On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Abdirahman?

This is an afternoon that we have resumed this very important sitting and we observe with great seriousness that the benches on the Jubilee side are almost empty and I think business in this House precedes all other business including those of parties. I think it is important as a tradition of this House to respect the timing and business of the House. That is an observation from our side and it is good to take great exception on that.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. From where you sit, you are supposed to be blind as to the membership of our political parties. We are here as Senators and the Senate is properly constituted because it has a quorum and we can proceed.

Order, Senators. I do not know to what extent I am expected to be blind. I am only supposed to be blind in terms of instigating it but once a Member has brought it to my attention, I, definitely, acquire eyes and see. So to the extent that the numbers are limited on the other side, that is true. In fact, when I was bowing to my right hand side, I was almost wondering whether I should do it or not. As to what the Chair can do about it, I am afraid, Sen. Abdirahman, there is not much I can do. The Chair is only interested that we have a quorum when we are transacting business and you never raised the issue of quorum. So, I presume that you are satisfied that your side has the requisite quorum for us to proceed with business. I think you should not be worried because if you are the majority, then whatever business in the House will be according to your side.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. We just wanted it as an observation and you can realize how committed our team is towards the business of this House.

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Let us proceed.

Hon. Senators, I have a message to make but before I do so, I wish to welcome everybody from recess and I hope we will have a great time for this period. I wish to report to the Senate that pursuant to Standing Order No.40(3) and (5) of the Senate Standing Orders, I received the following Message from the Speaker of the National Assembly on 5th May, 2014 regarding the approval by the Assembly of the Public Procurement and Disposal (amendment) Bill, National Assembly Bill No.31 (2013) with amendments. I quote:- “Pursuant to the provision of Standing Order No.142 of the National Assembly Standing Orders, I hereby convey the following Message from the National Assembly that the Public Procurement and Disposal (Amendment) Bill, National Assembly Bill, No.31 of 2013 which was published in the Kenya Gazette Supplement No.31 of 18th October, 2013 and was passed by the National Assembly on Thursday, 24th April, 2014 in the form attached hereto and further that the National Assembly now seeks the concurrence of the Senate to the said Bill as passed by the National Assembly.”

Hon. Senators, you will notice that this message was received while the Senate was in recess and vide my letter reference Sen/Messages/Correspondence/2014/3 dated 8th May, 2014, I circulated the message to all hon. Senators, I now, therefore, direct that the Bill be read a First Time tomorrow. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the House.

The Report of the Special Committee on the proposed removal from office of the Governor of Kericho County.

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Hon. Members, after the Paper has been laid, I would like to give further directions on how we will proceed from now.

As you are aware, this is not the first time the Senate is conducting a business of this nature. We shall therefore proceed along similar lines as we have done in the past when Senators receive a similar special committee report. As in the earlier cases, the Chairperson of the Special Committee will lay the Report of the Committee first, which he has done, after which Senators will have time to peruse it. The Report will, therefore, not be debated immediately. The House will adjourn for one hour in order to allow Senators to go through the Report. We shall proceed in this manner because at the point at which the Report has been laid is not known to the House which of the two procedures provided by Section 33(6) of the County Governments Act and Standing Order No.68 (4) will be applied. The contents of the Report will determine that.

Just to refresh your memories, both Section 33(6) of the County Governments Act and Standing Order No.68 (4) provide as follows:-

If the Special Committee reports any particulars of the allegations against the Governor have not been substantiated, further proceedings shall not be taken under this section in respect of that allegation or;

If it has been substantiated, the Senate shall, after according the Governor an opportunity to be heard, vote on the impeachment charges. I hope the Clerk can confirm that the Governor is in the building. I think he has confirmed.

Consequently, after hon. Senators have had an opportunity of perusing the report of the Special Committee and its finding thereof, a Notice of Motion will be given and later a Motion moved on the Report which will be listed in a Supplementary Order which will be circulated shortly. As in earlier instances, if the Special Committee reports that any particulars of the allegations have been substantiated, the Senate will vote on each of the impeachment charges after according the Governor the opportunity to be heard.

Hon. Senators, I wish to inform you that if the Governor chooses to exercise his right to appear and be heard by the Senate, he will be heard here either by himself or his advocate in total silence and his speech shall not be followed by any question or comment. The Senate shall therefore proceed to vote on each allegation found to have been substantiated. I want to thank you and also adjourn the House for one hour.

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Hon. Senators, I have a communication to make to that effect. Having seen the Report of the Special Committee, it is clear that the House shall apply the provisions of Section 33 (6) (a) of the County Governments Act and Standing Order No.68 (4) (a) as it is the finding of the Special Committee that the allegations have not been substantiated. In these circumstances, under the County Governments Act and our own Standing Orders, we are not permitted to take any further proceedings in respect of the allegations made. However, owing to the importance of the task that this House vested in the Special Committee and to the overwhelming public interest in this matter, I will allow the Chairperson of the Special Committee to make a few remarks in respect of the assignment his Committee undertook on the instructions of the House. I would thereafter also permit a few interventions of a general nature on the Report, which comments cannot go to the merits or demerits of the findings of the Special Committee. Sen. Obure, you have not more than 30 minutes.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Khaniri? Order, Sen. Khaniri!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, had you given me the Floor?

Yes, I had given you the Floor but I have also stopped you because I need to make this point while I appreciate that maybe you have something burning. A point of order also deals with procedures and you cannot interrupt the Chair when he is communicating. Proceed, Sen. Khaniri!

My apologies, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise under the same Standing Order that you cited in your speech; that is the Standing Order that deals with the procedure of removal of a Governor; that is Standing Order No. 68(4) (a). The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise under Standing Order No.1 (i). Allow me to read it:- “In all cases where the matters are not expressly provided for by these Standing Orders or by the Standing Orders of the Senate, any procedural question shall be decided by the Speaker”.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, why I am citing this particular Standing Order is because of what you have directed; that you allow the House to ventilate to an extent. There would be no reason why you cannot do that, but I want to urge the Chair, that for the respect of the rule of law, for you to restrain yourself because Standing Order No.1 (i) is only asking you to proceed the way you are proceeding if it is not provided for but this is provided for under Standing Order No.68 (4). If then you choose to proceed that way, which Motion on the Order Paper has been tabled that then you want us to debate? On the Order Paper which is right here, there is no Motion for which Notice of Motion has been given and there is no Motion further, which provides that after that notice, that Motion be debated. However exciting and important this matter is, the Standing Orders will ask the Republic and the public to read the Report because it is now a public Report. We cannot debate it in this House.

I beg that you reverse your order.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you. I have listened to the point of order by the Senator for Vihiga, Sen. Khaniri, supported by the Senator for Kakamega, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, and I beg to differ. The purpose of the Standing Orders is not to tie this House from doing what the Constitution in the law asks us to do. I do not even think we have to go to Standing Order No.1. My own understanding of Standing order No.68 (4)(a) is that if the Committee so established finds that none of the charges have been substantiated, further proceedings shall not be taken under this section in respect of that allegation. Proceeding means that you cannot go Standing Order No.68(4) and start voting. It simply states “no further proceedings”. Secondly, it is proceedings about the allegations. So, you cannot say that once the Committee comes here and gives us a report, you cannot say anything or make any comments because these are matters of general public interest. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! You do not have to demonstrate any expressions. The Chair will give you as much opportunity as you have just been given, to say whatever you wish to tell the House.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my reading of Section 33 of the County Governments Act and Standing Order No.68 is exactly what the Senate Majority Leader has said, that the proceedings being contemplated in Section 33 and Standing Order No.68 is the proceedings against the Governor.

My understanding is that there are so many reports that are done by this House, some of which are debated for purposes of noting, like the Presidential Speech and there are others that are done for the purpose of taking action. I believe that when Section 33 talked about no further proceedings ensuing, it is in regard to what to do to the Governor as a person. We are not going to reverse the Report and we are not going to add anything to the Report. What we need to do here is basically to note and to appreciate so that for the record we know that this is what the Senate has done. So, I think that is my understanding about what exactly Section 33 of the County Governments Act is saying.

Yes, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am rising on this point of order in order to clarify further what I meant in view of the understanding by Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki. This is where experience comes in. This country remembers that after the elections of 2007, during the swearing, it became extremely difficult for us to move either forward, backwards or sideways. What saved the House on that day – you were there – was Standing Order No.1 (ii) which then referred, as you will remember, to the traditions and usages and so on. It saved the situation and the swearing-in was able to take place that day. To allow the point of order by Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki to pass, that we are not tied by these Standing Orders, it is to open the possibility that we shall never create a tradition or usages in this House.

Professorial as he is, I beg him only for today to acknowledge that he has no experience whatsoever on how Standing Orders can save a national crisis. We must treat these Standing Orders just in the same way you treat any other statute on the shelves that you teach students. I beg that you find him out of order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I depart from the point of order raised by Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki that we are not bound because we are bound and that is for sure. But my two distinguished colleagues, my “kid brother”, Sen. Khaniri and the “bull fighter”, the distinguished Senator for Kakamega are interpreting Standing Order No.68 (4) (a)---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

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I am on a point of order.

I know.

Order! There are various types of points of order. What is it, Sen. Murungi?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we know that the distinguished Senator for Bungoma is the Leader of the Minority in this House, but is he in order to belittle the Senator for Vihiga by calling him a “kid brother”?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the distinguished Senators of Vihiga and Kakamega have not complained and they really appreciate that I am a big brother figure to Sen. Khaniri. He is my kid brother and I do not think there is anything offensive about that.

The two Senators are putting a very narrow interpretation of Standing Order No.68 (4) (a). A broad interpretation of the Standing Order will tell us and inform us that further proceedings shall not be taken under this section. This means that we cannot now call the Governor and his lawyer to stand there and defend themselves against any of the allegations which the Committee has determined. But this House has the right, apart from noting the Report and approving it, we also have the right to make comments of a general nature in our duty as the protectors and defenders of devolution including Governors and counties and in the manner in which we perceive and understand the proceedings that came to this House. Without going to the merits, the matter is closed, it is fait accompli and we cannot now start saying whether Governor Chepkwony flouted the Constitution or not, the Committee has said that he did not. We cannot say whether he flouted procedural issues on procurement or not, the Committee has said that he did not. But we have a duty to make comments like you have directed on how this matter and what our duty is and so on and so forth. I can assure you that some of us have issues that we want to raise about not the conduct of that Governor or the Committee but some of these Members in relation to this matter and you must allow us to do so.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also rise to take the position taken by the Senate Majority Leader and the Senate Minority Leader. The reason why we are in this quagmire is because of the selective reading of the provisions of the law. If you read Section 33 of the County Governments Act in its entirety, then the word “proceedings” makes sense, but if you refer to the word “proceedings” in the Standing Orders in isolation to the word “proceedings” as used in Section 33, then you end up into in a lot of trouble. For example, Section 33 (1) (ii) (b) says:-

“The Governor shall continue to perform the functions of the office pending the outcome of the proceedings required by these sections”.

So, the proceedings that are contemplated are proceedings under Section 33. It is not any proceedings before the House. This is so because if you look at the provisions of Section 33, it spells out what the proceedings are. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Let me just take the last three.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I appreciate your ruling. Many reports are usually tabled in the House but, generally, even when it is for noting, a Motion normally would be moved. The tradition of the House is that there would be a Motion to note, and that would then give every Member an opportunity to debate it. Even when we are debating reports of Committees who visited some place, it is normally submitted just for the value of that discussion. But I think without a Motion, even noting that report, I do not know in what sense, even for the record of the House, unless we are contributing to your communication, it becomes a bit of a challenge. That is the observation I have. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Sen. (Dr.) Machage.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and Sen. Khaniri may have misunderstood Standing Order No.68(4)(a) because, really, all you did communicate was for the Chairperson of the Committee to make a few remarks, which could have been to thank the Committee for the good work they did, and so on. Unless in his remarks, he moved into the allegations, then you stop it or, then, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and Sen. Khaniri would have been in order, therefore, to stand with that remark. But I think it was premature; they should have left that to the discretion of the Speaker to determine whether the Chairperson is deviating from your instructions of just a remark. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Finally, Sen. Hassan Omar.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, mine is just to say that we should not be very hard on Sen. Khaniri. As he was making his point of order, his first remarks were actually acknowledging the fact that he is not a lawyer. Therefore, he knew the probability of making a mistake in his interpretation.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?

Thank you so much for indulging me, Mr. Speaker, Sir. So as to make the process tidy, because I am seeing Sen. Khaniri and a few others, in my view are in the minority, I beg that you consider the possibility of having a Motion that will read:-

“This House notes---” Or:-

“THAT, this House wants to register its appreciation---” Because as far as I am concerned, proceedings are not just on the charges and limited to the voting; when we started the exercise, even the very process of hearing was part of the proceedings. Mr. Speaker, Sir, after the proceedings of the Special Committee had been tabled, when you go to the next stage whereby you debate that report, those are proceedings. After those proceedings, when you ask the Governor to come and defend himself and voting, those are proceedings. So, the moment we discuss, we would have carried out proceedings. Could you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, consider that we do not rush and, indeed, because Sen. Orengo is answering me, if Sen. Wetangula and Sen. Orengo have issues they want to register because of the behavior of some people, a Motion can be brought so that we deal with them accordingly in the normal manner up to and including a Motion of censure on the conduct of a Member? This is the law!

Order, Senators! At least I am happy that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is ending with a bit of a smile which is not forthcoming, but it is in the process, unlike when he started.

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Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. With your indulgence, I will take a little shorter time than you directed, and I will – with your indulgence – request that we allow Senior Counsel, the Senator for Meru, Sen. Kiraitu Murungi, to brief the Members on a few issues that informed the decisions of the Committee. Hon. Senators will be aware of the Communication from the Chair on 23rd May, 2014, in which he informed the Senate that he had received correspondence from the Speaker of Kericho County Assembly regarding a Motion he had approved for impeachment of the Governor of Kericho County---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Orengo?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think the conflict is gone, so I cannot---

Proceed, Chairperson.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, hon. Senators will remember that the day after, the Senate Majority Leader brought the Motion under Section 33(b) of the County Governments Act, which led to the appointment of this Special Committee. Mr. Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the Members of the Special Committee, I thank colleagues, hon. Senators, for the confidence and trust they expressed in each one of us by electing us to serve on this Committee, whose responsibilities were not only huge and onerous, but were also constitutional in nature. I also thank you personally, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for providing us with clear guidelines in respect of the task ahead of us during your communication from the Chair on that day, Friday 23rd May, 2014. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, you have heard the Chairperson of the Committee reporting to this House that certain Members of this House and another Member or other Members of the Executive are to blame for the negative publicity that the Committee was given. Could the Chairperson substantiate?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is public knowledge, but I have addressed you separately in connection with this. What I was going to ask is that we do not understand the objectives of some of these statements; but they were interpreted as undermining the work of the Senate in exercise of their quasi-judicial function conferred on it by the Constitution. Mr. Speaker, Sir, even as the Special Committee asks you to investigate the source of these reports and to take appropriate action, I wish to assure you and the public that the Members of the Special Committee remained focused and determined to perform their task without fear or favour--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Orengo?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am afraid that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale could have been right, because when there is now reference to the report and what impacted on the Committee, then they stand the danger of actually going into the report. I would seek your guidance on this; if the Chairperson could just make general comments or comments of a general nature. Otherwise, then, Sen. Khaniri may be quite right in what he raised.

Order, Sen. Orengo! I think you are also becoming too protective. I thought I heard the Chairperson very clearly; he was talking about externalities to the report and the way the Committee was supposed to be doing its job. I think to that extent, he has not really strayed into the areas that were being warned against. So, the moment he steps there, we will deal with him at that point but I think for now he is on safe ground.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The second point I wanted to---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Musila?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I regret to interrupt my brother here, but I think Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale asked that he substantiates the statement that he made. But I have not heard anything to substantiate what he was challenged to substantiate. Could you urge the Chairperson to substantiate, because he made a statement on the Floor of the House and we would like substantiation? Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

I am afraid, Sen. Musila, the Chairperson cannot help you there. My understanding of substantiation is to the extent that you have been adversely affected. The way the Chairperson has used that – and I think it is in the public domain and it is a small issue, considering the matter before us – and in any case, the substantive one was addressed when you raised a matter yourself, Sen. Musila. I think that still informs us. Let us just proceed.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The second area of concern relates to the fact that the Special Committee observed that owing to the fact that devolution is still in the early stages in our country, the report of the Special Committee may be useful to all the 47 counties, as it may inform the counties in the discharge of their functions. The Committee, therefore, recommended that in the exercise of the Senate’s functions under Article 96(1) of the Constitution and pursuant to Standing Orders No.42 and 43 of the Senate Standing Orders, that the hon. Speaker of the Senate directs that the report of the Special Committee be transmitted by way of a message to all the 47 county assemblies and to all the 47 county governors. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. Kiraitu, I believe that you are sharing the 30 minutes that were allocated to the Chairperson.

How many minutes?

Ten minutes!

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. First, I would like to thank the House for appointing us to this important Committee. I would also like to thank my colleagues in the Special Committee. We worked very hard and thoroughly. We even worked over the weekend, including the Madaraka Day. So, I wish to thank my colleagues for doing their best to promote the integrity and name of this Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would also like to highly commend our secretariat and the legal team, who did an excellent job using the law and evidence. I would like to appeal to you to give special recognition and reward to this team, because of the excellent job that they did.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, some of the Members are commending us while others are accusing us of letting the Governor of Kericho go off the hook. Other Members are saying that they will save the Governor. I would like to confirm to you that we have not let the Governor of Kericho off the hook or saved him. Indeed, it is the Constitution and the law of Kenya which has saved the Governor or let him off the hook, and not us.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is very clear that this Committee was not motivated by any ill-will or benevolence. We just strictly did our job. I would like the House to note the language in Article 181 (a) of the Constitution. This is because the Article just says that a Governor may be removed from office of gross violation of the Constitution or any other law. So, the language is “may” and not “shall”. So, it is not mandatory. Even if the Governor is found to have grossly violated the Constitution, the Senate still has discretion, because of the language used under Article 181. So, the hands of the Senate are not tied by the language of this article.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would also like the Governors to know the nature of the impeachment process. Impeachment is a unique political process in which a political leader is tried by other political leaders for political crimes and the punishment that is meted is also a political punishment. Impeachment is supposed to punish bad Governors. The punishment that we get for bad Governors is removal from office, so that they do not continue committing harm to society from that office.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there has been a lot of debate regarding the threshold or standard of proof for impeachment. Those who are prosecuting and, indeed, the county assemblies, are prosecutors in an impeachment process. They go for a very low standard of proof. They will take something like the balance of probabilities which we see in civil cases. The Governors would want a very high standard of proof, some like what we see in the criminal cases; proof beyond reasonable doubt. But in this process, neither of those standards is applicable.

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Hon. Senators, we have canvassed the issue of whether or not there is a Motion in front of the House, and there is none. This is not a Motion for Adjournment either. So, we are just making remarks, pursuant to a ruling made by the Speaker. So, I cannot say that we are going to do it for 30 minutes, 20 minutes, 10 minutes or whatever number of minutes you want to speak. But for beginners, I am going to allow ten minutes each for people who want to speak; appreciating the earlier ruling of the Speaker both in his Communication and also in answer to the point of order that was raised by Sen. Orengo. So, we will not go to the merits of the Report. I think that, that was part of the ruling. We are going to make general remarks pursuant to the Communication from the Chair and also to your reading of the Report. If you understand that, I am sure that it is going to reduce the number of points of order that are going to be made and we are going to make some progress, so that as many people as possible are able to speak to the Report. I hope that, that is clear for now.

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Let me also join the rest of House in congratulating the Committee for job well done, within the timelines as specified in the County Governments Act.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would not take a long time. In fact, I would probably try to restrict myself to five minutes. There is a campaign out there that either the courts or some body out there should set the threshold for impeachment. Now, I find that to be a very dangerous statement which must be countered. So far, I think that the Senate has behaved and conducted itself very well in these proceedings, to show that justice will be done in accordance with the law. Nothing but the law will be applied in dealing with impeachment cases as they come to the Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I heard the Chairman of the Constitutional Implementation Commission (CIC) asking either the courts or some other tribunal to establish a threshold for these impeachment proceedings. So far, reading the two Reports, I think that there is a lot of literature in these reports about the question of threshold for impeachment. It is an issue which the Senate is very conscious about. In fact, in all these proceedings, and as I read this Report, I find that it is an issue that we have addressed time and again. Therefore, we do not need an opinion from another body or arm of Government, to tell us how to do our job. This is because the Constitution is a product of Parliament. It may not be the only organ of Constitution making, but even this Constitution, if we wanted to amend it, there is a parliamentary process by which Parliament, including the Senate, can amend. So, the lawmaker is not supposed to be lectured really on the law.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Article 181 of the Constitution is very clear on what circumstances one can be impeached, in relation to those who have been elected as Governors. Therefore, what I am proud about, reading the two Reports that have come before this House, is that the Senate is up to the task and it looks very clear as to why the Constitution makers in this country decided to vest this power on the Senate. They could have vested this power on the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am, indeed, pleased to contribute today, something which I have not done in the last couple of impeachment Motions that were discussed in this House. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I agree with the sentiments expressed by Sen. Kiraitu, as he cited the Constitution which has set the Governor free and also the many other reasons that he has given. I personally feel very strongly that one year in the dispensation,we should not have hurried in impeaching Governors, because that will send a very wrong message to members of the county assemblies, who can use this as a pretext to remove Governors. In the process, they would send a misconceived idea to the public that the new system is not working. Secondly, anything new must have its own problems. The new Constitution created county assemblies. We knew that they would have problems. We need to nurture them, guide them and to tell them that they should consider service delivery to the people rather than dealing with an individual who may not have committed such a serious crime as we can see from this Report. I congratulate the Committee because it has done very good work. I hope that this will send a strong message to Members of County Assemblies (MCAs) who think it is easy to impeach Governors. It is not that easy if we are to follow the Constitution. With those few remarks, I support.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to salute the men and women that we put in the Committee. Just like the previous Committee that dealt with the Wambora case, I think the Senate has distinguished itself as a House of fairness and as a House that will discharge its responsibility under the law and the Constitution as established. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

What a wonderful day!

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Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would like to join my colleagues in congratulating Sen. Obure and his able Committee for producing a wonderful Report. This Report, going by the verdict that has been given, this Committee and the Senate by extension has sent a very strong signal to the Members of the County Assemblies (MCAs) that they should now go to work and stop chasing Governors. There is a lot of work to be done out there. Ever since we were elected, most of them have been filing Motions against Governors and there is a lot of hue and cry. They have been talking about impeachment. The word “impeachment” has been mentioned by all the MCAs. At times, they have been threatening Governors. The House has now spoken and said that it will be fair in the dealings and considerations of Governors. Therefore, I urge MCAs to go back to work now and only refer matters that are obvious to this Senate because we will be very fair. At the same time, we have also sent a signal to the Governors that they are not above the law. They must be looking carefully and ensuring that whatever decisions they make are in accordance with the law and the Constitution because they will be scrutinized as it has been demonstrated by our Committee. There is one thing I want to raise. The second time that Motion came here to impeach Governor Wambora; I raised an issue of discussing these matters outside before they are brought to the Senate. I do not think we have taken this matter as serious as we ought to. In the case of the Governor for Kericho, I heard comments – in complete disbelief – by our colleagues saying that they will ensure that he is safe and that he will not be impeached. That is belittling the House. We want to apply rules to Members who flout our rules. Some Members took it upon themselves to acquit the Governor even before the Senate and the Committee discussed the matters. That way, people end up thinking that we are not a serious House. I am pleading to my colleagues, particularly on the other side, to stop giving verdicts of matters that are before the Senate before we discuss them. Whatever Report is produced, people may think was predetermined. I cannot ever emphasise this matter. It is for the benefit and the integrity of the Senate. I thank you and the Committee. I urge MCAs to go back to work. Our colleagues in the county assemblies should deliver services to our people and stop bringing allegations that are not substantiated.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to start with the last point that Sen. Musila made in thanking the Committee and, indeed, Sen. Obure for his good stewardship to the Committee. However, let me start by saying that there should never be a ruling that will The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Everybody will talk because we do not have any other business. We only have to do a balancing act. Since we are having the first gender interest, I will call upon Sen. Ongoro. Sen. Khalwale, you are sure you have not spoken?

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also want to add my voice in congratulating the Committee that presented this massive Report to us. Just before I give my sentiments, I want to accept and agree that it is time that we turned to something else other than the analogue. This is very punishing because we were given an hour to go through it and it is not possible for one to interrogate this massive document with that short period. Had it been sent to our ipads, we would have time to interrogate the Report. I just want to say that when we were handling the first impeachment case that was presented to us, we were under attack from all sorts of people stating that Senators have an issue with Governors and so on and so forth. We have wavered that storm and we can prove to everybody that really in executing our mandate as a Senate and individually as Senators, we only pledge our allegiance to the Constitution. In the Senate, we do not pledge our allegiance to anybody and not to any political party. We do not bring to fore our ethnic affiliations or backgrounds. We simply execute our mandate as provided by the Constitution and we hold nobody accountable to anything apart from the facts that are presented. Therefore, it is upon the MCAs to present us with facts that have grounds and not weak ones that cannot withstand any test of what we are going to interrogate. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to congratulate this Governor although I have not had occasion to meet him. Definitely, according to the Report, the manner in which he handled himself, he did not become erratic in his words, he was very compliant and he exhibited a lot of humility in dealing with the Senate and that means that he respects us, as Senators, and the institution of the Senate. I just want to state that this is not a balancing act as has been stated out there by some people; that we are simply impeaching one Governor and then letting another one go scot free. That is far from it. If we are presented with 20 cases that deal with facts that lead to impeachment, we will do that. But we are not going to crucify somebody when the facts presented before us do not meet those standards. This is what we have done this time round. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I will also be brief because I know that many of us want to speak. I want to take this opportunity to thank Sen. Obure and his Vice Chairperson, Sen. Murungi, and all the Members of this Committee for doing us proud and especially for coming up with a very concrete and useful report which I have had the advantage of looking at. Secondly, I want to say that what we are witnessing here is once again a trial not only of the Governor of Kericho County which has come to a close, but also the continuous trial that this Chamber goes through as Kenyans put a lot of hope in what we do and how we approach issues. This process has been a bit different from what we had last time and I cannot sit down without thanking everyone. First and foremost, I thank the Members of the County Assembly of Kericho. It would be very wrong if we appear as if we are saying that when MCAs are doing their accountability work, they are wrong or they are abusing their roles. They are not. We want to send a message to all the MCAs across this country that they must exercise their responsibilities as an oversight institution without fear or favour and without ill will or affection. That way, devolution will help us realize the dream of a better Kenya. So I want to salute the MCAs because they were doing their work. I know we are not allowed to speak about the merits of the Report, but I have seen the Committee recommending some action, which means that those MCAs were saying something and so, I want to thank them. Secondly, I take this opportunity to thank the Hon. (Prof.) Chepkwony, the Governor for Kericho County, for approaching this matter judicially with humility. I know this has been said but I want to emphasize that humility is not cowardice. The Governor said: “I have been accused, the matter is now before the Senate, I will submit myself to the authority of the Senate and I will abide by the outcome of that process”. So, we are also sending a message to all the Governors in the Republic of Kenya that they must not live under a notion that they can wish the Senate of the Republic of Kenya away. We are there by law, we do our work, we know what to do when and we follow the Constitution and the law when we are doing our work. This should be the spirit. We do not want people to come and beat their chests here and start boasting here that they will go somewhere else. Where will they go to? This is Parliament and they will go nowhere. I have kept on repeating that what Parliament has done cannot be undone. You can try doing certain things but it would not work. The earlier the Governors realize that Senators are equal partners in this journey and that you cannot wish the Senate away, the better for devolution and the prosperity of this country. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to contribute to this Motion. I want to begin by saying that just like my colleagues have done, I was a Member of the Committee and I am not going to congratulate the Committee because other colleagues who were not part of it have done it. I want to thank the Secretariat for their good work as we worked for the last few days. I want to begin by saying that the action of the Senate this afternoon is a demonstration of the fact that it is Parliament that is able to discharge its duties with justice, fairness and get rid of the notion that this is a place to witch-hunt Governors. This is a place to separate what is wrong from what is right. I think if we do not pick things as they are, we will still be having cases here. I have a feeling that the Report will help to guide county governments and particularly Governors to understand what the gaps are. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have not had so many cases being brought to the Senate, but probably they are on the way, but there is evidence in almost all the counties that there are issues that have either got to do with financial management, human resource management, public private partnerships which is an entirely new concept for many people; its operations, the framework under which such partnerships are expected to move and development planning and programming where most of us have expertise in only one area. Governors only have expertise in areas in which they trained. They have gaps and they really need to recruit people who understand all these areas that we are talking about. There is also knowledge gap in terms of humanitarian aid, responses and planning. Quite a number of counties have a problem in cohesion because Governors are not bringing on board all other elected leaders. If only this can be used as a learning process, I am sure counties will not have the problems that we are seeing. In the long-term, what we have done now as a Senate and what we did in the Embu case should help improve governance in this country. The fact that the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to, first of, all congratulate the Committee Members for doing a very good job. I have been in their situation before and it is not an easy job. The weight that was on their shoulders was not an easy one and they have performed their task professionally and to the requirements of the law. The decision of this Senate this afternoon is a victory for Governor Chepkwony but for us, it is a victory of the law. It shows that our institutions are working. We have been accused out there of being in the business of balancing and that we are baying for the blood of county Governors. Nothing is further from the truth. We are not in the business of Ocampo of balancing both sides. We just look at the law. It must go on record that three decisions on impeachment of county officials have come to this House; two in the case of the Deputy Governor of Embu and the Governor of Kericho have been dismissed because they have not been substantiated and one in the case of the Governor of Embu has been substantiated. So, this argument that the Senate has not been fair is not true because our fairness is looking at the law. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we understand the decision of the Committee. I have read through this Report and what I get is not a situation where we are saying the MCAs of Kericho County are wrong. It is about a new jurisprudence of this House. The first part of our jurisprudence was that in the case of the Deputy Governor of Embu, it was not substantiated. In the case of the Governor of Embu, it was substantiated. In the case of the Governor of Kericho, the allegations were not substantiated as a result of not meeting the threshold. So, you can look at the three cases and realize that our jurisprudence has grown from a case of no substantiation, where it was substantiated and where it was not substantiated because of the threshold. So, looking at the Report, you will realize that you cannot fault the County Assembly because in their wisdom and knowledge, they read the law as it is and found that there was violation of the law, but they also went ahead and said that the threshold was not achieved. In that regard, therefore, it is wrong for us who are going to be quoted to have said that the county assemblies have run rogue. I have heard my colleague – and with due respect to the Senator for Kitui, Sen. Musila – trying to say that “Oh, the Members of County Assembly (MCAs) should go back to business;” that is their business! Their business is oversight of the county executive so that they can perform. That exercise is supposed to be done meticulously, with passion and commitment, because the end objective is to ensure that the Governor performs well; and to ensure that the County Executive Committee (CEC) members perform well. So, we cannot fault our colleagues, because the MCAs are our colleagues. They are doing oversight work, they are doing legislative work; it is because of that hard work that this report was written and it is saying that certain The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Yes, Senate Majority Leader?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I hate to disrupt people, but I have listened to Sen. Kipchumba Murkomen and earlier on, Sen. James Orengo. I am just wondering whether it is in order, because I am on record to have said that we will need to look at possible legislation on impeachment, which legislation perhaps none of them has read. But what they are trying to do here – and I want you to direct us whether it is in order – is actually to try to anticipate and pre-empt debate, which I do not think is healthy because this House is about generating legislation. Therefore, to try and scare away potential legislation without even reading it – because it is not just about threshold; it is about many things about impeachment. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you must have---

Order, Sen. Murkomen! He has asked me to make a ruling, has he not?

I thought I should respond to it---

No; there is no point of you responding on that issue. You see, it is in common domain, Senate Majority Leader, because we read the newspapers and I know that it is an issue going out there about threshold. I know that even the Constitution Implementation Commission (CIC) was reported twice saying that they want to bring legislation on threshold. I think this is an important issue of whether or not there should be legislation. So, with a lot of respect to you, Senate Majority Leader, I think it will not be right to gag Senators from expressing their views, whether they are pre-empting or not, because they are going to discuss it anyway when the time comes.

So, Sen. Murkomen, you can proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I think you shied from saying he is completely out of order!

Sen. Murkomen, are you now going to direct me? I have made my ruling on the issue!

It is to guide you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Suffice to note that what Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki is talking about is not a Bill yet; they are just proposals by various people. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just wanted to note that Article 181 of the Constitution on grounds of removal include abuse of office or gross misconduct. Had the charges been brought under Article 181(c) on abuse of office, or if in future, the question of charges of abuse of office are to be brought in relation to any Governor, the question of gross violation does not arise. So, that is important for us to note; that when you move to Article 181(c) on abuse of office or gross The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

We have 25 minutes or thereabouts and there are about seven of you who want to talk now. So, you cannot all have ten minutes. So, I am going to unilaterally direct that you are going to talk for a maximum of five minutes for the remaining people who want to talk; and we are going to have Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. next. Or do you want to concede your chance to Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?

Not now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

I would have been surprised!

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I was a Member of this Committee and I must say that I have a great admiration for judges, because this was not an easy task that we were performing. But most importantly, I want to repeat what Sen. Murkomen and Sen. Wetangula have said; that the persons who are telling the public that we need a law on impeachment should read this very carefully, because the Constitution has provided clear parameters as to what we need to do when it comes to impeachment.

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By soft copy!

By soft copy; thank you, Chairperson for ICT. Therefore, any person who imagines, thinks or is dreaming of conducting an impeachment proceeding can read this, and read this very carefully, because we have bothered to get into very detailed research on impeachment, both in the Commonwealth and other areas for The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. Karaba.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance to say something about the report on the impeachment of the Governor of Kericho. First, I would like to thank the Members and the Senate for appointing me as one of the Committee Members. I was happy to serve in that Committee to the best of my knowledge and intellect. The other thing, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is that we were faced with quite some challenges earlier on as we were trying to interpret the newspaper reports. But going by what we were able to absorb, we were mature enough to understand that newspapers or no newspapers; politics or no politics, we stood by our grounds. I can assure this House that whatever report is given, it did not have any prejudice; we did not even suffer from any influence from any quarters. We went by what we assessed as per the information provided. I would like to support the Committee for being so courageous to the point of not being influenced by anybody or any kind or source of news which came during that time. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a Committee which worked during very hard times; it was during the times when we had the Madaraka Holiday and a long weekend. Fortunately, the Members decided to hold themselves in some very secretive hotels and they were able to come up with the report, which is already tabled. I congratulate myself and other people for doing so well. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is also important to note that this is a very important turning point for our Governors and the counties, where we have one person who has been impeached and another one who has been cleared, going by the report. So, it is up to the Governors and MCAs to find out when is somebody to be impeached; what wrongs should one be impeached for? They should study that report. They can also study and find out when should somebody not be impeached. So, the MCAs and Governors have a lesson to learn, and that is very good, and the credit to the Senate is important. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is also important to note that the MCAs might have had a feeling that it is very easy to impeach somebody on the grounds that they need to have their hands oiled. However, they should now realize that it is not only oil that is important but concrete evidence while arguing with somebody. When it comes to the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA), you will find that some companies are receiving less. Senators are being accused of not giving enough. That is the reason why Governors are not working the way they The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to join my colleagues in thanking Members of the Committee, although I was one of them for a job well done. Listening to the comments made by many contributors to this Motion, you easily get the impression that the MCAs did not do a very good job. I want to be categorical that we dug through the allegations and issues raised by MCAs. The technicality that arose was on the basis of threshold. We want to agree that the Constitution---

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am getting a little bit concerned regarding what was raised, earlier by Sen. Khalwale. When we start talking about the Report and what the MCAs are doing, are we not getting into the Report?

Sen. Sang, are we getting to the Report?

No! No!

But you must appreciate that the line is very thin. First and foremost, the line is very thin, whether you are discussing it generally or specifically. The Speaker made a ruling on this earlier. I will ask that you be careful, particularly if you were a Member of the Committee. If I had taken time to look who the Members of the Committee were, I most likely would not have given time to them since the Chairperson and the Deputy Chairperson have already spoken. I appreciate that the line is very thin. However, try and not to be argumentative or to defend the Report. If you want to talk about threshold, talk about it but do not talk about the Report.

Are we in agreement?

We are in agreement but I want to mention that the line was equally thin when the other contributors were making their points. I would like to clarify that the Members of the County Assembly did their job. The Constitution talks about threshold. However, threshold is in the mind of the person deciding at that particular moment. That means that when MCAs sat in Kericho to decide on this issue, they thought that the threshold had been met. When we sat as a Committee, we made a different decision. That does not mean that the MCAs did not do a good job. I want to be on record to thank the Members of Kericho County Assembly for doing a very good job. I brought a Bill to this House, an amendment to the County Government Act. I had already seen the challenges that Kericho County would face. One of the recommendations we have made is that the Sen. Charles Keter should spearhead reconciliatory efforts between the County Assembly and the County Executive. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when we realized that it was the County Assembly of Kericho which was coming before us, those of us who know Kericho very well said; that cannot be Kericho. Kericho is very unique. I refer to Kericho as the county of one colour; the green colour of peace and environment. It is a beautiful place. The MCA should know that as I have consistently supported them in the need to exercise of oversight over their Governors, they should know that the Senate will not say wolf just because MCAs have cried wolf. They should come with facts the same way that MCAs of Embu did.

Order, Sen. Khalwale. I do not think I want to entertain that Report. That is the point that Sen. Sang is making. I do not want this to appear to be an MCA bashing situation. You made a Report and there is a finding on the Report. The issue, as Sen. Sang has said, is threshold if you read the Report carefully. I will not preside over a Senate where we seem to be bashing MCAs and talking about their crying wolf. I think we need to be careful so that we do not digress to the line that the Speaker spoke about earlier in the afternoon.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to mention to my brother, Sen. Charles Keter, that there are many things that are not in this Report; the many politics that were in play in Kericho that may have emotionally affected issues to proceed one way or the other. As we request you to take charge, it is important for MCAs, Senators and MPs to realise that oversight demands serious impartiality. At bullet No.41, the Report tells us that the Governor presented evidence to confirm that they were asking for money from him. That shows how important it is for us, once again, to commit ourselves to the issues of impartiality. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I was a Member of that Committee. Sen. Boni should be candid and honest. He should read the section where we said; “the Governor provided evidence to show---” That is not there.

I said bullet No.41.

We have consistently said that we do not want to refer to the Report. What we are hearing are people citing parts of the Report. We are waiting to make comments in the three minutes that you gave us and we are still waiting.

This will be my ruling, Sen. Khalwale. First of all, you are not discussing the generality of the Report. What you are calling bullet 41 could be read out of context. Read it in context to see if it is an allegation and if there is a finding. I will not allow us to go into details regarding this Report. If you have some political issues in the backyard of Kericho, then we do not know. We are relying on this Report by the Special Committee – those of us who do not come that part of the world. We need to be careful on how we handle this Report and how we look at it so that we are fair to everybody; the Governor, MCA, the residents and citizens of Kenya who are following this debate very keenly to see how we deal with it.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir that is why I said that it was a generality. I was ending this issue of impartiality and I now want to introduce the issue of integrity. There are Members of this House and the Members of the Executive who chose to tell the audience in a public forum that they had talked to this Senate and the Governor would be set free. If integrity means anything to them and if they respect the Senate, then they should use that opportunity to withdraw those remarks and if possible apologise. The success of this process depends on us convincing---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank my friend, Chris, for the good job he did with his team. Secondly, I would like to say something different from what is being said here. I agree with your ruling. Let us not appear as if we are here siding with one group of people. If there was no misappropriation or any other bad dealings, there would not have been problems. We are called to be responsible in terms of impeachment so that we solve the problem like the one that was in Kericho. We should form a committee, go there like wazees and decide on this case. We are making it big because it is a political act. We must know that impeachment is a political act even if the law supports it. It is not in a court of law where our issues are presented. I want to make this statement short. The message this evening is that we should have responsible Governors and MCAs. If MCAs are condemned by anyone from here, we would be making a terrible crime because they are there to do their job of oversight.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I join my colleagues in thanking the Committee for working tirelessly. I have read through the work they have done and now justice has been dispensed. Since devolution is new in Kenya, all offices that matter in the counties need to play their roles clearly and carefully, so that we do not misuse the powers that The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Your time is up! Sen. Lesan, you have two minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. First, I would like to appreciate the ruling of the Speaker, which has enabled us to have a chance to debate this Report which is before us. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, like my colleagues, I also wish to congratulate the Committee for a job well done. The word “investigate” is scientific. It is used when we form a Committee here. It means that the decisions that we make are as a result of the findings that we arrive at after investigations. So, I wish to address the nation and let people know that we make decisions after carrying out investigations. Therefore, the decisions that we are making have been arrived at validly. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to make a comment regarding the impeachment process. The impeachment process is a very traumatizing thing. I witnessed this in my neighbouring county. I know that things have been at a standstill in Kericho County, as a result of this process. Impeachment kills hope, motivation and aspiration. It even breeds hatred among the communities. I want to take this opportunity to urge that the word “reconciliation” should be a very important asset in the next few days in Kericho County. There is a group of elders in Kericho called “Miot” that has been referred to in the Report. I really want to urge that this group of elders rises up and serves the community at a higher interest like they have not done before. It is this group of elders that should do their best to heal the rifts in Kericho County. We wish them as well as the Governor success. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to echo the sentiments by most of my colleagues who have spoken and thank Sen. Obure and his team of 11 Members for the Report which we have. This is a good Report and all of us, including the Governors and MCAs, should read it. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will take the challenge by my colleagues and ensure that Kericho County can come back on track. It is a good county and I want to assure my fellow The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I know that time is not on our side, but let me also take this opportunity to thank my colleagues and Members of the Committee for the good job that they did. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is very clear that Kenyans want to reap the fruits of the new Constitution. One of the fruits is devolution. All the challenges that we are facing today are actually associated with devolution. Kenyans want to see the fruits of devolution and the current situation both in Embu County and Kericho County is a concern. All of us want to see things being done in the right way. It is not our core function---

Order, Members! It is now 6.30 p.m. It is time for interruption of business. The House stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday 4th June, 2014, at 2.30 p.m.

The House rose at 6.30 p.m.

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