realise that under the Presidential system they are now doing the work that Ministers used to do in the old system. When you are given the whole

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in fact, I am doing a summary. I have a bulky report and what I am doing is just a summary. I am almost through. So, allow me two minutes to clear.

Finish the Statement.

It is almost done, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Kerrow, you are looking at the document from very far. Most of the papers are attachments and I am sure she cannot read them.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Galana and Kulalu ranches are targeted to contribute one million acres. This will cost the Government Kshs250 billion. During the current financial year the Government has allocated Kshs3.2 billion. The Government is undertaking dam rehabilitation, road infrastructure and developing model farms, including soil suitability analysis. The expenditure to date is Kshs40 million. The expanded national irrigation programme is being implemented nationwide in the various counties since 2010. The Ministry has identified 180 community based irrigation projects across the country. This encompasses small holder irrigation schemes, medium community schemes and public schemes. To implement these projects, the Government, during the Financial Year 2013/2014 has allocated Kshs11,182,000,000. This will increase the area under irrigation by 1.5 million acres. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will give a copy of this report to Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo and leave the original on your table.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, I thank you for ordering the Committee yesterday to issue this Statement. You can see that some of my colleagues were impatient with the answer given because some of information is not very relevant to what I had asked. In this manifesto, it had been clearly mentioned that one million acres will be done within the next five years. That translates to 200,000 acres per year. Sen. Chelule says to irrigate 200,000 acres of land will cost them Kshs40 billion. This means that Kshs40 billion was supposed to be set aside this year for irrigation. From the answer, it is only Kshs3.2 billion that has been set aside. Is this project going to take off if what is required is Kshs40 billion and they have set aside only Kshs3 billion in this financial year? Secondly, they need to clarify the issue where an advertisement for expression of interest for consultancy was done in June. They are now in the process of awarding the consultancy. It means that when the consultancy is given, there is a possibility that the real actual work to be done on the ground might not take place this year, given that only Kshs3 billion has been set aside. I had also asked about the agenda of the Government to eliminate hunger that has become very stubborn in Kenya for long. Why were Galana and Kulalu private ranches in Tana River and Kilifi chosen when we know we have 47 counties? I expected the cake to be shared so that hunger can be mitigated. In Turkana County, for example, a lot of water has just been discovered. I expected a huge amount of about Kshs50 billion or Kshs100

Order Senator! Ask for clarification and not another submission. Conclude.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to hear clearly the criteria used to identify the two areas rather than all the other areas in Kenya.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very important matter. This is the pledge of the Jubilee Government. I would appreciate if the Acting Chairperson of the Committee, in addition to what Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo said, could clarify for the 180 community-based irrigation projects across the 47 counties. How are these projects selected in terms of the criteria? There are studies which have been in this country which clearly show that for every shilling invested in the Arid and Semi-Arid Areas (ASAL), you stand to make a return of Kshs5 as opposed to every shilling that you invest in the high potential areas. So, what criteria will the Government use to identify 180 community-based projects?

I am waiting for the Ministry of Devolution to respond.

Use the microphone!

Order! Sen. Kanainza, you need to follow the proceedings of the House. Once a Statement is made, clarifications are sought and the Chairperson must respond before we dispose of the matter.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have taken seriously the questions raised by the two Senators. You know I am only six hours old in that chair and I was only tabling a report. Therefore, I need to be given two weeks to critically look at the report. I will come back to this House with good answers.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You heard the Acting Chairperson of the Committee say that she was only given a Statement to come and read. The Acting Chairperson came here to represent the Chair, therefore, anatosha . So, she is required to respond to the queries which arise from the Statement that she raised. I think if the Acting Chairperson is not ready, she should not come and read a Statement on which she cannot answer supplementary questions.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is only fair that the Acting Chairperson is requesting to be given two weeks in which she will come back to respond. At the moment, she does not have facts, but she has taken note of the questions, otherwise, she is capable of answering them.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is also a House of learning. When will Sen. Chelule get an opportunity to learn? It is by doing the way she is doing. I think she is doing a commendable job. I only plead with my brother Sen. Kerrow who is senior and has been in Parliament for a longer time to let us young ones also grow and learn.

(Sen. Abdirahman)

Sen. (Dr.) Kuti, are you are on a point of order? Let us dispose of those points of order. I want to start with Sen. Janet’s plea of learning. By the way, she is not even the Vice Chairperson. She is just a Member of the Committee who has been delegated because the Chairperson and Vice Chairperson are away on official business. But on her own admission, she has confirmed that she has been sitting pretty on that Chair for six hours. Six hours is a lot of time for one to read a report, digest it, consider supplementary issues, get back, if in her own mind, she is not clear, so that by the time she comes to the Floor, she is fully prepared. Given that Sen. Janet Ong’era also talked of “when do the young ones learn”; that was a natural opportunity for her to learn. I think she has just refused to learn.

It is really important, for purposes of making use of the House, either we are ready to do the Statement or not. You know we can always allow for more time so that you can come back with a report. But two weeks is also a long time. In fact, we get fresh Statements within a week. So to get another week for clarifications, you can imagine what that will mean. Two weeks to get the Statement, two weeks to get clarifications and, maybe, when further clarifications are sought, another two weeks. We will be talking of over a month. So, we will excuse the Senator for today because, at least, she is holding brief. Maybe, she was not given sufficient brief. But I think for the Chairs, the Vice Chairs and others who volunteer, including agents of necessity, they must learn to do their homework. Thank you. Sen. Murkomen, maybe, you want to start with Sen. Daisy’s Statement. MANAGEMENT OF UWEZO FUND

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to make a Statement in reference to the request by Sen. Daisy Kanainza. I wish to state as follows. In reference to the first Question which is confirmation of when the Government intends to disburse the Kshs6 billion through the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) model, the response is as follows.

(Hon. Ethuro)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Senator has tried to answer my questions that I had asked three months ago. However, I have some concerns, especially with respect to the first response because they have really deviated from what I really wanted to know. The reason I stand here to speak is because I have the heart of the youth in me. I am their representative and want it to go on record that I am concerned about their issues. Therefore, the voice of the youth must be heard. We are not just here for some people to make decisions on our behalf---

Order, Sen. Kanainza! Seek clarifications. This is not a public baraza !

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am not going to be scared.

Order, Sen. Kanainza! If you have no clarifications to seek, just take your leave!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have a clarification.

Order, Sen. Kanainza! There are rules in this House.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. Today, I want to be on record saying the way this model has been done will be a total failure. The hon. Cabinet Secretary, Anne Waiguru, will really fail on this. I say so because---

Order!

I want to seek clarification. The reason I am saying that---

I thought you were going to, at least, make a difference!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am saying this because in my former constituency, I had started table banking, which is revolving about Kshs200 million. Therefore, I am talking from a point of knowledge. But I want to seek clarification from the Chairperson; how sure is he is that 75 per cent of that fund will be revolved? How will he determine that the 20 per cent which is going to be given out as a grant will get to the intended groups? Is he sure it will not be a one-off thing and people will not return the money? Those are the few clarifications I am seeking.

That is better.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would appreciate if the hon. Senator would clarify on the issues of sustainability of this fund with regards to two areas. One, in terms of the fund itself, does the Government intend to inject a similar amount every year, or is he simply relying on the devolving aspect that people will repay? Secondly, again in terms of sustainability now on the beneficiaries, the amount between Kshs50,000 to Kshs500,000 would mean an average of about maybe Kshs100,000. Most people would, probably, make Kshs100,000 or Kshs200,000. Would that really make a difference in terms of what the people want to do with their money?

Hon. Senators, as you can see, there is a lot of interest on this issue. So, we should really restrict our issues to just one request. You should formulate it before you reach the Dispatch Box. Yes, Sen. (Dr.) Kuti.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I just want a clarification. Any lending enterprise should have a structure to follow what has been lent out and to see that it is paid back. I just want to know whether there is infrastructure in place to ensure that what has been lent is paid back so that this becomes a revolving fund.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, one success story in this country is that of the CDF. The reason the CDF succeeded is because we created an Act of Parliament. Could the Chairperson tell us whether the Government has any plans, before releasing this money, to put in place an Act of Parliament that will govern this money? Secondly, why are Senators and Governors not involved?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, during campaigns, the first target group was the youth. However, it now seems as if women will benefit more than youth who were initially earmarked to benefit from this money.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to hear clearly why we are using Members of the National Assembly and yet, even today, we have an issue with the way they oversee CDF funds? Who sits in their committees? It is the people who campaigned for them. Who benefits from the money? It is the same people who have been working with them. I thought that this money was supposed to be given to sort out issues without any affiliation to any politicians? Those who stood against the current Members of Parliament will not benefit from it. That is what I know from the ground. We need to know how they will make sure everybody benefits from this money. We do not want to see people shedding tears for the next five years.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to seek two clarifications. One, how will the Uwezo Fund dovetail with the Women Enterprise Fund and the Youth Enterprise Fund? Are we likely to see a situation where the Uwezo Fund is taking up resources that may have otherwise gone to the two previous funds? Secondly, how does the Ministry intend to carry out capacity building for the young people in this country? Many of them are asking what is happening with regard to the Uwezo Fund and who has been given the tenders to distribute it to all the regions in this country.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand here to talk for the youth, especially those in my county Trans Nzoia. I would like to seek a further statement from the Chairperson who gave a reply to Sen. Kanainza’s statement. In my county, the youth have complied with all the conditions.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Senator to seek a fresh statement when we are still interrogating the one that was issued knowing very well that there is procedure for doing that?

The Senator is completely out of order! In fact, she started by admitting that she is out of order by saying that she wants to talk---

Order! Continue to sit. Sen. Kanainza, I will give you time to talk because you have requested. I know that you have spent a lot of time trying to formulate your issues.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I think I have learnt something.

Order, Senator! You did well in the first one. However, on the second one, you went back. Just ask why youth officers are not part of the team. It is that simple.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chairperson should explain why the district youth officers are not part of the team. The other clarification, as Sen. Sang has said, is about the people who are given tenders to carry out capacity building. This is of great concern because young people are very worried about this issue. We are also worried about the Public Procurement and Disposal Act (PPDA) and whether the real youth will access the 30 per cent contracts set aside for them.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to seek a clarification from the Chairperson of the Committee on Devolved Government. I would like to know why the Uwezo Fund is being given to politicians to run. Is this another gimmick by the Jubilee Government to buy Members of the National Assembly to support them? Why is this money not being given to the known organizations of women and youth?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to thank Sen. Kanainza for asking those questions. The clarifications that have been sought are very critical, some of which I do not have the answer to. First, there is the concern from Sen. Kanainza about the involvement of the youth. To me, it appears that the women side is more comfortable with the list I read out regarding those who are involved. However, the youth are not. The statement reads: in preparation and development of the Uwezo Fund, various stakeholders were consulted and they made invaluable contributions. I will mention, but a few; the National Youth Council, a substantive memorandum from the National Youth Agenda. I am a board member of the National Youth Agenda and I am aware that they prepared this memorandum.

Mr. Chairman, Sen. Kanainza is aware of the memorandum. The timing is the problem. This one was sent last week. When was yours sent?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am also aware that the memorandum was sent, but I do not know when. However, the point is this.

I am very happy because you have been following this issue very closely without writing notes. The depth of participation and involvement is still in question and I do not know what measurement can be used. However, I think the Cabinet Secretary has

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You heard the Chairman say that he is not sure whether the money will make a difference. Development principles demand that outputs are predetermined at times. That is measureable. The indicators are known. The output and final results are also known. He has done well considering that this is his first presentation. However, it is not in order for him to tell us that he is not sure whether this can make a difference. This causes doubts in all of us. ( Several hon. Senators stood up in their places)

Mr. Chairman, proceed. I have not given anybody else the opportunity. I only saw the Senator for Murang’a County just like the rest of you standing, but I did not speak.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is very clear that the Jubilee Coalition manifesto and the programme being pursued by the Ministry - this is also very clear in

Order Sen. Murkomen! Your own response to the bold statement made by Sen. Keter was that we, as a country, must remain optimistic. So, why are you denying yourself?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for reminding me. We are optimistic that it will make a difference. However, we will also be cautious that even we, as leaders, the youth and the women, must take the precautionary measures so that it makes a difference in their respective constituencies.

I have sorted that matter.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The clarification I sought that he is responding to has been taken out of context. Will the 50,000 limit for a group make a difference? It is not whether the whole Fund will make a difference.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just want to emphasize the point raised by Sen. Abdirahman on the technical evaluations. What he sought to know was whether there were technical inputs to pre-determine the desired results? I think that is a key question that we need to answer.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the Statement, it appears that that was done. Consultations were carried out, but I am not very sure as to what kind of consultations and so forth. I can find that out from further clarifications. I would like to tell Sen. Billow that even Kshs10,000 will make a big difference to a group of women who have grocery shops. So, Kshs50,000 will still make a substantial impact in their lives. There was a good question from Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale on whether there will be an Act of Parliament to regulate the management of this Fund. There are regulations that have been tabled in the National Assembly to give a legal framework to this. From my perspective, this House should have been involved in one way or the other in this Fund, either as Senators themselves or even as the Senate. Hopefully, when those regulations are tabled, it will come through the normal procedure which the Speaker of this House will determine whether they relate to counties or not, so that we can have an input as a House. There was a question as why Senators, Governors or Members of the County assemblies are not involved in the management of this fund. I am still baffled why they were not involved. I will make a follow up to ask the Cabinet Secretary why we were not involved because we are all representing certain interests. Even the Senator who requested for the Statement is representing youth interests in this House. With regard to affiliation to politicians, I think the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) model is affiliated to politicians. The Governor and Senators are both politicians. So, in response to Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo’s question, I think the question should be why all leaders are not involved. Time will come for us to debate Sen. Sang’s Bill. If the framework that brings the leadership in the counties was there, we would have had the opportunity to also have an input in such a framework. Sen. Sang sought to know the linkage between the Youth Enterprise Fund and the Women Enterprise Fund. Again, this was not in the initial Statement sought and so we will seek to be given that answer. It appears from the Statement that this Fund, unlike the

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not want to interrupt Sen. Kanainza when she said that she represents the youth in this Senate. I think it is important for you to confirm whether that is a statement of fact, because to my understanding she is a Senator, who according to the Constitution gives an opportunity to the youth to play a role in protecting the interests of the counties and county governments. Her statement implies that she is not here to protect the interests of the county and the county governments, but to protect the interests of the youth. Where in the Constitution is this founded? I have looked at Articles 96 and 98 to come to this concern.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I thought yesterday you had a very good treatise on the Political Parties Act. Today you have deliberately become selective. Article 98 (1) (c) states that there shall be two Members; one man and one woman representing the youth. What we need to confirm is whether Sen. Kanainza falls in that category. But in terms of the composition of the Senate, definitely representing the youth is a very valid function of the Senate. The Constitution also in other parts gives a range of other categories of persons; the elderly, the children, the youth, et cetera are all factored there. So, it is a constitutional obligation for each and every Senator - and even those who are not youths are under duty to protect the interests of youths. Of course, you know Article 100 also talks about Parliament representing the minorities or the marginalized.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed, I want to thank you for that correction. I would like it to come out clearly to the public that upon coming to the Senate as a Senator, you have a function and the function as founded in Article 96 is to protect the interests of the county and the county governments, which includes all the youth, persons with disabilities, all the young persons and everybody else. The intention of Article 98 was to make sure that in protecting the counties and county governments, also the youth and persons with disabilities participate. I do not want a situation where the youth will start thinking that I am no longer their Senator in Kakamega; that they have to look for Sen. Kanainza.

I have every reason to believe that the voters of Kakamega who voted for you appreciate your responsibility and they cannot be looking for any other Senator when it comes to matters of that particular county.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is worried of Sen. Kanainza because she comes from Kakamega. I want to assure him not to worry. Hon. Senators pursuant to the provision of Standing Order No.43 (2) ---

Sen. Keter, what authority do you have to issue that statement? What is it that you know that the rest of us do not know?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when I was seated there, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale seems to have been worried about Sen. Kanainza taking the whole youth population which constitutes about 60 per cent. Hon. Senators, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.43 (2), this is to present the Senate Business for the coming week from Tuesday 12th November, 2013. The Rules and Business Committee (RBC) will meet on Tuesday 12th November, 2013 at 12 noon to schedule business of the Senate for the week commencing 12th November, 2013. The Senate will continue with the Business in today’s Order Paper that will not have been concluded and consider a Motion by Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo calling upon the national Government to review education policies to mainstream and promote science technology and innovation at all levels of education. The Senate will also consider a Motion by Sen. G.G. Kariuki urging the national Government to constitute a Committee to undertake a comprehensive security review with a view to formulating modern strategies capable of containing crime and safeguarding national security interests. In addition, the Senate will consider a Motion of Adjournment by the Senate Majority Leader to enable Senators to participate in public hearings on the appeals for transfer of functions to county governments. On Thursday 14th November, 2013, public hearings on appeals for transfer of functions to county governments will commence. I hereby lay the Statement on the table. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, after I responded to the Statement by Sen. Wamatangi, on the issue of pollution of rivers by sewage from Nairobi, this response generated more interest and you ordered that we visit the site which we did yesterday. I would like to report that what is happening at that site and, in fact, downstream is a national disaster. We saw raw sewage being poured into the river at a rate of 30,000

You will respond the following Tuesday.

Most obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

I think that we must commend the Chairperson of the Committee on Health, Labour and Social Welfare for that initiative. Of course, from your findings you have now agreed with what the Members were actually expressing. So, you need that time really to dig into the matter some more and then give us a comprehensive report. What is it, Sen. Wamatangi?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would also like to thank the Chairperson for having taken that immediate action. There was a suggestion that was made here in the House that, indeed, that this is a national disaster, and desperate times call for desperate measures. I want to propose to the Chair that when they summon the officers who are concerned, they should even look into the possibility of ordering or requesting even assistance from our able forces, probably, to go and help in the construction of that main duct that crosses the rivers taking the sewage, so that we can save our people.

Sen. Wamatangi, you are also at liberty to participate in the proceedings of the Committee. Next Order!

Who had the Floor? Sen. Wamatangi!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to continue seconding this Bill by Sen. Khalwale. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I second this Bill with a clear conscience that it is well intended. This Bill has sought to do three most important things which, since the promulgation of our new Constitution, have been requiring to be set clear. The first one and most important is setting out of the order of precedence. This Bill seeks to set out that order very clearly. The order has been set in the Bill, but I would also want to request Sen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to contribute to this very important Motion. We feel that this will put to rest some confusion that we have experienced in the recent past, as it deals with three major items.

Order, Sen. Hassan! It is not a Motion.

Sorry, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is a Bill. Thank you for the correction. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Bill will put to rest the confusion that we, as a country, have had from the inception of our new Constitution, particularly, with regard to political offices. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Bill deals with three major items. We all know that each of these elective offices have specific roles to perform. Many a times instead of complementing each other, we tend to overlap and want to really cause some unnecessary power struggles at county and national levels. Actually, that contributes significantly to

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Bill that has been brought by our colleague, Sen. Khalwale. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we, as elected leaders, have an extremely important duty, because the 40 million Kenyans that we represent look upon us to represent them. They hope that we shall represent them without fear or favour. It is a very big undertaking that must be done with humility and respect for the people that we represent. Since we were elected, and as everybody in this country knows, there have been fake or what has been dabbed as “supremacy” wars between the Senate and the National Assembly and also sometimes, between the Senators and the Governors of the counties. We, as Senators, represent counties under Article 96 of the Constitution. In my opinion and belief, we have a much higher calling where we must show sobriety and lead from the front. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issues that are brought by this Bill may seem mundane to some people because they may not quite understand what we are doing, and they may tend to think that we are perpetuating that so-called war of supremacy, but we are not. I think it is high time we understood the purpose of titles and why they are used. Titles are not to show how big you are in a county. I do not know whether people in this county appreciate the sheer poverty that our people have to undergo every single day. I sincerely believe devolution is the thing that will help this country devolve from that abject poverty

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the Bill and really congratulate the Mover, because this is one of the Bills that I would refer to as a bold Bill. Mr. Speaker, Sir, when Kenyans voted overwhelmingly for the Constitution that is governing this country, they had very high hopes. In fact, 10 years ago – and I know that came with the NARC revolutions – Kenyans were voted to be one of the happiest people in the globe. That is because they had high expectations which were put in this Constitution. We had already suffered in the centralized kind of Government and we hoped that we would get better delivery of services, not only better, but closer and, of course, easier to access, and not for self glory. When the elections came this year, of course, people went out and voted and several months down the line, the citizens are already wondering whether this was really what they had voted for. There is one author called Robin Sharma – for those who read – who has done a very interesting book, The Leader Who Had No Title. He tries to explain that you do not need to be defined by a title for you to be a good leader. You can do good and you can do great without having very powerful titles preceding your name. In fact, we have had people in this country who have done great things, being recognized nationally and internationally without having to carry the title “His Excellency, Her Excellency”. They have done good things and great things for this country. We are talking about Very Important Persons (VIPs) as they are referred to in this country. When we do so, we are talking about 47 Governors, 67 Senators, 349 Members of the National Assembly, 47 Speakers of the county assemblies, two Speakers of the two Houses and over 2,000 Members of County Assembly (MCAs). If this madness is not tamed, I do not see how devolution, five years down the line, will be evaluated as having helped wananchi . Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I support this Bill because it will tame what is already going on, where everyone wants to show that they are fighting or they are more superior than the others. This House has been credited by being very modest and that can even be shown by the way we debate in this House. We not only have very experienced Members, but we have people with decorum. This has been demonstrated by all of us and no one can deny us that. We are not doing this so that we wear a very big hat to brag on the streets. I think everyone here is above that and my appeal is that this Bill is not taken out of context because we are a House of order. Even in the country, we have a Constitution. That is why we make laws so that we streamline things that were not there initially. This new Constitution, together with all these positions that have been created, definitely need a legal framework so that people do not just wake up and decide; “I am now Her Excellency.” Every time I sit down and hear “Her Excellency, the First Lady” thinking that you are referring to the First Lady that we know, only to see that there is another “First Lady.” I think this Bill will bring a lot of order in the country. I hope it can be supported across the board because it will bring order to this country. This Bill will definitely tame the errant ones because not everyone out there is bad. It will also tame those who think they own this country and others do not. It is very important that we do not lose the focus of devolution. Let people work very hard to make sure that services get

Senate Majority Leader.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also rise to support this Bill. In so doing, I would like to thank profusely the sponsor of this Bill, the Senator for Kakamega, Boni Khalwale, the great son of Kenya and one of the most prolific legislators that Kenya has had over the years. I say that with a lot of sincerity in spite of the small political skirmishes we have had with him before. I respect his acumen, intellectual ability and clarity of issues, especially on issues that touch on the welfare of our country. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we need a paradigm shift in this country; from a country where we worship titles and privileges to a country where we adore humility and service. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we should, going forward as a country, as we think about Kenya in the next 50 years, create a society where leaders are servants of people and not the bosses of the people who have put us in office. We are a country where if you are humble, you are seen to be a coward. On the contrary, I want to say, just as Sen. Wangari and Sen. Kembi-Gitura have said, among others, the greatest leaders are extremely humble, are assured of who they are. They do not go around creating hullabaloo; they do not try to be noticed or to impose their importance on people. Therefore, this Bill tries to help us reconnect with the leadership that is based on humility and such values. It does not matter what title you give me because I will still remain Kithure Kindiki. That is simple. Even if you refer to me as honourable or a Senator, I will still be the same person and will still do the things that I do. I have seen elected leaders - let us talk about ourselves - when they are asked to introduce themselves saying; my name is hon. Kithure Kindiki or Senator Kithure Kindiki. Your name is not Senator. The term Senator is not a name. Your name is Kithure Kindiki. It is the rest of us who should refer to you as Sen. James Orengo. You should not call yourself Sen. Orengo. It is other people who should call you Senator. However, in this country, everybody gets up to say; my name is honourable, Mr. or Mrs so and so. I think we need some decorum because it is very clumsy when I refer to myself as honourable. It is people who should be refer to me as honourable.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to follow in the footsteps of my former university professor and Senate Majority Leader, Sen. (Prof) Kindiki, in congratulating Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. As you all know, I enjoy the debates and personal friendship by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. Sometimes, we disagree on very passionate issues while maintaining the important relationship. This Bill is very important. First, we and the country need to appreciate that this is an (amendment) Bill. This means that someone somewhere, previously, thought about having order in the manner in which salutations would be done in this country. This also includes order in the manner we fly our flags in this country and how we use certain titles. In a society it is important to have order, a clear framework and mechanism for referring to each other. This also helps in doing away with the confusion that may arise. If a person was to come from another country and see people flying flags left, right and centre, what would he think? I attended one meeting where we had the President, the Deputy President and about ten Governors. When time came for Governors to talk I was very curious to listen to them. They started by referring to the President as “His Excellency” the President, the Deputy President as “His Excellency” the Deputy President, but when it came to Governors, they did not know what to say because they did not want to put themselves on the same footing with the President. When they are in a meeting where the President is not present, Governors have an opportunity to be referred to as His Excellency the Governor. We want to assist our Governors to come out of that confusion and embarrassment. I have seen situations in the counties where a Senator, Member of a County Assembly and County Assembly Officer are in the same meeting with the President and the Deputy President. On such occasions, they wonder how they should address the Governor and the Deputy Governor.

Thank you very much Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me a chance. I think there have been very great speeches today and I would not do dishonor to the great speeches that have been made this afternoon but begin by commending Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale for bringing this Bill. He put very good thought into this Bill. I remember once when I was in the National Assembly and a friend of mine who used to be an Assistant Minister, then at one point again he was just an ordinary Member of Parliament and eventually, he lost his seat and became a nominated councilor. When he met the former President Moi, he said: “Your Excellency, meet councilor, honourable, Assistant Minister Ochola Ogur”.

So, some of these titles really attract the absurd. But I think the spirit of humility that is being demonstrated in the manner in which our colleagues have said that this Bill is important, begins with good manners. One time, hon. Mwakwere made me very happy. I went to Mombasa and at the VIP Lounge, I was going to sign my name and put the date, but hon. Mwakwere had taken a page to remind everybody that really, there is no necessity of taking a whole page, you can simply write your name and date and whatever you want to write on one line. Many of us, when we go to the airport or visit a school, even a nursery school, we take a page or two pages and with a signature that probably takes two minutes to sign. Normally, you would find that something goes wrong with

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I thought that we were discussing order. Is it in order for Sen. Orengo to try to imagine that the President should have sacked the people whom he found in office serving together with Sen. Orengo in the Cabinet, for purposes of just showing that he has a national face, yet what we know from all those appointments that the President has made since he took over office has reflected the national face?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is an English philosopher who once said that if you are having an academic argument with a professor, who puts the proposition that you proved that a stone exists, the simplest way of ending that argument is just for him to kick it, instead of telling him that a stone is the roundness or hardness. It is better just to tell him to kick it. Sen. Murkomen, actually, I thought that you would be cheering me, because I think that even the United Republican Party (URP) has gotten a very bad deal in some appointments.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. When did my friend, Sen. James Orengo, start speaking on behalf of URP? Secondly, where is it indicated in the face, body, skin and colour of any Kenyan appointed to office, that he looks URP, TNA, UDF or ODM? I thought that we are all Kenyans. Where did Sen. Orengo get this argument that when you look at someone, he or she looks like URP?

You know, Sen. Murkomen told me at one time that he was party to the drafting of the Coalition Agreement---

Address the Chair!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am addressing the Chair.

I thought that you were addressing Sen. Murkomen.

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am just looking at him, but everything that I say is addressed the Chair. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, he told me that he actually took part in the drafting of that Coalition agreement. If what he told me is not correct, then we can have that talk again. But he told me that URP were entitled to 50 per cent---

Can we get back to the debate of the day?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am there. What I was trying to say is that if you want these titles, then you must have good manners and comply with the Constitution. The Constitution says that in electing governments or establishing institutions, you must show that truly the Kenyan face is reflected. I have gone to all these to show that Chapter Six of the Constitution is very important. All these things that I am talking about are to do with leadership and integrity. These titles come out of those who seek to lead Kenyans. If you want to lead Kenyans, then you must demonstrate that you abide by Chapter Six of the Constitution. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to conclude by saying that during the Third Reading, Sen.(Dr.) Khalwale and others should join in bringing many of the amendments that were proposed, especially on the issue of flying flags. Sometimes when I am on the road, the flags are all over and they confuse you. There are sirens and now everybody must have an escort vehicle. I do not know where this was gotten from. There was a time – so many years ago - that I was travelling from Arusha to Nairobi and the former Prime Minister of Sweden, Olof Palme, was being seen off by President Nyerere at that time. I was surprised because Prime Minister Palme came into the Kenya Airways which was bringing him to Nairobi and did not go first class or business class. He had four people and the manner in which he was brought to the airport was so calm. There is a culture amongst Kenyan leaders where everywhere they want to go, there must be traditional dancers. When you leave the country in the morning, you are

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this Bill. Sometimes we do lock horns with the bullfighter, but this time round, I want to fully support him for coming up with an excellent Bill and idea. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, following what Sen. Orengo was saying about simplicity, I want to remind him about the Bible – I think in St. Luke- where it says that those who exalt themselves will be humbled and those who humble themselves will be exalted. I think that, that is the spirit.

Sen. Murkomen just told us that it is in Mark. So, the two of you need to agree on the actual content for HANSARD purposes.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I had Credit 1 in Christian Religious Education (CRE).

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Sen. Kiraitu is right. There are four epistles in the Bible. The Book of Mathew has the same information---

Those are called Gospels. Epistles are different.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes, there are four Gospels and according to the four people, the message is one. So, he is right.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I did not know that Sen. Lonyangapuo was a professor of religious studies. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think that the message and spirit of the new Constitution is that we move away from imperial presidency, we should also move away from other smaller imperial presidents even at the village level. At one time in Washington DC, I was waiting for a taxi and immediately I flagged one down and got in, a well built person came and knocked at the door. He asked me whether he could share the taxi with me. I said that there was no problem with that. He came in and in the process, asked me whether I spoke Kiswahili and I said: “Yes.” It turned out that it was the American Ambassador to Tanzania and he came in so that we should share the fare. This did not reduce the status of the man, because in the process of our drive, we had a very nice chat about the politics of Tanzania; whether Ujamaa had really penetrated the village or it was an elite thing. I was very impressed by that person. I think that this is the leadership that we should be looking for. These days, we are talking about servant leadership; that the greatest leader is the greatest servant of the people. I think that this is what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is trying to do in a small way through this Bill. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, even if you fly a flag and then people know that you are a bankrupt leader; you do not even care about the people, you will not have any respect. But even if you walk on foot – and President Nyerere did not have a mansion by the time

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you look at the national days, we are not attending them as Senators because no provision is made for us and, you know, you cannot go to push and shove in order to get somewhere to sit. I think the time has come for us to request, through the Senate Majority Leader – who is the de facto Prime Minister – to talk to the people in protocol so that arrangements can be made for Senators to sit at a designated area when we go to Nyayo Stadium or Uhuru Park during the national days. Like now, we are going to have the 50th Anniversary of our Independence; in 1963, Sen. G.G. Kariuki here was a Member of Parliament, and he should be one of the people we should be celebrating with these Jubilee celebrations. Therefore, people like him should be sitting somewhere near the front because, I think, he is Senator Number One. But the way things are, he might go there and find he has no seat, and it will be very embarrassing! So, I think this protocol which is being proposed in this Bill has been very well thought out and I think we should all support it. Nobody has any doubt that the President leads the pack, followed by the Deputy President, the Chief Justice, the Speaker of the Senate, then the Speaker of the National Assembly, then the Cabinet Secretaries, the Attorney-General, the Senators, Governors, Members of Parliament, the Speakers of County Assemblies and Members of the County Assemblies. I think this protocol is very well thought out and I would like to support it.

Order, hon. Senators!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I know that hon. Senators are getting impatient with me; but let me conclude by saying this. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, regarding the flags, I think it is the late Minister Lotodo, who was then the lion of West Pokot, who, at one time, had the flag taken away from him. He was taken to court in Nakuru and charged with participating in war-like activities. Then, you get out and there are some problems there, and he stood for his people. This time, it was about the lime – and he was a Cabinet Minister – and he said “These people will not take lime from Pokot to go and use it in a cement factory in Uganda; the cement factory has to be done in Pokot;” halafu bendera ikachukuliwa . Then he said “This is a piece of cloth; if they want to take it, they can take it, but the factory has to be done within Pokot.” Now, I do not want to demean the flag; it has a lot of meaning; it is an important symbol for this country and I think we should not abuse it by making it too common or too obvious. The more rare a commodity is, the more precious it becomes. So, I want to support the proposal that the flag be flown by His Excellency the President, the Deputy President, the Speaker of the National Assembly, the Speaker of the Senate and the Chief Justice. I think those are enough. As for the rest, if they mention Sen. Chris Obure, who does not know that he is a great leader in Kisii County? I do not need a flag; my face alone is a flag in Meru!

Sure! You are right!

So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, even the Provincial Commissioner (PC) in Kitui, the wananchi know his face and as I said before, a lion does not go saying “I am the lion;” all animals know that and they start taking the corners when the lion is around. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to support the Bill and thank Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale very much for bringing it here. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I stand to thank my colleague, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, for bringing this Bill, I remind Sen. Kiraitu that I am a professor of Applied Mathematics. I am not a professor of religion, but I am a religious person.

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand to support the Bill by Boni Khalwale. I will not repeat myself because all the speakers before me have pointed out most of the facts that I wanted to enumerate. I recently attended a function where the former Prime Minister was unveiling his book and one of the speakers at the function made a very enlightening statement. He said that in this world, there are only two types of people; missionaries and mercenaries. He went further to state that the Right hon. Prime Minister was in the category of missionaries and further stated that missionaries are not celebrated or recognized in their lives and hardly enjoy the fruits of their labour. As I sat in that audience listening to the statement, that came as an awakening call. The person who made this statement was also a leader. By stating that, I wondered where he had placed himself because his body language showed that he did not want to be classified as a missionary. Therefore, that meant, by extension, that he enjoyed being classified in the categories of mercenaries. After I left that function, the only thing I carried with me was that statement. The statement is so true in our society and in our lives that it kept me thinking.

I went to the drawing board and started wondering how I am classified as a leader. Am I classified under the category of missionaries or the one of mercenaries? I went through history and realised that missionaries are not celebrated. They are hardly recognized nor celebrated. We do not even remember their names. However, their works and every seed that they planted in this world are enjoyed by all of us who came after. If I were to ask you; who started the schools that you went to? You will not remember the missionary, but the school, the church and all the other facilities that they brought saved lives and gave us the key to life which is education. Mercenaries are opportunists who are celebrated, but missionaries are the real leaders. This really captures the mood and the spirit of this Motion. I once went to receive some investors – in my other life, I was also a business woman – who came to partner with me in some investment, and when I picked them at the airport, as we drove along the streets of Nairobi towards my office, they suddenly went quiet and I was very surprised because I had held meetings with them before in their countries and I knew them to be a loud group. When we reached my office, they asked me whether I was sure that we were in Kenya. I asked them what they meant and they

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to support this well thought out Bill by my good friend, Sen. (Dr.) Boni Khalwale. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have to start with a book that I went through, written by “Senator No. 1”, hon. G.G. Kariuki. The title of the book is “Illusion of

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for allowing me to contribute to this Bill. Madam Temporary Speaker, first of all, I want to thank Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale for coming up with this Bill, which really is to set order in the way leaders relate with each other and those who have elected us. They want to see us as servants because, according to the Constitution, sovereign power belongs to the people. Even titles that we acquire are by virtue of the authority that we derive from the people. Madam Temporary Speaker, the order which this Bill seeks to bring in place is going to be the cure of the confusion that seems to be there quietly or loudly in functions, offices and correspondences. Nobody should look at this Bill as one that is trying to demean or fix anybody. It is merely a Bill that seeks to set records straight, so that everybody knows his role and title, according to the functions that they have been given. Madam Temporary Speaker, a name is just a name, but sometimes as human beings, we want to put a lot of meaning and read a lot of things in names. There was, for instance, a time when the National Security Intelligence Service (NSIS) was formed from the previous Special Branch. Then there came a title called Director-General. Eventually every head of department wanted to be called director-general. Everybody, even those who were commissioners wanted it, yet we really did not know what a commissioner was and what the director-general was. I do not know why those who drafted the Constitution did it, but they changed the name of the Commissioner of Police, for instance, to Inspector-General. Now, looking at it, the name “Inspector” is a very junior position compared to that of a Commissioner, because an inspector is supposed to be a junior officer. But because the Constitution was there and it came into place, Mr. Kimaiyo is called “Inspector-General.” We have not seen anybody complaining about it. I understand that in the United Kingdom (UK), some senior heads of police are called “Constables” and they are happy with that name. So, surely, whatever title is given here, it does not mean that you are being demoted or demeaned in any way. Madam Temporary Speaker, I have looked at the list and because our Constitution recognizes that we have two national languages, I think that at an appropriate stage, an amendment could be made to also translate these titles into Kiswahili so that if you have

The reason I am saying we should have a Kiswahili version is because when I was in my county and the people were trying to get used to the names

Your Excellency the Governor; you know, it creates a lot of confusion. So, it is better for those of our people, the wananchi, to know what name to refer to or what title to call an official in any function, because right now, they seem to be confused. We also want to know who is entitled to be the First Lady, and this should come from us. Let us not leave any title unattended to or not placed in the pecking order. Madam Temporary Speaker, in trying to set the list of precedence, I think we are also trying to correct the confusion that seems to be in the counties. I believe this is also in the interest of our colleagues in the counties – the Governors and County Commissioners. I remember when I attended the last function in my county, there was really confusion as to who the chief person in that function was; whether it was the Governor or the County Commissioner, who says he or she represents the President. There was also confusion as to who invites who to speak; is it the County Commissioner to invite the Governor to speak, or is it the Deputy Governor to invite the County Commissioner? Or is it the Senator to invite the Governor? Of course, I could not do that because I represent the county. Who, at that level, is more senior to the other when it comes to functions? Eventually, when it came to being there on the dais to receive the march past and so forth, both the County Commissioner and the Governor had to be there. But I think things must be set straight and it is the responsibility of this House to enact legislation to bring order, because when order is not there and the wananchi are there trying to look, they are wondering what the Government is doing because they see it and they talk about it. It is really a shame that we have hitherto not given any direction on this matter. I am aware that when we were elected and the idea of “Your Excellency” came in, my Governor said “surely no; do not call me your Excellency; I will just be referred to as Governor so-and-so;” and we all thought it was a joke. Eventually, it came to pass – and I am yet to know – but I do not think most Governors would be averse to having a title of a “Governor,” which in itself is a big and respectable name. We should not read too much into it and say that if we remove the title “Your Excellency” they will object. I will not expect that and I think these are responsible citizens. These are leaders that were elected by the people and they will gladly accept any title that will be seen to be fit for use. I think this title was also imposed. I do not know whether it was the Transition Authority (TA) which brought it. I also do not know

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. First, I want to thank Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale for bringing this Bill. This Bill has really touched my heart. I, being a leader, who has been serving poor people in my community, understand what we mean by leaders humbling themselves to the level of people they are serving. This is embarrassing because I remember when we were running round marshalling votes to help us come to this House, we were humble. We would even open extra access roads in the village and go to the grassroots to look for votes. However, after the elections, we forget that we have a duty and responsibility to carry out. I support this Bill with amendments so that we can organize ourselves. This Senate has a duty and responsibility to bring order and sanity in our county governments. If we cannot introduce order as leaders, then who else will come to rescue our people? For sure, it is embarrassing that at times, you will find our leaders within the counties and elsewhere flying national flags. Our people have learnt that the flag is a sign that their leaders are present. However, immediately they get into their offices, the

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for allowing me to contribute. I would like to say that I support this Bill. My, brother, Boni, is known for very good debates here. He sat one day and thought that issues in this country must be put in order because they are not in order. For sure, my brother, you deserve applause from the whole country. Leaders were elected and now, they are trying to compete who is who. Everybody is trying to show that they are bigger than the other person who was elected. Just as Madam Senator has said, when we were looking for votes, we promised to give them servant leadership and told them that we would always be with them. We told them that we would always humble ourselves to the old ladies, children and if possible, we will be mentors of those children. Our society is right now in big problems. Our children have no mentors simply because of the direction that many of our leaders have taken. If we were to define who a leader is, we would start by saying that this is a person who humbles himself or herself in front of other people. That is lacking and when Sen.(Dr.) Khalwale came up with this Bill; all of us felt that we had a duty to support and to shout that it is a good Bill. When I look at the President, Governors, national Government and the county governments, I see it as the structure we have now. I could compare this to the structure we have in the church where we have bishops and other pastors. There is no time we have heard a pastor saying that he is a “small bishop.” A pastor will always appreciate and he or she will refer to the bishop as “my bishop.” When a bishop is visiting a local church, one can always tell that a bishop is visiting. There are many Catholic bishops in this country but we have not heard them referring to themselves as small popes. However, after our people were promised servant leadership by our Governors, some of them decided to show that they are small kings. They started giving themselves the title of small presidents simply out of their own ambitions. Others feel that probably when the President expires, the other people who will take up that seat will be one who has served as a Governor. That is not true. This issue of referring to the Governor as His Excellency is mischievous and the worst thing we should allow to go on. I thank my brother because with this Bill, he has put up a position that if you are a Governor or a Senator, you should be referred to by the name that you used when people were electing you and that will bring order.

Order! Sen. Mositet, you will have 15 minutes to continue when this debate resumes.

Hon. Senators, it is now time for interruption of business. This House, therefore, stands adjourned until Tuesday, 12th November, 20 13, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m.