Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, aware that Article 43(1)(f) of the Constitution of Kenya states that every person has a right to education; recognizing that Vision 2030 underscores the critical role of education in Kenya’s social-economic development; appreciating that pursuant to Chapter 223 of the Laws of Kenya, the Government established the Board of Adult Education to coordinate adult education; concerned, however, that implementation of adult education programmes is hampered by absence of appropriate policies including policies on recruitment, training, deployment, discipline and termination of services; the Senate calls upon the National Government to take immediate measures to develop clear policy guidelines for adult education, staff recruitment, training, deployment and discipline in order to promote adult education. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this notice is directed to the Ministry of Education, Science and Technology. STRENGTHENING KENYA-UN RELATIONS IN PEACE KEEPING MISSIONS

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Education relating to the national Government policy on public schools fee structure. I am trying to scout whether the Chairperson is here.

Which Committee?

Committee on Education.

But you are a Member.

Yes, I am a Member.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, please! Read your request.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like the Chairperson to state:- (a) Whether he is aware that guidelines provided by the Government on how much fees public schools should charge are not followed to the letter. (b) What the Government is doing to ensure the guidelines are adhered to in order to make education more accessible to all students countrywide.

He is a Member of the Committee.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): But he cannot take it for himself.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I know the various committees of the Senate are yet to be constituted, but we will take up the responsibility and ensure that after they are up and running, that we give an answer to hon. Senator’s request. However, I will tell the Senate Majority Leader to take up this matter and be responsible in terms of answering this statement in the next two weeks.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I expect Sen. Karaba to push for that statement in his own committee. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Education. Since there have been reports of individuals being caught with examination papers on the eve or during the examination period. I would like the chairperson to:- (a) Provide the identities of the persons who have been caught. (b) State where the persons are taken and what action has been taken on them. (c) State the individual who is responsible for the custody of marked examination papers for KCPE and KCSE before the results are released.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. With your permission, I would like to request further that when the chairperson is bringing that very important statement, to allay the fears of members of the public that corruption has now gone into the marking of the exams to the extent that principals of certain schools talk to the marking centres so that their schools are given better grades.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): That is an interesting one.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do take responsibility that the office of the Senate Majority Leader will ensure that in two weeks, the statement will be issued.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sorry, Sen. Elachi. There is a Member of the Committee who is ready to take up the responsibility.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as a Member of the Committee on Education, I will make sure that the same is communicated to the chairperson.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Karaba, make sure both requests are communicated to the chairperson.

Exactly, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I will make sure that is done.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Next Order.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, you have three minutes to conclude your debate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, while contributing to this Motion yesterday, I said that this Committee has done us proud by visiting various work stations to see what is taking place in the country. The visit was to let the members familiarize themselves with operations and be able to tell Kenyans what is taking place in those parastatals and whether their money is being utilized properly. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, yesterday, I quoted an example where I said there are some notorious corners which are known as black spots where every year we have problems happening. In West Pokot County, for example, there is a place called Kamatira Corner. Every year, the relevant Ministry sends engineers to find out a lasting solution. However, for the last 20 years, nothing has happened on that black spot. The more we continue delaying in correcting the designs, the more we continue losing lives. I also talked about the pipeline depots in Eldoret and Nakuru. Yesterday, an hon. Senator suggested that we could have these pipeline depots all over the country. I expect a depot to be put up in Busia Town, so that tankers can collect their fuel from there and transport to Uganda and Rwanda. By so doing, it will be easier for them to collect their fuel and we avoid accidents of these tankers at Salgaa and Sachang’wan. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, noting that the geography and the way some of our roads were built, we may need to expand roads in areas and locations where we have rough terrain. For example, when you are climbing the stretch between Salgaa and Sachang’wan, you may encounter some challenges. It is a black spot. Therefore, there is need to expand it so that we have four lanes. It is easier to prevent accidents rather than cry foul when they happen. What does it cost us if we, as a nation, have a greater highway going to Ethiopia all the way from Nairobi? We could have a four lanes road. We should also have depots along our borders with Sudan, Uganda and Tanzania for easier and cheaper transportation of fuel. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with those remarks, I beg to support.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, I would have expected you to question the terms “black spot”. Why not dangerous spots? Maybe that is why we have problems because it is a black spot.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to join my colleagues in supporting this Motion and congratulating the Committee for doing a commendable job. They went round to see the status of our oil refinery and other energy sector facilities. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, yesterday, there came up an issue of suitability for placing oil refineries. I just want to quickly put some clarification to that point, not because I am from Isiolo County, but because it was a Government plan to open up the Northern Corridor which is a silent, high-potential corridor. It will also bring up to speed areas that were left out for a long time since Independence and even before. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it so happened that in that programme there was a refinery which was meant to be at Lamu. But there was a lot of resistance to the placement of this refinery there because of the marine ecology and some activists together with the local community who actually rejected the placement of that refinery in Lamu. It so happened that naturally the northern Lamu Port and South Sudan Transport Corridor (LAPSSET) project which was going to be opened up and the one from Nairobi The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it Sen. Hassan Omar?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Sen. (Dr.) Kuti has made serious allegations against the leader of this robust coalition as a “Jet-set” individual, I think, insinuating that he was never available. Could he substantiate or withdraw and apologise to our leader?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. Sen. (Dr.) Kuti, you have been challenged.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, all I meant is that being a Minister for Foreign Affairs, he had a lot of tasks to negotiate for Kenya.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! You have been challenged to substantiate or withdraw.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am substantiating. A Foreign Affairs Minister’s job entails a lot of travel to attend to various fora. Therefore, it makes him naturally a “jet-set” Minister, to the extent that he was a hostage in a certain country!

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The hon. Member on the Floor is very unfair to the leader of this side of the coalition. If you look at the definition of the word “jet-set”, these are people who travel for leisure to go to resorts and enjoy themselves unnecessarily. Is he insinuating that the hon. Senator for Bungoma County was travelling for leisure?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): To my knowledge, I do not think the hon. Senator did attack the personality of the---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, I am speaking! I do not think he attacked the personality of the Senate Minority Leader. He only tried to remember his past life. All he was supposed to do is either substantiate with evidence about the “jet-setting” or just withdraw and continue. Do you have the documents to prove that?

“Jet-setting” is not unparliamentary.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Yes, Sen. Haji.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to confirm the statement made by Sen. (Dr.) Kuti because I happen to have been his assistant and we did so many flights within one week. We were in the air for one week with him.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Haji! I did not call for witnesses. Sen. (Dr.) Kuti, do you have documentary evidence or do you want me to give you more time to table that evidence? If you do not have the evidence and you do not need more time, just withdraw your remarks.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the definition of “jet-set” is just to state the numerous visits, which is natural with a Minister for Foreign Affairs. I withdraw and apologise.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very good.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, is it in order for the hon. Senator to say that the refinery could not have been placed in Lamu because of the ecology and he wants it to be in Isiolo? Is there no ecology in Isiolo County to be taken care of?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Ndiema! That is not a point of order! Sen. (Dr.) Kuti, please, continue.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it, Sen. Orengo?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thought the distinguished Senator from Isiolo County compounded the insinuations in his remarks by saying that the Senate Minority Leader was held hostage. Now, being held hostage is very different from---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Orengo! We have since proceeded to other issues. You have been overtaken by events.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I could not raise it because there was another point of order. But I think it is a very serious allegation. If you are held hostage, it means you are under arrest or confined.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Haji, what do you have to say about that? Could you also withdraw the remarks?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it will be very unfair to ask me to withdraw. I have confirmed, as a then Minister for Defence, that I travelled with him from Kenya to Somalia, Ethiopia, Uganda, Burundi and Rwanda. So, we were all the time in the air!

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Were you held hostage?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what I know is that the hon. Senator was late to catch a flight and because of a coup d’etat we were not able to come back on time.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Anyway it is public knowledge that at one time the Minister for Foreign Affairs was held hostage in Mali.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. It is not true that he was ever held hostage. The point of the matter is that---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, he is on a point of order. Give him time! The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the point of the matter is that there was a coup d’etat in Mali. There were no flights out of Mali. At no time was he confined, arrested or held hostage by the authorities in Mali.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Thank you for that explanation. I think that should rest the whole discussion. I do not think it is really worth discussing it anymore.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I will invite the Chair to take judicial notice of the fact that the distinguished Senator for Isiolo County spent all his time injecting dogs and other animals, and the English language is alien to him. That is why he is making such erroneous statements in a language he does not fully understand.

Well, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, about the issue of the English language, it is neither here nor there, because I am a Borana. My first language is Borana, it is not English. Therefore, I do not take that as a challenge although I went to school to the extent that I am a medical doctor in this country.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Please, let us allow Sen. (Dr.) Kuti to continue.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this the last point of order on this issue.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Is it so important?

It is so important, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Okay, can you execute it?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I taught Sen. (Dr.) Kuti in school. I made sure he learnt all that was necessary as far as the English language was concerned. He is a good English speaker.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Okay. You can see what you have done. You have actually disputed the ability of a teacher to his student. Anyway, that is history. Sen. (Dr.) Kuti, please, continue.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, before I was interrupted, I was trying to explain the fact that there was a bigger picture than just the issue of Isiolo. The whole objective of the northern corridor project is to open up areas that were hitherto locked out, that have never been opened up, but would have contributed to the GDP of this country. The issue of the ecology mentioned by Sen. Ndiema was utilized by the environmental activists and the local community. I did not talk about ecology as a consideration. It was the consideration of those who were opposing the location of that refinery. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, energy is a very important sector for development. Therefore, if we have to open the northern part which the whole LAPSSET project The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I start by joining in thanking the Committee for the good work done. Listening to the debate on this issue, there have been very good contributions. I believe the Committee is taking notes to enrich the report. Ports everywhere in the world have the potential of growing economies, creating wealth and employment. There are countries which could not be states if they had no ports. You cannot talk about Dubai, Singapore and Amsterdam without the ports. The Port of Mombasa has the potential to double the growth of our economy. If we harness the port effectively, do the necessary plans and invest prudently we will able to create jobs for the people of Kenya. We will do away with unemployment in this country, particularly in Mombasa County. If we seriously take the issue of employment of the youth then we have to look at the port. The agricultural sector, which we have depended on for a long time has a limit to which we can extend. But there is a potential in the East African region. We are very well placed and, indeed, in the African region and the world. Foreigners see it; sometimes we do not seem to see it. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the area we really need to look at is to see how to make the port handle big ships. Not only that, there are other economic activities that go along way with ports; for instance, a duty free port. This is an idea that has been discussed in the past. I remember in the 1990s, it was almost getting off. We do not understand why this step has not been taken. A duty free port means that any importer can bring his goods there provided they are not contraband and store them there without paying duty. He will wait for customers within this region or within the country to go and buy them. It is a cost effective way of warehousing. Currently, there are numerous bonded warehouses in the country. Administratively, they are very expensive to run for the Customs Department. They are even very difficult to police. Sometimes we have had incidents where warehouses have been used to smuggle goods because they are scattered all over. We have heard of sugar, drugs and other items leaving the port and being stored in warehouses. A free port will be in a single location which could be easily policed. There is a sight which has already been identified at Dongo Kundu. I believe it is still available. If we fast track that process then we stand to benefit. In terms of procurement of goods for the Government, these goods have to be imported through Mombasa. If there was a warehouse in Mombasa, the length of delivery would be shortened and the works would progress without delay. It is high time that we revisited The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Melly! Remember the rules of this House. The Standing Orders do not allow you to stand in the corridors of this Chamber. You should look for a seat and consult in low tones. I am addressing you, Sen. Melly.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to end by saying that I support this Motion.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. First, I would like to congratulate you for sitting on that hot seat. I thank the Committee led by the Senator from Baringo. I congratulate them for coming up with such a beautiful report that outlines issues about our refineries and the pipeline. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Port of Mombasa is one economic unit. If run and managed properly without corruption and with efficiency and effectiveness, it can contribute to the wealth of Kenya. If Kenyans will manage the Port of Mombasa the way Singaporeans and the people of Dubai have managed their ports, then we would not need to tax Kenyans at all. Kenyans would live in a country like the United Kingdom where they have the social welfare; where they do not buy medicines, where children go to school up to university without their parents being taxed and where majority of our people can be housed. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like challenge the new Chairman who has been appointed to fast track the Port of Mombasa to be a free port. This has been said by hon. Ndiema. In 1990s, retired President Moi appointed a taskforce that went all the way to Singapore, Japan, Malaysia and Dubai to make Mombasa a free port. The Ministry that is concerned with this docket should fast track the information that was collected by the taskforce and make Mombasa a duty free port. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was there last month and the congestion I saw was too much. There was confusion on the main road from Mombasa to Nairobi. There were many trailers on the road. If we manage our railways properly, we will not see tankers lining up 20 kilometres all the way to Mariakani. If we manage our pipeline properly and we extend it to Busia or Malaba, we will not see the oil tankers that have caused mayhem at Salgaa and many other areas around the country. We will not be seeing accidents at Salgaa if the pipeline was extended to Busia and Malaba. The Ministry concerned should come up with a decree so that the oil tankers that transverse Kenya can pick their products at border points. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with regard to petroleum refineries, I would like to thank former President Kibaki for suggesting Isiolo is the most appropriate place to have another refinery. We already have one in Mombasa, but why should we have another one in Lamu which is the same region? We should have one in Isiolo which is the heart of Kenya. If you dissect Kenya into four, you will see that Isiolo is almost the heart. I can The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Asante sana, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Kama Mkenya mimi ninasema kwamba hii ni ripoti nzuri, lakini kama mtu wa kutoka pwani, haifai. Imeeleza vile Bandari ya Mombasa ni nzuri, lakini haikueleza maneno kama mtu wa pwani. Ripoti hii haituambii ni vijana wetu wangapi kutoka pwani ambao wameajiriwa kazi Kilindini. Ripoti hii inatueleza vile Bandari ya Mombasa inafaa Kenya nzima wala si pwani. Shida tunayoipata sisi kule pwani ni kwamba, tunatumika kama ngazi. Ukweli ni kwamba bandari hii iko pwani na haina haja ya kuelezwa na kuna nyingine kule Kisumu. Sasa utaona ya kwamba sisi kama watu wa kutoka pwani hatunufaiki. Idadi ya vijana wanaotoka pwani ambao wameandikwa kazi pwani kulingana na takwimu ni wachache muno. Huo ndio ukweli wa maneno na ndio maana tunasema kwamba Kenya ni nchi moja lakini kuna mambo mengine ambayo ni lazima yabadilike. Haifai watu wengine kubaguliwa wakati wengine wanapokula. Kulingana na takwimu zilioko wale ambao wamechukua nafasi za management katika hiyo bandari wanatoka wapi? Sina haja ya kusema.

Order. Kama unataka kuongea kwa lugha ya Kiswahili, ongea kwa lugha hiyo. Management si neno la Kiswahili.

Bw. Spika wa Muda, ninashukuru maanake Kiswahili wakati mwingine kinachanganya. Jambo ambalo linatupatia utata ni kwamba bandari iko Mji wa Mombasa. Sasa tujiulize, Kaunti ya Mombasa kando ya zile kaunti tano zinazozunguka Mombasa, zinafaidika vipi kutokana na Bandari hii? Tukiitwa Wakenya tunaona raha. Bandari hii inachangia pakubwa uchumi wa nchi hii kutokana na ushuru unaotozwa wafanyabiashara. Bandari hii ni chanzo kubwa cha rasilmali ya Kenya hii. Sisi ambao tunachangia kikita rasilmali hiyo, kazi yetu kubwa ni kusema ‘amina’ huku watu wengine wakifaidika. Mambo haya ni lazima yabadilike. Kamati itakapokwenda tena pwani, ni lazima itie hayo ndani ya mawazo yao na iseme kwamba hawa ndio wanaozalisha nyingi za The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the distinguished Senator for Kwale to repeatedly give the impression that this Senate would endorse a situation whereby we incite our communities against national assets that might be in our counties? There are many other national assets in this country that also contribute to the same GDP that fights poverty in all the corners of this country.

Ninamshukuru Seneta nimpendaye mwenye maneno mazuri anayetetea haki za wanyonge. Lakini ninashangaa kwamba anaona hakuna haja ya haki ya Mpwani. Huyu ni Senata mzuri na mtetezi wa haki. Lakini ninashangaa kwamba anaona hakuna haja kwa Mpwani kupata haki zake. Bw. Spika wa Muda, hata kama baadhi ya viongozi wanapinga haki zetu ni lazima tupatate hata kama ni kwa asilimia ndogo. Tumewasikia Maseneta wakieleza kinaga ubaga faida zake Bandari ya Mombasa. Inafaa watu wa pwani nao waweze kuona bandari ikiwa na manufaa kwao. Hilo ndilo jambo tunalotetea. Sasa hapo pamezidi nini?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! I was looking for the relevant Standing Order for Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale’s point of order. In the new Standing Orders, Standing Order No.109 - maybe the only thing that I can accuse Sen. Boy Juma Boy of is repetition. The Standing Orders are very explicit on ordering you not to keep on repeating. I think that you are repeating yourself. Continue!

Bw. Spika wa Muda, nakushukuru kwa maneno yako mazuri. Angalau umeona upande wangu.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Order!

Bw. Spika wa Muda, kwa hayo machache, ninaunga mkono Hoja.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to thank you for this opportunity. As much as I do comprehend the Kiswahili language, I think that my senior and elder, the Senator for Kwale, has actually given the context and he literally spoke to some of the points that I have put together. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first and foremost, is just a cautionary or advisory note to the Committee. I think that that the Committees of this Senate must not operate like the traditional Committees that we have known. The Committees of this Senate must try to go deeper in terms of evaluating certain issues that surround the political, social and economic sphere of certain national resources wherever they might be. Even as I was fighting to come to the Senate, central to my campaigns were some of these national The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Will due respect, I did not want to interrupt the Senator for Mombasa. But is it in order for him to say that there is Kshs5 billion which was paid to somebody as a result of the railway project? Could he elaborate because those are serious allegations?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Order! Could you refer to your Standing Order No.110 (b)? We will charge you for disorderly conduct because you have knowingly raised a false point of order.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what do you mean by “knowingly?” That is why I was asking that he should elaborate. It is a serious allegation to say that Kshs5 billion was pocketed.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): To my knowledge, he has not mentioned any Kshs5 billion.

He has mentioned it, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Could we check in the HANSARD? I am ready to pay for the fine, after we have checked in the HANSARD.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Order! I have heard you. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the distinguished Senator for Kericho to exchange with the Chair? When the Chair directs, orders or rules, everybody has a duty to obey, even when you do not agree. You cannot stand up, gesture and exchange with the Chair, against the rules of the House.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Keter, you will respect the Chair henceforth.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think that it is good for the record---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Keter!

I respect the Chair, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Order!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, these are facts which must be there.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Mr. Keter! Just say “point of order” and I will give you. Can you do it now?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Okay, continue!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I still insist on my earlier point of order on the allegation made by the Senator for Mombasa that Kshs5 billion was paid off. He must elaborate or withdraw and apologize.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Omar, you have been challenged.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I did make an allegation to that effect, but did not say which railway it went into paying that commission. But that said and done, Sen. Keter, my initial point, if you were listening to me without the emotions of the Coalition, was that if similar investments can be made so sporadically to build some of the most modern infrastructure or means of communication, what stops any successive Government, including this Government that is in power right now, to commit equal money to save the Kenya Refinery Limited?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. With all due respect to my friend, I think that we need some guidance here. A very serious point of order was raised by Sen. Keter. If it is correct that my friend, Sen. Omar, did say that Kshs5 billion was given to somebody as a bribe in this House, he cannot evade the question on the basis of which railway he was referring to. It is very clear which railway he is talking about, because there is no other railway in Kenya. Therefore, either Sen. Omar did not talk about the Kshs5 billion or he did say “Kshs5 billion.” If he did say so, he should substantiate. If he did not say so, then we should clear it in the HANSARD that he did not.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the distinguished Senators for Kericho and Nyeri to exhibit short fuse on a matter that has not been canvassed when, in fact, the Chief Executive of this country has confessed that the Government is being chocked by corruption and the Controller and Auditor General has said that Kshs300 billion cannot be accounted for? The distinguished Senator for Mombasa simply said that we must guard against figures like the Kshs5 billion that we hear is being paid. I am sitting next to him and he never said that the Kshs5 billion has been paid to a Member of this House. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I have heard you, Sen. Kagwe. Sen. Hassan, do you accept the accusation?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I made reference to the fact that Kshs5 billion was allegedly paid as commission.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Could you, therefore, substantiate or withdraw?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, at this point in time, I will withdraw those remarks and apologize. However, I shall substantiate in due course.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order. No pre-qualifications. You have withdrawn and apologized, period!

Therefore, the two Senators---

On a point of guidance, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I do not know any point of order that has that name. Proceed.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to make cognizance that a lot of time was taken in that---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Yes, what is your point of order?

Is Sen. Hassan in order to express himself in such a manner that is so intimidating and almost bordering on violence as he---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order. That is his normal gait.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it, Sen. Wetangula?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am sitting next to Sen. Hassan and I am neither intimidated nor threatened. I have not even felt any vibrations as he speaks.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Proceed.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it unsettles me to know that it is very easy to intimidate Sen. (Dr.) Kuti. But that said and done, I would like to say that this Committee must address itself to how they can salvage Kenya from this sorry state we find ourselves in. I have seen certain robust proposals about the potential transformation of the usage of the Kenya Petroleum Refinery Limited (KPRL). However, my view is that there should be substantial investment to secure fully the operations of this refinery. Sen. Melly, Sen. Wangare and the Speaker, Hon. Ethuro, and I, visited an oil reach country, the Islamic Republic of Iran very recently. Part of their interest is to invest in oil in the general chain of oil from the point of extraction to the point of sale. Kenya can invite oil rich countries to invest in this country and secure jobs. With those few remarks, I beg to support. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, few points here may help us in this House. The first one is that when Vasco Da Gama came through the Cape of Good Hope, he also went through Mombasa. He never found somebody there until he reached Malindi where he found somebody called Majid who took him all the way to India. The second point, there was somebody Kraff who started his journey from Mombasa.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is not in order? Please, give him time to express his points. He is only on point number two. Continue with your points!

There was somebody called Kraff, a layman, who in 1897, also passed through a place called Rabai where they put up a school called Rabai Secondary School. Today that school has no desks. He came all the way to Ukambani where he found another Mkamba called Kiboi who showed them Mt. Kenya. That is how Kenya was created – Kenyaa. The Mkamba could pronounce “Kirinyaga”, but instead he wrote

So it was taken like “that is Mt. Kenya” That is how Kenya came to be known as Kenya. I am now telling you what happened. We are now going back to things that are deeply historical. Tanzania had to shift its capital from Dar-es Salaam to Dodoma. Why? Ask yourself why during those days, the then British could not make Mombasa the capital city of Kenya. They had to move it to Nairobi in 1900. They tried Machakos in 1896, it was not possible so they had to move to Nairobi in 1900. What we are trying to say is that there must have been reasons which made these people not settle. This could be the same reasons those places were not made capitals. This could be the same reason we are still discussing about Changamwe or the pipeline. One of the reasons why Kilindini in Mombasa is a very important harbour is because it is the only natural harbour along the East African coast from Cape Guandavui all the way to Cape Town.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

There are several points of order.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Kerrow, what is your point of order?

Mr. Temporary, Sir, you heard what the hon. Senator said that those

failed to set themselves up in Mombasa, Ukambani, Rabai and everywhere and came to Nairobi. He did not tell us the reason behind it. He said there were reasons wazungus did not settle on those places. He needs to tell Kenyans, are there man-eating communities in those places? What exactly is he trying to say? He must say because we are all worried.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is not in order?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, he kind of implied that there is something wrong with those communities in those areas that discouraged those wazungus from settling there. Could he clarify what he meant?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Billow, I do not think there is any clarification. That is his opinion. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Wetangula, what is your point of order.

Is it in order for the distinguished Senator for Kirinyaga to falsify facts of history and geography that Kilindini is the only natural deep water harbour along the entire East African coast when we know we have the natural deep water harbour of Daaban, Peira, Maputo, Nakala, Nambula, Dar-es Salaam, Tanga, Takaungu, Malindi, Lamu, Kismayu, Mogadishu and Djibouti. Is he in order?

On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Do you need information?

I do not require it, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Ooh, it is you!

Then I will accept.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to inform, not just Sen. Karaba, but my brother Sen. Wetangula, that what is referred to as a natural port is a port where it is not necessary to dredge. The natural phenomenon has occurred so that you do not dredge. Dar-es Salaam is a dredged port, Durban is a dredged port and all the others that he mentioned are actually dredged ports. That is the information I wanted to give.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order. Information might be good for the House consumption, but Sen. Wetangula was not on the Floor. Proceed, Sen. Karaba.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is a missing link in the knowledge of history and geography. In this case, I am very sure that some of the Members here are not learners. They need to know the reasons some of these things happened. Ask yourself why.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it, Sen. Okong’o?

I do not know whether I am the only one who heard my good friend, the simba from Kirinyaga mention that “some”. Who are those some? Could he substantiate who are the “some” who are not quick to learn?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Karaba, indeed, you have imputed some bad motives or bad aspersions on Members of this House. Could you substantiate who is the slow learner in this House, otherwise, withdraw.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is true that some people here are not aware about Majid from Malindi. For example, Sen. Keter may not be aware.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The hon. Karaba knows how much I respect him. You remember I campaigned for you. Is he in order to suggest that the only measure of capacity to learn is to know something meaningless called Majid?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Indeed, Sen. Karaba, I ordered that you either substantiate or withdraw the fact that some Members of this House slow learners.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have also in this House--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Karaba! That is an order from the Chair.

Okay. I withdraw so that I can continue. With regard to the Port of Mombasa, it is not only national but an international port. According to what the Committee has done, they have done a good thing to tell us about Mombasa, but they should have gone further to tell us how this port can be expanded, how it can be used by Kenya or the hinterland countries like South Sudan, Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi and the Eastern Coast of Congo (DRC). That is the reason we need to expand Mombasa to a bigger port. So, what did they find out to make Mombasa what it is than it is now? One of the good things that they should have included is to recommend that the Port of Mombasa be a container port. We need to talk about what we have seen in other places like Singapore, Rotterdam and New York. For that port to develop, it relinquishes some of the position to other countries. This is because those countries will declare some regions to be theirs. That is what happened in Rotterdam. You may not know this, but Rotterdam has become big. This is because it serves international quotas. For us to make Mombasa more than it is now, we need to expand it in light of having its hinterland served adequately. That is why we need to have a pipeline all the way from Mombasa. We also need to make Kisumu a terminal port. That way, we will have another refinery of by-products of crude oil. The pipeline we have from Mombasa to Malaba and other parts of Kenya transports refined products. So, we need to have another one, that will be parallel or one that will be facing another direction; probably, northern countries, where we can refine oil at the place of destination. This would reduce the cost of transportation, for that matter. We have seen how our roads are all dilapidated. The road which was done by the Chinese recently from Mombasa to Nairobi has potholes. This is because we do not give it enough care and we even allow big trucks to use the road. We should have another pipeline leading to Isiolo which is a better location that would be good thing to imagine. It is also important to know that Mombasa, due to its congested nature; either from human traffic or ships---- We need to know how the town can be modernized. I remember moving a Motion on cable cars. There is a high possibility that the first cable cars may start from Ukunda all the way to the central part of Mombasa. If that happens, this will reduce the traffic flow from south coast to the mainland. That would ease congestion on the mainland and promote industries in town. That would also make Mombasa a free port. This can be a 24-hour port. That is what we keep on seeing when we visit places like Kuala Lumpar and other places. Therefore, when you come back from those countries, please, come back and transfer the knowledge that you get from those countries to our country instead of coming to transfer things that incite people as I have heard in this room. If every person was to declare county interest in all issues that we speak about, then we would say that all the waters flowing from the Mt. Kenya region to the Coast Province should be diverted to the use of Kirinyaga County. However, we cannot do that. If everybody was to talk about Mombasa being a county port, then it would cease to be an international port the way Rotterdam is. So, let us not narrow this down to a county debate. Let us discuss things that are national. Let us think international and that is how we will get the much needed foreign exchange. That foreign exchange is what will develop our roads and schools. Let The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this report and concur with quite a bit of what we have heard from distinguished Senators. Having done so, I would like to raise a couple of things that the House and the Committee can help in thinking about. When we visit the institutions that we do, as Committees of the Senate, one presumes that there is an exchange of views in two ways. First, we learn something from the Committees’ visits so that we stay informed about what they are doing and the plans that each institution or organization has. Secondly, we should impute some knowledge and make suggestions to those Committees about their operations and how we feel with regard to how they can improve the lives of Kenyans and their efficiency. I want to start by congratulating the Kenya Ports Authority (KPA) because they have done quite a good job in spite of limited resources, from what we can see in this report. Recently, they opened a new shed, shed No.19. Shed 19 is one of the most modern that we have in the East African coastline. Not only is it on land that has been reclaimed from the sea, as it were---- I do not believe that there is another port on the East Africa coastline that reclaimed land to build a new port. I want to congratulate the KPA for the modern way of thinking. I also want to urge that some of the issues that were raised here, particularly by Sen. Boy Juma Boy, regarding the matter of Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) be extended in a manner that the people in the coast are aware, with regard to what KPA is doing for them, particularly with regard to institutions that they are helping to build. The training institutions that they are helping to build at the coast line like the Bahari Training Institute and other institutions that they are supporting should be publicized so that they are not accused of not having done anything. Having said that, it is of no point if KPA on its own, became efficient while the road and railway networks are not efficient. If these were efficient, goods and services would move very quickly from the port. However, once they are cleared at the Kilindini Harbour, there would be clogging all the way. We have heard how, Busia, for example, is severely clogged. I spent four hours driving to Mombasa from Mazeras because of the trucks on the road. Unless and until we have an efficient railway transport system, those trucks will continue to give us hell, not only on Mombasa Road, but even here in Nairobi. At times, they are lined up all the way from Westlands towards Mlolongo. We are saying that the KPA, on its own, cannot improve the system. We ought to have a system that we can use to improve the entire transport system in the country. In the short term, it is possible for the road network, at least, around Mazeras to have a short bypass so that trucks are cleared without necessarily following each other on that route. This is extremely expensive for motorist and for the truckers themselves. The KPA - this is new thinking - should also think about how it will capture the imagination of people at the coast in terms of new areas of expertise. There is nothing to stop the KPA from diversifying their operations and starting a tourism firm for themselves. They should start ocean liners that can take people around the East African The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to contribute on this Motion. I want to say, on the outset, that I am one of the Members of the Committee on Energy, Roads and Infrastructure, but I was not able to be on the familiarization tour to KPA, KPRL and KPC. However, I want to say that after going through the Report, it is a good and thorough Report. After listening to the contributions by Members, it is a good Report that we need to really adopt and go further to make sure that some of the recommendations which have been suggested are pushed ahead so that we can realize them. I want to start with KPRL which is a very old facility. It is the only facility we have in terms of oil products to Kenya. It was a joint venture between some of the oil marketers; Shell and the others with the Government of Kenya. Sometimes back in 2009, the oil marketers sold off their shares and Essar from India bought all their shares to stand at 50/50. One of the conditions was to inject capital into this facility. It is very surprising that five years down the line, Essar never injected any capital into this facility. Instead they imposed their own management; the Managing Director and the Financial Director all came from Essar, and hence they were running the facility, taking the profit and declaring that it was not profitable. Up to now as I speak, the contract of the shareholding issue has not been resolved. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Essar should be kicked out like yesterday because they never injected capital into this facility. We are reading from the Report that KPRL is making losses and oil marketers have resorted to importing refined oil directly to this country. They are not importing crude oil so that the Government can get some revenue. The issue of shutting down KPRL vis-à-vis injecting capital, to me, I want to say that this is a very strategic facility. What needs to be done is to kick out Essar, pay them off, although they have not paid anything and let the Government inject capital into KPRL. We should change the technology which is being used there. Since there is very big land there, part of it can be used for storage tanks. As I speak, if today, God forbid, that we cannot get oil supplies to this country, we cannot last for even three days. We do not have any storage facilities. What we have are products for oil marketers. The KPC is holding those products for them. The Government does not have and reserve products for any emergency. Every month, there is a tender which is floated two months in advance for oil marketers to come and pick their products. So, we have to make bold decisions as a country and say goodbye to Essar for not fulfilling their commitment and then the Government can inject money into KPRL. On the KPC, which as the Report says, is doing very well; their finances are good, the issue which is worrying is that we are talking about a pipeline from Mombasa to Nairobi which was built 35 years ago. This was a very small pipeline vis-à-vis the consumption of the country right now especially regionally because there are products The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Report of the Standing Committee on Energy on the tour. This is the second such report that this Committee has submitted. The last report that they submitted was on the tour of the geothermal area. We are hopeful that the next report will not be focusing on familiarization, but they will go deeper into issues that affect this sector. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is one of the most important sectors in any nation’s economy today. The next world war will be about energy. It is not going to be about land or equality. As a nation, we are lucky that we are strategically placed in the part of the world that is endowed with energy resources. I am talking of energy in its wider sense. The region in which we are – the Great Lakes or whatever – has resources ranging from uranium to oil and every mineral that you can think of. Natural gas is found The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Sen. Billow! Did you say that our people eat dogs?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it was reported widely last month that because of starvation, one family survived on dogs for a whole week in a place called Turkana. It was covered widely and the Government did not dispute that. That is the reference that I made. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we need huge investments in this sector, particularly in the Kenya Pipeline Company and the energy sector as a whole. So, we need a complete paradigm shift in terms of the way we look at this sector and invest. We cannot talk of the state corporations running these things and yet, there are investors who are interested. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, let me come to the issue of the refinery. If there is any fraud that the successive governments of Kenya have perfected and made Kenyans suffer, it is on the Kenya Petroleum Refinery. This piece of antiquate – something that was built in 1960 – is the most inefficient facility that we can talk of on this continent today. I want to tell you that because I am a player in this industry. When you take products there today, even as it remains closed, the oil marketing companies have lost a combined amount of money of nearly US$100 million, that the refinery owners are unable to refund, because of the losses it has incurred over the last 20 to 30 years. For the last five years alone, for every litre of fuel that you take from the pump, we are actually paying up to Kshs14 more because of the inefficiency of this facility. But because we believe in some idea that this is a strategic asset, we retained that thing. The Government has been dilly dallying in shutting down this thing. For the last month I have been hearing news, and it is a pity that the Committee did not raise this, that we have to pay some US$2 million or US$3 million. We sold 50 per cent of that company for a pittance – US$ 5 million. They were to invest, according to the agreement, US$400 million into that company, but did not spend a penny. Instead, for the many years that they have been running, their losses were covered 100 per cent, in a much skewed system of costing of the product. The Government of Kenya ensured that they were covered for the entire cost, plus the merging of profit, something that does not happen anywhere in the world. This is a commercial enterprise; they came here for business. So, you make your people suffer at the expense of giving profit to another party – a private sector that purports to have invested. They did not put a single penny and walked away with billions of shillings in profit. That philosophy and mindset is still there in the Government. There are many like, for example, the concession on the Kenya Railway. This same Committee needs to look at the concession on the Kenya Railway. We signed off that concession years ago for Rift Valley Railways to pump in billions, but what has been done? We are still running the same antiquated facilities that you see. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am at least glad that the Kenya Petroleum Refineries has been shut down, but the Government has an obligation to pay the oil companies the losses that have been accumulated. To date, there are people who have paper stocks in that refinery that you cannot actually give to the oil marketing companies.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Sen. Keter!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the same issue of energy, I agree with what the previous speakers have said that we need huge investment. I am glad that the Government is thinking of putting up a new pipeline from Nairobi to Mombasa. But, again, really the Government should look at the possibility of bringing on board the private sector into this industry, otherwise, we will also be operating at under-capacity and suffering constraints of infrastructure in the energy sector. This is one sector that is expanding more than any other. There is no way that you can talk of expanding the economy – whether it is agriculture, tourism or transport – if you do not have energy. The consumption of fuel is increasing across the region and we have got a strategic port. You want to serve all those countries, but you are telling them: Sorry, I can only allocate you a space of 30, when you can actually invite people to put billions into this thing. Because of certain interests, we are unable to expand the facility. We have talked about privatizing the Kenya Pipeline for the last 15 years. We cannot move because of interests all the time. I think it is important that the Government really focuses on some of these areas, if we want to focus on the economy. Lastly, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, let me talk about the issue of energy, including power generation. The Ministry of Energy and Petroleum is very important but we keep hearing of various interests in this sector. If there is one area in this Government where there are a lot of conflicting interests that frustrate progress, development and investment, it is this sector. It is wrong to allow individuals to literally get people out of office because they want to create opportunities for themselves, their people or for others. We are seeing this now with the issue of the geothermal sector. We are reading in the newspapers of what is happening everyday, that a chairman wants to get a particular individual out of office, they want to put mtu wao. This kind of culture must stop. This Committee has an obligation to go beyond telling us they visited various places to actually going into issues that affect this sector. They should tell the Government what is not right and what needs to be done. This approach is very important. We, as a nation, cannot continue suffering due to the self-interests of individuals. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I conclude by saying that we, as a nation, are strategically placed. We are lucky that there is oil that has been discovered in Turkana County. I hear it has also been found in Mandera and Lamu. I know we will discover oil in many other places. We need to think about the issue of a refinery. We need a discussion around these issues. We do not want a boardroom decision. Let the Committee table the energy policy as soon as possible so that we can look at it. They should also table the proposals regarding where to put an important infrastructure like the refinery. Is it going to be in Lamu? Let us have a debate around it. This House needs to be engaged in these matters because we are interested in resource allocation to the people and the counties of this country. Therefore, we must be involved in decision making over this matter. Those are the issues we want to see placed on the table by the Committee. Otherwise, they have done pretty well by giving us a report of their tour. I support. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Distinguished Senators, you have debated on this report very well. The Chairperson of the Committee was with us throughout the debate. The HANSARD report is also there. A lot of good points have been made to perfect the report the next time the committee goes to the field. I now wish to call upon the Mover to reply.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first and foremost, let me take this opportunity to sincerely thank the Senators who have contributed and supported this Motion. I want to assure them that the Committee will go through the HANSARD and make sure that the recommendations from the Members of this House are communicated not only to the corporations, but to the parent Ministries. A follow up will be needed by the Committee of Energy and the other Committee on Roads and Transportation to make sure that the good suggestions which have been made by the Members are actually implemented in due course. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there are so many recommendations but key to note, as has been discussed by the Members, it is important to say that the Committee will take the lead to hold discussions with the Government and the Ministry concerned to make sure that the private sector is invited to play a role in the energy and transport sectors. It has also been suggested that the Committee will lead in bringing legislation to this House; we will take quick steps to make sure that we ban the trucking of oil from Mombasa to Nairobi and Kisumu because we have a pipeline. We shall, as a Committee, fast track some of the legislation. We will also make sure that we bring policy papers here to discuss about energy and transportation in this country because good discussions have been made on the Floor of the House. This Committee is going to Mombasa this weekend. There is an energy sector workshop that will discuss about energy. Any interested Member of this House who will be in Mombasa is most welcome to discuss issues related to the energy sector. We will discuss with other stakeholders some of the suggestions discussed here. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to summarize a few remarks that have been discussed and canvassed in this House. As we wind up the Committee on Energy, Roads and Transportation and focus on the Committee on Energy, the new Committee on Roads and Transportation should take up the challenge that has been raised by the Members, to make sure that we innovate and come up with a strategy on transportation in this country, especially focusing on our two cities, Nairobi and Mombasa. On Mombasa, Members specifically discussed about the road from the airport to the city and the congestion that is there at the moment. We know that Mombasa is a gateway and tourist destination. We will summarise all this information and forward it to the Committee on Roads and Transportation, so that they can enhance and discuss further on how to innovate and improve transportation in totality. When I talk about transportation, they need to look at the rail, road and air transport. Air transport plays a key role in developing our economy. We have been talking about a free air space. But as late as 2012 when I was the Minister for Tourism, three airlines wanted to fly to Mombasa and some to Kenya. Up to today, they have not been granted permission to do so. Therefore, the new Committee on Roads and Transportation needs to develop strategies with the other stakeholders on how to bring innovations to the transportation sector. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, this Motion does not affect counties. Therefore, I will not require hon. Senators to vote by delegation.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, aware that a good percentage of Kenya’s population is made up of Kenyans aged 70 years and above and that some of them are affected by senile dementia but have no one to take care of them owing to the reality of changing circumstances; appreciating the introduction of social support programmes by the national Government; concerned, however, that the Government has not comprehensively addressed the challenges of the aged, further concerned that the magnitude of the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise to second this Motion by Sen. (Prof.) Lesan. It is directed to a particular department in Government known as Labour, Social Security and Services in which as you have seen, the Senate urges the national Government to develop a comprehensive policy for the aged. My colleague has talked about a problem that is encountered in old age called senile dementia. As a medical practitioner, he has defined what this problem is. Senile dementia comes from two terminologies; senile and dementia. I can define the two for the sake of the House as follows: Senile can refer to loss of physical abilities in old age, but it usually refers to decreased memory and mental faculties. Getting senile is a very serious condition. As an old person, you might have trouble even remembering who your children are. Dementia is defined as a mental illness that causes someone to be unable to think clearly or to understand what is real and what is not real. Therefore, the combination of the two words actually leads to a progressive abnormally accelerated deterioration of mental faculties and emotional stability in old age occurring especially in people who have a disease called Alzheimers . I am told that nobody knew what this type of disease was. It actually originated in 1906 after a doctor known as Alois Alzheimer. This is how it came into being. There is a doctor here called Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and I hope he is listening. This was a German physician. He presented a case history before a medical meeting of a 51year old lady who suffered from a rare brain disorder and finally they named this disease after him. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as I continue presenting this history, I am told that in America after World War II in 1946 through to 1960, there came a time called the “baby boom” years. During that time, the fertility rate was so high and very many babies were born in the United States of America (US). Likewise, here in Kenya, those baby boomers are entering into retirement age. In the US, when they discovered that there were too many babies within that period, they decided to come up with birth control measures so as to control this trend. Here in Kenya, it is not unique because from history, if you are lucky, you must get old one day. We are lucky because God protects all of us. As many people as possible usually get lucky to reach old age. The only drama that we have which is not very good for us, as Kenyans and Africans, is that we have never had any policy at all that takes care of the aged. From the community where I come from, there was a song that was designed for young people; that one day they will get old and so they should not laugh and imagine that they will also not be old. Sometimes we think that we are going to remain flowery always. I am told that during the NARC regime, an idea was mooted that we should think of taking care of anybody who was 65 years and above. This is how this social welfare thing was started in Kenya to assist the people who were aged. The people who are aged have numerous problems that they undergo. One of them as was mentioned by the Mover is illness. This includes hearing loss, sight loss, memory loss and increased health problems. Another problem we have is with regard to income and economic welfare. This is where an elderly person is not able to go to the farm and they do not have a pension and social security. Loneliness is another problem. Women suffer most because the men die earlier. Men have a shorter life expectancy than women. They also suffer theft and robbery. We The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to this Motion. I strongly oppose this Motion with reasons. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Government should have an alternative and more sustainable ways of helping senior citizens of this country, rather than having them confined in a centre, which is like discrimination to these Kenyan citizens. I oppose this Motion because is see it as a difficult programme to the Government. It will be so The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We are considering a state with its own population. In developed countries, we have welfare states like Britain, France and Italy. Those countries have a system where the old, going by the nature of their economy, will have made so much money for the country such that the country concerned now feels obligated to make sure that, that person when he gets to over 70 years of age, will be protected by the government while at home. That is what we are trying to import from those devolved countries and it can happen. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if we allowed our old men and women to just disappear because of age, I think that God also will not be on our side. I think that we will be committing suicide. Much as I respect my sister – and I hope that when she goes back to Japan, she will learn new tricks – I know that it is possible, in the sense that we have even tried it in Kenya. On Saturday, I attended a harambee. I wish I had invited her to attend. We raised Kshs4 million towards a home for old women who have been abandoned. The home is owned by Sagana Catholic Church. Most of these homes are owned by the churches, because they really know how to take care of people more than the Government. There are some areas where the Government is not known to assist people. For example, in very dry areas like Turkana, you will realize that the church is stronger than the Government in terms of the role that it plays to the human kind. Therefore, people identify themselves with the church, because it is the church which always makes sure that, that human being will live longer. It is also good to see your mother, if it is possible, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have listened to hon. Karaba speak and tell us that the life expectancy rate in this country goes as far as 200 years. This is absurd. Could he substantiate this, because I do not think that it will be right to say so, and Kenyans are listening to a very well known legislator from the Ninth Parliament?

Senator, I think that you are out of order. He never said that the life expectancy of Kenyans is 200 years.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, he said that it is possible to live for 200 years.

He just gave an example and said that because of love, even if one could live for over 200 years, people will still cry.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you can also live up to 200 years if you trust in God. Everything is possible if you trust in God.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, even at 100 years, people are old but they still want to live a good life. You would like the 100 years to continue to infinity. But history and geography have it that there is the theory of isostatic equilibrium, which will at one time make sure that the earth itself also holds the weight of a human being. That is why they have to die and the resurrection is somewhere else. That is what we call the end of that life. So, one has to die anyway at that age. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, some countries have come up with a theory, which I think the hon. Madam Senator is trying to borrow. At the age of 70 years, you are suspected to be a liability to the Government or to the people, so, they clear you before you get to 80 years. There are countries where after 80 years, you are suspected to be a liability and anything can happen to you. I believe that it happens even in some societies here in Kenya. There are some societies in Kenya where the moment you reach over 80 years, you become a liability and it is better if you were not alive. That is why there are times when people do not even cry over a dead person. That is why in some communities, you are buried on the same day that you die. There are some communities in Kenya where if you die, your body is burnt. They do not even bother to bury you. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Government should come up with certain programmes where those who retire are given their benefits on time. For example, when teachers get to 65 years, they should be given money to live up to maybe 80 years. The unfortunate bit is that at the age of 65 years old, you will not even be able to go to Nairobi to look for your benefits. So, we would urge the Government instead of even coming up with this Motion, which I also support, to make sure that after the retirement age, the pension dues should be paid quickly and promptly. There are those who get monthly pensions, this should even be lengthened so that people can benefit up to the age of 80 years. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support this Motion.

How old are you?

Of course, I am a senior citizen. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale was asking me my age and I told him that a man is as young as he feels. First, let me clarify one thing which I think Sen. Omondi misunderstood. The Motion is asking the Senate to urge the Government to develop a comprehensive policy. It does not mean that the Government must do this work itself. The policy will stipulate how the taking care of the aged will be done if indeed that policy will find it better to enforce the systems which already exist, which are working like the old people’s homes that the faith-based organizations have established. If the policy feels that the private sector should be encouraged to establish old people’s homes and get tax deduction for what they have done, that could be part of the policy. So, I think it is for us to survey certain aspects of this policy that is suitable for our country, our economy and our people. I think Sen. Karaba is right. In certain countries, in the West and also in the South because I know Mexico has a social welfare policy that takes care of the aged, and you know the City of Mexico is very polluted but just about 100 miles from the city, there is a huge centre called Westerbeck where workers can escape during the weekend and take there their families at a low cost so that they escape from pollution. That is one aspect of the social welfare for a city like Mexico The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Motion and to thank the Mover for bringing it. During retired President Kibaki’s administration, a Fund was established for the elderly. Within their policies; they said that they would be giving each elderly person Kshs2,500 per month. Some of the challenges with the Fund which we were trying to question at that time were how to identify the elderly person and how to ensure that there is equity across the constituencies. This was a big challenge and I remember the then Minister, Ms. Esther Murugi Mathenge, tried her best to map out how one region would get and next time another region. However, at the end of the day, people would still complain. When you talk about a comprehensive policy, you should look at what South Africa and the Scandinavian countries are doing because they have very good social support programmes. These countries take care of their old because they also have a challenge of not having young people owing to the controlled birth programme which makes them have more elderly persons than the young people. I like what Sen. Karaba said. Let us be honest with ourselves. Today, in our country, we have communities which have decided to build homes so that at one time when they are too busy to take care of their parents, they can take them to a home and that is where they would visit them. However, in the African culture, we believe in staying with our own so that they get blessings before they go back to their creator. However, due to change of culture and the western culture that is taking over us, we are also changing. At Kasarani, there is the Nyumba ya Wazee where we took our grandfather who fought for the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) in terms of education. When he was taken to the home, he became more miserable. This is because he was used to a certain environment in Eldoret. This is the late Kimani Maruge. We thought that it was a good initiative to take him to the home and when we visited him at the home, he told us he wished he was in Eldoret where he could walk and look after his farm. This comprehensive policy will allow them to stay in their homes until they go to their creator. My grandmother died when she was 115. My maternal grandmother died at 98. These people were still strong because they would stay at home and even go to church. The other day, I saw on Citizen Television Channel, a lady who has never gone to hospital but who is now approaching 100. She appeared to be very strong. That means that we need to take care of them. These are resources from the public but who is the public? The public came from the old people. They are the ones who have given birth to us and, therefore, it is time that we took care of them. When you look at our lives, you will see that at one point, you will grow old and become like a baby. When you are undergoing your middle age, you are a strong human being. However, as you age, you start doing the things you were doing as a baby. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I must congratulate Sen. (Prof.) Lesan. It is not surprising that such an important Motion is coming from a man of his calibre. I think this is the first time we are having a Motion touching on the matter of population of Kenya in the Senate. As of July last year, the population of this country had become 44,037,656 people and it can only grow. I remember when I was a young doctor, the life expectancy due to the advent of HIV/AIDS had dropped to about 48 years. Things have improved so much that today the life expectancy of an average Kenyan is 63.3 years The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Yes, I would like to be informed.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale that that was at the back of my mind when I was declining to support the Motion. I was not declining to support the Motion per se, but I was against the centres for the aged because I know they will not help much. People should remain in their homes and get financial support and personal assistance.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my sister, Sen. Omondi, comes from my county and votes for me in Matungu. We should move away from the mzungu culture of wanting to be alone surrounded by only your personal problems. The culture of taking children to children’s home and taking the aged to aged people’s homes is un-African by itself. We should develop strategies to ensure that we support the families; the bread winners to be able to take care of these aged people. As I was googling, I found that the dependency ratio due to old people in Kenya is merely 4.9 per cent. It is not a big deal and we can handle it very well. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what is it really that the aged people want? They do not want too much. This is why I think the drafters of the Constitution captured it very well under Article 43 of our Constitution that speaks to the issue of social and economic rights of Kenyans. They only need food and water, some form of shelter in the name of reasonable housing, clothing and medical care. When you dissect these things, the biggest challenge is actually medical care. Under medical care, the Government should not just focus on the old people. We should also focus on training more doctors. Today, the Government can only afford one doctor for every 10,000 Kenyans and this is when you are taking the global picture, but in practice, most of these doctors work in urban centres, mainly Nairobi, Mombasa, Machakos, Nakuru and Kisumu. We need to go there because the reasons why old people die in the rural areas is not because of diabetes, high blood pressure, cancer or road traffic accidents. Yes, they do, but that is not the main killer. They die from treatable things. You will find that most of them die The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I also rise to support this Motion that was brought to the Floor by Sen. Lesan. I agree that he must have done some research. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what is very important is to develop a very good policy. This is because different homes have different views. There are those who would like to be put in a particular place for them to have good care and there are those who would not like to move out of their families. The same thing applies to their children. I know very well that there are old people who are not being taken care of by their own The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was not prepared to speak, but since we still have the time, I will speak for some minutes. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first of all, I need to thank the Mover of this Motion. It does not take a lot time to think about a Motion and see the effects of that Motion in case it goes through. But I have been in Parliament for sometime and know that it is not a simple job to draft a Motion. You have to gather material and understand the mission that you are going to undertake. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this Motion is merely seeking to remind the Government that there is a group of people in this country that needs the support of the entire country as well. That group is of the old people. Someone mentioned about Members of Parliament and said that when they leave Parliament, they appear broke throughout, but I want to remind the hon. Members that there is a pension scheme for Members of Parliament after they have served for two terms. It is a good pension because I have gone through it before I came to the Senate. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am happy to note that the hon. Senators who spoke on this Motion were less emotional. They had a lot of sense in what they were saying in terms of thinking of how to take care of the old in this country. The Senate has many educated men and women. I want to state that when this Motion was moved, somebody or a Committee, for example, the Committee on Health, should have come up with comprehensive statement of figures to give us, for example, the number of people aged above 70 years. This is so that as we are contributing to this Motion, we are directed by figures and facts. But we normally just speak on what may or may not be there. We needed to know about these figures. This would have enabled us to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. G.G. Kariuki, you still had about six minutes to conclude your contribution to this Motion. If you wish to continue, you can do so tomorrow.

Hon. Senators, it is now time for interruption of business. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 20th March, 2014, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.