Hon. Senators, I am informed that we have a quorum.

Hon. Senators, as you are aware, the Senators concluded the countrywide public hearing exercise on the county appeals on transfer of functions. This exercise was spearheaded by the Sessional Committee on Devolved Government under whose mandate the matter falls. Consequently, the Chairperson of the Sessional Committee on Devolved Government has requested the Speaker to convene a Kamukunji, and you all know what a Kamukunji is in line with the traditions of this House, which will serve as a forum for all Senators to chart the way forward on the matter. Hon. Senators, this is, therefore, to invite all of you to a Kamukunji which will be held on Tuesday, 3rd December, 2013 at 11.00 a.m. in the Senate Chamber at KICC. I appeal to all Senators to attend this very important forum as we jointly seek solutions for the betterment of our counties. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Sessional Committee on Devolved Government on the establishment of cities, municipalities and towns under the Urban Areas and Cities Act. In the Statement, the Chairperson should address the following: (i) Which counties have operationalised the Act by establishing management of cities and urban areas; (ii) why it has taken so long to operationalise the Act; and, (ii) how long it will take to operationalise the Act in all the counties.

Is the Chairman of the Sessional Committee in the House? Any Member? Majority Leader?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think the Statement can be availed within a week.

Thank you. Next Order.

Hon. Senators, as you can see from the Order Paper, the Senate Majority Leader was overtaken during Statements and he has requested to basically lay the Statement on the Table but at the same time I have given leeway to go back The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following two Motions. COUNTRYWIDE CIVIC EDUCATION ON NEW DEVOLVED SYSTEM THAT, noting that the Constitution of Kenya, 2010 fundamentally changed the architecture of government in the country; aware that many people in Kenya including elected leaders are not conversant with the new structure and especially the devolved system, the Senate urges the national executive to undertake comprehensive well- structured and systematic civic education countrywide on the new system so that the Kenyan people can understand and positively participate in its implementation. This Notice of Motion is given on behalf of Sen. Wako. IMPLEMENTATION OF THE PROHIBITION OF FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION ACT, 2011 I beg to give Notice of the second Motion given on behalf of Sen. Lesuuda. THAT, noting that Article 25 of the Constitution recognizes freedom from torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment as a fundamental right that may not be limited; also aware that Article 28 provides that every person has inherent dignity and the right to have that dignity respected and protected; further aware that the prohibition of Female Genital Mutilation Act, 2011 was aimed at prohibiting the practice of Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) to, among others, safeguard against violation of a person’s mental or physical integrity; concerned that the Act has not been fully operationalised, the Senate calls on the national executive, to take immediate measures to fully implement the prohibition of FGM Act, 2011 especially the creation and funding of the Anti-Female Genital Mutilation Board to lead and coordinate efforts against rights abuses, particularly of children.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindki): Hon. Senators, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.43(2), I wish to present business for the coming week as follows: (i) Tuesday, 3rd December, 2013 – The Rules and Business Committee will meet on Tuesday, 3rd December at 12.00 noon to schedule business of the Senate for the coming week. On that day, the Senate will continue with the business in today’s Order Paper that would not have been concluded and consider a Motion by Sen. Wako urging the national executive to carry out countrywide civic education on the new system of Government in order for Kenyans to understand and positively participate in the implementation of the Constitution. Further, the Senate will continue deliberating on reports of familiarization visits by the Standing Committee on Energy, Roads and Transportation. The Senate will also consider a Motion by the Senate Majority Leader to approve the National Honours Regulations, 2013. (ii) On Wednesday, 4th December, 2013, during the morning sitting, the Senate will continue with business not concluded on Tuesday 3rd December, 2013 and consider a Motion by Sen. Lesuuda on Implementation of Prohibition of FGM Act, 2011. The Senate will also consider a Motion by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale calling upon the national Government to comprehensively deal with the compensation of former detainees and those unfairly dismissed after the 1982 coup. (iii)On Wednesday, 4th December, 2013 the same day in the afternoon, the Senate will continue with the business not concluded on Tuesday and Wednesday morning and consider any other business scheduled by the Rules and Business Committee. The Senate will also consider a Motion by Sen. G. G. Kariuki urging the national Government to constitute a Committee to undertake a comprehensive security review with a view of formulating modern strategies capable of containing crime and safeguarding national security interests. In addition, the Senate will consider Motions by the Senate Majority Leader to concur with the National Assembly on the appointment of Members to the Pan-African Parliament and to Note the Advisory Opinion by the Supreme Court of Kenya in Advisory Opinion reference No.2 of 2013 of 1st November, 2013. (iv)On Thursday, 5th December, 2013 the Senate will continue with business not concluded on Wednesday afternoon and consider any other business scheduled by the Rules and Business Committee. The Senate Majority Leader will also move a Motion of Adjournment of the Senate for the recess in accordance with the calendar of the Senate. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hereby lay the Statement on the Table.

Hon. Senators, under Standing Order No.39(2), since the time designated for Order No.11 has not reached and we still have about ten The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order, Senators! The consultations are too high. For avoidance of doubt, the business in Order No.11 will resume in the next ten minutes.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, aware that national security is prerequisite for maintaining a stable nation state; concerned that Kenya continues to be confronted by factors that threaten national security such as terrorist attacks, road carnage, cattle rustling, inter-ethnic conflicts, food shortage and floods; further concerned that various forms of threats to national security, such as cyber-crime and terrorism, constantly mutate thereby posing a challenge to security organs; appreciating the efforts of successive governments to safeguard national security; noting with concern that despite the efforts insecurity continues to increase; further noting that no security review has been carried out since independence to forge a common strategy on safeguarding national security; the Senate urges the national Government to constitute a Committee to undertake a comprehensive security review with a view to formulating modern strategies capable of containing crime and safeguarding national security interests Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the way this Motion is framed is self-explanatory but because we have to debate it and go further to some points that may not have been raised in the Motion, I beg your permission now to move on and discuss national security. I am using the definition as authored by Prof. Charles Maier of Harvard University, who described national security as capacity to control those domestic or foreign conditions and public opinion of a given community which are believed to be necessary to enjoy its own self-determination or autonomy, prosperity and well-being. Another definition which is also relevant to this Motion, before we move on is from Probakaras Parell, author of the book; The National Security, Imperatives andChallenges . It is also useful because it defines national security as a state of capability of a nation to overcome the most dimensional threat to the apparent well-being of its people and its survival as a nation or state at any given time by balancing all these instruments, state policy, through governance. This is not the end of the people I would like to refer to. There are others like Hann Morgan, which I am sure having read constitutional law, you may be familiar with, and also my The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise on this point of order to seek your guidance on the constitutionality of this Motion. The Motion calls for specifically the constitution of a committee to undertake security review and formulate security strategies on security matters. The Constitution provides for the National Security Council which is in effect a committee of experts. I do not understand how we can set up a committee of sorts to undertake the role of a constitutional organ. So, I wanted your guidance whether indeed in looking at this, we are not treading on dangerous grounds with regard to the Constitution.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, I am very well aware that this Motion was approved by the Speaker and the entire House in terms of the Clerk and the Speaker. So, I am sure they consulted the Constitution. I am also very well aware that this is not infringing on the Constitution because national security does not know experts who are engaged outside the national security committee. I am very much aware of that. If you want to bring in other experts, you can do anything you want in terms of appointing any person from outside or inside to come and give advice. So, I am very much aware that I am still within the Constitution in moving this Motion.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I think security matters are not the same as other matters. The import of this Motion is that a committee has to be constituted nationally by the national Government. Is it the understanding of this House that we have lost faith in the National Security Council which is a committee mandated by the Constitution to specifically deal with this aspect? When we urge the national Government, what message are we sending? That the national Government has failed, through the National Security Council and the National Intelligence Security and so forth---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Order, Acting Minority Leader. I have seen the debate and the point of order raised by Sen. Billow. Whereas Sen. Billow has issues to do with security and formation of a committee, he also goes ahead to refer to the National Security Council as a committee. It is not a committee. In my estimation and decision, I would like to rule that the Mover of the Motion continues with moving the Motion and if Sen. Billow has specific issues to the Motion, he can introduce an amendment at an appropriate stage.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you have correctly ruled, but currently, there are challenges that the country is facing, This Motion gives us an opportunity to explain ways in which the rising insecurity can actually be The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I personally think Sen. G.G. Kariuki has every right to move this Motion because any legislator can move an amendment to the National Security Act. It is the prerogative of this House to make observations or make a precursor of a situation that will enforce or enhance the movement of the amendment of the National Security Act, which I think is defective.

I think the two Senators who spoke after my ruling were just affirming what I had already decided. Proceed, Sen. G.G. Kariuki.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will not go back to what you have just ruled, but I think as Members of this House, we have to educate each other. When one thinks that he has a point that he wants to raise and the Speaker agrees with it, I think our duty is now to debate. I want to agree with my friend, Sen. Hassan, who has just said that this is a very good opportunity for all of us to discuss security in this country. It is only two days ago that we met all the national officials who deal with security matters, and in that meeting, I want to say on my behalf and on behalf of other Senators that it was not what we really expected because it was a question and answer session. Here we are concerned with the national strategic policy of dealing with security matters in this country. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we know very well that security matters have never been reviewed since Independence. Whatever we borrowed from the British in the way of fighting crime and whatever goes with it, we have never changed. The current Constitution does not stop any one of us to be concerned about the security of Kenyans and that is why we are here. In fact, if we can convince the Government---, and everybody is aware, it is difficult to sustain ourselves even in our own homes. We should be very frank. This is a matter I thought no Senator will doubt what we are trying to say. Of course, every Senator has his or her own views on any Motion. We must not all agree on every issue. We could have conflicting opinions and we should be given that latitude to make our own personal and independent feelings. I have indicated in this Motion that in this Committee, we should try to find out whether there is need for a new security doctrine. Those who read the American Constitution many years ago, in 1823, there was a crisis in America when colonization was taking place in north and southern Africa, and the President at that time, James Monroe, decided to issue a declaration that no European country will be allowed to colonize America. Here, we need to change the mentality of the country because security belongs to all of us. The moment you continue keeping security matters secret, claiming that it is a national issue and people will think that you are talking against the national Government, I think this is a big mistake. The Government has the right to deal with issues the way it feels but this House also has a legitimate right to stand firm and sometimes direct the Government on issues of national importance because I do not think there is any other important issue like this one. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, our country will get investments as and when people will feel secure with their investments and in whatever they do in this country. Right now, you are The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. With due respect to Sen. G.G. Kariuki, I did not intend to interrupt him but I just want to remind you that you had said that we will go to the next order after ten minutes. It is now after 20 minutes. This is just to remind you so that as he continues to contribute, we are mindful of the next order which is very crucial.

Sen. G.G. Kariuki indeed, the Speaker ruled as such but again we consider your Motion very important when it comes to matters of security. How much more time would you need to move this Motion before the Speaker can make a decision?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if I am given all my time, you know I have enough to say about it unless the House wants to request for some of my time. If it is the question of moving the Motion, I have already done it.

Anyway, you still have 20 more minutes, so you can proceed to move the Motion and invite the Senator who is seconding it.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with due respect, where is this confusion coming from?

I am saying that you still have a balance of 20 minutes to move your Motion

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am sorry for what is happening.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Overruled. Proceed, Sen. G.G. Kariuki.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, maybe I am not quite clear. My political understanding must be failing, if I do not understand the politics of this House. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Kenya, including Parliament---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Overruled. Hon. Senators, you must all realize that we are constrained with time and for that reason, the more you interrupt Sen. G.G. Kariuki, the more we will spend more time---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. This is a very important Motion touching on the national security of this country and it deserves a proper hearing when there is complete silence and so on. But in the light of the constraints of time, I would rather that Sen. G.G. Kariuki stops now, we know he has 20 minutes to go and when we have finished those other matters which are the subject of discussions around here, then people will be able to listen to him very carefully and contribute very constructively on this important issue of national security. I beg that you go by your prior ruling that we now go to the other Order and we note that Sen. G.G. Kariuki has 20 minutes to go.

Order, Sen. Wako. You are not the Chair. Where did you get the 20 minutes?

I heard you say that he is remaining with 20 more minutes. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Sen. Wako, this is a House of rules; until I give you the opportunity to say anything---. Hon. Senators, Sen. G.G. Kariuki is remaining with five minutes and it is important that we do not interrupt his remaining five minutes so that he can complete moving the Motion and we move to the next business.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to concur with the wishes of this House, that they would want me to give my time for the sake of the next business and I am happy to accept. I have already moved the Motion and I will have enough time later on.

Now, you know the rules; when you make such a move, you have to look for someone to second you.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will ask Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo to second.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I stand to second--

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, what are you standing to second?

I am seconding the Motion, Sir.

No, that is not what I requested. Sen. G.G. Kariuki made a request that his Motion be deferred. So, he needed somebody to second that particular request. Hon. Senators, you know the Standing Orders are very clear. There is no Motion in the House until that Motion is moved and someone seconds it before then we can move a dilatory Motion by anyone. So, as it stands, we need to allow Sen. G.G. Kariuki to complete his five minutes, then his Motion can be seconded before we defer it. If the Senators are saying that security matters are very important, then it is important that it be moved at this time when everybody is here for the remaining five minutes.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I stand to second this Motion and in doing so, I want to thank Sen. G.G. Kariuki and all of us for agreeing to listen and speak to this Motion in detail, given the nature of security demands in this country. Security is very paramount and we need to thoroughly look at those aspects and ask the national Government as indicated in the Motion, to constitute a committee that will enrich the National Security Committee. As legislators, we are asking that this is harnessed because of the threats that we are experiencing in our country. All the problems we are experiencing have been enlisted here. It is not fair to continue using the old tactics and regulations that were in place long before Independence as enumerated by Sen. G.G. Kariuki, given his history as one of the longest serving Ministers for Internal Security. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the external threats that we are experiencing from our neighbours demand that we look at our borders so keenly. It necessitates that we put a lot of efforts as Senators into looking at this situation and asking the national Government to deal with it as a priority on top of the other development agenda that we have. What does it profit us to move into any development without dealing with the security of our country? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We appreciate the importance of the Motion before the House. I also do agree with Sen. Wako that this is a matter which needs to be debated and given a lot of time, when the House has all the time and mind for this Motion. Some of us were supposed to go to Mombasa today, but we were requested to stay behind because of the other business which is pending before the House. I think that, that is why most of the Members have made the effort to be here. Therefore, I would like to move, under Standing Order No.97, that the debate on this Motion be now adjourned, so that the House can discuss the next business of this House. We will come to this debate after we dispose of the other business for which we had been requested to be in the House today. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to ask Sen. Keter to second the Motion.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Machage? A Motion is being seconded.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that is why this point of order has to be listened to. Did you notice that the Seconder of Sen. G.G. Kariuki’s Motion actually seconded the Motion of enriching the National Security Council and not the Motion that was moved by Sen. G.G. Kariuki?

Sen. Machage, as far as I am concerned, he seconded a Motion with his own contributions to the same Motion. So, his contribution included enriching the National Security Council and there is nothing wrong with that. It is perfect.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wish to second the Motion by my former boss and senior, Sen. Kiraitu Murungi, because of the urgency of the next business. Some of us did not travel to Mombasa and are here purposely for this business. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we are aware that the Motion by Sen. G.G. Kariuki is also very important, even though we are going to make amendments to it at the right time. I saw him getting agitated, but I wish to assure him that I will support him on this Motion, though with some amendments. So, he should be assured of my vote on this Motion. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to second.

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Hon. Senators, I do not know if you are aware that we have a Supplementary Order Paper. We will use it when we move to Order No.11. Next Order!

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. We have noticed that a few minutes ago, you were the presiding Temporary Speaker, and now you are the Chair of the Committee. How will you report to yourself?

Sen. Machage, you are aware that the Members would like to go to the main business. They would not want their Chair to give a lecture on the Standing Orders. So, I will ask you to revise the Standing Orders as we continue. There is a mechanism of doing that. I will let you know when the time comes. Hon. Senators, we are now in the Committee of the Whole to deliberate on the County Governments (Amendment) (No.2) Bill, 2013, Senate Bills No.4. All the amendments are in the Supplementary Order Paper. Can the Supplementary Order Paper be given to all the Members? While the Supplementary Order Paper is being circulated, we will allow Sen. Sang to proceed, because of time.

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

On a point of order!

(Sen. Murkomen)

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, it is Clause 2 with various sub-sections. Under Sub-section (c) of the same Clause, we are proposing that we delete the word “adopt;” and this comes after discussions where we agreed that the work of the Board will be to consider and recommend and, therefore, we are substituting the word “adopt” so that, then, the Board remains an advisory one and not an executive one as it had initially been misconstrued. Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, we also have some amendments with regard to Sub- Clause (d). The amendment seeks to state that the meetings of the Board shall be at the county headquarters. We had not provided where the meetings will be held and we found it necessary as a Committee to propose that the meetings of the Board shall be held at the county headquarters. Therefore, those are the amendments that the Committee is proposing with regard to Clause 2. Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I beg to move.

Sen. Billow Kerrow.

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I have a problem with the amendment proposed in Clause 2(v), which reads: “by inserting the following new paragraphs immediately after paragraph (n)- the County Commissioner, as an ex-officio member;” That is okay; but the next one in sub-clause (p), which reads: “Any departmental head of the national and county government may attend---” Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I am---

For the sake of those who do not have the Order Paper, please read all of it.

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, it says:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Sen. Keter.

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I think part (v) is very clear; it says “at the invitation of the Board.” There could be specialization which we require the head of a section to appear before that advisory board. Hence, it is not the whole section but only those who are heading those sections, and only at the invitation of the Board. That is very clear. I do not know whether Sen. Kerrow has this document, because it is indicated “at the invitation of the Board.” So, it is very clear.

Sen. (Dr.) Machage.

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I wanted to stress on the point that has just been raised by Sen. Keter. This is a very important clause “at the invitation of the Board;” because sometimes we need professional input on some of the deliberations in that Board. So, this clause is quite okay; I do not agree with Sen. Billow Kerrow.

Sen. Billow Kerrow, have you changed your mind?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Chairperson.

Okay. Sen. Sang, let us proceed to the next clause.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir. I propose that Clause 3 be amended---

Order, Sen. Sang! Order! Just pause briefly. You are saying that Clauses 3 and 4 are new clauses, right? That means that they will have to go through the Second Reading. So, for that reason, we would like you to respond to Clause 2 in terms of the debate that has taken place and then we will dispose of Clause 2 before I put the question, we will then combine the New Clauses; Clauses 3 and 4.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir. I think the issue raised by Sen. Billow with regard to the aspect of some of the departmental heads within the national and county governments - the key point was responded to by Sen. Keter and Sen. (Dr.) Machage. The fact is that we will only invite the departmental heads when we think we need to discuss a particular issue. So, any of those departmental heads could be invited only when we are transacting business that relates to their departments, and I think that should address the concerns of a bloated membership of the Board. That is as far as I would want to respond.

Thank you. Hon. Senators, let us go to Division. So, I will put the Question, that Clause 2 be amended as proposed in the Order Paper. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Sen. Njoroge

Nil

Sen. Ong’era

Hon. Senators, the results are in for new clause 2. They are as follows:-

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after clause 2- 3. The principal Act is amended in section 91 by deleting paragraph (f). The principal Act, which is the County Government Act, under Section 91 (f) provides that the county Government will establish avenues for elected leaders not limited to Senators and Members of the National Assembly to contribute in the running of the county Government. The clause in the principal Act suggests that the responsibility of bringing together all the elected leaders to contribute on matters affecting counties would be the responsibility of the county Government itself. If you remember, when we discussed this Bill during the Second Reading, we all agreed that nine months down the line, no county Government has already established a framework for all the elected leaders in the counties. Therefore, the importance of this amendment is to establish this platform for elected leaders at the county level to discuss and contribute to the running of counties, and to exclude it from being the responsibility of the county Government. We as a House are providing the platform in this amendment through the County Development Board. So, we do not want a situation whereby we have established the County Development Board and tomorrow, a county Government out there decides to create another parallel platform for all the other elected leaders. So, we are amending this to provide that the County Government Development Board as proposed in this amendment will be the only platform for all the elected leaders at the county level to the exclusion of any other platform that the county Government may mischievously decide to establish. That is the import of the new clause.

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Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that the Bill be amended by inserting the following new sections immediately after the proposed new section 91A

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move: That the Bill be amended by inserting the following new sections immediately after the proposed new section 91A Establishment of

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. With all due respect, we are through with the Second Reading. Here, we are at the Committee Stage and I stand corrected, because we finished the First Reading and the Second Reading and what we are now doing is moving amendments to the Bill already accepted at the Second Reading which we completed.

Basically this is a new clause which was not inserted during the Second Reading and that is why we have to go to through it in the Second Reading. It was not there during the Second Reading. It came later after the Second Reading.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, maybe if the Senator had waited a little bit for me to explain, we would be on the same page. You remember that the initial amendment did not contain or did not have provisions for the establishment of the sub-county development Boards and the Ward Development Boards, but from the discussions during the Second Reading of the Bill and within our Committee, we agreed that we cascade the same County Development Board at the county level down to the sub-county level so that we have the Sub-county Development Board and the Ward Development Board. This is exactly the same rationale that we have for the County Development Board. We need discussions and a platform for elected leaders at the sub-county level. At the sub-county level, we have a Member of the National Assembly and all the other elected leaders. We propose that we establish the Sub-county Development Boards that will be chaired by the Member of the National Assembly elected in that constituency. The Sub-county administrator will be the Secretary and the membership of the Sub-county Development Board will include the elected Members of the County Assembly within that particular sub-county. We also have the Deputy County Commissioner as an ex-officio member, we have the Assistant Commissioners as ex-officio members. We also have the ward and the town administrators within the sub-county and others. Most critical is that we are also proposing that elected and nominated Senators within the counties that they come from and also the Governor and the women representative will be ex- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I agree entirely with what Sen. Sang has said and have really no useful words to add, in justification for these new clauses. However, under the proposed Clause 91 (c), we appear to have forgotten that a Member of Parliament should be an

member of the ward. So, I propose that we amend it using the same words which are in 91 B (a), to read:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Sen. Wako, that is a good proposal, but we are in the Second Reading. We will deal with that at the Committee Stage.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, under New Clause 4, Section 91B (2), there is a repetition. It reads:- “The Chair of the Board in appointing the members of the board under paragraphs (g), (h), (i) and (j) of sub-section (1), the chairperson of the board shall ensure that the appointments reflect the various diversities among the people in the sub-county.” Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I propose that we delete the words “the Chair of the Board” so that it reads:- “In appointing the members of the board under paragraphs (g), (h), (i) and (j) of sub-section (1), the chairperson of the board shall ensure that the appointments reflect the various diversities among the people in the sub-county.”

Okay. That will also be dealt with at the Committee stage.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, in appreciating the drafters of this Bill, I beg to be corrected if my memory serves me wrong. I did not see in the main Bill, whether there was an indication of how many times the boards can meet and what the number of mandatory boards is. If the convener refuses to call any board meeting at all, what happens?

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I rise to oppose the insertion of New Clause 4. If you look at the objects of this Bill, it is to provide a forum for consultation between the national Government and the county governments at the county level. My concern is that if we cascade these functions over a forum to the ward and the constituency, in my view, we are going to lose the strategic direction that we want to set for the county. I thought that the objective of having this forum was to create a direction for this county. Now, if you bring this to the constituency level, with all the conflict of interests over the projects that will be identified and proposals about funding at the ward level and they confirm and completely make it as their position and bring it to the county, really at the county level, we will get into a situation where all we will be doing is rubberstamping positions that are taken at county level and constituency level. Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, whilst I am not opposed, the Constitution does provide for an input through public participation at those levels. But I really think that, that concept of having a board at the county level to give that direction will be lost by creating a huge board in the constituency. So, in my view, really, it does not add value to the process.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, with all due respect, allow me to disagree with my very able colleague, Sen. Billow Kerrow. Our Constitution is based on the theory of participation. Indeed, it even provides for further structures of devolution, even below the ward level. Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, it is very important that the leaders at the ward level meet to discuss development within the ward. This is because they have elected a Member of the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I rise to support the inclusion of this New Clause. Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, first of all, I would wish to disagree with Sen. Billow Kerrow. There is need to have this forum at the constituency and ward level. However, where it says that the meetings will take place quarterly in the county, I think that needs to be amended so that the meetings at the ward level do not happen quarterly. This is because I think we shall be overdoing things. If you collect the views at the ward level maybe once every year or two years and at the constituency level, once a year, then it will make sense, otherwise, there will be too many meetings in the wards, constituencies and counties. That is my substantive contribution to this. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I support all that has been said by Sen. Murungi, in support of this particular amendment. But I just want to add the legalistic perspective to this. This is because Sen. Billow Kerrow quoted only one function of the Board, which is to facilitate consultations between the national Government and county governments. Because of that, he said that boards are not necessary. But I want to explain to you legally. For example, if you come to the ward development board, the proposed Section 91 C (3) reads: “The functions of the ward development boards and the procedures applicable to the conduct of their meetings and affairs shall be the same as that of the County Development Boards established under Section 91A, with necessary modifications.” When it reads “with necessary modifications,” it means that those other functions are the ones which will really be discussed at that level.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I also stand to support Sen. Kiraitu. I believe that for any county board to hold a meeting, it must have recommendations from the sub- county boards. So, the sub-county again cannot hold meetings when the wards have not made recommendations. This is because the beneficiaries of these meetings actually are wananchi on the ground. In order for the boards to come up with sufficient conclusions of their meetings, the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Finally, Sen. Godana and then the Acting Senate Minority Leader.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. I stand to support the two clauses; Clauses 3 and 4, which are additional clauses, because for a long time, we have not actually been capturing what our people want in terms of development. The closer we get to them, the better, and this is one way of doing it. Mine is also just to stress that for the smooth working of these Boards, at least, the ward and the sub-county could meet only once in a year and present their proposals so that we can do the actual supervision at the county level, and that is where we need to meet at least quarterly. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir.

Finally, the Acting Senate Minority Leader.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. I also stand to support the amendments, and I would want to make one thing clear. One is the fact that when people plan at ward level, they will identify their priorities, as rightly said by many other speakers before me. The fact that we may not face what we have faced in the past in terms of identifying the actual projects – you know there are many white elephant projects that existed because people at the lower levels were not involved – thus bringing in the element of participation. The fear that a few people are now trying to express, in terms of wards or representatives of those communities, forming rigid positions; the fact that their priorities may not be considered at the highest level, does not arise because I think the final position lies with the county boards, who will harmonize those projects and even remove some of them, because you are not obliged to accommodate all their proposals. So, the fear that people will take rigid positions from the lower levels may not occur. This is what I think. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir.

Sen. G.G. Kariuki, that was the last contribution, in the interest of time. But since you are Number One, we will give you an opportunity to contribute.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I am just a Senator, just like any other Senator here. What I am trying to reason, by standing here, was to support this amendment because it is very good for all the politicians, especially the Chair of that Board. He will be more comfortable that what he is saying is also said at the grassroots level, because if you want positive politics, we need to have a reason of talking to the very low people in the villages. But if you deny them the opportunity to have these committees, you will always be confronted with a lot of requests. They will always disturb you and say that you did not give us the opportunity to do what we want. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you very much. I want to put the Question; that the New Clauses 3 and 4 be read a second time. Ring the Division Bell. So, basically, we will vote for the 3rd and the 4th amendments together and then we will go to the Committee Stage to complete.

Let us have the same tellers so that we move very fast. Sen. Halima is not there; can anyone else volunteer to be the teller, somebody like Sen. Orengo, for example?

Okay, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki has volunteered. That is called servant leadership. Okay, lock the doors. Hon. Senators, I now put the Question; that clauses 3 and 4 be read a Second Time. Before the names are called, I want to remind you that when you vote, you say “I vote yes or no to Clause 3; I vote yes to Clause 4.” We have to be specific in both clauses.

Sen. Njoroge

Nil

Sen. Ong’era

Hon. Senators, the results are in for New clause 3. They are as follows:-

Sen. Njoroge

Sen. Ong’era

Hon. Senators, the results are in for New clause 4. They are as follows:-

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I propose that New Clause 4 be part of the Bill but with the following amendments. In 91 (b) (2), there are some repetitions there that were pointed out by Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo and, the therefore, the words “the chair of the Board” should be deleted so that the sentence begins, “in the appointment of the members of the Board---“. Further, under (o) that any departmental head of the national and county governments who may attend the Ward Development Board. I am proposing the substitution of the word “county” with the words “Ward Development Board” and further as pointed out by the Chairman of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, is that the elected and the nominated Members of the National Assembly and the Nominated Senators shall be ex-officio Members of the Ward Development Board as provided. It is technically the same explanation that we gave at the Second Reading of this Bill.

Hon. Senators, I put the Question that the New Clause 4 be part of the Bill as amended by the Mover.

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Mr. Temporary Chairman, put the Question on all of them, including the title and the recital.

Hon. Senators, we will go to Division on the two clauses. We are unable to go to the title and recital because we have not agreed to the new clauses. So, we will go into Division. I am sorry, it is a technicality in the Standing Orders. Cognizant of the fact that all the Senators are present, we will ring the Division Bell.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. The Title will not change since there is no amendment to it. So, we could vote for all of them at one go.

Sen. Keter is right. The provided amendments do not change the title and neither will they change Clause 1. So, we can do the two clauses, together with the title and Clause 1 in one division.

Hon. Senators, since there are no proposed amendments to the Title and to Clause 1, we are going to have one division for all of them. So, when you vote, you will be voting for all of them; you say I vote “aye” to all of them, I vote “Nay” to all of them or you abstain. Are we clear?

Yes. The Temporary Chairman (Sen. Murkomen): Therefore, I put the Question that New Clause 3, New Clause 4, Title and Clause 1 be part of the Bill. Ring the Division Bell

Sen. Njoroge

Sen. Keter

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division on all the clauses are in and they are as follows:-

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that the Committee doth report to the House its consideration of The County Governments (Amendment) (No.2) Bill (Senate Bill No. 4 of 2013) and its approval thereof with amendments.

Hon. Senators, I decline to put the Question at this point until we finish the business on the Order No.11 (b). The doors can now be opened.

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Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, on behalf of my Chair, Sen. Wako, who is taking responsibility on behalf of the effervescent Sen. Boni Khalwale, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 3 of the Bill be amended- (a) in the proposed new section 2AA(1) by deleting paragraphs (a) to (g) and substituting therefore the following new paragraphs- (a) the President; (b) the Deputy President; (c) a Speaker of a House of Parliament; and (d) the Chief Justice. (b) by deleting the proposed new sub-section 2AA(2); (c) in the proposed new section 2AC by deleting paragraphs (a) to (k) and substituting therefor the following new paragraphs- (a) the President; (b) the Deputy President; (c) a Speaker of a House of Parliament; (d) the Chief Justice; (e) a Senator; (f) a Governor; (g) a Member of the National Assembly; (h) a Cabinet Secretary; (i) the Attorney-General; (j) the Auditor-General; (k) a Speaker of a County Assembly; and (l) a Member of a County Assembly Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the amendments on Clause 3 seek to change the order as it appears in the Bill, so that the Speaker of a House of Parliament appears before the Chief Justice. The new order will read: The President, the Deputy President, the Speaker of a House of parliament, the Chief Justice---. The amendment also deletes the Attorney-General and the Governor, and in effect also amends sub-section 2AA to remove the Clause in so far as the Governor was proposed to fly the flag on his official motor vehicle within the boundaries of the county. Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, part “c” similarly proposes to amend the order, so that the Speaker of a House of Parliament comes before the Chief Justice in so far as protocol is concerned and the Senator appears before the Cabinet Secretary and the Attorney-General. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I think it is important that we have this pecking order established in law. This is a very important amendment na tuiunge mkono, so that when we go to functions, we know who is who and who sits where. We should not have Members of Parliament struggling to find where to sit.

Thank you

Put the Question!

I decline to put the Question. Sen. Janet Ong’era.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I do not know whether I can propose an amendment.

No.

Okay, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I just want to make an observation. I wanted to propose that the Chief Justice should come down; going by the order that Sen. Orengo just read to us from the Constitution. Because I do not think it will be proper, having read the Constitution, that the elected representatives who represent the interest of the sovereign people of Kenya---

Order! What is it, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, the Senate Majority Leader.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, in light of the sentiments of my sister, Sen. Janet Ong’era, I just wanted to say that for the Chief Justice – and I wanted to support fully my senior, Sen. James Orengo, on the question of the exercise of sovereign will – but the Chief Justice heads an institution which is one of the three arms of Government. So, whether they are elected or not, it is overcome by that fact; that he is the head of one of the three arms of Government.

Sen. Sang?

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, further to the point raised by our Senate Majority Leader, it is important to also note that we have three arms of Government; the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

The fourth!

Yes; third in terms of--- Yes, I know the Deputy President sits in there; but the President and the Deputy President head the Executive, then you have the Speakers of both Houses coming in second; then you have the Chief Justice. I think it sits well in that line.

Lastly Sen. Orengo.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the only reason I will support where you have placed the Chief Justice is that, if he is a good Chief Justice; the less he is seen in the public, the better.

But he can appear on exceptional national days; but otherwise, the Chief Justice is better out of the way.

No; let me tell you; there have been instances where if the Chief Justice gets too much involved in the daily affairs of politics or even appearances, it can also get into the head of the Chief Justice, and he begins to imagine that sitting next to him is valuable in certain circumstances. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir.

Put the Question!

Okay. Hon. Senators, I decline to put the Question until the final Clause.

There is no amendment to Clause 4. So, I propose that Clause 4 be part of the Bill.

Basically, Clause 4 is the one that provides the Schedule.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I propose the amendment is as it appears in the Schedule of the Order Paper; by inserting the new row after the row immediately after “a member of the National Assembly.” We have proposed to include---

Order! Order, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.! You are moving just Clause 4; then I will call you for the Schedule. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

I beg to move:-

Acting Senate Minority Leader. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I support the amendment mainly because it will help us really reduce the whole conflict we have experienced in the past; and it makes a clear distinction between the MPs and the MCAs elected at ward level. I think it will create some order in terms of ensuring that we have harmony between the various levels of representation. Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir.

Sen. Billow Kerrow.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I rise to oppose this amendment. The County Assembly Woman and the County Assembly Man are people who were elected. They are elected with a mandate far much greater than what the local authority leaders used to have. They, in fact, represent an assembly – not a national one, but the county one – and in that regard, they are respectable honorable people in the sense that they do exactly the same functions that the other honorable Members in the National Assembly do; they approve budgets, they consider plans and policies of the government. In my view, it would be in order to retain the title “honorable assembly man” and “honorable assembly woman” to these people because of the roles that they do in terms of oversight, representation and legislation, approving budgets and drawing up plans. In my view, I want to oppose the amendment and retain the title “honorable assembly man” and “honorable assembly woman.”

Sen. Kiraitu.

I want to thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. I am speaking here now with the authority of the Chairman of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. This amendment came from Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, and we, as the Committee, looked at it and we had our own feelings, but we let it go. But due to the feelings that have been expressed in the House, especially by Sen. Billow Kerrow, I think they are persuasive enough and, as Committee, we are really not taking a very hard position on this. We are being guided by the wisdom of the House and I think it is important that the ward representatives, who are playing a very important role, feel recognized since we know that they are different from the former councilors. So, I think they can retain the title “honourable” if the House feels that is important.

Chairman, Sen. Musila.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I want to support the views expressed by Sen. Billow Kerrow. These are people who are elected with a mandate to legislate. You see, even if you call him “assembly woman,” would those people down there be able to pronounce the title “assembly woman” or “assembly man?” Again, why deny these guys a title which I think they deserve? I, therefore, oppose the amendment.

Hon. Senators, there is a compromise emerging, and therefore, I will give a chance to the Senate Majority Leader to express that compromise. Unless someone has a contrary opinion, then we will give you a chance to air it.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. In support of Sen. Billow Kerrow and Sen. Musila, the term “honorable” is associated with holding elected office. It would be a great injustice if you say Members of the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, this is a fortunate House because it is a House of good ideas and not just tyranny of numbers. In view of the sentiments expressed, I wish to withdraw paragraph (b)(i) and (ii) of the proposed amendment. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir.

Sen. (Eng.) Karue and then Sen. Wamatangi.

What is your point of order, Sen. Orengo?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. Once a matter has been proposed by the Chair, you cannot withdraw it. It would be very bad practice that you bring a matter and you wait until it is proposed, and there may be some contrary views. We cannot assume that this decision is unanimous. I think the best thing to do, once a matter has been proposed, is to show whether we agree with it or not. This is not a Baraza; this is an honorable House. Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the reason why you go out of your way to say “I propose the Question;” is because it now becomes the Business of the House to make a decision on it. If the person moving it wanted to withdraw it, he should withdraw it before he has moved it. So, as a matter of procedure, I am not taking any side as yet; but I think it would be wrong for a matter to be withdrawn after it has been proposed.

Let us first dispose of the question by Sen. Orengo. You are an expert in the Standing Orders, and Standing Order No.56 provides that after the Question has been proposed on a Motion, the Motion shall be deemed to be in possession of the Senate and as such, a Motion shall not be withdrawn without the leave of the Senate. So, I believe by interpretation, leave of the Senate means there being no objection by any Senator either with the sympathy of the Speaker or the support of at least two other Senators. Already there is the sympathy of the Speaker and I hope there is no objection to withdrawal. The reason why the Chair was sympathetic to that position was not because there was absence of opposition, but basically, considering the voting procedure and the general consensus that has been built in the House, the Chair thought that the request by the Mover to withdraw was The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

There is nobody who is against it.

So, there being no objection, the withdrawal is upheld.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the amendments were not brought in time for us to digest, but I am happy we have been able to save time. My comment is on Schedule on No.4 and No.5 where the first one is His Excellency, second His Excellency and number three is the Right Honourable Speaker, but when it comes to the Senator, we are only referring to them as Senator. We also want to be referred to as Honourable Senators.

No! We changed that!

When? Yes, but it should be official!

Order! Sen. Karue, do not engage in a shouting match. Address the Chair.

My apologies, Mr. Temporary Chairman; this is my proposal. I would have thought, that we be addressed as Honourable Senators and also the Governor should have a title like Honourable Governor. That is my proposal. I know they prefer to be known as Your Excellency. So, instead of referring to them as Your Excellency, Governor, it should be Honourable Governor.

On a point of order!

Order! Before you say anything, all of you know that Sen. (Eng.) Karue has not been around. He was also not there when the whole debate took place. Sen. (Eng.) Karue, the reason there is that general consensus is because there was an extensive debate and consensus building. Some Senators had your proposal initially but it changed.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I then move with the House.

That is right.

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Hon. Senators, we are going to have one Division Bell for all of these clauses; Clauses 3, Clause 4, Schedule, Clause 2, Title and Clause 1. So, if you support all of them, say I vote yes to all of them, I vote yes except for a particular clause. So, I put the question that Clause 3, Clause 4, Schedule, Clause 2, Title and Clause 1 be part of the Bill. Ring the Division Bell and close the doors. After this Bill, you will no longer be “hon.” Senators. So, for avoidance of doubt, I will put the question again and if you support, you say “I vote yes for all”.

Sen. Njoroge

Sen. Elachi

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division on all the Clauses are as follows:-

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior!

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that the Committee doth report to the House its consideration of The National Flag, Emblems and Names (Amendment) Bill, Senate Bills No.2 of 2013 and its approval thereof with amendments.

seconded

Hon. Senators, I wish to put the Question; that the Committee doth report to the House its consideration of The County Governments (Amendment) (No.2) Bill, Senate Bills No.4 of 2013 and The National Flag, Emblems and Names (Amendment) Bill, Senate Bills No.2 of 2013 and their approval thereof with amendments. We will now go for Division on the two Bills and the same Division Bell applies to both Bills. Ring the Division Bell for two minutes. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Sen. Njoroge

Sen. Keter The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division on both Bills are as follows:-

Hon. Senators, we have two more Divisions which will hopefully run concurrently.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that a Committee of the Whole has considered The County Governments (Amendment) (No.1) Bill (Senate Bills No.4 of 2013), and approved the same with amendments. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Report.

seconded.

Hon. Senators, before I propose the Question, I would like to have the two Bills considered together as we agreed earlier. So, we will listen to the next Mover, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. THE NATIONAL FLAG, EMBLEMS AND NAMES (AMENDMENT) BILL

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that a Committee of the Whole has considered The National Flag, Emblems and Names (Amendment) Bill, Senate Bills No.2 of 2013 and approved the same with amendments. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Report.

seconded. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Hon. Senators, the two acting as chairpersons have already reported but we need a third person to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the two Reports separately.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Report.

seconded. ( Question proposed)

Hon. Senators, I decline to put the Question so that we can put together in the two Reports. Okay. Can we have the next report? THE NATIONAL FLAG, EMBLEMS AND NAMES (AMENDMENT) BILL

Hon. Senators, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Report

seconded.

Hon. Senators as I explained, we will do the Division for both Bills. As I had already explained to you, after this one we will have the final vote. After this we will remain with one. Let the Division Bell be rung. After this Vote, we will have the final vote.

Close the doors, please. It is now Division.

Sen. Njoroge

Sen. Elachi

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division on the Reports of the two Bills are as follows:-

Hon. Senators, we will have the last vote. Sen. Wako.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the County Governments (Amendment) Bill be now read the Third Time.

seconded.

Hon. Senators, we agreed that we will put the Question for both.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the National Flag, Emblems and Names (Amendment) Bill, 2013, be now read the Third Time. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

seconded.

Hon. Senators, we are now going into Division. Let the Division Bell be rung.

Order! Lock the doors and the Tellers can approach the podium.

Sen. Wamatangi

Sen. Elachi

Finally, hon. Senators, the results of the vote on the County Government (Amendment) Bill No.2, Senate Bill No.4 of 2013; and The National Flag, Emblems and Names (Amendment) Bill, Senate Bill No.2 of 2013, are as follows.

Nil Hon. Senators, the Ayes have it.

Next Order!

Hon. Senators, I have received a request that the Motion by Sen. G.G. Kariuki be deferred. We had already voted on the adjournment of debate on this Motion. It will be in the Order Paper next week. I have also received a request from Sen. (Prof.) John Lonyangapuo that the Motion appearing as Order No.13 should also be postponed to next week.

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Order, hon. Senators! There being no other Business, the Senate stands adjourned until Tuesday, 3rd December, 2013, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.10 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate