Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate today, Tuesday 22nd September, 2015:- Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the County Government of Meru for the 16 months period ended 30th June 2014. Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statement of Embu County Government for the 16 months period ended 30th June 2014. Report of the Auditor-General on the financial operations of Kiambu County Assembly for the period 1st July 2013 to 30th June 2014. Report of the Auditor-General on the financial operations of Murang’a County Executive for the period 1st July 2013 to 30th June 2014. Report of the Auditor-General on the financial operations of Kirinyaga County Assembly for the period 1st July 2013 to 30th June 2014.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- GIVEN the clear provisions of Article 6(1) and the First Schedule which establishes the 47 counties of the Republic of Kenya; CONSIDERING the clear provisions of the Districts and Provinces Act (Cap 105A) of 1992 which specifically delineates the geographical boundaries of each county; NOTING the provisions of Article 188 of the Constitution, which clearly states that the boundaries of a county be altered only by resolution of an Independent Commission, set up for that purpose by Parliament and with the support of at least two- thirds of the Members of the National Assembly and two-thirds of the county delegations in the Senate; FURTHER NOTING that the boundaries of the counties have not been surveyed and no beacons have been fixed; CONCERNED that failure by the National Government to mark and fix the county boundaries has led to endless and sometimes violent conflicts, in which innocent Kenyans have been killed and their property destroyed and is generally perpetuating poverty and underdevelopment in many counties of this Republic; THIS HOUSE urges the Office of the President and the Ministry of Lands, Housing and Urban Development to urgently establish a task force to survey mark, and fix beacons for all the county boundaries and submit a report of the said taskforce to this House on or before 31st March 2016.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker, this House passed a Motion by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. requiring that a commission is set up by the President to look into the boundaries of different counties. Is it, therefore, in order for the Speaker to allow this Motion to be discussed in this House at this time?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I know the process for approval of Motions by the Speaker. However, sometimes the Speaker may need someone to bring to his attention existence of a similar Motion. In this regard, there was not only a Motion by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., but there is already a Bill which is about to be tabled in this House. We have approved it in the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. It is proposing detailed mechanism for dealing with boundaries. So, I request Sen. Murungi that before the Motion is put on the Order Paper for future deliberations, to consult Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. and jointly perhaps, approach the Speaker with a view of merging the two processes. We do not want to deliberate again on something that we have already deliberated on and moved forward. Thank you.

(Sen. Ongoro)

Madam Temporary Speaker, we, probably, do not expect you to make a ruling on this now, because the Motion was approved by the Office of the Speaker. However, in my understanding of this Motion, what Sen. Murungi is asking us to do is an illegality. The Motion says in part:- “THAT, this House urges the Office of the President and the Ministry of Lands, Housing and Urban Development, to urgently establish a taskforce to survey, mark and fix beacons for all county boundaries and to submit report to the said taskforce---” Madam Temporary Speaker, Article 188 of the Constitution, stipulates clearly how boundaries can be altered. Article 188(1) says: “The boundaries of a county may be altered only by a resolution–– ( a ) recommended by an independent commission set up for that purpose by Parliament; and ( b ) passed by–– (i) the National Assembly

Finally on this, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

Madam Temporary Speaker, last week on the request of the Senate Minority Leader we stood down the First Reading of the County Boundaries Bill, so that the schedule on two counties, that is, Siaya and Bungoma, which had been inadvertently omitted by the Office of the Government Printer, can be included. Madam Temporary Speaker, my only concern is that by approving this Motion, the Speaker’s Office might cause a conflict to the public; that we are proposing a Bill which provides the mechanisms of how county boundaries will be done. However, at the same time, we are asking the Office of the President to fix boundaries. The public will get confused as to what we are doing in the Senate. Therefore, we are sending the wrong signals. Secondly, Sen. Khaniri has been waiting for the last several months about an issue he has raised with our Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights and many others. The other day, we challenged Sen. Sang when they came up with a taskforce on the issue about setting up polling stations in the United States because a taskforce had already been formed. It will pose a tremendous challenge when we appear to be blowing hot and cold in the Senate.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. Kiraitu, I have not given you the Floor. Considering the fact that it is your Motion that is being discussed, allow the Chair to give a ruling to some observations by hon. Senators.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Okay. Let me give you that opportunity to give your intervention.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I would like to say the following on the comments made by my colleagues on my notice of Motion. If you look at the Notice of Motion, I read Article 188 which Sen. Khaniri is referring to because it says: “Noting the provisions of Article 188”. Article 188 talks about alteration of the boundaries while my notice of Motion does not talk about alteration of any boundary. According to me, the Districts and Provinces Act of 1992 had a Schedule which clearly states and gives geographical references of the districts per 1992. It is those districts which are now counties. Madam Temporary Speaker, we are not requesting for alteration of any boundary because they are clearly stated in the Districts and Provinces Act of 1992. My Motion is merely asking that those boundaries which are clearly stated in that Act be marked by placing beacons and, under the Standing Orders, Article 188 does not apply. The proposed Bill referred to has not come to the House. It is not before us and, therefore, the comments made by Sen. Murkomen are anticipatory. Therefore, he cannot refer to a Bill which is yet to be brought to the House to block my notice of Motion. Secondly, regarding my friend, the Senator for Makueni, his Motion is about the review of boundaries which will be almost similar to what Sen. Khaniri is talking about; review or alteration of boundaries. However, mine is strictly for marking of boundaries. There is a difference.

Please, conclude your intervention.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the review might bring changes to boundaries which are not what I am asking for.

Please, conclude your intervention. You are not contributing.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am just responding; kindly be patient with me. The issues that Members are raising were actually raised at the Rules and Business Committee (RBC) and the “Queen of Kisii” was present in that meeting. The Speaker was very aware of the issues that are being raised. The Speaker approved this notice of Motion when he was well aware of Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.’s Motion and other arguments. I, therefore, plead with the Chair to allow me to give this notice of Motion. Thank you.

Thank you, Senator. We must bring that to a conclusion. Let me start by stating that the Speaker is aware of the Bill by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. Secondly, the Bill that was referred to by Sen. Murkomen is not yet a property of the House. Therefore, we cannot make reference to it. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to request for a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Land and Natural Resources relating to the destruction of indigenous trees for charcoal burning in the North Rift region; West Pokot, Turkana, Baringo and Elgeyo-Marakwet counties. In the statement, I request the Chairperson to:- 1. State whether he is aware that there is a new trade that has replaced cattle rustling in the North Rift, along Kerio River, particularly in Kolowa Ward, neighbouring Tot in Marakwet and Chesegon in West Pokot in the form of destruction of indigenous trees for charcoal burning; and that this is facilitated by senior national and county government officials. 2. Explain what the relevant Government agency is doing to stop this dangerous activity in the region and in other areas throughout the country where such activities are being undertaken, given that recently, the Government wiped out illicit brews, drug barons and cattle rustling. This is a new phenomenon that will interfere with our ecosystem. It will interfere with our ecosystem and environment.

We are still on Statements. Please, proceed Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to request for a Statement on the cost of the trip by His Excellency the President to the 2015 United Nations General Assembly in New York.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. The request for statement by the Senator for West Pokot County was to the Chairman of the Committee on Land and Natural Resources. However, I did not hear the Chairperson say anything about that Statement. Could he say when he is likely to bring a response before you call the next statement?

Sorry for that oversight. The Chairperson is in the House. Kindly proceed, Sen. Khaniri.

Madam Temporary Speaker, you did not give me an opportunity to respond. I did not want to rise and respond without permission. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Are you satisfied with two weeks, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo?

I am okay with two weeks.

It is so ordered. Next Statement by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. COST OF THE TRIP BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT TO THE 2015 UN GENERAL ASSEMBLY IN NEW YORK

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to request for a statement on the cost of the trip by His Excellency the President to the 2015 United Nations General Assembly in New York. Pursuant to Standing Order No.45(2)(b), I wish to seek for the above statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget regarding the trip by His Excellency the President to the said conference at the United Nations (UN) Headquarters in New York. In the statement, the Chairman should, among other things, address the following:- (1) How many overseas trips has the President made from January, 2015 to date? (2) Could the Chairperson clarify the composition and number of persons in the delegations in each of those trips? (3) What has been the cost of each trip to the Kenyan taxpayer? (4) Could the Chairperson confirm that there are over 40 Members of Parliament (MPs) in the President’s Delegation to the 2015 United Nations General Assembly and explain their role in the trip considering that the Kenyan delegation is entitled to only 10 sitting slots at the General Assembly? (5) What measures is the Government taking to cut down on the frequency and size of delegations in overseas trips in view of the admission by His Excellency the President that the country is facing a financial crisis, making it difficult for him to honour the Supreme Court’s judgment to effect a salary increment to our teachers? I, thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Where is the Chairperson of the Committee on Education? He is not in the House. Is the Senate Majority Leader or the Deputy Majority Leader around?

Point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Just a minute.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the issues asked by my brother, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale are complex because besides being specific about the trip by His Excellency the President to New York, he went further to inquire about all the other trips The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, what we call the substratum of the question in law is missing. By the substratum of the question, I mean the fact that the President has not gone anywhere. Therefore, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is anticipating the President going to New York. He should wait until the President travels before he makes allegations. There is no delegation in the first place. Therefore, how can one answer a question on something that has not occurred? He should wait until the President makes his trip. So far, there is no hurry as far as that question is concerned because the President is in the office.

Madam Temporary Speaker, is the Senator for Elgeyo- Marakwet purporting to be the Chairman of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget and, therefore, attempting to answer the question? Madam Temporary Speaker, I am not responsible for the times of departure of the President. However, I know that the President will be attending the UN Conference in New York. Whether he left yesterday or will leave tomorrow, that is not the substance of the question. I did not ask – in my question – for when the President will be leaving. I asked about the cost of funding the trip.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. If you listened carefully to the statement sought by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, he was trying to rethink the habit of the President going for conferences with a certain number of people who have no business there. Is he not in breach of Standing Order No.90 of this House?

Order, Senators! We must bring this to a close. Sen. Murkomen, I will allow you to have the last intervention on this.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I submit to you and to the House that the substance of the question is whether or not the President is going to New York. The question anticipates that the President will go to New York with a delegation. The question expects a chairperson of a committee to answer in anticipation. What is the hurry for? Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale should wait until the President goes for the trip then it will be easy to state that he went with a delegation. Why should you act as a Speaker of the Senate of the Republic of Kenya in vain by ordering for an answer to a question whose action has not occurred? That is the substance of the question.

Hon. Senators, we have to proceed. However, I have a copy of the request for the statement here and the issues are very specific. (a) How many overseas trips has the President made from January, 2015 to date? (b) Could the Chairperson clarify the composition and the number of persons in the delegation in each of the trips?” (c) What has been the cost of each trip to the Kenyan taxpayer?” The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I thought that I was doing that as the Deputy Senate Majority Leader. I made my commitment because we want to give a very comprehensive answer in comparison to very many years.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, are you okay with three months?

Madam Temporary Speaker, the distinguished Senator for Kericho requested for three months. However, considering the mood in the country and the State of the Nation Address by the President on Sunday where he tried to justify why he cannot pay teachers; Kenyans, especially teachers and parents, are eager to know how much money is spent elsewhere that could possibly save the crisis in the education sector. Madam Temporary Speaker, I, therefore, request that he brings the answer – since it is just a matter of going to records at the national Treasury, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade and the Office of the President (OP) – next week on Thursday.

Thursday would be too soon because one of the trips will still be ongoing. Are two weeks sufficient for you, Deputy Senate Majority Leader?

Madam Temporary Speaker, why can we not issue it in one month’s time so that we come in between? One month will be in the next two weeks. We can give an answer in a month’s time because we have to deal with the foreign affairs office. Even some Members of Parliament sometimes accompany the President on some of those trips. It is not one organ we will deal with to come up with a comprehensive statement. That is why we need at least a month.

Sen. Ongoro): Sen. Khalwale, could we reach some compromise and give him three weeks?

Most obliged, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Sen. Ongoro): Fine. I think three weeks is reasonable. Let us move on with statements. It has been brought to my notice that some Statements are due and the hon. Senators are in the House. ISSUANCE OF TITLE DEEDS IN MERU COUNTY

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I want to request a Statement regarding the issuance of titles in Meru County. I hereby request the statement from the Chair of the Standing Committee on Lands, Housing and Urban Development clarifying the following issues. (1) How many titles have been processed and issued in Meru County since Madam Charity Ngilu, the Cabinet Secretary for Lands, Housing and Urban Development stepped aside on 29th March, 2015? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Why are you standing, Sen. Khaniri?

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I would not say the same of the Ministry of Lands, Housing and Urban Development. What I said of the Ministry of Environment, Water and Natural Resources is that when we request for Statements, answers come promptly. However, it is exactly the opposite of what happens when we do this in the Ministry of Lands, Housing and Urban Development. Records will show that sometimes it takes us even two months to receive statements from this particular Ministry. Madam Temporary Speaker, having said that let me give an undertaking that in three weeks---

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! Please, consult in low tones. Proceed, hon. Senator.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I will endeavour to make a response to that particular request in three weeks’ time. Whether the response is there or not, I will report progress in the House.

Sen. Murungi, are you okay with three weeks?

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker---

Sen. Ongoro): Do you like to inform the Chair or Sen. Murungi?

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. This House cannot tolerate incompetence from any Ministry. Therefore, for the Chairman to come here and say he has problems with the Ministry of Lands, Housing and Urban Development, is not fair at all. If he has a problem, he should ask the Chair to summon the Cabinet Secretary for Lands, Housing and Urban Development here so that we can deal with him as a House. He should not call upon us to assist him in the cover up of inefficiency in the Ministry. So, I need an answer in two weeks.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I am seeking a clarification to that question asked. What is the relevance of the name of the former Cabinet Secretary, the Hon. Charity Ngilu in that question? Why is her name coming up, when clearly know that we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, in requesting for three weeks, I was, indeed, going by the trend in which we receive answers from this particular Government department and I wanted to be very sincere to the House. I do not want to make promises that I will not be able to fulfill. The difference between two weeks and three weeks is not much. As pertains to the issue of incompetence, I want to inform Sen. Murungi that I am not anywhere near the appointing authority of Cabinet Secretaries and their offices. If there is incompetence in these ministries, it is this Jubilee Government that is supposed to deal with that and not me as a Chair of a Committee.

Madam Temporary Speaker, is Sen. Ong’era in order to personalise and reduce a Cabinet Secretary by saying ‘our Gusii?’ He is not a Gusii, but he is the Cabinet Secretary for the whole country and should serve all Kenyans. We do not want to know the tribe.

Madam Temporary Speaker, any Chair or a Vice Chair or a Member of a Committee who is unable to discharge his function, should not divert or give excuses that this side of the House or the other side is supposed to deal with it. If there is any incompetence in a committee, it is not a political party issue. If Sen. Khaniri and his Committee are unable to deal with that Ministry, he should start by demonstrating his competence by resigning from that committee.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not think the distinguished Senator from West Pokot heard what I said. I said our illustrious son from Kisii who is the Acting Cabinet Secretary in the Ministry of Lands, Housing and Urban Development. I did not say that the illustrious son happens to be a Gusii. I said our illustrious son who is a Gusii from Kisii. That is a fact that is known in the public. I am merely stating a fact.

Sen. Ongoro): Are you okay with the three weeks requested?

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I was asking about Hon. Charity Ngilu. The reason the name of Charity Ngilu features in my request for Statement is because when she was in the office, we received very many title deeds. There was a title centre which was operating even at night. Now it has been closed down. Madam Temporary Speaker, I did not say that my friend, Dr. Matiangi is incompetent. Indeed, he is a very competent person. However, he does not work alone in that Ministry. Sen. Khaniri was talking about the Ministry; he did not talk about a person. The question is: Could we have the same number of titles issued as they were issued during Charity Ngilu’s time until 29th March when she stepped aside? Considering the number of titles issued afterwards, this House can judge for itself whether that Ministry is performing well or not. We are not here to cast aspersions, but we want to deal with facts. This has nothing to do with the personality of Dr. Matiangi who is there in an acting capacity. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. Ongoro): Hon. Senators, the statement sought by Sen. Murungi is quite clear. What we need to know is whether you are okay with the three weeks time requested? To me, three weeks is reasonable time.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I believe they can do so within two weeks’ time. These are just statistics that we are looking for; so, why three weeks? Even a clerk can sit down and---

Sen. Murungi, we have just granted three weeks on another request.

Madam Temporary Speaker, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale’s issue was very complex.

Three weeks for the answer should be considerate. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, what is your intervention?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise on a point of order on a matter of procedure. The procedure in Parliament is that everything uttered here is put on record in the HANSARD. Are you satisfied that remarks by Sen. Murungi bordering on tribute to hon. Charity Ngilu on how she performed her duty should remain on record given that arising from the number of days she was at that docket, she has since been suspended? She is facing charges of corruption at the Ministry of Land, Housing and Urban Development, including the Karen land saga where four Senators of this House have been sued. These are Sen. Orengo, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, Sen. Ongoro and Sen. Muthama. Is he in order to pay any tribute to hon. Ngilu when she is being investigated for corruption and she is suing us as the whistle blowers?

Order, Senators! We have to bring this to an end. I honestly find nothing wrong with the Statement as sought and even the further clarification by Sen. Murungi. All that has been directed to a Senator who is a sitting Chair and is in the House. When and if he brings the answer, Members can then engage in further interrogation. Otherwise, three weeks for the answer to be issued is sufficient. Let us proceed to the next Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget. Proceed, Sen. Leshore.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I wish to seek a statement---

Order! It is, Madam Temporary Speaker. REVENUE COLLECTION FROM SAMBURU NATIONAL GAME RESERVE

I am sorry, Madam Temporary Speaker. I wish to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget regarding revenue collection from Samburu National Game Reserve. I do not see the Chairperson here. I requested this Statement five months ago. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

This was a serious oversight on the Order Paper. This Statement was sought almost five months ago. Today we were supposed to get to it. Hon. Senator, as you can see the Chairperson is not in the House. The Senate Majority Leader, can you tell us when Sen. Leshore will get this statement because it is five months now since it was sought. Could you give us an undertaking because you are in the House?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, on behalf of the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget, I request for two weeks. I will personally discuss with the Chairperson and ensure that this Statement is submitted within two weeks.

Sen. Leshore, will you be patient to wait for two more weeks? That will be five months and two weeks.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I will be out of the country for about three weeks.

So, one week.

Madam Temporary Speaker, if the Senate Majority Leader can bring it on Thursday, I will appreciate.

Senate Majority Leader, this Statement is five months old. It would only be in order if we added you two days, so that you bring it on Thursday. Is Thursday okay with you, Sen. Leshore? What is it, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.?

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I want to help the House. Last week, we discussed this matter extensively. We have sent four letters to the Cabinet Secretary, but he has not responded. We have asked the Clerk to issue a summons to the Cabinet Secretary and the Kenya Wildlife Service (KWS) next week in order for us to deal with issue once and for all.

Sen. Leshore, you have listened to a Member of the Committee. It seems not to be possible this week. Next week, you will be out of the country.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I will be around from mid-October.

You are going away for a whole month?

Madam Temporary Speaker, about three weeks.

Is three weeks okay?

Madam Temporary Speaker, we will have a response when the Senator is back from his trip.

Very well. Let us proceed. The next Statement was supposed to be given by Sen. Haji, the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations. The Statement was sought by Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo. The Chairperson is not in the House. Is any Member of the Committee present? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations is out of the country. So, I request for two weeks so that, hopefully by that time, he will have come back. We will ensure that it would be submitted.

Okay. ONGOING PROPERTY DEVELOPMENT AT THE JUNCTION OF LORESHO RIDGE ROAD AND LOWER KABETE ROAD The next Statement was sought by Sen. Kembi-Gitura who is also not in the House. However, we have the Vice Chairperson of the Committee on Land and Natural Resources here. However, we will have to skip it because Sen. Kembi-Gitura is not in the House.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I appreciate your ruling. However, since there are Members of that Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations in this House and the written answer has been with the Chairperson; would it not be in order that any Member can read it this week or latest next week, rather than postponing it? This is a matter concerning deaths. We want the people who killed these boys to be arrested.

Hon. Senator, to the best of my knowledge and because I know all the Members of all Committees, I do not see any Member of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations in the House. If you know any, please, bring it to my attention. I am a Member of that Committee, but I am on the Chair. Therefore, I cannot respond and read that statement. So, we will skip that too because the Chairperson and any Member of the Committee is not here. We proceed with statements. We need to bring this item to a conclusion. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): I am sorry, Madam Temporary Speaker, I was consulting. Which Statement is that?

The Statement is on the next page.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, the one on the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare?

Yes.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, again, if you could allow, there is a point of order for help.

Proceed, Sen. Kisasa.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am a Member of that Committee. We will issue the Statement in two weeks’ time.

I kept asking if there was a Member of the Committee and you were just seated.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am present and alive.

Sen. Chelule, is two weeks fine with you?

Madam Temporary Speaker, as much as Sen. Murkomen is claiming that Sen. Mshenga Kisasa is my friend, this is not a matter of friendship. I requested for this statement about one and half months ago. I also requested for the same last week. I was promised that they would give me answers this week. I now seek for your guidance. I request her to tell me exactly when the Committee will give us the answer.

You are not comfortable with two weeks? Sen. Mshenga Kisasa, could you undertake to bring an answer on Thursday?

Madam Temporary Speaker, Thursday, this week is okay with me.

The leadership of the Senate should take it seriously to prevail upon Chairs to always be in the House to give answers to statements sought. We will skip the statement sought by Sen. Kanainza because she is not in the House. The last statement was sought by Sen. Ntutu from the County Public Accounts and Investment Committee (CPAIC). The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to register my disappointment with the Government in the way they are driving requisition for statements. Even after three months and the Chair directing last week that the answer be here today, I have only been given a letter to read to the House from the County Secretary of Narok County. I will not waste the time of the House by reading it. He is merely saying that he wants us to allow him to give us an answer within 14 days. I believe that the County Secretary is giving my Committee the go ahead because we have been rotated enough. Therefore, I leave it to the discretion of the Chair to either give further direction. If the Chair could bear with me, I will tell the House what we, as a Committee, have chosen to do.

Tell the House what you have chosen to do as a Committee.

Madam Temporary Speaker, we have decided to apply the force of law on the Governor of Narok County. Therefore, we are demanding that he brings the written Statement in person to the Committee on the 6th of October which is exactly 14 days that he has requested for. We want him to come in person because we do not want to let this answer follow on that day, for the reason that there are vital documents that we need. These are copies of the bank statements for his county government for the months of February, March and April 2014. We would also like him to come with a record of the revenue as recorded in the Mara Triangle Website during those periods. This would enable us to see the veracity and usefulness of the Statement that I would be bringing to the House on that day.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Sen. Murkomen, what is out of order?

Madam Temporary Speaker, to the best of my knowledge, as a Member of that Committee, we only agreed that our Chairman will read the statement as it is. We did not agree that it had come to a stage where we will issue summons. I wish you could hear me on this because it is important for your determination. I wish the Chairman had read the letter. The argument in the letter is that we sent our own request for statement late and they received it---

Madam Temporary Speaker, could I complete what I am saying?

Madam Temporary Speaker, you have noticed an argument between Members of one Committee so ably chaired by their Chairman who has given a statement in this House. Is Sen. Murkomen in order to dispute the Chair’s response in this House? I am told that he does not attend meetings. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, procedurally, you gave the Floor to Sen. (Dr.) Machage illegally because I was on a point of order. I am facing the same challenge in my Committee that I Chair, where requests made for questions that are related to counties are delayed inordinately. We, as the Senate, must take responsibility through our staff. If we sent letters late, we cannot take punitive measures against those whom we request the letters from. That is the point I was making. If the letter had been read as it is, then it would explain why there was a delay in getting the answer. A request for two weeks is reasonable for me.

Madam Temporary Speaker, this is very sad because the Senator for Elgeyo-Marakwet is a Member of the County Public Accounts and Investment Committee. For him to purport and assume that whenever he departs from the meeting, it then registers the end of the meeting is misleading the House. He left the meeting before the meeting ended. The matter on which we found the Office of the Clerk at fault, in terms of writing to a county government on time, was not in respect to Narok County. It was in respect to Kakamega County. I want to insist that if we will fight corruption in this country, Hon. Senators should not use the Floor of this House or their membership in committees to protect governors who are Members of their political parties. It is a matter of public notoriety that the Governor of Narok belongs to the same party with Sen. Murkomen. Therefore, I would like Sen. Murkomen to withdraw and apologize for imputing improper motives on his own Committee and on the Chairman. We have committed ourselves to fighting corruption. We have lost Kshs53 million---

Order! Anybody who seeks an intervention should log in and they will be given a chance.

Madam Temporary Speaker, we are talking about a serious matter and our country is watching. A sum of Kshs53 million collected in February, March and April has been declared as not collected by the governor. The money is gone. The Senator has approached the Committee to unlock the crisis. So, when a Member of the Committee starts talking like this, the public can be forgiven for thinking that my Committee has been penetrated by the governor. I want to assure the House that we shall get to the bottom of the loss of Kshs53 million in Narok County.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

I had given the Floor to Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo. However, if you are on a point of order, I will give you the Floor. Take your seat, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo. Sen. Ntutu has requested for a point of order so that precedes yours.

Madam Temporary Speaker, even though there are some complains here and there, we do not have to worry much because those are flying briefcases, which are benefiting some few individuals in the House.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. Ongoro

Madam Temporary Speaker---

Sen. Ongoro

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Order, Sen. Murkomen. I am about to give you the Floor. However, under those circumstances, you are making it very difficult. Proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, first of all, I want to dare the Senator for Narok not to pretend to hide behind the Parliamentary privilege to insult other Senators. I am an intelligent person and I know what I am doing. I am not a beneficiary of any money from Narok County. I dare him to mention the same outside this door. Secondly, he must substantiate because the Standing Orders are very clear. If he mentioned anything regarding any Senator, he must bring a substantive Motion. He must substantiate that point. Most importantly, the Chair of my Committee has hidden facts contained in the letter. That is why I insisted that he should read the letter, but he did not read it. To the best of my knowledge, this letter says:- “We acknowledge the receipt of your communication vide email dated 16th September 2015, asking us to provide information on the Statement to Senate. This is, therefore, to inform your office that the county government is currently compiling the necessary data and we undertake to provide the necessary The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Senator! Please, conclude.

We, as Senate, must be serious! The Senator for Narok is rarely in this House. His contributions in this House are close to nil. Then on one day he comes to insult me.

Order, Senator! We are now becoming unruly. I have been listening very keenly to all deliberations. First and foremost, I am aware that if any Senator is adversely mentioned, then substantiations should follow. However, as I listened to Sen. Ntutu, I heard him say “some Senators”. He did not mention any name. I am not aware of any Senator in this House called “some”. So, all we need from him is to substantiate which Senators he was making reference to. As it is now, he has not mentioned any names. I want to request that we proceed because given the manner in which we are proceeding, it is now becoming a bit heated. We need sanity to reign so that we can proceed. I will give the Floor to three Senators to bring this matter to a conclusion.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I just want to mention for the purpose of record that what has happened today is unprecedented. It has never happened in the history of Parliamentary procedure where, a Chair gives a Statement and a Member contradicts the same statement. If there are any differences, they should be resolved within the Committee. This House has been treated to something that should not be allowed to happen in the future. Indeed, I am informed that Members of a county assembly are here to learn about procedures. I hope they do not learn this procedure, because it is not a right procedure. It should not be allowed to happen in this House.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I sit in the same Committee and I also sit in the other Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget. Where the same issue of Narok came up and was dealt with in the House. Sen. Murkomen rose because our Clerks who were supposed to have dealt with the Narok The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise under Standing Order No.90(3) which states as follows:- “It shall be out of order to use offensive or insulting language whether in respect of Senators or other persons.” You can read sub paragraph (4) for yourselves. Sen. Ntutu said some Senators in this House have received briefcases. Any of us could be mentioned in that list of Sen. Ntutu. I rise on this Standing Order to demand substantiation from Sen. Ntutu on who received briefcases - I assume - with money, as a form of bribery which was used to cover up the case of Narok. Otherwise, he should withdraw the statement.

I was very clear in my ruling, when I said that the use of the word “some” could refer to any one of us, not one particular person. What we would then seek is further clarification from the hon. Senator. He should give specific names. If he did, that would have been in order in that line of argument. But so far, I simply clarified that he did not mention any specific person.

He said “some Senators”. The word “some” could refer to anybody. There is no Senator in this House whose other name is “some.” So, I give the Floor to the Chairman to give his final submission on this matter and we bring it to a close.

Madam Temporary Speaker, have we found the Office of the Clerk in the wrong in terms of communication? Sen. Murkomen, you missed the debate last week. The reason the Clerk gave seven days is because last week we went through an e-mail and the same County Secretary (CS), requested for 14 days. However, the Speaker then indicated that this issue had been around for too long and, therefore, directed that the answer be given today. It was on the force of that that an e-mail was written and this CS then, confirmed that he would be ready today. So, the Office of the Clerk is not at fault. Madam Temporary Speaker, the final issue which I wish to clarify is the position by Sen. Ntutu. When I spoke of “lost funds”, I was basing that on the issues raised by Sen. Ntutu. We have found that in interrogating the position of collection vis-à-vis banking of funds in that county, in the month of February, Kshs21,686,950 was recorded as having been collected. However, the Kshs21 million did not arrive in their account in Co-operative Bank. In March 2014, a sum of Kshs17.2 million was collected. Again, it was not banked. Finally, a sum of Kshs14.9 million was collected, but it was not banked. A total sum of Kshs53 million. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senator, are you already answering this question?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am clarifying. He had asked where we are getting the figures of millions that we are mentioning. I am clarifying that this is evidence. His perpetual missing of meetings puts him at a disadvantage for him to make an intellectual and intelligent participation in this particular debate. Do not give the impression that our Committee is not up to the task. You are urged to attend meetings.

Order, Senators! That matter comes to an end. We must proceed. It is 3.50 p.m. It is now time for us to proceed with other matters of the Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, allow me to join you in welcoming the distinguished delegation from the great Vihiga County. I take this early opportunity to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. May I also take this opportunity to welcome members from Vihiga County Assembly. It is unfortunate that they came at a time that we had some issues among ourselves. However, they must be learning a lot. I hope they know that we, as the Senate, are here for them since we represent counties. We believe that they will deliver to the people of this country because we want devolution to succeed. It will not, if they will not be alert. No wonder my fellow Senator from Vihiga County was very much alert talking about parties. In the Committees, we do not work on the basis of our political parties, but we deal with issues pertaining to the people of this country. It was very unfortunate to mention political parties.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I join Sen. Khaniri and the House in welcoming the delegation of hon. Members and staff from Vihiga County Assembly. This is what we do in the Senate. We have just done our work; looking at the audited reports of the Auditor-General. However, allow me to read the role of the Senate Article 96(3) which says:- “The Senate determines the allocation of national revenue among counties, as provided for in Article 217, and exercises oversight over national revenue allocated to the county governments.” Madam Temporary Speaker, what is not mentioned here is the local revenue, which is similar to the one that we have just dispensed with on Narok County. I know in Vihiga County, you have a lot of bananas and businesses going on there, where local revenue is generated a lot. The role of the county assembly is to look at how the local revenue is actually spent and how work is being done. So, for most of the work that the Senate does, you are supposed to be the serious watchdog on the ground. You are the people that we depend on 100 per cent. If you go to bed with some governors, we are done. I thank them for coming and wish the people of Vihiga County well.

Madam Temporary Speaker, on my own behalf and the Committee on Devolved Government, I congratulate the team from Vihiga County led by my friend, Speaker Chitwa, whom we schooled together. This is really the kind of relationship that we should be having with county governments. This is the right place for them and where the Constitution mandates us to protect the interests of counties as passionately as we do, as well as protect the Constitution. I congratulate Sen. Khaniri and for avoidance of doubt, he is one of the most hard working Senators. In this House we call him the “Senator of rules”. His business is to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

There being no further requests on this, let us now move on to the next order. Sen. Murkomen, please, approach the Chair.

(Sen. Ongoro)

Madam Temporary Speaker, the Bill is being moved by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. then I will be seconding it.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to move the Bill for the Petition to County Assemblies (Procedure) Bill 2014 (Senate Bill No. 35 of 2014). I want to express in a usual manner my disappointment that we have taken too long debating this straight forward Bill and the Petition to County Assemblies. Without wasting time, the procedure for Petitioning the Senate under Article 119 is replicated in the Constitution under Article 37. For the avoidance of doubt and record, I would read into the record that every person has a right peacefully and unarmed to assemble, demonstrate, picket and present the Petitions to public authorities. The Legal Affairs Committee drafted a Bill that I am moving. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Senator! Conclude by moving. So far, you have not yet moved the Motion.

I now, with pleasure, beg to move that the Petition to County Assemblies (Procedure) Bill (Senate Bill No.35 of 2014), be now read a Second Time.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to second this important Bill. From the onset, I want to thank the Members of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. This is a Committee Bill. I want to thank the Chairman, the Attorney-General

and the Senator for Busia County, Sen. Wako, for his leadership together with serious members of that Committee. This Committee has sponsored several Bills. This is one of the many Bills sponsored by it. I want to thank Sen. Hassan of Mombasa County and take this opportunity to congratulate him for launching a strategic plan that we saw last week. This has put a number of young Senators on the spot in their counties. They include Sen. M. Kajwang, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., Sen. Murkomen and myself. The hon. Senators who are fairly older in the House have done a lot of things in their counties. The young team must work hard and emulate “Sen. Zarai” although we have always known him as Sen. Hassan Omar. During the launch, he was referred to as Sen. Zarai. I want to take this opportunity to thank them for the support they have given us in developing this Bill. Madam Temporary Speaker, this House has received many petitions. One of the reasons those petitions find their way to the Senate is that sometimes, people in our counties may not understand the procedures and opportunities available for them to present their petitions to county assemblies. It is important that we, as a House, should provide for a uniform legislation on procedure of petitioning the various county assemblies. We always receive petitions on issues that would easily fit in the mandate of the county assemblies. If members of the public are aware of the procedures and step by step processes of approaching the county assemblies, most likely many of them would present their issues to the county assemblies. This legislation goes a long way in ensuring that we increase the level of interaction and public participation between the residents and citizens of the various The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to support this Bill. Allow me to congratulate the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights for the foresight that it has demonstrated by coming up with this Bill. Madam Temporary Speaker, cases abound in many counties where the citizenry is held helpless. They want somewhere to go to and somebody to complain to about the many things that they witness on a day to day basis. We have got cases in many counties where members of the public are witnessing employees of the county government becoming overnight village millionaires. They see the investments that these officers are making and are hesitant as to whom to go to. Madam Temporary Speaker, they see unfair dishing out of contracts and tenders to specific people who are either friends or politically correct people to the governor and relatives of the governor. They, therefore, remain helpless as they have nowhere to go to. I know of a case in Kakamega County where the county government had a very nice project of putting up two Early Childhood Development Education (ECDE) classrooms in every primary school. In one instance, a contractor who is related to the procurement officer was given a whooping six schools to build in one sub-county. In the process, one individual, just for purposes of constructing four walls with doors and windows was given the monopoly of doing 12 classrooms. In a county of 2 million people like Kakamega, that cannot be justified in any way. Members of the public - Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. and Sen. Sang - through your industry, will have an opportunity to quickly approach the county assembly. I must thank you. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! Madam Temporary Speaker is no longer on this Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for alerting me. I am very sorry. For all the remarks I have made about Madam Temporary Speaker, I retract and replace them with, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we wonder what special talents the contractors of Asian origin have in Kakamega County that other contractors of different origins lack. This speaks to nothing, but just furtherance of corruption in our counties.

On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Who do you want to inform?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale that, perhaps, Kakamega County is benchmarking from the national Government who are dealing with contractors from China. I do not know whether this is correct benchmarking.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Are you informing him or asking a question?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am informing him that there are other scenarios that Kakamega County could be copying from.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You did not prosecute your information properly. Kindly do it properly.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform my distinguished colleague, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, that what is happening in Kakamega County is not unique. They are copying some bad manners from the national Government which is mostly soliciting contractors who are not locals.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, are you informed?

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am so obliged. Following quickly on that important piece of information, I am saddened and I wish to send a clear warning to the Committee on Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) because they have chosen simple projects like construction of a primary school and they have given to Asian contractors in Ikolomani. I was shocked that at Shiveye Primary and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, why are you referring to an unconstitutional organization such as CDF?

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for the correction. Unfortunately, at the moment, the court ruling allowed them to run the project for another 12 months before it is brought down. Therefore, we do not want to wait for too long. However, in any case, as Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo said, what applies in the national Government is slowly creeping into the devolved governments. Having said that, allow me to make observations on a few clauses. Clause 3(b) says that a Petition to a county assembly shall be in the form set out in the Schedule and shall be in English or Kiswahili, written in a respectable, decorous and temperate language. Our Constitution does not contradict what I am about to propose; allow for the people of Kakamega County, whose mother tongue is Luhya, if they so choose, to petition in Luhya language. It is not unconstitutional. If the people of Kiambu County, who speak very fluent Kikuyu and the county assembly, is not offended at having a petition read in the Kikuyu language, they be allowed. The same goes for the people of Bomet County in Kipsigis and Machakos County in Akamba language.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! Are you privy to Standing Orders at that level that declare only Swahili and English as the national languages?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, allow me to comment on what I understand by those Standing Orders. The Standing Orders of the Senate and the National Assembly are not the same as those of the county assemblies. So, they are not bound. We must let our languages grow. A community of 6 million people like the one I come from should not be gagged from expressing themselves using the language that they understand better. I know some hon. Senators whose names the Chair recalls have difficulties because they represent cosmopolitan counties. I do not want to be offensive to them, but I suggest this to counties where we have homogenous speaking of language. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Clause No. 5---

On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I only accept it if they are holding my time.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I support this, as complicated as it might, be by informing Members that the provision that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is talking about is also included in Article 7(3)(b) of the Constitution that says:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. (Dr.) Zani. You are a scholar and, therefore, you should read that phrase properly because Clause 7(1) and (2) is law. The Constitution mandates to be law that the official languages of the Republic of Kenya are Kiswahili and English. These are the languages to be used in all official transactions including legislative processes.

Order! Continue, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as you correctly---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Zani?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. As a scholar, the assertion that the “state will promote” allows us. This is not a static law. It is a law that is alive and to which we can make interpretations. The state here promotes. Therefore, even when we move into the debate of using indigenous languages because that will be a big debate within county assemblies, we need to put that into consideration.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. (Dr.) Zani. Are you doubting or in denial of the Chair’s ruling? You are treading on a very bad ground.

Continue, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was advancing a line of thought. It is important because my grandchildren might have the luck and opportunity to sit in this Senate. I want them – when they go to the library – to see the clarity of my thought on this very important issue. I want to bring to the attention of the House that I have just come from Belgium. I visited the Regional Parliament of Wallonia and the Regional Parliament of Flanders. In Flanders, they speak and translate everything in Dutch. However, in Wallonia, everything is in French. When they meet in the national Parliament in Belgium, they use both languages. They said that they will not allow one language to develop at the expense of the other. The Flemish Parliament has got a population of 3.5 million people and they have been given an opportunity to express themselves. What is this obsession of killing African languages just because we want to look learned and clever when we speak the Whiteman’s language? Is this not a form of colonisation which we are giving our children? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Not even so. I wonder which research he is referring to.

We cannot dispute his opinion. However, if he so wishes, he could enlighten us on the research.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is important because I am a medical expert. I cannot be responsible for anybody who does not want to take advantage of innovation. Innovation is such that even seated where you are, Senator, you can google “Learning in the first years of a child.” If you googled and went for the research, you will get the feedback and confirm what I am actually saying. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am very passionate about culture. Why do you want to kill the backbone of culture which is language? Is it just because my skin is not white, therefore, my language is a secondary language? That cannot be true. Anyway, it is a question of personal choice. Clause 5(4) states; the Clerk shall, within 15 days of the decision of the county assembly in writing, notify the petitioner the decision of the county assembly. I propose to the Committee for discussion to add sub-clause 5 so that it is Clause 5(5) to read: “The Clerk shall, within 30 days of the decision of the county assembly in writing, notify the Senate on the decision of the county assembly.” This is because there are such important decisions that will be made. The decisions might be challenging the comfort zone of the leadership of the county government, be it the executive of the county assembly. Let it be passed over to the Senate so that the respective Senator gives life to it to make sure that the views and desires of the populace in the county are not belittled. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to conclude by proposing that after Clause 7, we have Clause 8 which I suggest should read – not in those words by lawyers but it in a drafters language – that; Nothing in this Bill should be assumed to prevent any member of the public from presenting any matter to the Senate. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we do not want to shield the Senate away from the public by way of bringing petitions to us. We should not show or teach them that we are too big and, therefore, they are small people who should do things in the rural areas. If we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Then, you must actually come with a substantive Motion if you want to discuss about that.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not want to discuss about that. I just want to inform him in light of his industry. There are a number of youth we share who tweet to you and I. They tweet ---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. Could you address the Speaker?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am also aware that the Chair is very active on

and Facebook . It is only that we do not share friends that much. They were talking about the industry of Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. They said that he has, within a very short time, become almost what his father was in this Senate. I, therefore, encourage him to continue with the spirit. It is the integrity that he has that makes him admirable. The moment you lose it, that is the end. As they say in English, integrity is like virginity. You only lose---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Thank you for cutting off Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order!

Temporary Speaker, Sir, allow me to join my colleagues in making a contribution on this Bill. I have listened to the Mover of the Bill and the Seconder and the Members who have spoken before me, I found the Bill to be quite in order and my concern as usual is, after all these and after allowing members of the public to petition the County Assembly, then what, after that? County Assemblies have failed in so many ways from the governor downwards. For anybody to think that you can petition the county government and expect any concrete reaction---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): If I may inform you, Senator, there is a difference between the County Assembly and the county government. This Petition is to the County Assembly. I want you to make that distinction. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am aware of that. I was involved in the crafting that Constitution and, therefore, I understand what I am talking about very well. Perhaps I mixed the two.

(Sen. (Dr) Machage): It is all right.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I know there is the county government, the county Assembly and the county executive. In total, they form county governments. Following what the Mover said, there is a lot of merit in political science that the public is given an opportunity to say something, protest or to petition their county government and the county assembly for that matter. That is the message that the public is receiving. My question here is; after we got all those messages, we have tried as a Senate even to demand the appearance to our Committee of some Members of the County government but we have found it very difficult. There is something that we have not understood in the total set up or management of the county government or county assembly and so forth. I think it is important for Members of the Senate to start looking beyond what we see because there is a problem that we have not been able to discover. I hope it will be discovered very soon. The day that the Senate will decide now that they are here to represent the county government, they will want to understand how we want to represent them. Are we really representing them in the manner that you would comfortably think that I am really representing the county government? Are we in good harmony with the county government? Are we really working together? Unless Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. captures the reason why we are completely not in one team, between the counties and the Senate, we shall continue talking and thinking that we have done a very good thing to bring a Motion like this one. Even without this one, nobody had stopped members of the public to petition the county government. I do not think there is anybody who had said no. It is only the legal mechanism which was not there. Now with the legal mechanism, how is it going to improve the situation? We have been receiving petitions in this House. It is now going to two-and-a-half or three years, what remedy have we given every group of people that have petitioned this House? What answer have we ever given? I think it is high time we thought beyond our politics and saw the solution; and see why we were elected to this House. In fact, with your permission, we have gone too low as if we are Members of the National Assembly where they are free to ask all the questions they want to. But in this House, I think we cannot be so reckless as to just do things because they are there. We have to create a situation where we will be seen by the public as the House of mature people; people who really think, people who think of tomorrow. We are here to use their brains to make sure that we change this country. Even if we do not change this country, we should be very strong mediators between the county government, the national Government and the National Assembly. We can create that bridge and be seen to be there. For the Senator to come here and say my road has not been tarmacked, what does he expect the Member of the National Assembly to say? Someone was sacked, and he is now being promoted. These are politics of the National Assembly and we have to shift from this kind of politics and become responsible. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it, Sen. Ole Ndiema?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is the Senator for Laikipia in order to claim that Senators or this House is stagnating?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I think he is entitled to his opinion and rightfully so, to give a warning or an observation. It is all right, continue.

Those are my observations, and I think I am entitled to them.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. G.G. Kariuki, just continue, I have so ruled.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I keep on asking myself whether we are on the right course. Do we know where we are going? Is our mission properly considered? Do we have a mission? Where will the mission take us? If we know where we are going, all of us should endeavour to get there no matter what. However, here we keep saying that we are non-partisan. I have never seen any political set up where the issue of partisanship is not there.

We deceive ourselves all the time. We claim we are in the same blah blah and when things happen you find CORD in their meeting passing their own resolutions and TNA with their own, yet when they come here they just pretend to be together. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, time has come – a professor like you, I am following your nyayos, I am soon becoming one. I ask myself: Are we doing the right thing? Is that all there is in the Senate? Unless changes take place - these will be done by us. There is change of human nature. One can change his or her nature to become something else. We can forego our elections next time if some of us think that we can be elected by the Members of the County Assemblies (MCAs). Time has come for us to decide whether we shall be elected by the people through what we tell them and not through any other group of people. That is how some of us survive. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Thank you. There are two issues: First, Sen. G.G. Kariuki said that he did not want to debate. May I put it rightfully in the HANSARD that I actually gave him the opportunity because he requested to debate electronically? Secondly, maybe Sen. G.G. Kariuki has thrown very stinging observations which I will expect the Mover to reply to, especially so, just look at Clause 5 of the Bill; to remind Sen. G. G. Kariuki that the “so what?” question is adequately answered by the draft. Proceed, Sen. Hassan.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for this opportunity. I rise with similar hesitations as Sen. G.G. Kariuki in terms of the authority of the Senate but still with a lot of hope that the Senate can still put its act together as the principal guardian of devolution. At this point in time, surrender is not an option. As the Senate, we are duty bound to continue to propose all measures necessary towards the fulfilment of our mandate. This means that, as time progresses, we need to be extremely more creative in terms of circumventing the obstacles that are erected in our quest to defend devolution. This Bill is about oversight. It forces the participation of the people. It is a Bill in furtherance of Article 37 of the Constitution where this Senate has an obligation to ensure that we advance our constitutional order and practice through the legislative process. It accords the right to petition alongside other rights; including the right to picket, assemble and many other rights that are within the domain of the rights of the citizenry. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this Bill can also be read simultaneously with Article 185 of the Constitution which articulates the legislative authority of county assemblies and in particular Article 185(1) states:- “The legislative authority of a county is vested in and exercised by its county assembly” More importantly, Article 185(3), states:- “A county assembly, while respecting the principle of the separation of powers, may exercise oversight over the county executive committee and any other county executive organs.” This Bill and procedure to present petitions is in fulfilment of that constitutional obligation and mandate of the county assembly which makes it easy for members of the public who may not of essence be able to sit in county assemblies much in the same way The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Abdirahman, you are an old legislator and you know that standing between the Speaker and the Member on the Floor is not allowed. You must bend as you pass.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Mover and the Seconder of the Motion, Sen. Sang, who while commending me, said that we have put people under a lot of pressure. I have not put anyone under a lot of pressure. We must be creative as a Senate and, as respective Senators, we must stand together. If there is an issue that we must go to Laikipia County for, we must go as Senators. If there is something in Nandi County about oversight, we must go to Nandi County. If there is something about oversight in Makueni County, we must go to Makueni. The same applies to Homa Bay, West Pokot, Trans Nzoia and Migori counties. It is time we formed a conspiracy to fight corruption and lack of accountability in county governments and in both arms of county governments. We should participate collectively on issues that we need to discuss about accountability and there is a marauding governor who wants to frustrate everything. One of our Senators was disrupted when he wanted to empower the public. Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki needed to call us so that we face that governor head on. The police also needed to prosecute the disruptors of those rallies. We must have accountability forums across this country so that we capacitate our people. In the meantime, these petitions will be ready avenues. Nothing can preclude a petition presented before county assemblies and the Senate. It means that it does not exempt one from talking about accountability. It must not forestall or be a pre-emptive measure so that people may not discuss hefty issues around the county governments. Therefore, I share passionately in this Bill. I am waiting for that day when President Uhuru will sign it. I always see hon. Duale and Speaker Muturi at State House whenever the President is signing Bills. I am looking forward to seeing the Speaker of the Senate, hon. Ethuro, and the Senate leaders of Majority and Minority stand before the President so that he can also acknowledge the flagship of legislative processes that The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Are you on a point of order, Sen. Abdirahman?

No, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity to also support this Bill. In so doing, I would like to thank the Committee and appreciate them for being proactive in bringing this Bill that will go a long way in enabling the counties to provide better services to the residents of those counties. The Constitution has given the public the right to participate in all areas of governance but they have not been fully involved. We have had cases, for example, in budgeting and planning. There have been public participation forums which are academic exercises. As soon as those exercises are completed, public views are kept away and decisions are made independently by the executive and sometimes, by the county assemblies. There are situations when even the budget has been made on the basis of some public participation. However, in the middle of the year, the budget is overhauled without public participation in the name of supplementary or revised budget, where new issues are introduced, sometimes to the level of 80 per cent or more. Provisions for the petition are provided. It will go a long way in making it easy for the public to participate. Previously, the public even in those days when they could not petition, perhaps in writing, people were given the opportunity to participate through public barazas. Chiefs used to involve people in public barazas to get their views. There were times when people could give memoranda and they were accepted and responded to but as we speak, very few county governments participate in barazas, forums or even encourage people to present memoranda. This provision or formal establishment of a method of providing complaints is welcomed. However, other than legislating, there is need for civic education up to the grassroots on how such Bills and petitions can be drafted and presented. Not many people in the village will know, even after we have legislated, that there is a method of presenting their grievances. There are so many situations where county governments have not done what is expected of them. We have been confronted with issues of corruption in this Senate. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity. I would like to start by congratulating the Committee that worked on this Bill; my elder brother Sen. Mutula Kilonzo jnr., the seconder of the Bill, Sen Sang, and the entire Committee that ensured that this Bill comes to the Floor of the House. This is a straight forward Bill that should have been enacted much earlier. If you do a search on similar Bills, you will realize that the county assemblies of Nakuru, Laikipia, and Nairobi have already come up with similar Bills. This means that the Bill that we will come up with today will provide guidance to the rest of the counties that have not come up with such a Bill. If we will end up with 47 Bills and regulations on the same subject, there is a possibility that there could be some contradiction. It is a good thing that the Senate has seized the opportunity to come up with a Bill that will guide the rest of the counties. It is clear from the Constitution that every person has a right to petition a public authority; it is not only Parliament or the county assembly. Every person has a right to petition public authorities. That is contained in Article 37 of the Constitution. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage)

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Let me start by making a comment about something that Sen. G.G Kariuki said. I think it is important and I wish this Bill does get to the President for assent because this is one of the avenues that is going to be clear for us to do what Sen. Hassan Omar talked about; creating oversight for the public. They are the most critical. We have experienced it in the Senate where we have had many petitions coming in. As the Senate, we have had opportunity to discuss those petitions. What I like about these petitions - I have been happy to sit in some of the Committees, is that there is a lot of investigation that goes on. It creates an opportunity for people to be called, be they Members of County Assemblies, governors, County Executive Committees Members (CEC) or the Clerks of county assemblies, and asked questions. When they come and give this information, it means they are really opening and giving a lot of light about some of the questions that may be the petitioner has asked about. As they do that, because Committees are open and I believe also Committees at the county assemblies are open and that we should encourage more people to come to those Committees to listen, then it gives more information to the public. Even though under the Constitution, every citizen has a right to access information, the procedure and the process for doing this is not clear. Remember, we are coming from a state of repression where people did not ask questions and felt they cannot question the Government, where people felt they wait and whatever services they are given, they are lucky to have those services. The Constitution of Kenya 2010 has opened up the space for Kenyans. If Kenyans do not take this space now, we will never get another chance because the power of the people is insurmountable. It is a power that nobody is able to replace. All citizens should seek answers for issues that those answers are not given. They should come out of the market place, go to the governor’s office, County Assembly, galleries, listen and ask questions and even demand that all these things that are in the strategic plans eventually be implemented, and ensure that the projects that were promised within the specific counties have been adhered to and that those specific projects have been actualized. They can ask about the costs or the contactors. For devolution to work, Article 10, and especially the principles of Article 10, specifically public participation cannot be ignored. That is why I support the view that people should now have that civic education. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I am also curious to know the petition so referred to by Sen. M. Kajwang, having been thrown out by a committee. That is completely unprocedural. If that happened, then, the committee breached the laws of this House. It did not obey the command of the Speaker which is very explicit in Standing Order No.227(2) which states that; the report shall – you are not persuaded – be tabled in this House in whichever form. In any case, if a committee receives a report and thinks that it is not the right committee, then, it has an opening to write back to the Speaker for redirection of the same. Therefore, I order that you furnish the Speaker with more information on that petition that was just casually thrown out of a committee. I would like to see that. That is an order.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. When this particular matter that I alluded to in my contribution came to the committee, we assessed whether it was within the mandate of that particular committee. When we realised that the issues were extraneous – not relating to the committee – we, as a committee, resolved to advise the House that the petition should be committed to the relevant committee. We did not throw it out of the Senate but wanted it directed to the right room within the correct House; that is the Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well, you maybe have put it better now. I may rest with that but not in peace. I hope that is what happened. At least, it sorts out the statement you had earlier made which was very serious for the Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will be very brief in the interest of the other contributors and also so that I can take over my duties which are well known to you. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Indeed Sen. Murkomen if you look at the regulations for the submission of a petition, one of the requirements is that--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

The Temporary Speaker, Sir, that is why I am saying it is important. I listened to the Mover also but I have also read that one of the key issues is to ensure that there are no multiple processes that are going on, people are not tabling a petition at the same time there are other processes out there, so that in the petition, there is a clear declaration that there is no pending matter or process that is going on in the court. I think one thing that we might need to include in this Bill is the fact that we must make it mandatory that the county assembly during the day that the petition is being debated or at the time that the final verdict is being made, that at least, they ensure that an invitation is extended to the petitioner so that they can come and sit in the gallery where they will follow the proceedings on the petition. Sometimes, some petitions are related to special groups, persons with disabilities, minority communities in the county, elderly people and so forth. If they want to arrange themselves and come and to listen what procedures are going on in the House, we need to provide for that mandatory requirement that the petitioner be invited during the day that the debate is going on, through an extended invitation. He may come or not. That should not tie the county assembly from proceeding with the petition but give him that option of being able to sit in the gallery, listen to the petition and appreciate what is going on. As I conclude, I want to say that county assemblies are very important for this country. They are important for economic growth in the counties. Today, we were discussing with some of the County Assemblies Forum Members who came to our Committee, and it is important that county assemblies have a bigger picture for the country and for the county. This idea of a welfare State where county assemblies agree that let all the money be divided to every sub-location, there is no planning about major projects in the county. You find now in the desire to please everybody, counties are dividing money into very little fractions that are distributed to every sub-location and when you want to look at what major project is going on in that county, you do not find it. What major road they are investing in, you do not find because they have distributed the money thin. We must tell the county assemblies to begin thinking big. We must also not berate the county assemblies. I know sometimes – I saw my county assembly, and you must have read in the newspaper; they were being accused of travelling to Brazzaville. What the public must be informed is that county assemblies have that power to travel. The question should be: Are they travelling for the purpose that was intended? Is the resource being used or are they diverting resources beyond that which was meant for that purpose? It will be unfair, for example, in my county, the Members of County Assembly (MCAs) are being accused of going to the All Africa Games yet more than five Senators were with them. Members of the National Assembly were also there, and I know them. It is important also that we do not have unfair treatment of county assemblies even where we, as legislators, go through a similar process. However, it is important that county resources must be used prudently for the purpose which they are intended. It must be used for the purpose that the people intended through the County Integrated Development Plan (CIDP). The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for allowing me also to contribute to this very important Bill which was processed through the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. From the outset, I want to say that through this Bill, the Senate will play its rightful role as the protector and promoter of the interests of the county as clearly defined in our Constitution. This particular Bill will help standardize as is clearly spelt out here, the manner in which petitions will be laid out to county assemblies. Unless we do that, knowing the level of our county assemblies, we will not make any meaningful progress or presentations. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

There being no other contributor, I invite the Mover to reply.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank the Senators who have contributed to this Bill; Sen. Sang, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, Sen. G.G. Kariuki, Sen. Hassan, Sen. Ndiema, Sen. M. Kajwang, Sen. Murkomen, Sen. (Dr.) Zani, Sen. Abdirahman, among others. There is a general consensus that there has been a problem, this is a pioneer Bill of the Senate and there is need for the watchman to be watched as stated by Sen. Hassan under Article 185 and Article 186. I would like to respond to some of the concerns particularly of Sen. (Dr.) Zani and Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale on language and promotion of the different languages. The purpose of having this kind of method; for it to be transparent and for there to be a good record, just like they do it in courts, a person can be allowed to petition in a language he understands best but that petition ideally ought to be translated into a manner that conforms to the Constitution because those are the two official languages. We have not managed to translate the Constitution into Kiswahili; leave alone the fact that we are now talking about many other languages, indigenous as they may be. Therefore, my view is that for the time being, for purposes of having good order and good record, we should have this in a language that is official even if it has to be translated so that a petition filed in Nakuru, in English or Kiswahili can also form precedence on a petition filed in Turkana, on a similar issue. That is how ideally we do it. However, for purposes of communication so that people can understand the details of the petition, I do not see any objection to a person presenting a petition in a language they understand best. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the questions addressed by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and the Deputy Minority Leader, Sen. Abdirahman, on a method of checking that the county assemblies do not turn into another theater of the absurd; where these petitions are turned The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

It is so ordered. Next Order!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that The Office of the County Printer Bill (Senate Bill No. 42 of 2014), be now read a second time. I wish to move this Bill and before I do that, I want to appreciate and congratulate this House today, because we have just concluded the Second Reading on a very important Bill which is The Petition to County Assemblies Bill. As we all know, the role of the Senate is to protect and serve the interests of counties. For quite a while now, this Senate has deliberated on very crucial Bills. Despite the challenges that we face as Senate, despite the kind of not so very good gesture that we receive from the county governments and the county executives most specifically, this House continues to discharge its responsibility of ensuring that we have the necessary legislations in the counties that facilitate and support devolution in counties. One such Bill is the one that we have concluded in terms of providing a framework for the engagement by members of the public with the county assemblies through petitions. Today, again, we have the opportunity to discuss The Office of the County Printer Bill. One of the greatest challenges that have come with devolution is that we now have 47 legislative authorities in our counties; the 47 county assemblies whose The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Sen. Sang! You still have 50 minutes to prosecute this Bill tomorrow.

Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30 p.m. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, 23rd September, 2015, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.