Order, hon. Senators. We need to determine if we have a quorum.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have 18 Senators in the House. We have a quorum.

Then let us proceed with business.

Order, hon. Senators. I have a Communication to make. I wish to report to the Senate that pursuant to Standing Order No.40 (3) and (4) the Clerk has delivered to me the following Message from the National Assembly regarding the approval by the Assembly of members for appointment to the Parliamentary Service Commission. That the National Assembly by a resolution passed on Wednesday, 26th February, 2014 and pursuant to the provisions of Article 127(1) (d) of the Constitution approves for appointment Hon. Dr. Abdullahi Ibrahim Ali and Mrs. Lonah Mumelo to be members of the Parliamentary Service Commission. This message was conveyed via letter ref. No.KNA2/4/302 dated 26th February, 2014. Standing Order No.40 (6) provides that:- “When the Speaker reports a message from the National Assembly under paragraph (4) or (5), the message shall be deemed to have been laid before the Senate and the Speaker may- (a) direct that the message be dealt with forthwith; The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate, today, Thursday, 27th February, 2014:- The Report of the Standing Committee on Energy, Roads and Transportation on the Familiarization Tour of Kenya Ports Authority (KPA), Kenya Petroleum Refineries Limited (KPRL), and Kenya Pipeline Company Limited (KPC), in Mombasa County between 5th to 8th August, 2013.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Standing Committee on Energy, Roads and Transportation on the Familiarization Tour of Kenya Ports Authority (KPA), Kenya Petroleum Refineries Limited (KPRL), and Kenya Pipeline Company Limited (KPC), in Mombasa County between 5th and 8th August, 2013 laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 27th February, 2014.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to give a Statement on the Auditor- General’s reports on the performance of county governments that arose from the proceedings of the Committee. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to congratulate the Senator for Mandera County and Chairman of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs for that Statement. I would also like to use this opportunity to point out that some of the issues that he has mentioned have immediate challenges. Maybe, as Committee, we should device, either through this House or through communications with the National Assembly, a way in which we can address the issue of budgeting. Unless the office of the Auditor-General is adequately funded especially by way of human resource, now that we have got 48 governments, we need proper auditing mechanisms around these 48 centres. Over and above that, it is important that we give sufficient funds to the institution of the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) because of the many recommendations will arise from the decisions of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs which will come from the reports of the Auditor-General. The Committee will recommend that the EACC takes over. We need to adequately fund that Commission. Mr. Speaker, Sir, finally, but not least, we also need to adequately fund the office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. Without that kind of funding the question of audit becomes a fairy tale. We have to make it practical and provide enough funds for Mr. Tobiko to recommend people to be sued and, the EACC to go to the bottom of everything and the Auditor-General to have quality reports by attracting proper professionals from our universities to take up jobs in audit. Thank you.

Sen. (Prof.) Lesan.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to request for a Statement from---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Could I respond to the clarifications that have been sought first?

Yes, Senator. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a request for a statement.

Let us have Sen. Billow first respond to the issues raised.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to clarify for the sake of the Senator for Kakamega County that, indeed, the budget for the independent constitutional offices that carry out this very useful oversight work like the Auditor-General, the EACC and so on is very limited. In fact, we have learnt this from our meetings. Yesterday we met with the Auditor-General and this morning we met with the EACC. In both cases, they have not been given any additional funding for the 47 new county governments. In fact, the Auditor-General’s budget last year was Kshs2 billion, the same amount he was getting when he was auditing the national government. In the case of the EACC, this morning they informed us that whereas last year before the county governments were in place, they got Kshs1.8 billion. The same was reduced in the last financial year after the 47 county governments came into being, to Kshs1.2 billion. So, the challenge is there for these institutions to be able to carry out their mandate effectively. Our committee has proposed to meet with the Budget Committee of the National Assembly to push for additional funding, so that these institutions can carry out their work effectively.

Hon. Members, I just want to emphasize the point made by the Chairman of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs on public comment on matters that are seized by the Committee. He is even making reference that even before the matters have actually been seized by the Committee or tabled in this House, there is a lot of public debate. Since Senators have an opportunity to interrogate those documents as you are required, it is only fair that you only comment after the Committee has concluded its work. I know that is a bit difficult, but I will ask Senators to try to really restrain themselves from commenting on this because the report is sent to Parliament for interrogation. It is not final. It is up to Parliament to make its own report after all the parties have been heard.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Murkomen?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with the Chairman of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs that we might need to restrain ourselves. When we visit our counties, there are issues that the locals want us to address. They just tell you: “Can you tell us this and that.” It is important for us to know the specificity of what the committee is seized of. Our only food and bread and discussion is devolution. Once we are gagged--- For example, we will be happy to know that nine counties are being interrogated by the Committee. Then we will avoid issues on those counties. We will not raise them as examples and then we will focus on others. The House is being bashed right, left and centre and the only way we can make our case to the public is to tell them that, for example, “the Auditor-General or the Controller of Budget reports says this and that.” Mr. Speaker, Sir, we hope your ruling will not gag us from the general principles of devolution and accountability because that is our bread and butter.

Any other intervention on this particular matter? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was looking at Article 229(8) of the Constitution that requires Parliament within three months after receiving an audit report, to debate and consider the report. I do not know whether this Committee has the capacity with respect to every report received, we can be able to debate and consider those reports because this is a constitutional timeline. If we go beyond it, we will not be acting within the four corners of the Constitution. The Chairman needs to consider whether he has the capacity to deal with these audit reports. As the Senator for Elgeyo-Marakwet is saying, any delay in dealing with this work can render the Senate completely unable to exercise its core function effectively. So, I would want to hear a reaction from the Chairman whether or not the Committee can be able to fulfill this constitutional requirement. I am aware that some of these audit reports were published and given to Parliament, including the one from Embu County more than one and a half months ago.

Chairman, you can respond to that.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the question raised, the traditional practice for the House is that a report has to be tabled on the Floor of the House. That is when it is properly before the House and Members can be seized of it and can debate it. That was not intended to gag Members. The idea is so that Members are actually speaking from a point of information and based on a report that is before the House because you can be challenged that, the report has not even gone to Parliament. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have discussed the question of Article 229(8), in the Committee and our decision is that at the level of the Senate, we will examine the accounts of a sample of the counties. We are working with the Auditor-General in terms of determining which particular counties have serious issues. Those are the ones that we intend to focus on. Definitely our report will be before the House very soon, so that we will be within that constitutional deadline. But it is within the mandate of each county assembly to actually discuss in detail. We were advised yesterday by the Auditor-General that no county assembly has so far tabled any of those reports in the House before their committees. This is why we raised this statement that they have a responsibility to raise it. We would request the Senators to urge their respective assemblies to have these reports placed before the respective committees of the House and deliberated upon.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, could I just have one more go at this?

Proceed.

The problem that I have is that we do not have a discussion. Article 229(8) says that once you receive the reports, you must debate and consider them. So, if you want to use your discretion to deny us a chance to look at all the reports that you received then I am afraid you do not have that power, it is our duty. Even the ones that are doing well, we want them before the House, not just the ones which are doing badly. If you use your discretion not to discuss a report in relation to a particular county, there is going to be a political issue that: “Why has the Senate decided not to consider a particular report?” You know in the Kenyan parlance, a lot of words can be said about that. I do not want to suggest that your discretion is as elastic as it appears.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

I have not finished the sentence. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

May be we should get another one from Sen. Murkomen.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in your ruling, I want you to rule the Chairman of the Committee completely out of order for denying the House the opportunity. I thought I did not hear him right when he said that “we will sample”. The Constitution does not say: “A sample of county reports.” It says all reports must be debated by the House. But then they must be enabled to be able to look at all those reports within the next one and a half months because in my reading, debating and considering is within the three months that the Constitution talks about. So, we must get the reports in good time. We are ready to debate here consistently from Monday to Friday or whatever time we extend, to ensure that we debate every county in so far as those reports are concerned. Mr. Speaker, Sir, give the right direction to the Chairman. Rule him out of order; give him directions that this House requires these reports on this issue.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Yes, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. Sen. Billow, please take note of the questions.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the same point, may I request you to recall your experience when you used to sit in the Public Accounts Committee in the other Parliament. You will recall that such reports used to come in respect of Government Ministries. At no time was the Committee restricted to only sample out. We were dealing with all the Ministries so that when your report comes to the House it is comprehensive and you speak to the performance of all Ministries. In this case, it is mandatory that you speak to all county governments including the county governments of Kakamega and Mandera.

Yes, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to support the sentiments that have been made by Sen. Orengo, Sen. Murkomen and Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale without repeating, over and above that, with regard to the specific issue of Members of this House not discussing matters that are before Committees. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I request that you take a bit of time and give us an articulate ruling in your characteristic style because unless a Member of this House is a Member of a certain Committee, the nature of our business does not allow the rest of us to know what is before a Committee. So, that is the first hindrance. Some Senators here are probably Members of one Committee. Others do not belong to any Committee like yours truly. That is the first limitation. The second limitation is with regard to the thin line between commenting on matters that are before this House or a Committee and commenting on the merits of a report. If you gag us too much, we will have nothing to say over the weekend. Like Sen. Murkomen said, the demand is very high. The moment you land in your county, the first question you encounter is what you are doing about this or that. So, the issue is that, we cannot discuss the merits. However, telling us that we cannot comment simply because a Committee is looking at a matter, that becomes a bit difficult. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to perhaps assist my Chairman in terms of the issues discussed and how we arrived at them. First, the idea was not to table a sample of the reports from the Auditor-General. The idea is to table all the reports. We said that it was possible for us to discuss specific counties on the basis of cross cutting issues that are apparent and clearly applicable to all the counties. I am following up on the question that was raised earlier regarding the capacity of Committees; it is very difficult to go through 47 huge volumes in the short time that Sen. Orengo has pointed out. However, it is possible and we requested the Auditor-General for a summary of everything that is there so that we see whether there are cross cutting issues that are applicable to all the counties. These are the highlights of the main issues that we need to look into. However, when it comes to discussions on the Floor of the House, we agreed that we should table all the reports and that any Member can raise any issue on any county. I think it is important for us to clarify that. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Constitution is also clear in terms of the relationship between our oversight ability and that of the county assemblies. The Constitution clearly envisages a situation where there are two levels of oversight, both at the Senate and at the county governments. We as the Senate are supposed to look at the wider picture. This includes the monies or revenues that are allocated by the national Government. At the county level, it is very clear that specifics of the works of various Ministries should also be over sighted by MCAs. I am not saying this to do your work. I am only assisting my colleague where I can.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I think my colleague in the Committee has already responded to the queries that have been raised. It is not the intention of the Committee to only table the few that we mentioned. All of them will be tabled. More importantly, in the Statement I read earlier, I said we will require all county governments to respond in writing to all the queries. That means that we will have all the queries addressed in terms of getting the Reports. However, in terms of in-depth examination, we will be focusing on some of the counties not based on our own subjective assessment but on the advice of the Auditor- General. Those are the ones we will be looking at in more detail. The reason we made this statement is to tell the general public that it is important for the county assemblies to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am sorry I have to raise this issue severally. You were invited by the Senate Majority Leader to make a ruling or to interpret between the oversight role of this House and the county assemblies. If you all remember, there was a paper prepared by the Chair of the same Committee which is very informative. I am reading Article 226(2) of the Constitution which says:- “The accounting officer of a national public entity is accountable to the National Assembly for its financial management and the accounting officer of a county public entity is accountable to the county assembly for its financial management.” In Article 226(2), my reading would be that in the principle of the Committee which is the core working point in the Senate and the good relations between this House and the county assemblies, we will continue allowing county assemblies to invite accounting officers who are Chief Officers or County Executive Officers, in most cases, in the counties for accountability to the various departments of the Ministry. However, I will take advantage of Article 96 of the Constitution which says that this House oversights the whole county. As such, that is why, in my understanding, we cannot invite a County Executive Member or a Chief Officer if we want to avoid conflict with the county assemblies. We will invite the county assemblies to invite them. However, in the overall oversight of the whole county, we will invite the Governor as the Chief Executive of the County to come and shed light on the rest of the issues. So, my reading of 226(2) is that. That does not, however, take away the power of the Senate to summon anyone under Article 125, if need be. In terms of maintaining the relationship between the county assemblies, the Senate and the National Assembly, it is important that we allow them, under Article 226 to continue ventilating the issues of the Chief Officer. This House should not reduce itself by taking up its power to invite the Chief Executive Officer and County Executive Officers. We will leave that to the domain of the county assemblies under Article 96 and invite the Chief Executive Officer as defined by the Constitution in Article 175 to shed light on the overall issues. I know that you will spend time to give a more detailed communication including looking at the paper that was done by the Chair of that Committee which is indicative of the relevant sections.

Hon. Senators, I allowed that matter to be canvassed by more people and some had a bite more than once, for the very good reason that this is important. So, I will take the suggestion of the Senate Majority Leader that I spend a bit of time looking into this matter. The communications will be two. One will be in terms of oversight between the Senate and the county assemblies on matters of the county and the other one is about commenting on Committee business. If we gag the House and everybody reads about our goodwill from the Press that will not be good. The issue is not to gag the House. Those issues are critically important. We do not want to stop Senators from talking to their people if they demand such kind of discussions. However, that can be arranged in a manner that you do not have to be reported. Some of these areas will need some consideration. Part of this is about shared The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Sessional Committee on Devolved Government concerning the daily use of a helicopter by County Executive Members of Bomet County while travelling within the county. Bomet is a very small county, geographically. This is a question which I am persistently asked by the citizens in Bomet. They need an answer from us regarding that. I direct this Statement to the Sessional Committee on Devolved Government.

Mr. Speaker, Sir that is a very unique question. I am wondering how to convene a committee meeting. Anyway, we will try and bring an answer in two weeks.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

I am willing to be informed by the Senate Majority Leader.

Before you get the information, I am sure that you are aware that the Committee is sessional. So, it is basically dead.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, perhaps your guidance and direction here might help the Senator for Bomet. It appears to me that this question should rightly actually be in the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs, because it involves the expenditure of money and not the process of devolution.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Further to what the Senator for Nyeri County has said, could the Senator for Bomet also, perhaps, rephrase the question? The reason is that I heard as if the Senator for Bomet County is questioning the mode of transport. The reason I am asking this is that we also do not want to look like a House that looks at small things like how people dress or how they travel, unless the question is that the use of this mode of transport is related to the expenditure in counties. That question has not really brought out that. It was very general. I am not really trying to deny the people of Bomet from asking questions about their leaders. Unless there is a clear linkage between the question and functions of the committees of this House and a bit of information that we can receive from the relevant Cabinet Secretary, then we should be careful so that we do not just ask even Cabinet Secretaries questions that they cannot answer.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. There was an initial ruling that you made and I am surprised that I have been masquerading as the Chair of an ongoing Sessional Committee having held a meeting this morning. I did not know that we are functus officio. But if that be the case, I agree with your ruling that it should go to the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs, but, again, really to the point that there must be a link between an individual public officer spending money and misappropriation of county finance, so that then we do not look like we are asking--- All of us use the same mode of transport once in a while, if we are lucky, but not on any public funds.

Sen. Murkomen, when you become that lucky, who resources your luck?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the record, my own resources.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. For the record, if you listened to the comments by the Senate Majority Leader on the question asked by Prof. Lesan, he said that it is trivial and small. I find it unacceptable. Is he in order?

I equally find it unacceptable that you are putting words into the mouth of the Senate Majority Leader. He never said that it was trivial. He just raised some concern, where that kind of question can have difficulty. I think that those are the kind of issues that ideally would be canvassed before the Committee, because it will need to make a report. So, to me, he was guiding even the Committee when it is interrogating that particular matter.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, you will recall that earlier on in the life of this Senate, you allowed a similar Statement to pass and it was actually responded to. I, therefore, see no reason the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs should not respond to Prof. Lesan’s question. You will recall that when a jet was used to take a State officer to West Africa, I raised this matter and you allowed it. An answer The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am worried about what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has just said; that if the helicopter used in Bomet was from private sources, then that is alright. It is very dangerous if public service and work is being done on the basis of facilities offered privately, which means that the agenda in that county probably is being driven by some undisclosed person. In fact, the opposite situation is even more dangerous. But I would agree with the Senate Majority Leader that the question should be crafted a little bit differently. I even know about the other case which Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is talking about. I think that the way it was crafted made it easy for an answer to be elicited from the concerned Committee. Even as we go round as Committees, if you go into somebody’s private vehicle or are given a present, even if it is a kilogramme of sugar, if you accept it, you will be committing a grievous offence.

Chairman!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is true that ultimately, whether there was misuse of expenditure in terms of hiring a helicopter in the county and so forth, it will come to the auditor. But there is a request for a special audit to be conducted with regard to misuse of money by hiring helicopters and several other things between the months of August and December last year in Bomet. That request was forwarded through the Clerk’s Office to our Committee and I think that we will be discussing it. It came also from the same Senator. I think that it would be repeating the same work, because he has already made a request. So, in my view, we will handle it through that arrangement.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to request for a Statement from the Chair of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs with regard to the status of the Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) in Nyandarua County. Mr. Speaker, Sir, as a consequence of the 2007/2008 post election violence, many IDPs---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Eng. Karue is asking for a Statement and I have seen it in the Order Paper. But now he is going beyond what is contained in the request. I am in that particular Committee and that is why I am taking an interest in this matter. So, if he feels that this request is not detailed enough, then he should come with a new request. Otherwise, I think what he should do is to take the request which is in the Order Paper, but I stand to be guided.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am at a loss.

Indeed, Eng. Muriuki, you are at a loss. Just resume your seat.

We need to dispose the matter of your neighbour, Prof. Lesan. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I had a request before we went for recess that is quite similar to Eng. Muriuki’s and I thought that we could put it together.

Order, Senator! You may resume your seat. Sen. Muriuki, you can see the impact of your loss. Sen. Munyes, you will wait for Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki to raise the matter and then you can raise your matter as well. For now we just wanted to dispose of Prof. Lesan’s matter. Since the Committee on Devolved Government is not there, and the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs is already seized of the audit request and also, generally the matter is equally applicable to them in terms of expenditure, I direct that Sen. (Prof.) Lesan bears with us so that the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs can include that as part of the issues that they are investigating. We will wait for the report of the Committee.

Much obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Kerrow, you will undertake to ensure that, that particular bit is covered; you should also take into account the contributions from the various Members. The Senators have raised quite a number of concerns which you will take on board. Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki! RESETTLEMENT OF IDPS IN NYANDARUA COUNTY

Mr. Speaker, Sir, now I can request for my Statement from the Chair of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations, with regard to the status of IDPs in Nyandarua County. Mr. Speaker, Sir, as a consequence of the 2007/2008 post election violence, many internally displaced persons, commonly referred to as IDPs took refuge in Nyandarua County from various trouble spots around the country. Many of the IDPs have been in various camps spread around the county waiting for help. Others were integrated into the community in one way or the other. For example, distant relatives or sympathetic well- wishers afforded the refugee family a corner of their shamba to pitch a tent. This category was simply referred to as integrated IDPs. The IDPs in camps have by and large been settled or assisted to settle by the Government. But the integrated IDPs appear to have been forgotten. They have been crying out to the Government to settle them like every other IDP, but to no avail. Mr. Speaker, Sir, they were greatly alarmed when the Government made an announcement recently to the effect that the IDP settlement programme had been completed and concluded. Could the Government, therefore, state:- (a) The number of integrated IDPs there were in Nyandarua County as per the Government records at the end of 2008. For the benefit of the Chair concerned, 2008 is when the Government did a census of the IDPs. (b) How many of those integrated IDPs have been settled to date? (c) The remainder who are yet to be settled or their cases addressed and what the Government intends to do about them. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Committee Chairperson.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, I want to thank my very loyal Member of the Committee, Sen. Orengo, for coming to the rescue of the Committee. Secondly, if my memory serves me well, when His Excellency the President and the Deputy President were closing the last IDP camp in Eldoret, they said that all IDPs had been settled. So, I do not know whether this Question serves any purpose because if I am going to be given the same answers. It will not serve a useful purpose. All the same, if the Senator insists, I am prepared to answer it on Thursday, next week.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You have heard the Chairperson of the Committee say that as far as the Deputy President is concerned, all IDPs have been settled. Yes, that is true, but the IDPs that Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki is speaking to are not only in Nyandarua, but across the country. Some of the IDPs were integrated by their families. Culturally, for example, our community found it difficult to allow their relatives to live along the roads and in camps. So, all the IDPs who came from Trans Nzoia in 2008 were actually integrated in their families in Vihiga, Kakamega and in Bungoma. The same thing happened for the IDPs of Siaya because of their culture. I am happy to note that even members of your community, Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki, have borrowed a leaf from us. So, it is important that the Chairperson gives us a national response to that issue, because actually the IDPs are still there.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I just wish to clarify to the Chairperson that what he has just said is the exact problem that the Government - and none other than the Deputy President announced publicly on the issue of the IDPs; that all the IDPs had been settled and the matter closed. One of the consequences of that is that on the 25th of January, 2014, the integrated IDPs called all of us in Nyandarua County – the leaders, the Government headed by the County Government – and they all came. There were over 5,000 people in that field who were addressed by the Senator, the Governor and the County Commissioner on behalf of the national Government. The County Commissioner even came with the numbers; that there are 36,000 IDPs who have not been touched by the Government. So, the alarm is too much. It is only fair that the Chairperson of the Committee takes up the matter. You can quote that the Senator for Nyandarua is saying that we have 36,000 unsettled integrated IDPs as per the Government records, not our records. What is the Government doing about it?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

(Hon. Ethuro)

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would also like to request that the Chairperson gives us some information about what the Government is thinking about IDPs that did existed before 2007. We have IDPs of 1992 and 1997. What is the Government thinking about them?

(Hon. Ethuro)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I think Sen. (Eng.) Karue is right, in that there are many IDPs who were displaced over time, not only in Nyandarua, but even The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The problem of IDPs is not over yet. For the Chairperson to say “we settled them,” yet in Turkana we have five camps---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

(Hon. Ethuro)

Let me finish!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I did not say that they have been settled. I said that a statement was issued to that effect. So, it is not me to settle these IDPs.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, then that statement is erroneous. We have not settled ours in Turkana; the five IDP camps have not been completed and, so, we cannot say we have settled them. So, could the Chairperson include that response in his answer?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This issue of IDPs is a very interesting one. We live in one nation and IDPs are those people who have been displaced through internal conflicts. There are conflicts which have been there all over this country. Everyone here knows that in Mandera County from 2011 to 2013, there were conflicts. Which IDPs are we talking about?

(Hon. Ethuro)

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we need guidance because we also represent---

(Hon. Ethuro)

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand on a point of order to tell the Chairperson that in January, 2008, I was one of those very new Members of Parliament (MPs) who visited the most affected areas---

(Hon. Ethuro)

Mr. Speaker, Sir, let us all agree that this is one issue that has been a big shame to this country. Kenyans are suffering; children---

(Hon. Ethuro)

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chairperson – with all due respect and I respect Chairpersons in this House – must bring the Statement here at least to tell this The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Hon. Ethuro)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

(Hon. Ethuro)

It is for clarity, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

(Hon. Ethuro)

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir---

(Hon. Ethuro)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it possible for the Chairperson of the Committee to bring to this House a list of the number of people we are talking about who are called IDPs in the whole country so that we stop discussing ambiguities in this House?

(Hon. Ethuro)

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise on a point of order to seek your guidance in relation to the Question, but in a broader perspective. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chairperson of the Committee under this hybrid system where the Chairperson of a Committee is an “oversighter” and a responder as Government is beginning to be a bit of a problem, in the sense that you have just heard the Chairperson of that Committee say what was said by the Government. Mr. Speaker, Sir, my question on this point is; what happens when a Chairperson gets a response that is unacceptable to the House, but it is the response that the Chairperson has got from the Government?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

(Hon. Ethuro)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I seek clarification from the Chairperson, with your indulgence. When the Chairperson of this Committee responds to this issue, he should not just limit himself to the IDPs in this country courtesy of the Post Election Violence (PEV) and the other ethnic clashes that we have had in this country, or any other conflict, but he should also look at the IDPs resulting from evictions by Government. In my county, we have IDPs courtesy of Government evictions from the forests, and I think some of these IDPs have not been resettled. So, it is important that if we are looking at IDPs, we should not just look at ethnic conflicts or any other conflicts in this country, but any other IDP or any other person in this country who has been The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

(Hon. Ethuro)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. When the issue of IDPs is addressed, it actually touches me a lot because we have been affected in so many ways. We have IDPs caused by the Government, we have natural IDPs because sometimes drought and some other issues may displace us, but, actually---

(Hon. Ethuro)

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue is that IDPs are always spoken about as if they are a group of special people, but they are all over Kenya. So, actually the issue of IDPs has to be addressed equally in all counties and it has to be addressed afresh.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have only one point of order.

(Hon. Ethuro)

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for your guidance to me and other Senators. As I said earlier, we will try to answer the Statement which was requested by Sen. (Eng.) Karue on Thursday and I take your advice. I want to assure the House that we, as a Committee, will endevour to go and find more information, after I have answered this one on Thursday because the issue of IDPs is so hot.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just wanted to seek your guidance in terms of looking at the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations and the issues that have been raised, you realize that the Government used the Ministry in charge of Devolution to deal with issues of IDPs. Will I be in order to request that while he looks at it from the internal security side, he should also look at the Ministry in charge of Devolution and what they have done so far?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I was rising on a point of order in regard to the guidance you have given the hon. Senator from Nyeri and I was looking at this particular Standing Order when a request of Statement is made. The Standing Order indicates that the request is made seeking a Statement from a Committee Chairperson, it is not a Statement from the executive. What I was wondering is that, is it in order for a Committee through the Chair to bring a Statement in which it will relay to the House the position given to the Committee from the executive if necessary and also make its own opinion on that Statement because when it comes to just being conveyors of information from the executive, it makes the Senate also lose its decorum and authority. Is it in order? I think this is important because if indeed it is a Statement from the Chair of a particular Committee, if the executive is not willing to give that Committee the appropriate information, the Committee can get other information. It is in order to also to say that the Government has failed to give its own side of the story and to suggest appropriate action to be taken. The Statement is really from the Committee and not necessarily from the executive. So, I stand guided by the Chair on that particular Standing Order because we have been operating on the basis that the Statement is a Statement from the executive. My reading of that Standing Order is that it is not necessarily so.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Just a very quick supplementary, I do not think it is satisfactory to this House when such Questions like the one raised today or substantive questions of these nature are brought before the House and the Chair, including myself, I am not saying because of him but I am saying going forward, just goes to a public officer or a Minister, I think it is better when the Committee The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

The final word from the Chair and we must dispose of this matter.

I will be very fast, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Although the suggestion is good but look at the practicality of the matter. We do not have officers of the Senate on the ground and it would be very cumbersome to summon everybody in the counties to come and give you evidence. It will bog us down and the Senators will not be able to represent the people. With those remarks, I beg for your guidance.

This is my final word. It is good and I accept the request by the Chairman to bring the Statement on Thursday. However, on the issue raised by Sen. Murkomen, which is that instead of the Committee just asking for a Statement, they summon the Cabinet Secretary involved because the Government has publicly issued a Statement publicly saying that the IDP issue is over, whereas the Senator for Nyandarua, I am saying it is not correct. What I was requesting the Chair to give a direction on is to follow up on Sen. Murkomen’s suggestion. Instead of just getting a Statement from the Government, the Committee should summon the person concerned, in this case, the Cabinet Secretary concerned. In this case, there was a question whether this is an issue of the devolved government or of internal security. As far as I know, the IDP issue is being handled by the internal security because they have the records. So, it is quite in order for the Chair of the Committee---. However, the substantive request is that you should summon the Cabinet Secretary so that the Questioner like me can also be present so that we can raise subsidiary issues and the Chairman can have a substantive answer or report to the House without just copying a report from the executive. Thank you.

I do not know why Sen. Orengo re-opened this although he says he stands guided. I thought he would go beyond being guided and appreciate the Chair for guiding because we had already determined this matter and disposed of it. We agreed with the Chairman of the Committee to bring the Statement; specifically the Statement requested by Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki, on Thursday. The Chairman has promised the House that they will also now investigate the other issues that Members have raised. I think that is the proper way of doing it. He has been given suggestions including calling the Cabinet Secretary, calling the Principal Secretary and also calling the Senators who represent these kind of counties. These options are available to the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise under Standing Order No.43(2) to issue a Statement regarding the business of the Senate for the week commencing 4th March, 2014. Hon. Senators, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.43 (2), this is to present the Senate business for the coming week as follows:- On Tuesday, 4th March, 2014, the Rules and Business Committee will meet at 12.00 p.m. in order to schedule business of the Senate for the week commencing 4th March, 2014. The Senate will continue with business that would not have been concluded in today’s Order Paper on Tuesday. On Wednesday morning, the Senate will continue with business not concluded on Tuesday, as well as debate the Report of the Standing Committee on Energy, Roads and Transportation on the familiarization tour of the Kenya Ports Authority (KPA), the Kenya Petroleum Refineries Limited (KPRL) and Kenya Pipeline Company Limited (KPC) in Mombasa County and embark on any other business scheduled by the Rules and Business Committee. On Wednesday afternoon, the Senate will continue with the business not concluded on Tuesday and Wednesday morning and consider any other business scheduled by the Rules and Business Committee including the following Bills which have been republished. 1. The County Governments (Amendment) Bill, 2013 2. The County Industrial Development Bill, 2013 3. The Wildlife Conservation and Management (Amendment) Bill, 2013 4. The Kenya Medical Supplies Authority (Amendment) Bill, 2013. 5. The Alcoholic Drinks (Amendment) Bill, 2013 and 6. The Community Land Bill, 2013. Finally, on Thursday, 6th March, 2014, the Senate will continue with the business not concluded on Wednesday afternoon and consider any other business scheduled by the Rules and Business Committee. I thank you and, hereby, lay this statement on the Table of the House.

If we do not have more statements, let us proceed to the next order. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Senators, before we proceed with Order No.8, I would like to remind the House about the guidance I gave on 5th December, 2013 with regard to the procedure that will apply in consideration of the Report by the Rules and Business Committee on the Review of the Standing Orders. As hon. Senators will recall, in the past, Reports on the review of the Standing Orders were considered in three phases. In the first phase, when the Order for the Motion was read, the Chairperson of the Committee moved the Motion: “That, Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair,” which was subsequently seconded and a question proposed to initiate debate on the policy and principles implied in the Report. At the end, the question was put; “That, Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair.” If this was agreed to, the House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole. In the second phase, the Report was considered in the Committee of Whole in a similar manner as the Committee Stage of a Bill except that the Speaker took the Chair as the Chairman of the Committee of the Whole since he was also the Chairman of the Rules and Business Committee. The Clerk read each of the proposed amendments to the Standing Orders, one after the other and each amendment was disposed of in that order like in the case of a Bill. When all the proposed amendments had been disposed of, the question of the Motion for the Adoption of the Report was put. In the third phase, the House resumed and the Speaker reported progress of the Report. The question was then put; “That, the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Report.” Hon. Senators, the new procedure that will apply to Order No.8 is now provided for under Standing Order No.247 which provides as follows: Upon tabling of a Report of the Rules and Business Committee under Standing Order No.244, 245 and 246, the procedure set out at Standing Order No.245(5) and (6) shall apply with the necessary modifications. Standing Order No.245 (5) provides: The Senate shall consider the proposed amendments to the Standing Orders as reported from the Rules and Business Committee on a Motion that the Report of the Rules and Business Committee be approved. You will note that the proposed amendments to the Standing Orders are contained in the Report of the Committee as an annex to the Report. Any proposal to amend the amendment proposals will, therefore, be an amendment to the Report and may be styled as an amendment to approve the Report subject to the following amendments. If you have an amendment, the amendment must have been approved by the Chair. I am only aware of two, so far, and if you have not brought your amendment, you may be time barred. Owing from these provisions, we will not have the Motion; “That, Mr. Speaker, do now leave the Chair.” We will not also be having the Committee of the Whole on Order No.8 since the Motion before us is for the approval of the Report of the Rules and Business Committee The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. With regard to your direction on the amendments, we have just received copies of the Report when the sitting started. Therefore, we could not submit amendments before because we did not have copies. I have some proposed amendments. Will you be kind enough to accept them now?

Sen. Billow Kerrow, the paper was laid on the Table yesterday afternoon and the Notice of the Motion was given yesterday afternoon. The Rules and Business Committee wanted maximum participation and to do a special sitting to ensure that most of the amendments which had been proposed last time were factored in the Report. Standing Order No.53(1) is very clear. It says: “The proposer of an amendment to a Motion shall, before moving it, hand the proposed amendment in writing, signed by the proposer to the Clerk, at least, two hours before the order is read,” We read the Order at 4.00 p.m., and you had up to 2.00 p.m. Really, under the circumstances, this is very clear.

Use your discretion under Standing Order No.1.

I can only use Standing Order No.1 when something is not provided for and I am still bound by Standing Order No.1 to continue operating along the established procedures and precedence.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Maybe I need to seek your guidance. Where it is provided, for instance, in the Public Finance Management Act (PFM) that a certain responsibility falls under a certain Committee of the House, specifically under the PFM Act; that is what I wanted to seek clarification on.

What is your question?

The Public Finance Management (PFMA) Act, section 8 says that the Senate Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs Committee will, among other things, look at the Reports under Part 4 which include the Report by the Controller of Budget. If you are dealing with the approval of the Division of Revenue, Budget and so on, it then follows that monitoring of that Budget and utilization is done by the same Committee. That is what I wanted to say. Legally, this will remain under that Committee. Section 8 talks about the functions of the Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs Committee of the House.

Hon. Senators, this is the second Session. Session one, I was a bit relaxed. I just wanted to give you the warning that we should strictly abide by the Standing Orders. What we have done this afternoon did not strictly conform to the Standing Orders. However, being the first week, I was giving time for memory which may have been lost during the recess so that it is regained. From next week, you will have no excuse but I will rule you out of order if the matter is not properly processed.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. While accepting and respecting the provisions of the Standing Orders on the time allocation and submissions of amendments, it is also known that this Report was tabled yesterday. However, no The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

The ruling is that when the Report is tabled, you have to make 250 copies or so. So, there will be copies which are obtained from Room 10 for us. We do not carry them to the Chamber. Once a Report of the Committee is tabled, sufficient copies are provided for in Room 10 which you can pick after tabling of the Report because that is the time that the Report is made public and available to the House. So, maybe we are waiting to receive it here and that could be the problem. I also note that there is a tendency to ambush the Chair on amendments. The practice of the House is that we should not engage in ambushes. Whatever issues you have should be canvassed with the Chair before you raise them. That is one thing that may get you in trouble with me. So, from next week, if you have not canvassed a matter, I will rule you out of order. You need to give the Chair notice on what you want to raise. Now, listening to Sen. Billow, he may be sounding reasonable but this may be an ambush and a surprise.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion. THAT, pursuant to Standing Order No.247, the Report of the Rules and Business Committee of the Review of the Standing Orders laid on Wednesday, 26th February, 2014, be approved. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a Report of the sub-committee of the Rules and Business Committee (RBC) which was formed on 23rd April, 2013 to review the Standing Orders of this House. The Members of the sub-committee are listed on page 2 of the Report and I do not intend to read those names. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Report has extensively been discussed and approved by the Rules and Business Committee which you, Mr. Speaker, are the Chair. I would like to take this opportunity to most sincerely thank you, Mr. Speaker, my co-Chair, Sen. Orengo and the other colleagues, both in the sub-committee and in the RBC who have worked tirelessly to make this Report possible. The Committee decided to review the Standing Orders and the powers granted the Senate by Article 124 of the Constitution and also Standing Order No.244 of our Standing Orders so as to improve the procedural efficiency of this House in discharging its constitutional mandate in Articles 94, 96 and other provisions of the Constitution. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I believe that the sub-committee has done a great job, which we are now bringing to this House for debate and possible approval. The Senate is a very important institution in enhancing our parliamentary democracy. We are the apex institution of devolution. The Senate has a critical role to play in consolidating both constitutionalism, rule of law, parliamentary democracy and development in this country. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Sen. Murkomen who is one of the leading Members in House has just crossed the Floor without even bowing to the Chair, as if he is going to the market. Is he in order to do that?

Order! Order! Sen. Murkomen, can you confirm or deny?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I deny. But I am willing to bow for avoidance of doubt.

Which confirms that you even doubt your own denial.

Proceed, Sen. Kiraitu!

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is also the reason we should take the procedures and traditions of the House seriously. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the oversight mandate of the Senate is very broad. This is because we have to be involved in oversighting the county planning processes. We have to undertake the oversight of the budgeting processes, from the beginning to the end. We have to oversight expenditure and project implementation in the counties. By oversighting the county governments, we are also talking about oversighting all these processes; both the county executive and county assemblies. So, we are not just doing a postmortem exercise. The oversight process begins from the beginning to the end of the budget circle. So, this is a very broad mandate that we, as Senators, must exercise. In so doing, I have no doubt that as Senators, we are going to attract many enemies and opponents, as when our very able Senator, Dr. Khalwale, and his Committee did during the Wambora case. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in addition to what we have done, we are proposing that we pass some specific legislation, for instance, an impeachment act, which clarifies the procedures that the Senate should follow at the legal level. It should clarify the role of the county assemblies and Senate, so that we insure the process from interference by other bodies like the courts. We also know that the Senate has many institutional and administrative challenges which are not being addressed by the Report that we have brought before you. For instance, our efficiency and effectiveness at the county level is seriously hampered by lack of resources. Our offices are in a sorry state, understaffed and under-resourced. You cannot equate a Senator to a Member of the County Assembly or a Member of the National Assembly who represents only one constituency. We feel that we need a split in the Parliamentary Service Commission, so that we have a Senate Service The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to second and also register my appreciation for the leadership of Sen. Kiraitu Murungi in piloting this work to conclusion and reporting to the Rules and Business Committee (RBC), chaired by you. I would also like to congratulate the Members of this sub-committee who worked tirelessly in order to make sure that we have these rules for consideration, and as we may know, that is contained in the Report. The Standing Orders, as they stand today, were approved by the National Assembly in the Tenth Parliament in exercise of powers which were granted to it by the Constitution of Kenya 2010 as part of the mechanisms of enabling a smooth transition from the old Order to the new Order. But as it is, the National Assembly was working from the perspective that they had no record other than the operations of the First Senate, whose functions were not quite the same as this particular Senate. They also tried to borrow from other experiences. But, Mr. Speaker, Sir, since we have sat, deliberated and debated on this in the Senate since March or thereabouts, it came to pass that there were areas within our Standing Orders that needed review, and where there were lacunas or where there were inconsistencies, this required a new look and, therefore, the preparation of this Report was crucial. I think it was crucial that it comes as early as possible so that if we, indeed, need to review these Standing Orders again, then we prefer the time when our term of office is about to expire. Mr. Speaker, Sir, my able co-Chair has really gone through the Report comprehensively and I do not want to undertake repetition in seconding this matter. But I just wanted to emphasize this; that Committees of the House of the Senate and the Standing Orders flow from Article 124(1) of the Constitution. So, when you sit in a Committee of the House, you are a creature of the Constitution; that body is critical because sometimes when we sit in these Committees, we assume that we are a creature of Standing Orders. But, actually, the enabling constitutional basis for the establishment of these committees is in the Constitution itself. So, when you sit as a Committee, you are exercising, to some respects, constitutional functions related to the core mandate of Parliament as spelt out in the Constitution. Therefore, I am just saying this in relation to the fact that sometimes when parliamentary committees summon entities, state organs or public officials, there will be assumptions that this is just a ‘small’ Committee created by the Senate. But these committees emanate from Article 124 of the Constitution and, therefore, in the manner in which they are provided for in the Standing Orders, it is to enable the Senate to perform its functions as spelt out or enumerated in the appropriate chapter in the Constitution. The second thing, as I said, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the Standing Orders. The Standing Orders also flow from the Constitution and, to that extent, they are at the level of any other legislation by Parliament. Mr. Speaker, Sir, you have just gone through the procedure for approving this Report and the amendments, and compared it to the manner in which we pass Bills here. For what it is worth, it is not for other reasons that it will have to go through a Committee The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute in support of this Motion. I want to make it very clear from the beginning that I am in total support of the excellent job of the Rules and Business Committee through a sub-committee that was co-chaired by two eminent lawyers of this country, the sons of this country who need no introduction; Sen. Kiraitu Murungi, Senator for Meru County and Sen. James Orengo, the Senator for Siaya County. The job done by this sub-committee is fantastic, the language used is simple, straight forward and clear. The proposals that are being made for amendment are quite clear and justifiable. Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to say a few things, I will not take a long time. I think as many of my colleagues as possible would want to contribute. The first one is to realize The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. I congratulate the Committee for giving us a comprehensive and well thought out Report. Allow me to pay tribute to Members of the Tenth Parliament of the Committee of the Rules and Procedure which you served and which I served. We were with Sen. Musila and many other Members who in their imagination came up with the Standing Orders that we have used so far. Looking at the few amendments that have been done on the document that we have been using, they deserve our gratitude and recognition for the work they did in harmonizing the Standing Orders in line with the new Constitution. The new amendments have increased the value of the current Standing Orders. This means that the new Standing Orders may not need a lot of amendments soon. I believe that is still open and it is an exercise that may be done only once in the lifetime of a Parliament if need arises. I am more pleased with the opening statements and remarks of Sen. Murungi on the observations of the importance of the independence of this House with regard to the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC). That is a well thought out issue and we should congratulate this Committee for having gone that far. The Standing Orders also recognize the position of the Speaker after being elected to immediately begin chairing. Our Standing Orders, as they are now, allow the Clerk to continue chairing the election of the Deputy Speaker. Now, the Speaker will immediately take control of the House after being sworn in. I am pleased with the amendment that gives gentlemen, the male gender of this House, an opportunity to carry a handbag to the House of course for the purpose of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir for giving me an opportunity to support this very well researched amendments or proposals and to congratulate the Committee. I am particularly happy because it is clearly evident that we all have faith in the work that has been put in and the new proposals. The direction that this Upper House is taking truly demonstrates our efficiency in carrying out our mandate of reaching the people. I support the proposals that have been put here especially with regard to Committees that have been split and the new ones that will be created. As Sen. (Dr.) Machage has said, I have been serving in the Health, Labour and Social Welfare Committee and its mandate was quite large. I believe that by doing this, we will ease the work. I am happy that these proposals will go a long way in showing the reality of what the Senate is doing in reaching out and fulfilling our mandate. I support the proposals.

Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir for allowing me to contribute in support of the work done by the Committee which has already presented its Report this afternoon for discussion and adoption. I am, personally, very happy that some of the issues covered here have answered my prayers. I have been praying that the Committee on Education, Information, Communication and Technology is split. It has taken almost one year for this prayer to be answered. As it is written in the Bible, God can answer a prayer in one day, after a month, after two years or it can even take forever. The prayers have been answered and we are happy about it. There are very many people who are happy with the developments that are covered by this Report. We have other Committees like the one on Agriculture, Land and Natural Resources, Energy, Roads and Infrastructure and the Committee on Health, Labour and Social Welfare. We are also happy to note that other Committees have been created to give credit to this House. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to support the Motion. I would not like to repeat the issues that have been discussed, other than to say that some degree of independence of the Senate will really assist because of the peculiar functions that we undertake in the counties. The facilities that are there currently are not adequate. As representatives of the counties and their governments, we need, for instance, adequately staffed offices, with qualified staff, including researchers and so forth; people who will be able to interact on equal terms with the county executives and represent the Senator when he or she is in Nairobi. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. Like my colleagues who have spoken before me, I also want to congratulate the Co-Chairs of the Committee, the Senator for Meru, Sen. Kiraitu Murungi and the Senator for Siaya, Sen. James Orengo. Mr. Speaker, Sir, since we were elected, we have been trying to find our footing, particularly in how we conduct our business as a Senate. I think that this is what inspired this particular process; to have a review of our Standing Orders. As many of the previous speakers have suggested, this is not something which we do every other day. But since we are doing it now, we must do it right. Mr. Speaker, Sir, for me, there is just one pertinent point. I want to laud the Committee for not only trying to manage committees in a sizeable manner by splitting some of the already existing Committees, but particularly the creation of the County Public Accounts and Investments Committees, which if you look at the mandate stipulated, are directly the mandates that every Kenyan has been asking us to perform as the Senate. I do laud the work that has been done by the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs, particularly with respect to accountability, but the Senate needed to assert itself and its authority, particularly based on constitutional functions of the issues that we were mandated to actually oversight. I think this will be an extremely important Committee of the Senate. It will assert the Senate’s authority with respect to the resources in the counties. I think that many of us in the last couple of weeks have been treated to very horrific media accounts of how monies at the county level have been squandered and massive allegations made against The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for this chance. Mine, first of all, is to commend the men and women of honor who sat to decide on this subject that we are debating now. The important thing here is the opportunity that you accorded this House and also the Committee to sit and decide over the matter which affects the running of this House. Mr. Speaker, Sir, what I know is that any institution which does not go by the rules or any institution which does not respect its rules, it will never deliver the way it is supposed to deliver the way it is expected to by the Standing Orders. What is more important as far as I am concerned, is that the amendments which have already been undertaken are not the last; that an individual Senator has a right to propose through the Chair to have an amendment for even the amendments that we are going to pass immediately after. There is no limit. I think that is a leeway that we should be proud of because there is no system which must go unabated. There is no system which should last forever without injecting new life into it. Mr. Speaker, Sir, when we opened this House, I am on record saying that the Standing Orders that we came and adopted or which guided this House for the last nine months or one year were not our Standing Orders because they were done – although constitutionally – by the National Assembly before the Senate came into being. It has come to be that we now can say that we have our own document which we believe in for the time being, and that is the Standing Orders of today. I think it is important for us to understand that the Standing Orders are the ones which have given life to the Committees that we are proposing to add on to the existing Committees. It is important for hon. Senators to accept the view that any successive Senate or Parliament, in my view, will The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, hon. Senators. I want to thank Sen. G. G. Kariuki for those good words and we will always learn. I want to give guidance. We have to be done by 6.30 p.m. There are two other Members with amendments so I will give a chance to each and we dispose of that amendment. We shall allow other Senators to contribute to the amendments. Therefore, I am still covering the amendments and also those who still want to contribute.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you for the chance and I also wish to congratulate you for putting together a strong team of Sen. Orengo, Sen. Kiraitu, Sen. (Dr.) Zani, Sen. Elachi, Sen. Keter and Sen. Ong’era who have made us proud. Like those who have spoken before me, I want to join them in supporting this particular Report but with an amendment. Mr. Speaker, Sir, my amendment which I propose to speak to in support of this Motion is in regard of, hon. Senators, if you go to page 10 of your Report, you will find there is an introduction of a new Standing Order No.41(a). This is to cater for the transmission of messages from the county governors. I propose that the Motion be amended by deleting the full-stop after the word “approve”---

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. I read a communication to approve the Report subject to the following amendments.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Report be approved, subject to the following amendment. THAT, the Motion be amended by deleting the full stop after the word “approved” and deleting the proposed new Standing Order No.41(b) and replacing it with the following---” Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I go through the details of what it is that I am amending, I want to announce to the House the import of this amendment. The import is that the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. Stick to the procedures. You either read the amendment or just say as in the Order Paper, then you can now explain.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Motion be amended by deleting the full-stop after the word “approved” and deleting the proposed new Standing Order 41B and replacing it with the following:-

Order. You have already circulated the amendment. I think you are done.

Thank you. I circulated the amendment in the interest of saving time and I now want to call upon my new found friend, Sen. Murkomen, Senator for Elgeyo-Marakwet, to now second my Motion.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think my new found friend’s amendment is timely, well thought out and therefore I stand here to second it for the simple reason that it will put meaning into what the Constitution calls that a Senator is a representative of the county. That link is very important because the message that has been going around for some time now is as though governors and senators are supposed to operate, distinct from each other. In fact, part of the problem that we are facing now is because from inception as soon as the elections were over, despite the fact that we campaigned with our governors jointly holding hands together, many of them thought that the relationship ended the day elections were over. Therefore, they forgot that the linkage between the Senate and the county government is very important. That linkage is also demonstrated by the manner in which we participate in Division of Revenue Bill and the Allocation of Revenue Bill. It is not supposed to be just an exercise in futility; allocation of revenue is meant for a Senator to transmit the message from his own governor to say “go to Nairobi and make a case for this amount of money for this particular project or go to Nairobi and argue that we need conditional grant for this particular project”. If a Senator can be sent for such important responsibility, a very key responsibility when it comes to management and running of the county, survival of the county, what about just any other message that is going to be passed to this House? I am not just talking about any message because even that message that is being considered under this amendment could be a message that is related to allocation of money. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

I can see that you have been carried away, including treading on very dangerous grounds.

Order, hon. Senators, I want to plead with you, looking at the time, that we close the amendments. We will deal with the issues as amended. So, I will now put the question. This is not a matter affecting counties. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to support the Motion and to propose an amendment. THAT, the Motion be amended by deleting the full stop after the word “approved” and inserting the following:- Subject to inserting an amendment to Standing Order 16 as follows:- (a) By deleting paragraph (1) and substituting it with the following- 16(1) There shall be a panel to be known as the Chairpersons Panel which shall comprise of three Senators to be known, respectively, as the First, Second and Third chairperson of Committees and who shall be entitled to exercise all the powers vested on the Chairperson of Committees. (b) In paragraph (2) by deleting the word two and substituting therefore with the word “three.” This is important. I urge my colleagues to support the amendment because there are at times when we do not get the two who are in the Chairpersons Panel because of the respective responsibilities within the Senate. We end up nominating one of the Senators to stand in for the Chairpersons or the Speakers’ Panel. The Senate has also increased its committees, meaning that there will be a lot of responsibilities. It is, therefore, important to amend paragraph 2 and include the number of Speakers who will be responsible. With those few remarks, I beg to move the amendments and request Sen.(Dr.) Machage to second.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the reasons given for that amendment are very true. Indeed, at one time, the Senator for Migori had to urgently be requested to accept to be nominated to Chair a sitting which was on the verge of collapsing. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to second.

Sen. Machage, unfortunately, you had already spoken. The amendment must be proposed for it to be before the House. So, the Mover and Seconder should not have spoken.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had not spoken to the Motion itself. I have only seconded and this is the second amendment. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the outset, I wish to just remind you that the Standing Orders were drafted in the Tenth Parliament and most of those who did it did not consider or foresee the amount of work that would be done by the Senate. Mr. Speaker, Sir, with the additional five Committees, first of all, I want to assure Members here that it will be possible to distribute positions, because some Members have been complaining about being pushed into a certain Committee and they want another. With the five additional Committees, it will be easy now to accommodate Members. Mr. Speaker, Sir, for those who have joined Parliament for the first time, you have realized now that it is not the number of Committees that matters, but the amount of work that you do. It is not just about pushing to be put in two or three committees. You have seen the amount of work that it takes. Many times, you will find that there is no quorum in most of the Committees since they sit at the same time. So, this time with all due respect, we tried to focus on two committees per Member, because everybody will be accommodated. By doing so, we will do our work effectively and deliver services to wananchi. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me also take this opportunity to support the Motion as amended. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also want to support the work of the Committee in changing the Standing Orders, particularly, the creation of the County Public Accounts and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Let us give Sen. Hargura a chance briefly.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would have liked to contribute to this Motion as amended. But, I just want to make one comment. I am happy to be in a country where the Constitution, national anthem and everything else starts with prayers, because that is the only way that we can recognize God so that He can assist us in whatever we are doing. But because of time, it is better if we conclude this matter and ask the Mover to reply, so that we can vote on it.

Did you have to do so, Sen. Hargura, because you have already contributed?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I had risen on a point of order, just exactly on what Sen. Hargura is saying. In view of the time, would I be in order to ask that the Mover be now called upon to reply? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

I want to thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, and all the Members of this House who have overwhelmingly supported this Motion. They have fully supported it as well as the amendments; they have even given more arguments to reinforce our own arguments regarding the amendments that we proposed. Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to especially thank the ‘bullfighter,’ Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, for bringing a very important amendment which reinforces the role of the Senator as the representative and the symbol of the county.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Senator is the most appropriate person to convey these messages from the Governors; and because that is our duty, we are the people who represent the counties. So, I fully support that amendment and I also thank the hon. Senators for supporting Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale’s amendment. Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me also to thank Sen. Sijeny for her amendment to increase the Members of the Chairman’s Panel to three. We also have been sympathizing with you as you sit for very long hours, and we think this will relieve you and also release you to do much more in terms of the administrative functions and even some reading, which you have to do for the purposes of serving this Senate better. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Senate Minority Whip, my friend, Sen. Muthama, has brought a very important point regarding Members of Committees moving from one Committee to another, merely registering technical appearances and not making any useful contributions to any of the Committees. I think as the Committees increase, we are called upon as Members to take the Committees seriously and do much more. But I will also urge the Office of the Clerk – because they are the ones who allocate rooms and they are the ones who should be scheduling the Committee meetings – to make sure that they do not create concurrent meetings of their Committees, especially where the Members are the same. I have been a victim – I am called to the Committee on Energy, Roads and Transportation at 10.00 o’clock on Fourth Floor; and then the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights meets on the Third Floor at 10.00 o’clock; then I am called from the Committee on Energy, Roads and Transportation to be told there is no quorum in the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. So, I am one of those people who have been running up and down the stairs. It is not that I do not want to work, but the way the Committee meetings have been scheduled makes it impossible for you to concentrate on any particular Committee. So, I think we need to organize our work much better. Mr. Speaker, Sir, having said that, I really want to thank the hon. Senators; we think that we are now going to have a better legal and procedural framework which will make the Senate more efficient than it has been before. With those few remarks, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, I, therefore, wish to put the question after determining that this is not a matter affecting counties. So, each and every Senator has a vote.

THAT, pursuant to Standing Order No.247, the Report of the Rules and Business Committee on the review of the Standing Orders laid on the Table of the Senate on Wednesday, 26th February, 2014 be approved subject to the following amendments:-

THAT, the Motion be amended by deleting the full stop after the word “approved” and deleting the proposed new Standing Order 41B and replacing it with the following:-

Next Order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I notice that I only have two minutes but all the same I will kick off the Motion, then we deal with it next week, with your permission. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, aware that the Bill of Rights in the Constitution is an integral part of Kenya’s democratic state and its framework for social, economic and cultural policies whose main objective is recognition and protection of human rights to among other things preserve the dignity of individuals and to promote social justice; recognizing that many Kenyans suffered from human rights abuses perpetrated by government agencies, especially between 1970s and 1980s including detention without trial and against those suspected of complicity in the coup attempt of August 1982; noting with concern that the victims of these abuses were treated inhumanely leading to painful deaths while others were dismissed from employment exposing them and all their families to undignified social, economic and psychological conditions; further noting that the High Court The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order. Your time is up. You will proceed next time the Motion comes up.

Order, hon. Senators. It is time for interruption of business. Therefore, the House stands adjourned until next Tuesday, 4th March, 2014 at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.