(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to give a Statement regarding the police raid on Masjid Musa Mosque in Mombasa County, a statement which was raised by Sen. Hassan Omar whom I do not see here. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, maybe you can give directions because I cannot see Sen. Hassan Omar here but the Statement is ready.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): The Statement belongs to the House and I believe it is the right of the House for you to proceed.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on 6th March, 2014---.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not rise to challenge your ruling but I think this House operates on traditions that have been established. We know that once a Member asks for a Statement, it is the property of the House, but the tradition has been that we allow the Member who requested for the Statement to be there so that he may raise subsequent questions. Some of us may not know why he raised this issue. So, I just want to plead with you that this Statement be deferred until Sen. Hassan Omar walks in.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Members of the Senate, this Chair is not privy to the reasons why Sen. Hassan Omar is not in the House and we cannot stop the proceedings of this House because a Member so decides not to be in the Chamber. Please, proceed. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am sure the Senator is on his way. In any case, he should have identified somebody to stand in for him. On 6th March, 2014, Sen. Hassan Omar requested for a Statement regarding the police raid on Masjid Musa Mosque in Mombasa County. The Senator particularly sought to be informed on the following: (1) What necessitated the raid and who ordered it? (2) Were other tactical options explored? (3) How many persons lost their lives, how many were tortured and injured? (4) How many have disappeared as a consequence of the raid, how many people were arrested during the raid? What are their names and were they held incommunicado for five days; (5) Of those arrested, how many have been charged in court and for what offences? (6) Did the raid contravene the rights of arrested persons according to Article 25 (a) and 49 (1) (c) of the Constitution which prohibits torture? (7) What are the whereabouts of Hemed Salim Mohammed who was arrested during the raid? (8) Has the Director of Public Prosecutions ordered an investigation into the circumstances of the raid including the whereabouts of Mr. Hemed, and if so, what is the finding or status of the investigations? (9) What is the Government doing to address the systematic human rights abuses in the coastal region in general and the killings of purported radical Muslim clerics in particular, with a view to curbing the alleged extremism and radicalization? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wish to state as follows. On 31st January, 2014, the Mombasa County Security Committee received information on the distribution of leaflets that were inviting Muslim youths with jihad minded ideologies to attend a jihad conference on Sunday 2nd February from 9.00 a.m., at Masjid Musa Mosque in Majengo within Mombasa City. The notice was purportedly written by Masjid Musa Organizing Committee. The leaflets bearing the notice had images of hooded people holding rifles and grenades, resembling those used by Al Shabaab or Al Qaeda terrorist groups. According to the leaflets, the following topics were to be discussed during the conference:- 1. Ihkamul-jihad 2. Nifak in the history of Jihad. 3. The judgement of Shaheed; whom to be washed and whom not to be washed. 4. Good youth in Islam. 5. The importance of worship in Mujahid; 6. Mujahid does not erase the era of judgement of Jihad 7. Features of the Khawariji Murjia 8. Union of Youth and; 9. Al-Walaa Wai-Baraa (Unity and Disunity for the sake of Allah) The following speakers were listed as facilitators:- 1. Sheikh Ismael. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. If you look at that side, there are Senators discussing along the corridors against the relevant Standing Orders. Are they in order to hold discussions in the corridors?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): They are totally out of order.

Since they have obliged and sat, I will excuse them for now, but next time, I will send them out of the Chamber, including the Acting Speaker.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for that wise ruling. When the Acting Speaker is not in the Chair, he is a Senator like any other. The raid did not contravene or violate the rights of the arrested persons as no one was tortured and neither were they restricted from communicating. Those who sustained injuries, whether fatal or otherwise did so as they fought battles with the law enforcement officers during the fracas. Further, the raid was justified and police used proportionate force to the prevailing circumstances as the suspects were armed with AK rifles, knives and stones. It should be noted that while it is the right of every citizen to enjoy their fundamental rights and freedoms as stipulated in Article 25 (a) of the Constitution, such should be enjoyed with strict and clear observance of Article 24 (d) which requires as follows: The need to ensure that the enjoyment of rights and fundamental freedoms by any individual does not prejudice the rights and freedoms of others. Enjoyment of the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Senate Majority Leader to be canvassing the subject of a missing suspect that is a subject of a live court proceeding in Mombasa? It is a matter that is in court and surely, for him to say that some subjects escaped when the matter is being canvassed in courts is

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): It is my discretion to decide on what is sub judice but on this matter, I allow him to continue.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, although it is reasonably believed that Hemed Salim Hemed was among the suspects arrested at Masjid Musa Mosque, it is also believed that he was among the several suspects who escaped. Although a habeas corpus No.7 of 2014 was filed before the High Court, Mombasa, and the hearing is still on-going, no formal report of a missing person has been filed with the police. However, pursuant to the escape of a number of suspects, an OB entry was made on how some of the suspects escaped from the custody of police officers and booked as OB No.39/3/2/2014 and an inquiry file No.1/2014 opened to investigate the circumstances of escape. The relatives are, therefore, being urged to formally report the disappearance of the said Hemed Salim Hemed. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Government will not relent in its war against radicalization of the youth or persons, with the sole purpose of perpetuating acts of terrorism on innocent Kenyans. Likewise, the Government will not allow any mosque, church, temple or any other place of worship to be used as centres of radicalization of the youth for purposes of terrorism. The Government is not aware of any systematic human rights abuses in the coastal region. However, the Government is aware of isolated incidents where Muslim clerics have been killed and each and every case is under investigation on its own merit and once completed, appropriate action will be taken against whoever is found culpable of such killings. Lastly, the Government is employing the following measures that are aimed at addressing extremism and radicalization in Kenya:- (1) SUPKEM, NAMLEF, KEMNAK (The Kenya Muslim Advisory Council) and other Muslim organizations have been encouraged to unite and work for the common good of the Muslims. This will deny the extremists the opportunity to continue capitalizing on the disunity that was existing in the past among these organizations. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. Sen. Omar Hassan!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Senate Majority Leader for that statement. However, I wish to seek further clarifications from him. First, I want the Senate Majority Leader to make clear to the Government that Muslims and Muslim leaders are not against the fight against terrorism. Muslims and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Omar, the tradition is to ask one question. I have given you the latitude.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, can I finalise?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Already, you have asked six questions. Can you, please, finalise?

Okay, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The last one; within the responses given by the Senate Majority Leader, he has indicated that the Government was not aware of any systematic human rights violations within the Coast, northern Kenya or in other areas of this country. Is the Government aware that they commissioned a committee headed by Eng. Sharawe to address some of the transgressions against Muslims across the country? The committee provided factual reports on the transgressions that were metted out at the Coast and other places. This ranged from marginalization, citizenship rights, land grabbing and so on. An ignorant Government is a dangerous one.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Hassan! We do not have an ignorant Government in Kenya. Senate Majority Leader, you can reply. Those were quite a number of questions.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for reminding Sen. Hasasn Omar that this House is not a campaign platform. The things he said---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Can you answer the questions?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will take your order, but he has heard it. We will not---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Yes, Sen. Omar, what is it? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, while he listens to you, the Senate Majority Leader has made another allegation but the whole point was to hear it. I think he should withdraw it totally.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Omar, I would advise that you sit and listen to your questions being answered. Proceed, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have listened to the issues that have been raised by Sen. Omar in response to the statement. I did not hear whether there was a single issue that raised the need for clarification. But I just want to say that what we have stated here is factual. The fact that some of the things have not been proven does not mean that the Government should not issue a statement. That is why a statement was required. The only way these statements, some of which we have read here can be countered is through the court process if some of them, for example, are proven not to exist. On the issue of whether the security agencies knew of this conference, and why they should not have dealt with it differently, this statement has clearly said that, in fact, they cancelled the conference and advised the youth not to attend. There is the freedom of association. Again, they hoped that through this ban and cancellation, the youth would not attend. The police only moved in when the organizers and participants insisted. A proclamation was made outside for an amicable resolution, but instead the police were met with fire from the building. So, the extremity of the operation was demanded by the circumstances of this particular occasion. Finally, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, is to say that the issue of human rights violations is a big challenge in this country. This also includes historical injustices and marginalization. It is true that, perhaps, in the coastal region, that is one area where they have had issues. But there are also other parts of this country, North Eastern, for example, with issues. These issues can be collectively tackled as a country and in the spirit of reforming our past and building a more prosperous and happy future as a united country. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what happened in Mombasa was very unfortunate. It is not acceptable under Christianity and Islam. The Government must be encouraged to be in control. Can the Senate Majority Leader clarify whether the Government is aware that some of the sheikhs who attempt to radicalize our children at the Coast come from Tanzania? If that is the case, what is the Government doing at a Government to Government level to take control of this menace? Finally, as a preemptive measure, is the Government considering doing an audit of all the preachers at the Coast, so as to weed out the fake sheikhs who hide under Islam to visit violence and terrorism on our people at the Coast?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Let us take a few more questions, then the Senate Majority Leader will respond to them.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank the Senate Majority Leader for the statement he has just given. I want to also take this opportunity to commend the Government for the action they took yesterday in terms of arresting a serious security The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to seek clarification from the Senate Majority Leader especially on the issue of the systematic killing of the Muslim clerics. I am aware that six clerics from Kwale County were, in fact, assassinated---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Omar. We want to listen to that question.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, more than six clerics from Kwale County were systematically assassinated, one after another---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. May I seek clarification from the Chair? In the tradition of Parliament, we are not allowed to cheer, clap or laugh when a point is being made. The only appreciation available is what Sen. Hassan has been doing, thumping his feet. Is there any other alternative way of appreciating a point being made other than by thumping your feet? If we stand up and say: “Hooray” it will be out of order.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Wetangula. Look at Standing Order No.110 (1) (e) which says:- “Conduct is grossly disorderly if the Senator concerned- (e) otherwise abuses his or her privileges;” You are out of order if you abuse your privileges. Continue, Sen. Boy Juma Boy. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in the statement, I did not hear the Senate Majority Leader address the issue of the systematic killings of the clerics. He just dwelt on the Masjid Musa issue. Could he clarify on that issue?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Yes, Sen. Wetangula, what is it?

I also want to seek a clarification. The harassment, profiling and killing of Muslim clerics is, in fact, not a matter that has started with the Jubilee regime. It is something that has been ongoing and is systematic in this country. While we must fight extremism, intolerance and unhelpful radicalism in all their forms and manifestation, could the respondent tell this House and give us an assurance, that even where offending clerics are identified, they will be subjected to due process as provided for under the Constitution other than being eliminated in a Kamikaze style by either the state, stage agents or non-state actors with the complicity of the state?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Last question, Sen. (Dr.) Kuti.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to seek a clarification from the Senate Majority Leader. The issue of fanaticism and any form of extremism is almost taking root especially among the young people of this country. Although it is pronounced in certain areas, this matter is becoming a real challenge. It is a national disaster in the making. Is the Government fully aware of the extent of this problem? If so, what measures are being put in place to counter radicalism in this country especially among the young people? This issue is affecting the whole country.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I am told the news media has problems in recording. I advise that you use the Dispatch Box for all communications.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to start with the final question which has been raised by the Senator for Isiolo County. Yes, the Government is aware of the grave problem that our nation is facing especially with regard to radicalization of our young people. We are witnesses of what happened a few months ago in September. We have just been told and we have seen in the Press just last week, how the police were able to prevent a very serious terrorist attack. So, the Government is aware and is taking these matters seriously. I have outlined nearly 20 measures and strategies that the Government is using to make sure that it deals with this problem. The Government welcomes additional ideas on how to tackle this problem because it is not a problem of the Government, it is a problem facing our nation. I am aware that the President intends, very shortly, to call the nation to a national conference to discuss the issue of insecurity. This is one of the challenges where, really, blame games will not help anybody. When we lose lives, those lives are not lost along political lines. Nobody really gains from these kinds of attacks. I continue urging our country---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it, Sen. Abdirahman? Please use the microphone at the Dispatch Box. The Press are not able to record. That is why I advised all the Members to use the Dispatch Box.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this Government is interestingly becoming one of national dialogue all the time. About the pay cuts, they were talking about a salary dialogue. For every small item, they call for dialogue. Security matters are very sensitive and you do not have to tell the villager and the national people to come and attend a national conference to be able to handle the national crisis that we face. Is the Senate Majority Leader really in order to tell us that the solution to our problem is actually a national delegates’ conference all the time? We are not at Bomas anymore!

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank the Senator for Wajir County for his concern. But every Government has its own style of doing things. Maybe, hopefully, future Governments will do things differently. In Jubilee, we believe that national problems, especially those that are longstanding, historical and entrenched, require the participation of everybody, including what the Senator for Wajir is using in a derogatory manner and calling them villagers. These are citizens of our country. They have ideas on how some of these things can be tackled. We believe in that. Going forward, we also want to see the opposition, trade unions and everybody taking part. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with regard to the other questions that were raised, I want to accept that I am informed that the Government is aware that some of the challenges in terms of the radicalization are emanating from people who are not Kenyans. I do not want to use a particular nationality. But the information that the Government has is to the effect that the reasons which have been advanced, and we are not sure whether this is the correct position - our Muslim brothers and sisters can tell us if this is true - the Government has information to the effect that there is a certain level of spiritual leadership which is known as Mufti. The information we have is that in Kenya, we do not have that kind of Mufti leadership, spiritual leadership. So, most of the people who come from other countries come in as Muftis, which is high level spiritual leadership. They use that as an entry point. Perhaps this is a dialogue that needs to be discussed within the Islamic fraternity because if we are able to create our own Mufti system, which I am told is very superior religious authority, then that can help us. These are some of the things the Government is trying to put in place to ensure that our country is safe for ourselves, our children and even people who visit us. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, very quickly on the list of preachers, the Government will be very careful not to profile preachers and start identifying them. But the belief within Government is that these things can be best done by the Muslim fraternity itself. They are the best to tell us the real preachers, those who are not genuine and those who are a threat to our nation. Again, we are aware of this. Finally, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on the issue of the systematic killings, I want to say two things; one, not just Muslim clerics have been killed in Mombasa but there were reports of Christian clerics. One incident was at the North Coast, some place in Mtwapa and another one in Kwale and other clerics were maimed. This is a problem that is not entirely Muslim but the reason why the statement did not dwell much on that is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale? You have not stood up for that. Do you still want to proceed?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. Please take your seat. To my understanding, the Senate Majority Leader actually addressed that issue. He indicated the fact that there are preachers from other countries. Maybe he knows more than you do. Let that matter rest at that.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. While the Senate Majority Leader has accepted that there is a systematic killing of clerics either from the Muslim---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Can you come to the Dispatch Box?

Some of these microphones are not working.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! I have not been given that information by the technical team. Proceed, Sen. Boy Juma Boy.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, now that the Senate Majority Leader has accepted in his own words that he is aware of the killings of the Muslim and Christian clerics, am I in order to seek further clarification from him on why is that systematic killing of the clerics going on and what does the Government have to say about it?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have a further clarification. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Omar Hassan, you will be the last.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We want to find a solution to this problem. We would appreciate if the Senate Majority Leader could, in his clarification, give responses to some of the queries that we raised. In the case of the systematic killings of clerics in Mombasa, why have there been no arrests?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Billow! You rose on a point of order, but have asked a question.

My apologies, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is the Senate Majority Leader in order not to address some of the key issues like: What action has the Government taken in respect of all those killings related to the police transgressions? He needs to respond to the clarification that was sought.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): That is better now. Senate Majority Leader, proceed.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Let us allow the Senate Majority Leader to dispose of the points of order first. Hon. Senators, you can now speak from your microphones. The problem is rectified.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I said that some clerics have died; both Muslim and Christian clerics from the coastal region. The question that was raised by Sen. Hassan was very particular about an incident. Maybe you could give us directions because my understanding is that what the last two Senators have requested is, they are trying to seek a different statement on a different issue, which I am happy to provide. I think the consumption of this information can only help our country.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, you led them to ask you those questions. So, you must take it up and answer.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have no problem. If they can put the issues in writing I will be happy to look for answers. But what they are trying to do now is to seek different statements taking advantage of the statement by Sen. Hasasn Omar which is actually not in order.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We sought supplementary question in accordance with the Standing Orders. If the Senate Majority Leader does not have answers, he should seek a deferment of the question so that he brings comprehensive answers.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Do you need to seek deferment of the statement?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in the spirit of doing a good job, let those questions be put---

Aaah!

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): The questions are scattered. Some are asking about the preacher here, others are---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, just answer my question. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): I would rather defer the statement.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Okay. The issue is deferred to Tuesday, next week, at 2.30 p.m.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Is the point on the same issue?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): But I have deferred the matter.

I want to assist the House, if you allow me.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): On what?

On the same issue.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I have deferred it to Tuesday, next week.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you may not even defer the matter if you listen to me.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I have already deferred it.

Next statement! Sen. Kivuti, I thought you had a statement. ALLOTMENT OF MASONGALENI SETTLEMENT SCHEME

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I stand to make a statement sought by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. on the allocation of the Masongaleni Settlement Scheme.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Senators! We have very many statements. So, Sen. Kivuti, be brief.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will be very brief. Masongaleni Settlement Scheme in Kibwezi East, Makueni County, occupies an area of 30,754 acres. It was established on land purchased by the Ministry of Lands and Housing from Brook Bond Kenya Limited on 5th August, 1984 at a cost of Kshs6.2 million through the Office of the President. The scheme consists of five LR numbers; namely LRNo.11070 for 1,000 acres, LRNo.23269 for 1,600 acres, LRNo.5903 of 2,000 acres, LRNo.2949 of 2, 219 acres and LRNo.11515 for 5,935 acres. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You can table the list.

Are there any questions? Yes Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the chairperson---

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Senators! That exchange is not acceptable. This is a matter of learning. Table the information then you will be given a copy.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is fair that I say that the Chairperson had offered another copy.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Kivuti, could you give a copy of the statement you laid on the Table to Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.?

Have you tabled the statement?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Kivuti, could you hand over the extra copy.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that file has more papers than my file.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order. That is the file you tabled. It belongs to the House. So, he has the right to look at all your secrets. Proceed, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek several clarifications on this statement. The purpose for which this Masongaleni Settlement Scheme was done was to resettle residents of Kibwezi and Kyulu Hills who had been evicted from the forest because they were interfering with the said forest the same way the Government had resettled the people who were evicted from Embobut and Mau forests. In the list that has been tabled before the Senate, we have individuals and Government officials who have been given more than 100 acres who were not evictees of Kyulu Hills. Out of the 1774 beneficiaries, the 93 people who have titles were also not people who were evicted from Kyulu Hills. The people who have managed to pay for these titles are also not the people who were evicted. The people who were evicted do not have titles. This land was bought by the Government of Kenya to resettle them. They do not have titles because the Government now says they must pay for the titles. Could the Chairperson clarify why these people of Makueni County are being discriminated whereas the Government has already purchased land using tax payers’ money? They are now being told to pay back to the Government so that they will be resettled. Secondly, could the Government clarify that out of 1774 beneficiaries who were identified more than 20 years ago, whether these are still the beneficiaries who are still on the ground. The information I have is that 75 per cent of these people are deceased. The Government, through the Chairman, should clarify why we still have a body called the Settlement Fund Trustee and the reason it is demanding money from tax payers. Thirdly, in the statement the chairperson has said that there was a presidential directive where the allocations had been nullified. But in the list given here those Government officials are still there and as I have said, have more than 100 acres when The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I quite appreciate the concerns of my colleague the Senator for Makueni County. I wish he could listen to me because I am answering his questions. Whereas it may be true that there has been in the past malpractices by Government officers in grabbing land, this is not something new to us. Before we got the new Constitution, we set a precedent of setting up a new land reform programme which saw us having a National Land Commission (NLC).

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, please, allow Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. to listen. I will be very annoyed if wrong questions are asked.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was talking about the precedent of how to curb land grabbing. I have also looked at that list. Even if we look at the list of land ownership in Kenya we have public servants who own land, sometimes I would say, illegally. But we have come a long way in formulating the land policy in Kenya. That is why today we have the NLC which is tasked to reform some of these ills. Having said that, I wish to note that; the issue of SFT is in law. You cannot say that you cannot pay Government fees which are in law the same way you pay some fees when you want a title deed or for any other services from Government. In a nutshell, I do not want to say that we can cancel the allocation which was done. My colleague agrees that it was done actually more than 20 years ago and those people have the allotment letters. I do not think we have reached the stage of revoking land allotment letters and title deeds. Thank you.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is a national shame. The people who were given land and who posed as deserving squatters, included former Permanent Secretary (PS) S.M. Mbova, hon. Mulu Mutisya, Maj. C.M. Mwanzia, Sergeant Stephen Musyoka, Sergeant Kenneth Nzuki, Sergeant Thomas Mutuku Makete, Corporal J.K. Nzenge, Lt. Col. J.M. Kilela, Maj. F.M. Nguyi, Maj. E.M. Matibo, Maj. P.M. Mummo and Maj. Josphat Kavisi. Whether it was 20 years ago or two days ago, this is land. Whether those people are dead or alive, they have administrators of that property. Could the Chairperson come and make an undertaking that the Government will revoke those allocations and many others because this is unjustifiable wealth that some Kenyans like brandishing that they are successful when they are nothing, but just thieves of public property that is meant for the poor.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! The Standing Orders prohibit you from abusing the public on the Floor of the House. If you want me to quote for you the relevant Standing Order, I will do so. In any case Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, if I asked you to substantiate the ability the citizens of the people you have just mentioned, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not wish to enter into an altercation with the Chair, but I am simply quoting from the list that was tabled and those are highly positioned---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I am only trying to advise you to be careful in soiling a good question.

Most obliged, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I would like to replace the word “thief” with the words “undeserving Kenyans”.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is fair that I read one of the documents that the Chair has provided to this Senate because he has said that the charges that this settlers are being asked to pay are for Government title deeds, et cetera. The letter dated 14th November, 1990 is clear that these settlers are being asked to pay Kshs600 per acre for what is called buying land, planning, demarcating, provision of basic infrastructure, et cetera . Now if the policy of Government was to settle these people, why would the Government then ask them to pay for land which the Government has already purchased to settle them?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, while I sympathize with the sentiments expressed by my brother Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, it would be very difficult for the Chair of the Committee on Agriculture, Land and Natural Resources to go and nullify title deeds in this country. What I would like to pose here is that the mechanisms we have for nullification of title deeds are quite wide. Right now, I have not enumerated all the channels that one needs to go through, including but not limited to substantiating and proof of the un-deservedness of any person having title deed to land in Kenya. I would like to state here that it is not just because so and so who was given a piece of land is an officer of Government and, therefore, it should be repossessed. With regard to the cost of the services---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. With due respect to the Chairperson, he is not even able to answer the question the way it was put by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. It is not about nullification of title deeds at this stage, but it is to ascertain whether actually, these were deserving cases so that the Government can institute some corrective measures. Is the Chairperson in order not to address the question the way it was asked because he is not taking us anywhere?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is the Chair of the Committee in order to mislead the House by saying that you have to establish the un-deservedness when it is very clear that anybody holding a rank of a Lieutenant Colonel or a Major, people in well paying State jobs, cannot go and queue and receive land meant for helpless squatters? They can access credit. They have salaries and they are well positioned Kenyans. Is the Chairperson in order to attempt to whitewash what looks like a fraud? We are not blaming it on him. We are saying that this is a fraudulent transaction and the Committee has a duty to advise the Chairman of the NLC to look into it and revoke the title deeds if they were obtained by fraud and misrepresentation. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I wonder whether the Chairman is in order to fail to address the concerns which are being raised by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. There were poor Kenyans who were living in a certain area and they were removed. They did not have food or sufurias, and did not have anywhere to go. Then all of a sudden, the Government turns around and tells those poor people to pay some money before they are resettled. You rob from the poor---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Point noted.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, is the Chair in order to find it extremely difficult to address that issue? When we talk about the injustices on matters of land in this country we are told that we are treading on dangerous grounds. God hear this: Kenyans have suffered enough, please, come down and help this country!

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): If you remember the point of order by Sen. Abdirahman, he showed concern on the inability of the Chairperson to answer questions as they were put to him. Maybe you are loading him too much. Let him answer the few that have been asked and then I will give you an opportunity to ask him more.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. In light of the weighty matters being canvassed here, would I be in order to suggest that this matter be referred to the Senate Committee on Agriculture, Land and Natural Resources and ask them to interrogate the matter and bring a comprehensive report to this House?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): It is so ordered! I do not think the Chairperson is answering the questions to the satisfaction of the House. Let us have the Committee look at this issue.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have one more Statement and maybe this Statement might touch on part of what Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. is concerned about. It is a very short one; only a half a page.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Kivuti. If you are convinced that what you are about to raise will again open a pandora’s box and you suffer the same consequences, please, save the dignity of this House and raise that when you come with the other Statement.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is about district boundaries so---

Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You are arguing with the Chair. Have a seat.

I am sorry, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. STATE OF MOLO-OLENGURUONE ROAD

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the Chairperson of the Committee on Energy, Roads and Transport, I wish to make quick responses to questions that were raised in this House. On 11th March, 2014, Sen. Chelule requested for a Statement regarding the state of Molo-Olenguruone Road. She in particular wanted to know why the construction of the road has taken so long considering that the road is only 54.5 kilometres long. Secondly, she wanted to know why there has been change of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): No. We have to dispose of the first one.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am happy to really know that the Committee sat down and has come up with the reasons this road has not been completed. It is very unfortunate that today over 80,000 potential farmers from the whole of Kuresoi are suffering because of the under-funding of that road. I am happy to receive the report so that I am in a position now to make further interrogation. I appreciate the answer given by the Committee on this Statement.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wish to seek further clarification as to who is to blame when you talk of under-funding of construction of a road because I have a similar problem in Kirinyaga County. There is road from Kutus to Kerugoya, passing through Kagumo and then Karatina. Do we blame the contractor or the Government for under-funding? What should happen to the residents who are supposed to use that road?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is really regrettable. The Ministry responsible for roads makes a budget and they say: We require so much money for this project. Unfortunately because of the financing challenges and the competing interests, Treasury is not able to allocate the amount requested by the Ministry in charge of roads. So, the problem really is elsewhere. It is with the Treasury and not the people in charge of the roads.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I seek from you some guidance on this answer. I feel that this is something that we are going to be responding to in a similar The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You will be completely out of order because the hon. Questioner showed satisfaction with the answer so delivered to this House. If you think the matter is of that magnitude and importance, you are at liberty to seek a Statement from the same Chairperson.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am not satisfied with the answer given. This is not the kind of answer that I expected to get from the Committee. I am talking on behalf of very many people from Kuresoi; the dairy and potato farmers who are really suffering. I do not think I am ready to take back this answer to them; that the Government under-estimated funding to this road. I want to request the Committee to give me a satisfactory answer to this Statement.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I was just looking at the able Chairperson whom we know at one time was the Minister in the same Ministry and he worked with the officers who I believe are giving those answers. The whole country is suffering with regard to infrastructure when it comes to the issue of maintenance of roads. Quite a number of questions have been asked. I remember last year I raised a query with regard to Road D523 which runs from Isinya to Kiserian, but the session ended before I got the answer. I came to learn that, that road had been given about Kshs400 million which was exhausted, only to leave it without the tarmac. I think that many of you know that road. A total of Kshs400 million of taxpayers’ money had been used, just for a few contractors to seal potholes and remove the entire tarmac in one of the sections. When will this road be done? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, about two months ago, there was a major demonstration and we had even to call the Director General of the Kenya Rural Roads Authority (KeRRA). He came and assured the residents that by 15th of this month---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Mositet, please, be brief. Try to summarize.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what I am trying to suggest is that the Committee needs to be very serious and maybe call the Cabinet Secretary of that Ministry, because it is a big cancer. In the last two years or so, there was booming business in Namanga Town. Right now, whenever it rains, there is flooding. Just the other day floods swept about ten children simply because of the mess created by the contractors who had been awarded the contract by the Ministry. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Committee needs to have a meeting with the Cabinet Secretary in the Ministry of Roads and Infrastructure and really know what the problem is, because I believe that there is a major problem.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well! You leave the Chairperson in a very confused state. I have to look at the initial response to the request by Sen. Chelule and the reaction of the House and, thereafter, Sen. Chelule’s reaction. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I agree with the position that you have advised, but I would say that this matter, perhaps, goes beyond even the mandate of this Committee. The truth of the matter is that the Ministry in charge of roads makes a budget, which is agreed upon by everybody. Unfortunately, at the time of releasing funds, sufficient funds are not available to meet the requirements of that budget. So, it is really a matter which will involve other Committees of this House, including the Budget Committee, Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs and so on, so that emphasis can be given to the issue of providing sufficient funds in accordance with what has been budgeted for from the very beginning. That is the only way that we can move ahead and complete projects which have been planned.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Would it not be in order for the Chairman and the Committee to first of all, fast track the roads which have already stalled, like the one in Kerugoya, instead of embarking on the new structures?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Karaba, I would not want to go that way, because the Committee will really not know the head or tail of everybody or what is in everybody’s mind. It is prudent for you, as a Senator, to be specific on your questions, so that an answer can be given for that particular issue. Otherwise, giving the Committee margin and interpretation of what you may have in mind is difficult. I was in that Ministry also and know the sort of question that you are bringing into the House. I decline to accept your point of order. REPAIR OF ROADS WITHIN NAROK TOWN

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the next response that I want to give is much shorter. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is in response to an issue raised by the Senator for Narok, Sen. ole Ntutu, regarding the status of roads in Narok Town. Sen. ole Ntutu wanted in particular to know the name of the contractor who was awarded the contract, the position or status of that project and what the Government is doing to ensure that the project is completed. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am sorry to inform Sen. Ntutu that the Ministry is not responsible for repair of roads within Narok Town. In fact, prior to the current organization of Government, the Urban Development Department in the Ministry of Local Government was handling all roads within major cities, towns and so on. Subsequently, roads within what was described as municipalities and cities, under Cap.265, were taken over by Kenya Urban Roads Authority (KURA). Unfortunately, Narok is not one of those towns and, therefore, the Ministry or even KURA is not responsible for roads within Narok. We are, therefore, advising that this question should The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well! It is so directed. Yes, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki. BUSINESS FOR THE WEEK COMMENCING TUESDAY, 25TH FEBRUARY, 2014

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wish to give a Statement concerning the business of the House for next week, pursuant to Standing Order No.45. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on Tuesday, the Rules and Business Committee will meet to schedule the business of next week. On the same day in the afternoon, the Senate will continue with the business that will not be concluded in today’s Order Paper, in addition to the Motion by Sen. David Musila, urging the national Government to take immediate measures to release all certificates held by heads of secondary schools since 2007 and ensure that no head of a school, person or institution continues to withhold KCSE certificates. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on Wednesday 26th March, 2014, the Senate will continue with the business not concluded on Tuesday and consider any other business scheduled by the Rules and Business Committee, including the introduction of the following Motions by:- (1) Sen. (Prof.) John Lonyangapuo, calling on the national Government to inculcate and institutionalize research in all learning institutions. (2) Sen. (Prof.) Wilfred Lesan, urging the national Government to provide fibre optic connectivity to referral, Level 4 and Level 5 hospitals in all counties. (3) Sen. (Prof.) John Lonyangapuo, urging the national Government to institutionalize and mainstream policies to support open and distance learning, through the development of an effective regulatory and legal framework for open and distance learning and establish a national university, dedicated to open and distance learning. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Article 132(1)(b) of the Constitution of Kenya, His Excellency President Uhuru Kenyatta has requested to address a Special Sitting of Parliament in the afternoon on Thursday 27th March, 2014. After consultations, the Speakers of the two Houses of Parliament have acceded to the request to convene a Special Sitting of Parliament to hear the address by His Excellency the President. Preparations for a Joint Sitting of Parliament on Thursday 27th March, 2014, at 2.30 p.m., in the National Assembly Chambers, Main Parliament Buildings are underway. All hon. Senators are invited to the Joint Sitting. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I hereby lay this Statement on the Table of this House.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to request a Statement from the Ministry of Education, specifically the Kenya National Examination Council (KNEC). Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, since 2011, we have had challenges with secondary school exams being cancelled due to the word “collusion.” An example is Karinge Boys in West Pokot that obtained a mean grade of 9.2, making it the second best in the district schools countrywide in 2012. The same school did exams in 2013 and got straight As in mathematics, but the KNEC decided to say that there was collusion. Hence, they were given Ys and, therefore, had to repeat. The same challenge is now with Maranda High School. In 2013, 432 boys sat for exams and 292 of them got As. The boys with straight As were 136. Seven of them were among the top ten students. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would want a clarification from the KNEC, why they decided not to rank the school because 23 boys, who were doing the computer subject colluded. Why is the school being penalized because of computer studies, which is an optional subject? How come the KNEC has moved on to allow the 23 boys to repeat, yet they know very well that there is a policy that, indeed, if there are any irregularities they are supposed to stay for three years before they repeat the same subject? Why have they not apologized to the school and the 409 parents who today are still in pain and wondering what really happened to the school? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, since this was a practical paper, how then will Kenyans understand that it is not the students who colluded, but there was confusion of names? This is because the KNEC is claiming that there was confusion within the diskettes and, therefore, the names were different. Lastly, why did the examiners not raise the issue with the school, instead of waiting for the results to be announced and then penalize the school?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Where is the Chair of Education Committee? Any Member of the Committee?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am responding on behalf of the former chairman who has just left. We are yet to elect a chairman but we shall do that on Wednesday. The process takes a bit long---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): The question has been directed to the Committee. So, are you ready?

We are not ready because the chairman has not been elected. In two or three weeks, the Committee will sit---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): The instructions from this Chair were that committees were supposed to elect their chairs within two weeks from last week. One week has already elapsed and there is only one week to go. All you have to tell us is that you will bring the answer in a week’s time or two weeks but not more than that.

Two weeks then.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for allowing me to request for this Statement from the Chairman of the Committee on Energy. The House will recall that less than two weeks ago, this Committee brought here a report which we all commended, contributed to and approved. Among other things in that report was the high regard in which the Committee held the managing director of Geothermal Development Corporation (GDC). It is unfortunate that emerging administrative and governance issues at GDC are forcing me to request the Chair to clarify the following:- Could he clarify that the new chairman at the GDC intends to drop Dr. Simiyu, the Managing Director, who was singled out as most qualified and most competent by a committee of this House? Secondly, could he clarify whether the same new chairman is under the influence from a highly connected senior politician in this country to ensure that Simiyu is removed? Could he clarify that regional and ethnic consideration are now being given precedence over the professional competence of Dr. Simiyu?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, the new Standing Order No.94 says that a Senator shall be responsible for the accuracy of facts if a Senator alleges to be true and may be required to substantiate such facts instantly. You have talked of a highly placed individual in this country and there is only one who is very highly placed.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for purposes of record, when I said “highly connected”, I did not refer to the President or the Deputy President by that meaning. If anything, that senior politician is maybe connected to those ones or some other high politician.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well, that is better now.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Yes, Sen. Wetangula.

As a matter of clarity, do I understand the Chair to direct the House that anytime we use the phrase “highly placed” it becomes a no-go zone and it refers to the Head of State? If anybody wants to refer to the Head of State, he will say “Head of State”. A highly placed person could even be the Speaker of this House where you are sitting or even the Clerk of this House; it could be a Senator and so on. All those are highly placed persons.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Thank you for that clarification, Sen. Wetangula.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in the absence of the Chair of the Committee on Energy, Roads and Transportation, I wish to say that I have listened to Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, the Senator for Kakamega and the matters he has raised are indeed matters of concern and we will treat them as urgent. We will try and bring a report by Wednesday.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it, Sen. Muthama?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Senator has indicated that in the absence of the chairman – I think in the current Standing Orders, we only have the Committee on Energy. It is delinked from Transportation. The transport docket is with roads. That is for correction purposes for the sake of the HANSARD record.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): He stands corrected.

Yes, that is correct. In the absence of the Chair for the Committee on Energy, I wish to state that we will try and get a response to Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale’s concerns by Wednesday next week.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Yes, your Committee was not affected by the changes. So, one week is okay. Next Order!

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Who was on the Floor? Sen. G. G. Kariuki was on the Floor of the House and he has six minutes. Proceed.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what I was going to say is that I was going to congratulate our friend. First, this Motion is very clear because it is urging the national Government to prepare a comprehensive programme where the elderly would be getting their dues or support from the national Government or any other quarter which will be accepted by the national policy. These people are not so many. In this country, the people who are 60 years and above are estimated to be about 1.2 million. I think 1.2 million are not so many for this nation to sit down and to decide to give them The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order. Which census are you referring to of 48 million people?

We are referring to the census of July, 2014.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I advise that you recheck your information.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is over 45 million.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Wetangula can inform you on the actual figures?

I do not think there is need for any information. I avoided going into details because I do not have the time. I said the population is about 45 million people. I have the correct figure. Out of the 45 million, 17 million are destitute and poor people who need the support of this nation. Those are not elderly people. Here, we are specifically dealing with the old people. The old people can be helped because they are not many. The Government has attempted – I am not speaking for the Government but quoting what is in the record – out of all the constituencies we have in this country, we are given over Kshs4 billion to give to the poor. That shows that the Government has goodwill to support the poor people in our society. Therefore, it is not correct to say that the Government has neglected these people because the county governments have more money or people who are poor and who expect to be supported by the county governments. As I said yesterday, what we need to do is not just a comprehensive programme but a Sessional Paper that will be readily available for this House to debate so that we give this country a comprehensive progress statement on the future of the elderly people. Traditionally or according to our society, our people; men and women, would want to be supported while at their homes and not in a bondage house where they will think that they are being thrown away by their families. Traditionally, no one would want to leave their families to go and be caged in a place away from their home. Therefore, I will not support any idea that --- Eventually, the whole truth is that we will have to accommodate these people many years to come when the traditional norms will not allow them to be away. I support.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to thank you for this opportunity. I rise to move an amendment to this Motion. Before I do so, it is important for me to inform the House that I have consulted the Mover of the Motion about my amendment. I think he has given consent and has no problem with it. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, the Motion be amended by deleting the words “such as small scale residential homes in each county” appearing in the second last line. Therefore, the Motion, as amended, will read as follows: The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I beg to second this amendment. I congratulate Sen. Khaniri for pointing out that housing elderly people is a very noble approach. Our African culture, network and social structure should be encouraged so that the elderly live among their families. They should be around other elderly people who will play the ball game with them and participate in church, mosque and school activities and reduce their isolation and loneliness that are associated with placing elderly people in homes which has a very negative impact on them.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support this amendment because when you house elderly people, while it is a good idea, it is almost similar to caging. The first-lane life of urbanization has made young people not to be responsible for their parents, especially The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Sen. Kuti! I was not the Mover of the Motion. The Mover of the Motion was Sen. Lesan.

Sorry about that, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. You look alike. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this increasing number of elderly people needs to be planned for. We need to plan now and make sure that they are kept within organized community structures. The major problem that most of these people face is poverty. The poverty level in this country is high and being marginalized because of their age, they will be faced more with hunger, disease and all the challenges that face poor people. But their elderly nature also exposes them to diseases like high blood pressure and diabetes. These are common among the elderly. Therefore, they will also need improved medical care made available for them. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when the elderly get out of active life, they become lonely and depressed. On top of the hunger and other challenges that they have, the fact that they have fallen out of their social activities, makes them very much exposed to early death. You will realize that many people who retire, especially from active Government or political life, die faster than those who actually have been surviving among the communities. This is because when they retire, they lose that active life and network among the communities. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, since this amendment seems to have the support of House, it is my kind request that the question be put and we go to the main Motion.

Is that the feeling of the House?

Yes!

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Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to say a few words regarding this Motion. I actually support it and wish to commend the Mover for having remembered something in our society which can easily be forgotten. It is very easy to forget the old people. Like one speaker said, we are all headed there and it is very easy also to be forgotten. So, it is better to remember people when you are there to remember them, especially as a House which is in a position to do something about it. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, part of the problem that we are seeing now and what gives rise to the need or concern of the Mover and many of us, is the breakdown in the family structure. In the so-called olden days, the African family was always an extended family, such that even if an old person, be they a man or lady, did not have his or her own children, there was always somebody to take care of them. What has changed that, in my observation, is education. Education is very good in one way, but it has also brought other challenges which we now must start addressing as a nation, starting with the Senate. We need to mind the affairs of the counties where these people are. I believe that the Mover of the Motion does not mean just old people, but actually the poor old people. People who are old and have means can mind their own affairs or their families can do that. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, education in one way or another brought the breakdown of the family structure. This is because young people who go through education easily get employment away from home. In Nairobi City, for example, we say that we have three or four million people, but if you look at the identity cards, they indicate that almost everyone comes from upcountry. But most people do not go upcountry. They actually settle in Nairobi City or any other urban area and earn their living. But most of the people that we are concerned about are actually in the rural areas. Even when their children or grandchildren are merciful enough to send stipends, perhaps, they just send some little money, but do not bother much about the social welfare of the old and so on. So, this Motion is calling upon the Government to institute structures, such that, as a community, we are able to take care of the old people. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is worth noting and commending the Government also that it has found it necessary or worthy to set aside some money to give to the old persons. The only challenge is the way the old persons are identified to benefit from the old persons’ fund. The last time I checked, they were being given Kshs2,000 per month, but there is a lot of outcry. I do not know about the other counties, but certainly where I come from, in Nyandarua County, there is an outcry in almost every area that I go. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, whereas a few of them deserve to benefit, you will find that there are many names of people who are prominent, maybe one has a shop and going on with business, but their names are on the list. So, he is among those who are supposed to get Kshs2,000. I believe the structures, which the Mover has in mind, can curb these practices. When this House came up with this idea through Sen. Sang to have a body to manage the affairs of the county generally so that there is a forum through which when such issues come up, discussions can take place and the leadership can take action. What happens is that people in the locality just see people in the list but there is no forum where such issues are discussed. It is through such forums that we get to know that a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

What is your point of order?

My point of order is that, with all due respect, is the well experienced Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki in order to mislead this House by saying that if you have your national identity card whose purpose is to identify you as a Kenyan, what he is saying is that if you come from Nyandarua and you are living in Mombasa, you cannot be accommodated in Mombasa. Is he order to mislead and demean the national identity card to make it an unrecognizable document nationally?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to request the hon. Senator to listen because I will repeat. All I am saying is that if Sen. Muthama lives in Nairobi now but his identity card does not read Nairobi - I challenge him to come here and show me - Chances are it says Machakos. What I am saying here is that many people who are in a class which Sen. (Prof.) Lesan has in mind would have been working away from where they come from which is identified through the identity card. If that person ends up staying in Nairobi, for example, even if the Government has to give him the Kshs2,000, he cannot live here. It would be very difficult. That individual will most probably find it easier to go to the rural areas where it is cheaper and easier to manage his life. That is why I am saying that you could very well go there and find that you do not have anybody. That is why you now need to get a stipend.

Order, Senator. Your time is up.

Bw. Spika wa Muda, nasimama kuchangia Hoja hii tukitumaini kwamba yale ambayo tunazungumza hapa yataweza kusaidia taifa nzima. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Muda wako umekiwsha!

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I stand to support this Motion and to thank Prof. Lesan for bringing this idea and Sen. Khaniri for enriching it. The people we are talking about; the elderly, are the ones who looked after us. We are talking about Kenyans who built this country to the point that we are today. We have teachers, farmers, farm workers in Trans Nzoia and elsewhere who have fed this nation for very many years and our armed forces personnel who have risked their lives to secure this country both from within and without. We are talking about the patriotic citizens who have stood up and are proud to be Kenyans. While our tradition in the past, and even now, demands that the youth or children should look after their ageing parents, the fact is that our social structure has changed. The youth have left homes to work elsewhere away from their parents. This also means that the youth have not had the opportunity to take care of themselves noting that there is a high degree of unemployment in this country. Therefore, any effort that the state will put in place to alleviate the suffering of the elderly will be timely and welcome. At the moment, it is very difficult and counterproductive to confine the elderly to homes. That may, in fact, hasten their departure from this world. They may see this as a way of discarding them. Despite the fact that we have advanced economically and socially, we have not done very well in taking care of the elderly and other vulnerable groups. It is worrying when you hear Sen. Muriuki saying that even deserving cases like those who are earning pensions are also queuing for stipends. It will not be a surprise The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Bwana Spika wa Muda, ningependa kuunga mkono Hoja hii. Mimi kama mkaaji wa Kilifi, Hoja hii inanihusu sana. Hawa wazee, hawafai kujengewa makao. Wazazi wetu ndio wanaofanya twende nyumbani. Kwa hivyo, nimeshukuru kwamba watakuwa nyumbani na sisi. Kila mtu ambaye ana mtu mzee nyumbani huwa anatamani kwenda nyumbani. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I want to thank Prof. Lesan for bringing this important Motion. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, all of us will grow old and so, this Motion is for all of us. I would like to urge all my colleagues, who are candidates, to start taking care of themselves now before they get there. Our Constitution recognizes and entrenches human rights. It recognizes the human rights of every person irrespective of the age and social or economic status of any person. The theory is that every person counts for something. It is that dignity of that human being that we protect. So, I am supporting this Motion because it is intended to protect the dignity of the senior members of the community – the aged. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think that there has been a lot of emphasis on the rights of women, children and the youth but we have not paid sufficient attention to the rights of the elderly in our society. If you travel to other countries, you will find that even in buses and trains, there are comfortable seats reserved for senior citizens. But in this country, everybody including a 70 or even 80 year old will be scrambling to get into a

bus or train. Nobody recognizes that we have senior citizens in this country. People like Martin Shikuku, before he passed on, was struggling like everybody else, despite having been at Lancaster House and fought for Independence. In fact, when I came to Parliament in 1992, I found Shikuku and he was protesting and saying: “These babies have come just the other day and we are earning the same salary with them, although I was in this Parliament when they were still in primary school.” Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, our society does not recognize our elderly; neither does it accord them proper dignity and respect, more so in the current age. In the old days, the elderly were respected because they were the custodians of experience and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Sen. Kiraitu! Why did you have just to refer to people from almost one region?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I gave the example of ole Ntimama, first, because he is my friend. Secondly, as you know, he is from Meru. He is not even from your community. Thirdly,--

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. History has it that ole Ntimama is from Narok. Therefore, until the Senator for Meru tells us about his biological background, we still believe that he is the leader of Maasai in Narok.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We all originated from different parts of this country. Is Sen. Karaba in order actually to refer to ole Ntimama as a person who just comes from Narok, when we know of people who came from Maasai land and now belong to the Kamba community? It is historically known, and ole Ntimama has made it very clear, that he originated from Meru. There is no crime in that. Is he in order really to mislead this House?

Sen. Muthama, I think that you are really out of order, because everyone knows that hon. ole Ntimama lives in Narok and has always represented people in Narok. He has never refused that fact.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think that Sen. Karaba needs more historical information. I can confirm for certain that Mzee ole Ntimama is a very respected Maasai elder. He has represented the Maasai community in this country for many years, but he originated from Meru and is very proud about it. Last year, I took him to Meru to show him the village that they came from and he was very happy even to support the school in that village. So, there is nothing to be ashamed of. Even some of the Europeans here originated from the United Kingdom a long time ago, but are Kenyans. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was giving a good example of an elder who should be sitting in the Senate because of his great experience and knowledge. Even in the county assemblies, there should be a percentage of seats reserved for the elderly, so that our society can have continuity. A society which just floats in the air and has no roots, is not a society worth its dream. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to support.

(Sen. Mositet)

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first of all, I want to thank Sen. (Prof.) Lesan for recognizing that the aged in our society are becoming increasingly vulnerable since so many of them face severe hardships. Many of them face very unique challenges The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

I now call upon the Mover to reply.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, before I do that, I want to give some few minutes to my colleague, Sen. Melly. I am donating some three minutes to him.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to thank Sen. (Prof.) Lesan for bringing this beautiful Motion at this time. I was wondering because the reason all these problems and issues are here today is because, apart from the Government doing its job in ensuring that it protects its people by creating a fund to enable the aged of this country enjoy a good life, as individuals we have a role to ensure that we work. When you read the book of Exodus, the Bible says that men and women are supposed to work for five days then they take a rest. What I am seeing is that there may be something that did not happen at the time when we were supposed to work and ensure that we plan for our lives so that, in future, we can pay for medical bills, live in good houses and educate our children. The reason we want to have this fund is because people did not plan at the time when they were supposed to plan. While others were working, people were busy sleeping. In as far as we want the Government to have a fund to ensure that the old enjoy life, we should also play a role as individuals. We need to identify the aged because not all the people who are above the age 75 years are needy. We should not generalize and say that we want a fund for the aged. We need to know those who are needy. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, recently, I was in Rwanda. I saw something beautiful done by the Government of Rwanda in terms of housing. A number of people in Rwanda before President Kagame came into power, were living in poverty. They had grass-thatched houses. During the rainy season, people could not sleep in their houses. They went ahead and planned. Today it is now a beautiful country. Even the old there, are able to have good shelter. Another issue is medical access. We, as leaders, have a role to play today. If the young people are not facilitated to have the National Hospital Insurance Fund (NHIF) card, in future we will say that we want to create a fund for them.

Order, Senator!

With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, you continue to reply.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first, I would like to appreciate my colleague Senators who have contributed to my first ever Motion in the Senate or anywhere else and I am really appreciating their contribution. It has become very clear from the contributions that we are doing very poorly in assisting the elderly in this country. In fact, the way we have been treating the elderly in this country, makes it a very terrible thing to get old in this country, under the current system. The care for the age is continuously becoming a challenge in this country. Therefore, we need a proper policy which we can follow in order to assist them. As it is, the circumstances are changing and, as far as we say we are Africans, there are things that we must accept. One of those things that we must accept is the changing circumstances. At the moment, we should be prepared to accept the change which is coming and which The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, very well, the Mover has now replied. I will ask Members of the Committee on Health to work with Sen. (Prof.) Lesan and come up with something that this Senate will be proud of. Standing Order No.73 shows that this Motion does not affect counties. I will then proceed to put the question for the voting of all Senators.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT aware that Article 43(1)(f) of the Constitution of Kenya states that every person has a right to education; recognizing that Vision 2030 underscores the critical role of education in Kenya’s socio-economic development; appreciating that, pursuant to Chapter 223 of the Laws of Kenya, the Government established the Board of Adult Education to coordinate adult education; concerned, however, that implementation of adult education programmes is hampered by absence of appropriate policies, including policies on recruitment, training, deployment, discipline and termination of services; the Senate calls upon the national Government to take immediate measures to develop clear policy guidelines for adult education staff recruitment, training, deployment and discipline in order to promote adult education. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have sat here many times to discuss Motions. We have had occasions to travel out to compare Kenya with other successful nations in the world. We have spent a lot of money travelling out so that we help Kenya to be ahead of other nations, especially in the region. When I talk about the region, I am referring to Africa. What is important in any country, Kenya being one of them, is the way it handles its people and its education. There are many benefits of somebody being educated. I have just contributed to a Motion that was moved by Sen. (Prof.) Lesan. In it, we discussed a lot on how we can take care of our old people. We said how if Kenyans are not educated, this can create problems. These are problems various like financing, interpreting policies and poor health. These are issues that we must address ourselves to squarely so that people in Kenya can understand what this all means. As far as I am concerned, it is only education that can lead us to the light. People who did not have enough education end up in various problems that are untold. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is the Senator in order to suggest that more than 60 per cent or more of Kenyans cannot read or write? Is that true? Could he tell us where he got the statistics from?

Sen. Karaba, could you tell us about what Sen. Karue has asked you to substantiate?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, before I came here, I had to go to various Ministries. That is what we do before we move Motions. I have figures with me. I also borrowed books and other relevant material. I can also give him these materials to refer to, if he so wishes. The material I have says 61 per cent of Kenyans are illiterate. The figures are there in data.

Sen. Karue, I think since he has booklets, you will need to ask for them and verify.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with the permission of the Speaker, I will borrow them, read them and challenge him further.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the situation we have here is regrettable. We have areas which have populations or people who cannot read or write. The largest population is in the North Eastern where 87 per cent are illiterate. Nairobi has the least, with 8 per cent. What we have here is diversity. It shows that we have different areas receiving education, but others do not access it at all. As a result of that, we have a great diversity of education accessibility. That is why this Motion calls for a policy on adult education to make sure such education reaches who were not able to access formal education at the lower levels; that is below 15 years of age. Statistics indicate that there is danger unless we have a system to take care of that. What we have here is that the Government has come up with Adult Education Programme (AEP) which caters for those who cannot afford to read, write and those that the Government can help to move from that level to the next one. It is regrettable that this is happening many years after 1948, when the charter for universal human rights was created. It is a human right for everybody to access education. Kenya is a signatory to this convention. Kenya is also a signatory to many other conventions that have come up after this one. There is the Jauntier (SP) Charter which was established in Cambodia and several other conventions that were signed. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this time to second this Motion. I would like to thank Sen. Karaba for asking me to second this very important Motion, where the Senate calls upon the national Government to take immediate measures to develop clear policy guidelines for adult education, staff recruitment, training, deployment and discipline in order to promote adult education. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as I rise to contribute to this Motion, I hope somebody will move an amendment to make it a county Motion where we will The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I support the Motion and congratulate the distinguished Senator for Kirinyaga who has been exhibiting very generous passion for education in more ways than one. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order! Sen. Wetangula, you still have ten minutes that you will be given when the House resumes. Hon. Senators, it is now time for the interruption of business. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until Tuesday, 25th March, 2014, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.