(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, hon. Members. Hon. Senators, as you may recall, yesterday, Wednesday, 19th November, 2014, I made a communication regarding the passing on of the Senator for Homa Bay County, the late Sen. Otieno Kajwang. In the communication, I indicated that the two Speakers have constituted a committee comprising of Senators and Members of the National Assembly to assist in the funeral arrangements of our departed colleague. Hon. Senators, I now wish to inform you that the committee met today and agreed that a visit by all Members of Parliament to condole with the family in their Runda residence, Nairobi, be made on Tuesday 25th November, 2014, at 9.30 a.m. I repeat, Tuesday, 25th November, 2014, at 9.30 a.m. In this regard, pool transport has been organized and we will depart from Parliament Buildings at 9.00 a.m. on the said day. Due to logistical challenges including parking space, hon. Members are requested to make use of the pool transport to and from the residence. Other funeral arrangements including the burial date will be announced later after consultations with the family of the late Senator. Thank you.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Hon. Members, there are two petitions before us today.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the said county is the county that I represent in this Senate. I must admit that I am shocked that all these allegations are being made. These are many and serious allegations. Obviously, if these allegations turn out to be true or if, it is, indeed, true that this is happening, then this will definitely hamper the operations of the County Assembly of Vihiga. I want to agree with the petitioner that the Senate should urgently investigate this matter and come up with a solution, if this is happening. I would urge that this matter be referred to the relevant committee, I think the Committee on Devolved Government headed by my good brother and friend, Sen. Murkomen.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I want to seek your guidance on this matter. First, the petition is about the County Assembly. In my view, county assemblies enjoy the same traditional parliamentary immunities and privileges as institutions. I wonder, with an assembly in place, if there are issues regarding employees or the clerk, whether it would not be appropriate for matters regarding the people who are working for that Assembly to be handled by the relevant county assembly rather than the Senate being called upon? I want your guidance on whether it is appropriate for the Senate to be involved.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Whereas I was thinking very hard to rule you out of order, but I think you have a legitimate concern. This Senate accepts petitions, even from individuals or from assemblies. This petition is quite in order to be before us. I will rule on which Committee will look at it. The Committee will decide on whether what you are thinking is appropriate or not. They will scrutinize the petition. To complete the information to you, if you could read Article 119(1) and (2) of the Constitution. I will not read it for you, you have the Constitution with you. Also read Standing Order Nos.226 and 227.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to put on record my appreciation of the patriotic son of Vihiga County, Mr. Obuga, who has brought this petition before us. Indeed, the matters prayed for by Mr. Obuga not only affect Vihiga County but also obtain in a number of other counties. I can see two arms to that petition, issues that might require the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare to address and others to be addressed by the Committee on Devolved Government. I, therefore, suggest that it might be useful if this matter will receive a joint sitting of the two committees. I would like to suggest further, that as they look at this petition, they consider the possibility of expanding the mandate while looking at this issue, by way of putting in the media an advertisement that will invite members of the public from that county with views or other counties with similar views to come before them. I say this because the County Service Board of Kakamega County, for example, has three times re-advertised for ward administrators because of many things but mainly some of the things that Mr. Obuga has prayed for. I, therefore, would like to urge the Chair to consider whether that The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is a serious issue because we have cases where the county assemblies are not operating like Isiolo County Assembly. I do not know how far this issue has gone. The last time we instructed the Committee on Devolved Government to sort out that issue within three weeks. However, to the best of my knowledge, we have not received any report to that effect. We are seeing serious issues coming up. It is better we handle this issue because as the Senate, we are supposed to protect county governments and make sure they take off. It is evident they already have problems which need to be sorted out. So, I support that the petition be handled by the relevant committee and the issues be sorted out quickly.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there was a time we went for a recess for about one or two weeks so that we could be able to look into the affairs of Makueni, Isiolo and other counties. Vihiga County was not mentioned. Now that the issue of Vihiga County Assembly has come up and we had set aside that recess to sort such crisis, I am sure there are more counties which might come up with similar cases. I thought that the Committee Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale chairs should embrace more counties with the example of this one.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Yes, Sen. Murungi. I see you standing. Your request is not showing here.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is showing I have put the request.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I am not seeing that here. Okay, just proceed.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this petition is properly before this House because it falls squarely within the mandate of the Senate as spelt out in Article 96(1) of the Constitution which requires us to represent and protect the interests of the counties and their governments. It is our constitutional duty, as the Senate, to ensure the proper functioning not only of the County Executives, but also of the county assemblies because it is one way of protecting the interest of counties. There are many situations like what has been highlighted in that petition across the country. We should not shy away from our responsibility. Standing Order No.219 provides for the procedure and the definition. Therefore, we should proceed with the petition as forwarded.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first, I would like to congratulate the petitioner. One of the greatest benefits of the new Constitution is that the public have an opportunity to participate in law making and petitioning Parliament directly as a right under Article 119. Even more importantly is to see that many Kenyans have faith in this House. The number of petitions that have come in demonstrates that in matters of county government, the people of Kenya have a lot of faith in the Upper House. Article 96 is very sanctified. It says that our responsibility, and it is the first responsibility, is to protect counties. The petitioner rightfully is concerned about the operations and functions of the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Can you summarise? We only have 30 minutes to look at this.

I am almost concluding, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am just saying that we know that the County Assembly Service Board is so lean that sometimes it is the Speaker, Majority and Minority leaders and one other person from outside. Sometimes that small component is subject to a lot of pressure and manipulation unlike the County Public Service Board (CPSB) that has outsiders appointed, as many as possible, who can look at the interests of the people. Therefore, the other step going further is for that Committee to recommend to us whether we need to change the structure of management of the county assemblies, if need be, so that they can be more democratic and representative of the people.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I fully agree that, that petition is properly before the House and it needs to be executed. However, my worry is: What is the result at the end? Are there mechanisms to enforce the decisions of this House? We had the Isiolo case and the Committee reported how the Speaker did not show respect to the Committee that summoned him, speaking while smoking before them and answering phones and putting his legs on the table---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I would rather you rule the Member out of the order because the Committee has not tabled the report in this House. The Committee is scheduled to meet the Member and other legislators from Isiolo County. I would rather we do not use the issue of Isiolo in detail.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I rule you out of order. The issue of Isiolo County has been mentioned by Sen. Hargura.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir I do not want to go into the issue of Isiolo, all I want to know is: what mechanisms are there to enforce whatever decisions that the House comes up with?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well, Sen. Ndiema! Be brief because you have three minutes only. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I agree that this petition is rightly before this House. We should expect more once we enter into this one because quite a number of counties are experiencing almost similar problems. Trans Nzoia County has also had a problem and perhaps if we intervene, the issue of running to court will be obviated. This is because the courts take long and in the meantime, services stall. I support the initiative.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Hon. Members, pursuant to Standing Order No.227 (1), I therefore rule the following:- The petition stands committed to the relevant Standing Committee, in this case; the Standing Committee On Finance, Commerce And Budget, and in terms of Standing Order 227 (2), the Committee will be required in not more than 60 days from the time of reading the prayer to respond to the petition by way of report addressed to the petitioner and laid on the Table of the Senate. I also rule that where necessary, the Committee should enjoin the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare, the Sessional Committee on Devolved Government and the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee.

On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it?

On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. During the interventions that Members made, the issue of Isiolo and Makueni counties came up. One of the Members, on a point of order, was wondering when the results of the two week recess that we took shall be tabled in this House. Could you give an indication when the Committee on Devolved Government is going to give us a feedback because we are very anxious about the County Government of Makueni? This is especially in view of the fact that they are considering dissolution of that government.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): The Chairperson of the Committee on Devolved Government is here. Can you shade some light on that?

Thank You, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, ---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Hold on, there is an addendum.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, suggesting addendum to what Sen. Khalwale has raised, Standing Order 227 (2) gives the Committee 60 days within which to report back to this House. This happened about a month and a half ago and we realize that we are going for recess. Therefore, if this does not happen in the next week or so, then we will have flouted the provisions of Standing Order 227 (2).

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first of all, time has not lapsed yet when it comes to the two committees in terms of the 60 days; it is not yet 60 days since we were given that responsibility on the Floor of the House. Most importantly, the Committee decided in consultation with the Speaker that we could not proceed with the Makueni case because of what was decided in this House. Once they decided to go to court, it was impossible to canvass the issues without interfering with the court decision. Under the Standing Orders and the law, we could not proceed with the Makueni issue. In the case of Isiolo, we are almost completing. We also had a few challenges to do with court issues. However, when we table it in a few days, you will know some of the issue. The report will be in this House before we go on recess. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Mr. Chairperson, I wonder what a report means to you. Even reporting to us that there were issues on Makueni and the court case, it is all the same a report. We need that on the Floor of this House. You are quite out of order to assume that we should assume that way. We want that report, and I order in one week’s time, for Makueni because you already have the report.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you have made a decision and I cannot go against the Speaker.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Thank you very much.

Not you, the Temporary Speaker.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order!

The main Speaker has made a decision.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order. I may throw you out of this House for disrespecting the Chair.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank you for that ruling about the issue of Makueni. This is because that directive ---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, is it a ruling really?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Murkomen. I know it may not be fair to you but it is a ruling all the same.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is a ruling. I want to thank you for that and on a serious note, over and above what you said, that even if they chose on technicalities to terminate, they should have come and reported to the House formally. Our other fear, was that probably the Committee never got seized of the matter because immediately after we allowed the Committee to visit Makueni, we saw the Committee at The Hague ---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. You are depicting that Committee in bad repute in this House and I will not allow that. You do not know the timings of the meetings and you are not entitled to comment on when they met.

You are quite out of order. I will rule this way on the request of Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale; that this petition includes other counties, I say, no. This is a specific petition and it will be handled as such. On the issue of Isiolo, please, fast track the report, may be two weeks is not too much. If there is a problem, let us know.

For the records, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we can submit the one line report on Makueni on Thursday next week.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Murkomen. A report is a report. Whether it is a one word report or a one line report or a twenty page, all the same, it is a report. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

That is why I have said Thursday next week, Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir. ESTABLISHMENT OF COMMISSION TO INVESTIGATE BOUNDARY DISPUTE BETWEEN LAIKIPIA AND NYANDARUA COUNTIES

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): The second petition is from Hon. Jeremiah Kioni, concerning the boundary between Nyandarua and Laikipia counties. Hon. Senators, pursuant to Standing Order Nos. 220 (1) (a) and 225 (2) (b), I hereby report to the Senate that the petition has been submitted by hon. Jeremiah Kioni through the Clerk requesting the Senate to expeditiously form an independent commission for the purpose of investigating the boundary dispute between Nyandarua and Laikipia counties. This will be with a view to considering the probable scenario of altering the said boundary and placing Nyahururu Town in Nyandarua County. I repeat: This will be with a view to considering the probable scenario of altering the said boundary and placing Nyahururu Town in Nyandarua County. Hon. Jeremiah Kioni, the petitioner is a citizen of Kenya and a resident of Nyandarua County. Hon. Senators, in his petition, the petitioner states the following:- (a) THAT, the Independent Government of 1963 created Nyandarua as a settlement area from part of the Rift Valley namely; Laikipia and Naivasha. It also made Nyahururu Town its headquarters. (b) Subsequently and over the years, the Government continued to invest in Nyahururu Town. The said developments span a district hospital and other healthcare facilities. There is also Nyandarua Police Headquarters, Nyandarua County Council Headquarters, Nyahururu Municipal Council offices, educational institutions including Nyandarua and Nyahururu high schools; tertiary colleges and universities, prison facilities, law courts and district land offices, among others. (c) In 1990s Nyandarua Town was moved to Laikipia District, currently, Laikipia County. (d) Since then, there has been a spanning dispute of a boundary between Laikipia and Nyandarua counties, a matter compounded by the fact that the Government made no further efforts to create and develop an alternate headquarters for the then Nyandarua District but continued investing financially in Nyahururu Town. Indeed, the people of Nyandarua continued investing, working in and building Nyahururu Town. (e) To date, Nyahururu County Government has no alternative facilities to enable it to effectively discharge its mandate and cannot make use of the facilities in Nyahururu as they are administratively located in Laikipia County. The County Assembly of Nyandarua has also been holding its sittings and meetings in churches and hotels.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The petitioner has a point. First of all, the issue of Nyahururu is one which I have variably tried to get the support of the Government through the House and otherwise to develop the headquarters for Nyandarua County. The genesis of that, as the petitioner said, is that the year 1963, when we got Independence found Nyahururu where it is as a town in the Rift Valley. When Nyandarua District was formed, the Government built the facilities for the headquarters in Nyahururu. This went on and on so that all the hospitals, the education facilities, prison and all other facilities were built in Nyahururu, all this time geographically in Laikipia and, therefore, in Rift Valley as opposed to being in Nyandarua County which is in central region. To cut a long story short, in all the years, the residents of Nyandarua and Laikipia who were being served by government facilities like the hospital in Nyahururu were not concerned about the location of the facilities. However, with the new Constitution, we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Unfortunately, the petitioner has not requested us to look at moving that headquarters to Ol Kalou. You should be careful on how you comment on this issue.

The petitioner is asking that we look into commissioning alteration of the boundary to bring Nyahururu into Nyandarua County. I was only giving the background and I have finished to that extent.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Okay, continue.

As it stands now, I, certainly, as the Senator for Nyandarua County, support that the commission be set up to look into this matter. I believe Sen. G.G Kariuki is around. He can also say something. Thank you very much.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Then, let us make brief comments so that I can listen. There are very many requests here and we are limited to only 30 minutes for everybody to have contributed.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. I have just come in, to find that the issue concerns my county and Nyandarua County.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order. Let us consult in low tones so that we can listen to Sen. G.G Kariuki.

When I came in, I found that the matter on the Floor concerns Laikipia and Nyandarua counties. No one objects to any petition, because the petitioners may have a good reason for doing what they want to do. However, I would like to say that this matter has been there for many years. At one time, the Government wanted Nyahururu to be included in Nyandarua as a new district, but because of many districts which wanted the same to happen, the Parliament of the day did not find any logical reason to transfer or extend the boundaries of Nyandarua inside Laikipia because there are many other counties with the same problem. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Okay, Sen. Munyes.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Likewise, I want to support this petition. I look at it as a petition that is affecting many other counties. We have about 22 counties which have boundary disputes, in form of alteration and people disputing the acreage in their various counties. If I heard clearly, the prayer in this petition is for peace to prevail. That sentence is exactly what is causing the conflict in northern Kenya and the Rift Valley. In Turkana, Baringo and West Pokot, the conflict there is because of a boundary dispute. If we get a commission that will look at all these counties, we will reduce these conflicts by 50 per cent. The main cause of the massacres that we seen in Baringo, Turkana and West Pokot, is because people have boundary disputes. I want to mention that and say that maybe we should expand this and form a commission that will look in totality at the conflicts in over 22 counties. Thank you Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that petition is very significant in the view of the challenges that are being experienced in many parts of this country. I know there are some other counties where investigations have been done. However, in view of what some of the Senators have said, the fact that petitions can be brought by an individual Kenyan sometimes not probably with the best intention. I want to suggest that maybe in the committees that we will be looking at this, if they include in their recommendations a process for bringing such a petition, especially the one regarding boundaries, to be a bit more elaborate and not an individual’s petition because the very fact that a petition on boundaries is placed before the Senate, could sometimes trigger some tension in some areas. Maybe in their recommendations, I would want to urge that the committee comes up with the process for initiating this kind of thing from the grassroots, so that their leaders are involved in the process before it comes to the House. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it, Sen. Murungi?

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise on a point of order to challenge the competence of this petition.

Article 188 (1) and (2) of the Constitution is very clear and it states that:- (1) The boundaries of a county may be altered only by a resolution— (a) recommended by an independent commission set up for that purpose by Parliament; and (b) passed by— (i) the National Assembly, with the support of at least two-thirds of all of the Members of the Assembly; and (ii) the Senate, with the support of at least two-thirds of all of the county delegations. (2) The boundaries of a county may be altered to take into account— (a) population density and demographic trends; (b) physical and human infrastructure; (c) historical and cultural ties; (d) the cost of administration; (e) the views of the communities affected; (f) the objects of devolution of government; and (g) geographical features. It is not very clear how that commission which will be recommended by the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) - because we can only set up the commission by making a recommendation to the IEBC. The Senate cannot deal with issues of alteration of the boundary. We can only recommend a commission to be formed by the IEBC at the initial stage. The Senate can only deal with it after it has been dealt with by the National Assembly. The gist of that petition is to alter the boundary by transferring Nyahururu from Laikipia to Nyandarua. That would clearly offend Article 188 of the Constitution.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I would like to support the King for Meru about the validity of this petition.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Is that a recognized title? There are very Kings in this House.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is because we are very close in our other lives and so---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. Proceed. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the fulcrum of those prayers is Nyahururu Town; everything else that you have said rotates around Nyahururu Town. According to this Constitution, Article 188 (2) reads:- “The boundaries of a county may be altered to take into account the following: Population density and demographic trends, physical and human infrastructure, historical and cultural ties, the cost of administration, the views of the communities affected, the objects of devolution of Government and geographical features”. That is the clearly set out criteria. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in none of these items do you find the issue of town as a consideration for the boundaries to be altered. Secondly, the nearest that that petition goes is the wish of the community. Given that the petitioner has not given evidence of having consulted communities that live within this county, he would be moving on assumption on a matter with grave constitutional implications. This House has already made a decision on the issue of Nyahururu Town through a Bill which I sponsored and which I am waiting that the President gives assent to. In that decision, this House decided after I went and consulted the County Assembly of Laikipia and the County Assembly of Laikipia and made a resolution through a Motion that went through that county and the resolution was that Nyahururu is in Laikipia and that the headquarters of the county assembly would move to Nyahururu. That particular resolution was not opposed by any Senator on this Floor. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my final consideration on constitutionality is that in the same decision of this House. Ol Kalou was identified unanimously as---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Remember you stood on a point of order and yet you are taking too long. You have to shorten it.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Ol Kalou was identified as the seat of government of the County Government of Nyandarua. Why can the engineer not approach the Government to look for more funds to go and build the headquarters in Ol Kalou instead of breaching the Constitution?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, please, let us have decorum and respect Members of the House. Address the Chair.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I therefore finally say that constitutionally, the petition does not seem to be admissible.

(Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale): Now, I have six requests for points of order. Sen. Kagwe!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I just wanted to get clarity on this. I do not know whether I am the only one who is lost as far as this discussion is concerned, but clearly I am. I wanted to understand where the opposition is, because if I remember correctly, when you read the petition, it was basically asking for an independent commission to be set up to determine the boundaries. Could the Chair clarify whether that is what was being sought?

(Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale): Indeed, Sen. Kagwe, I do not see what the hullabaloo is about because some of these issues will be determined by the relevant Committee that I am about to order to take over this matter and they will address all these issues. So, really, we should not turn this House into that Committee. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was about to contribute to the ongoing debate, but because of the other two points of order which were raised, I do not think this House can transform itself into an independent commission. I think this House is the voice of the counties and I do not think that the people of Nyandarua and even hon. Kioni, a former Member of Parliament who brought this Petition is on the wrong because as far as we are concerned, this is where he should seek guidance. This petition will be referred to a Committee of this House as you are about to order, for directions and so let us not jump the gun.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think the issue raised by Sen. Murungi is very crucial in the sense that the provisions of the Constitution under Article 188 (1) (a) talk of the boundaries of a county being altered only by a resolution recommended by an independent commission set up for that purpose by Parliament. The point is that we already have an independent commission which is the IEBC. The Parliament of Kenya has already set up that commission, so that petitioner has a valid issue but he is bringing it to the wrong chamber because the role of the Senate comes after the commission has recommended. I think it suffices to say that the petitioner has come to the wrong institution but not to discredit the petitioner because he has a valid point on the boundaries and we only need to advise that he should take it to the right institution instead of tearing into a petition by an individual who has a constitutional right to raise an issue.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I have listened to all your comments and they are all valid. I have listened to the various articles of the Constitution quoted, but the petitioner has a right to petition this House on any issue that he deems necessary to be listened to and he will be given that right. Therefore, pursuant to Standing Order No.227 (1), the petition stands committed to the relevant Standing Committee, in this case the Standing Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. In terms of Standing Order No.227 (2), the Committee will be required in not more than 60 days from the time of reading the prayer – that is today – to respond to the petitioner by way of a report addressed to the petitioner and laid on the Table of this Senate. I want the Committee to carefully interrogate the HANSARD on the comments that have been made on the Floor of this House today as they give their report to this House. Next Order!

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I beg to lay the following paper on the Table of the Senate, today, Thursday 20th November, 2014:- Report of the Standing Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries on public hearings held on 30th July, 2014, on the Potato Produce and Marketing Bill (Senate Bill No. 22 of 2014). The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. Yes, Sen. Kagwe.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I beg to lay the following papers on the Table of the Senate, today, Thursday 20th November, 2014:- Report of the Committee---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki, I see you have an intervention. Are you on a point of order?

Sorry, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. It was a point of order when Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale was speaking, but it has passed.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. Please, proceed, Sen. Kagwe.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate, today, Thursday 20th November, 2014:- REPORT OF THE ICT COMMITTEE ON RETREAT Report of the Committee on Information, Communication and Technology Retreat on “Reflecting on the past one year and re-strategizing” held at the Mombasa Continental Resort between 22nd and 25th May of 2014. REPORT OF THE ICT COMMITTEE ON STUDY VISIT TO UAE Report of the Committee on Information, Communication and Technology on a study visit to the United Arab Emirates between 20th and 25th January, 2014 and the Seventh Annual Global Education Forum held between 2nd and 7th March, 2014.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Next Order.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. Next Order.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Statement by the Senate Majority Leader?

Please, proceed, Sen. Gwendo. IMPLEMENTATION STATUS OF THE REPORT OF THE PRESIDENTIAL TASKFORCE ON PARASTATAL REFORMS

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget regarding the implementation status of the report of the Presidential Taskforce on Parastatal Reforms which was presented to H.E. the President on 12th November, 2013. This Report recommended the amalgamation of the Kenya Tourism Board with the Export Promotion Council and the Kenya Investments Authority and Brand Kenya into one agency, which was to be called the Kenya Investment Authority. In the Statement, the Chairperson should explain why the amalgamation has not been done to date. The Statement should also state whether he is aware this has disrupted the operations of the Kenya Tourism Development Cooperation because its board of management has not been in operation since then. The Statement should also explain when the amalgamation process will be expedited and the boards of management appointed. Lastly, in the Statement, the Chairperson should state whether eligible investors who are interested in hotel development could access development loans while the finalization of the amalgamation process is awaited. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Statement sought by the hon. Senator is very important. I am glad that she raised it because many people – I think including most of us here – have been concerned as to why the Government has not been able to fill in many of the positions that are vacant in a number of boards in this country. The reason has always been because of the pending reorganization of the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Is two weeks okay?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am afraid we will be on recess by then. Why do we not have it at least before recess because, as you can see, the process has been long overdue?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I agree that this is a Report that was submitted to the Head of State. There is nothing to go and research on. Make it one week please.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this information can only be given through the Cabinet Secretary (CS). We have the whole of next week to try and get hold of them so that we can respond next Tuesday but one, and the House will still be in session.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): The Chairperson’s request is not too much to accommodate, in view of his reasons. Two weeks; it is so ordered. MEASURES TO RESOLVE BORDER DISPUTES AND CONFLICTS BETWEEN VARIOUS COUNTIES

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Security and Foreign Relations as follows:- Given the deteriorating security situation in the country, violence and the loss of lives arising from resource conflicts in poorly demarcated border areas and the very clear definition of the county boundaries in Article 6(1) as read with the First Schedule of the Constitution and the Provinces and Districts Act of 1992; request is hereby made to the Chairperson of Committee on Security and Foreign Relations to give a comprehensive statement from the Cabinet Secretary detailing: 1. The current situation on border disputes and conflicts between various counties in Kenya and the measures that the Government is taking to resolve those conflicts 2. In the particular case of Meru County, the measures that the Government is taking to point out the beacons and demarcate the boundaries between Meru and Isiolo counties and between Meru and Tharaka-Nithi counties. 3. Finally, the Chairperson of the Committee to lay on the Table of the House the Report of the task force on the Meru, Tharaka-Nithi boundary which is popularly known as the Ogongo Report and give specific timelines and the resources allocated for the implementation of that Report. I thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am a Member of the Committee. I am informed that the Chairperson and the Vice-Chairperson are not in the Chamber. If I am allowed, I will give some undertaking to answer these questions by Thursday next week.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. It is so ordered.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise on a point of order to seek a Statement from the Chairperson--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Order! Let us all understand the process and procedure. Before you put a request for a Statement from any Chairperson, the Speaker must be privy to what you are just about to request and it must be signed. Have you done the same? I do not have the information.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I had requested for a Statement and it was promised to be given in two weeks. I am still waiting for the Statement.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You are asking when your Statement will come and not for a new Statement. Okay! Go ahead. CRITERIA USED FOR SELECTION OF CONSTITUENCIES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TECHNICAL TRAINING INSTITUTES

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I expect a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Education, Science and Technology. It relates to the selection of 60 constituencies. I was promised a month ago that it would be delivered after two weeks. I am still waiting for it.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): That is unfair to the gracious lady. Is the Chair of the Committee not here? Senate Majority Leader?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, is it in response to Sen. Kittony?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Yes. Are you able to do that?

I am not able to do it, but I undertake to inform him.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Who is representing the Senate Majority Leader today?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Chairman of the Committee should deal with it.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Chair, can we hear from you?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as a responsible Member of this House, I will inform the Chair, so that he can deliver the Statement next week.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. I understand the dilemma in which Sen. Murungi and Sen. Murkomen found themselves. But I have to reprimand the Majority leadership which is expected to be present always in this House to listen to requests. We will not accept these flaws in this House.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Senate Majority Leader is a Member of the Committee on the funeral of our late colleague, Sen. Kajwang, and I am also a Member of that Committee. He has escorted some dignitaries to visit the family together with the Senate Minority Leader. So, they are not here because of the duties that we allocated to them. However, there also must be responsibility in terms of the Committee on Education, Science and Technology. The Chairperson, Sen. Karaba, was The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well, Sen. Murkomen. We appreciate the duties that the Senate Majority Leader is doing today in honour of our departed colleague. But the message has been passed loud and clear to the Committee on Education, Science and Technology, whose Chair truly was in the House. Unfortunately, a Member of that Committee listened silently to Senators’ struggle---

I have not given you permission to stand, unless you want to say that you are sorry.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first, I want to apologize for not having paid attention as the question was put across. I am aware that the question asked by the gracious lady was tabled and we are still looking for an answer to it. As far as I know, in the last meeting, we were yet to receive the answer. But the Committee is doing its best to---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): She has waited for over a month.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is increasing becoming difficult to get answers from the Ministry. I think ---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What timeline will you give Sen. Kittony?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we will try. I even think that the Chairman has gone out to see whether he can get the answer. We have been trying to do that all the time.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): That has gone into the HANSARD and you will be reprimanded for that.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, can we be given another week or so? We will report back again if we have an answer.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. What is it, Sen. Sang?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, would I be in order to request that Sen. Billow Kerrow, the Member who distracted Prof. Lesan, who is a serious Member of this House who pays attention, owns up and apologizes?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I did not see that. There are more points of order. STATE OF INSECURITY IN LAMU AND OTHER PARTS OF THE COAST REGION

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I had sought a Statement last week from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations on the curfew in Lamu. That Statement was supposed to be delivered on The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Hon. Senators, I like concentrating, especially when Members are making requests. That is my nature.

Do you want me to repeat?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You may have to. I will request that Sen. “Justice” steps aside and seeks advice from the Clerks-at-the-Table.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am sorry for that disruption by the eminent Sen. Madzayo. I had sought a Statement two weeks ago from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations, which he committed to give last week. Upon my request, Sen. Haji stood and committed that, that Statement would be delivered on Tuesday this week. He even went further to reassure this House that in the event that, that Statement is not sent to him by the Cabinet Secretary, he shall summon him. When will that Statement be delivered? Did the Committee actually summon the Cabinet Secretary regarding that issue and other issues around insecurity in the Coast region, in particular, the curfew in Lamu?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Haji is not in the House for reasons that are known to the Speaker. The Deputy Chair is not in the House and I have no reasons for that. The Leader of Majority is not in the House. May be I will request for your indulgence. Do we have a Member of the Committee?

Yes, Sen. G.G. Kariuki!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you are looking for the Chair and the Vice Chair, so I am not qualified to be ---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): No. No. My apologies, I recognise your presence.

However, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to give the undertaking to the House that this matter will be delivered to the Chair and I will advise him, if possible, to have this matter resolved before Thursday next week.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well.

on a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I hope that by the statement that “before Thursday” he means Tuesday or Wednesday. That statement is so pertinent to what is going on right now at the coast. Tuesday would be more ideal. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is a security matter which I do not think is just a matter to be rushed. However, the important thing is to inform the Chair the importance of this question, so that it can be answered between Tuesday and Thursday. That is what I am saying before Thursday, meaning ---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): In the circumstances of a report being given between Tuesday and Thursday, it only means Wednesday. So, can we have the report on Wednesday?

Okay, Sir

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Kuti, what is it?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to give an answer to a statement.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I will give you the opportunity later. Yes, Sen. Khaniri!

It is the same, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Karue, are you on a point of order?

Yes. Just to seek your guidance, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, because I have a statement to make. Not an answer to a statement sought but ---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What does that mean? Do you want to request for a statement?

No. I want to make a statement under Section ---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Okay. We will come to that. I will give you the opportunity.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, can I issue the statement?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Just be fair. Sen. (Dr.) Kuti will start because I had already acknowledged his request earlier than yours. DESTRUCTION OF INSULIN MEANT FOR CHILDREN WITH DIABETES

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I stand to give an answer to a Statement sought by Sen. Wangari on the destruction of insulin which was meant for children with diabetes. I hope she is listening. The Senator had asked about the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Health and the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) to have the drugs removed from the cold room and subsequently destroyed. Under the East African Community Custom Management Act, 2004 Sub-section 34(1), cargo shall be entered within 21 days after the commencement of discharge. Article 34(4) states that where goods remain unattended during the period specified under subsection (1), then goods shall, if the proper officer so requires, be removed by, or at the expense of, the agent of aircraft or vessel in which such goods were imported to a customs warehouse. In light of this, goods arrived at the Jomo Kenyatta International Airport (JKIA) on flight SA 184 through Swissport Cargo Service Centre on 21st January, 2014. These The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I thank the Chairman for finally bringing something as a response to my question because I have really waited for it. The clarifications I want to seek are the following:- 1. Had the consignment been identified as medication? Were the drugs in a cold room in the first place? I do not see any indication in this response whether they had been stored in a cold room as is supposed to be. 2. Between the arrival on 21st January, 2014 and transfer on 7th April, 2014, where exactly were the drugs kept? Were they in a cold room? 3. What exactly does “proper officer” mean? Who exactly is charged to take up this role of entering this consignment? 4. Whose responsibility is it exactly to enter the goods so that we know where the lapse was? On the follow up question on the Kshs60 million VAT which came as a follow-up question on the Floor of the House from, I think, Sen. Wetangula, KRA already says and admits that it cannot give a satisfactory answer. My follow-up question is: when do we expect a substantial answer because these issues are still going on? Thank you.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Chair, respond to that.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, starting with the last one, the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) says that they do not have an import entry. That The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the issue raised by Sen. Wangari on cold storage is not academic. As a professional in that area, I know that vaccines or insulin, for example, if kept there for 21 days and goes to the consumer, it will be administered and will have no effect. Could the Chairman confirm that there is a procedure of ascertaining and ensuring that when such goods come in, they actually go to the cold storage? If you have such a procedure, why did it not occur to you, as a Government, that this being a donation, the consignee was not going to sell it? Therefore, where were you expecting this man to get the Kshs60 million and because of the state of diabetic children in this country, you would have exercised waiver. Why did you not do it as a Government, unless you are keen on having the children of the poor die in this country?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Let us listen to one or two interventions before the Chair responds.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I appreciate the answer but there is a sense when we ask for a statement on a matter of public interest, we expect our committees to aggressively interrogate the relevant Ministries from the perspective of the public whom we represent in this House. Any senior public official, be it in KRA, they are required by law to exercise due diligence and take judicial notice of a matter like this one. This is a vaccine which has a short shelve life and it is a donation. Some people went ahead and took the trouble to bring it. We know how many people are dying in this country because the statistics are published daily. People in KRA should have taken judicial notice of the fact that this is an urgent thing which is perishable and donated. It is not only this one. There are many incidences of donations including food. I know examples of food that had been donated but wasted in Mombasa and thrown away. What I want the Chairman to clarify is this; in view of the investigations that the Committee has done, is there any culpability by KRA or any other official in the Government who has failed to exercise due care and diligence in view of the kind of products we are dealing with and who should be held responsible? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in response to my distinguished senior, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I think he mixed two different issues. The Kshs60 million was a clarification sought after Sen. Wangari’s issue. It involves another Non- Governmental Organisation (NGO) called Shoes for Africa which was paid Kshs60 million but we do not have details because the import papers have not been provided by the Questioner. That mixes up the insulin issue.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Just to help him; how much was demanded by KRA for the insulin?

It is only Kshs56,770.

(Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale): Do you mean Kshs56,770 made insulin to be kept at the port---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sorry, let me make my comment as Chair. I also have a right to lament and project the face of this Senate on the disapproval of that behaviour; the callousness, the incompetence, non-patriotic status of some of the workers at the port for not considering the poor of this country. You can continue, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is very interesting that even our Temporary Speaker has not listened to my answer.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! This Temporary Speaker is one of the most intelligent Senators in this House.

I want to read this one more time:- In the light of the goods, they are arrived on 21st January, 2014 were transferred to the customs warehouse on 7th April, 2014 which was 55 days after discharge of the aircraft by Swiss Port Cargo Service Centre because the consignee – Life for a Child Kenya – had not come for them.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage: Yes, because he was required to raise Kshs56,770. I think we heard that loud and clear, and the Chairman said “only”. That is a subjective term. I am not trying to reprimand you because you are reporting on what the Cabinet Secretary gave you but we have to call a spade a spade. Continue, Mr. Chairman, you are doing well.

The issue of Kshs56,000 came up because of a clarification that was sought on why the KRA imposed a tax. However, this does not clearly state whether the consignee made an appearance because they came 55 days after the arrival of the goods. The standard procedure is that after 21 days, they are to be removed. This is about an issue of lateness by the consignee.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Chairman to say that the consignee should have come while the goods, perishable as they are, had overstayed before being warehoused? Immediately the goods arrived, they should have been kept safe.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Actually, Sen. Ndiema that was raised by Sen. Khalwale. Fortunately, our Chairperson of the Committee on Health is a medical professional, having been an Assistant Minister in that Ministry. He understands The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that is not viable and that is why upon verification the officer at KRA who handles the matter sought permit from the Pharmacy and Poisons Board. This was on 15th August, 2014. The pharmaceutical inspector inspected the consignment on 21st August and issued a letter condemning the drugs and recommended them for destruction.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Given the importance of this matter and the fact that the Chairman of the Committee is someone who is quite conversant with matters medical, in accordance with Standing Order No.35(2)(a), is it possible for the Chairman to tell us, broadly speaking what the rules are, relating to health related material that are lying at the port? This is not just about that. There is a lot of medicine and medical equipment which is lying in the port and will get lost at the port just because of matters of the KRA.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I will save the Chairperson on that. You are being unfair. You are asking for a policy which was not included in this question. You could come with another request with the same to the Committee on Health. This is a very important issue. However, right now, it is not fair.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. For the sake of clarity, in accordance with our Standing Orders, a Senator can stand and make a statement on a matter irrespective of whether somebody has gone out to ask a question or not. I was just asking whether in view of what we are asking, respectively, whether in view of what is happening here, it is possible for the Chairman to volunteer to make a statement on the matter even without a question being asked.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Mr. Chairperson, are you in a position to make that statement especially so having been a Cabinet Minister of Livestock Development and Fisheries?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker. In view of the importance of this---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): We are taking too much on this but I have allowed it because of its importance.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this one involves millions of shillings of an NGO that tried to get this kind of thing. It is happening daily. Could I request the Chairman, since he gave us one side of the story, what the Government officer told him. This may or may not be the case. Could I ask the Chairperson to go back and to get the facts from the importer? There is a possibility that at times, these things are condemned by the Pharmacy and Poisons Board because of other competing interests in this country. You are a medical person and you know what happens. Could I request the Chairman to go back and get the other side of the story so that we know exactly what happened? I rule that we conduct more research on this issue.

Thank you for having brought some light on this issue. Address the issues that have been raided by Members in this House and report back in another one week. We have run short of time in terms of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I hope that when you talk about short you mean about five minutes. I would like to make a statement under Standing Order 45(2)(a) regarding the current wholesale crisis in potatoe producing counties following the announcement by the Government on new standard weights of various produce. The economy of Nyandarua County, which I represent, revolves almost wholly around dairy products and potatoes. The subject matter is potatoes. The potatoe industry is very fragile, starting off with the product sale. Last week, the Government announced a new wholesale weight of 50 kilogrammes per bag to change from the previous weight of 110 kilogrammes. The effect of that was that the farmers in Nyandarua County and other potatoe producing counties did not know what to do. The previous standard of 110 kilogramme had a physical bag where when farmers put potatoes in it, it automatically became 110 kilogrammes. Now that the Government is talking about 50 which is the future of this country and the world, the farmers are now operating between a rock and a hard place. This announcement came with a very heavy fine of Kshs500,000 for anybody who will contravene this rule. The farmers are finding themselves in a very awkward situation where either they will not harvest their crop which will make it go bad or they may harvest and put the produce in the old 110 kilogrammes bag after which they will be arrested by the police. The “normal” way of doing things so that one is not arrested is to bribe the police. Farmers have not harvested since Monday and yet it is harvesting season. They do not know what to do. The purpose of my statement is to request the Government to review the situation with a view to suspending the implementation of this rule until the Government comes up with the standard physical bag where farmers can put potatoes. The Government can also organize for the supply of these bags which farmers can use. The end result of this is that I have sent observers to the Marigiti Market every morning since Monday. The situation is that---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I will not allow you to debate. Interestingly, you are the sponsor of Order No.11 on the same issue. Therefore, I will not allow you to discuss the issue under the disguise of a personal statement. I am trying to tell you to be brief.

This statement was supposed to come a few days ago but due to some issues, it was not brought earlier. The Bill is still important because it is a bit further down. The situation is that the Government has to do something to help alleviate The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Thank you, Sen. Karue. That statement cannot be interrogated.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if you give me four minutes, I will be done.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. You will be timed. PLIGHT OF FARMERS IN NYAMTHOWI, KOLWA CENTRAL LOCATION, KISUMU EAST CONSTITUENCY

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Standing Order No.45(2) of the Senate provides that a Senator may request for a Statement from a Committee Chairperson relating to matters under the mandate of the Committee. Pursuant to this provision, at the sitting of the Senate held on Thursday, 23rd October, 2014, Sen. Gwendo requested for a Ministerial Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Land and Natural Resources on the plight of farmers in Nyamthowi Kolwa Central Location in Kisumu East Constituency. In her Statement, the Senator sought the following information:- (a) The measures the Ministry is taking to deal with perennial flooding. (b) What the Government is doing to contain the hippo menace to the farms. (c) What is the progress on provision of title deeds to farmers in Nyamthowi Kolwa Central Location; and (d) Measures being taken to develop a proper road network so that famers’ produce can reach the prospective markets. The Committee requested for response to the Statement sought from the Ministry of Environment, Water and Natural Resources, the Ministry of Lands, Housing and Urban Development and the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructure. As to the measures the Ministry is taking to deal with perennial flooding; flooding in Kolwa Central Location occurs from swelling of rivers Kibos and Nyamasaria. In this regard, a study was recently concluded that outlined the measures required to deal with the flooding in the Central Kolwa Location. These measures are expected to commence in the next Financial Year, 2015/2016 and will include construction of dykes along Nyamasaria River, construction of water evacuation channel from Ombeyi to Lake Victoria, river draining work and distilling of Marienye River. In addition, focus on capacity building of Kisumu County Government on planning, coordinating and implementing community based flood management will form part of the activities arising from the study. This will lead to development of a framework for collaboration with Kisumu County Government and other stakeholders on integrated flood disaster management. On what the Government is doing to contain hippo menace to the farms, the Kenya Wildlife Service (KWS) has undertaken the following measures to contain the hippo menace in Kolwa Central Location:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, other than the issue of the hippos, I am very satisfied with the Statement issued by the Committee of Lands and Natural Resources. With regard to the hippo menace, I do not think the chain link fence is able to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Well, I would like to know the gauge of the chain link. If the gauge is strong enough, it should be able to take care of that. I rule that the answer was satisfactory and we take it as such. Sen. Murungi, you are supposed to give a Statement. BUSINESS OF THE OF THE SENATE FOR THE WEEK COMMENCING TUESDAY 25TH NOVEMBER, 2014

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wish to make the following Statement on behalf of the Senate Majority Leader who, as the House was explained to earlier, went to escort some dignitaries to the home of the late Sen. Otieno Kajwang. The Statement is as follows:- Hon. Senators, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.45, this is to present the Senate Business for the coming week. On Tuesday 25th, November 2014, the Rules and Business Committee (RBC) will meet at 12.00 noon to schedule business of the Senate for that week. Subject to further directions by the RBC, the Senate will continue with the business that will not be concluded in today’s Order Paper focusing on debate on Bills at the Second Reading and at the Committee of the Whole stage. The Senate will continue with the business not concluded during Tuesday’s Sitting and consider any other business scheduled by the RBC. The Senate will also deliberate on the following Motions:- 1. Motion by Sen. Sammy Leshore on Establishment of the National AIDS Control Council County Offices. 2. Motion by the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries on the Status of Food Security in Baringo County. 3. Reports of the Kenya Delegation to the ACP-EU Joint Parliamentary Assembly meetings held in 2013 and 2014. 4. Motion by the Chairperson of the Ad hoc Committee on Adoption of the Report on Legislation on Harambees. 5. Motion by Sen. Daniel Karaba on Accreditation of Institutions of Higher Learning. 6. Motion by Sen. Joy Gwendo on Construction of Wheelchair Accessible Footbridges on Major Roads. 7. Motion by Sen. (Dr.) Agnes Zani on Review of Categorization of Secondary Schools. 8. Motion by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. on Initiation of legislation to Provide for the Establishment of an Independent Commission to inquire into the boundaries of Counties and make appropriate recommendations On Thursday 27th November, 2014, the Senate will continue with the business not concluded on Tuesday and Wednesday, in particular, deliberating on Bills at Second The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I was away looking for an answer to a request for Statement from the Committee on Education---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Order, Sen. Karaba. You have been overtaken by events. Order Nos. 8 and 9 are deferred.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Mungai had 13 minutes to go. I do not see him around. Prof. Lesan.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to also join my colleagues who have made contributions to this Motion. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Bill and congratulate Prof. Lonyangapuo. The challenge of insecurity in this country is getting out of hand. This country has witnessed a tremendous loss of lives of Kenyans in Lamu, Tana River, Wajir, Baringo, Samburu and Turkana. Insecurity in this country has to be addressed. We know that there are several challenges facing the security forces in this country. One of the issues is that this country has not sufficiently invested in the security sector, especially in terms of facilitation. We need to ensure that our police apparatus are able to have the necessary The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I would like to support the amendment by Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo. You will understand what this Bill means, particularly if you come from pastoralist areas, the Arid and Semi Arid Lands (ASAL) which have been marginalised for a long time. I believe that this is a timely Bill. We know that there is a shortage of uniformed police formerly known as the Administration Police (AP) and the regular police. It is important, at this stage, for me to disclose that my reading of the amendment shows that this Bill does not have sufficient capacity to be called a Bill that concerns counties. The reason I have said that is because its reference, as the Sen. said in his memorandum regarding its concern to counties stretches the interpretation of what concerns counties. However, I believe that this Bill should go deeper to provide the role of county governments; the place of county governments and their place as far as matters of police reservists are concerned. I am saying this because these counties, as the Senator has expressed in the memorandum, which are marginalised, are suffering underdevelopment because of insecurity. Therefore, once the Bill gets to the Third Stage, I will be proposing that it be amended to provide an opportunity for county governments that will have extra resources to support police services to put those resources on the police reservists. We have seen some counties buying vehicles for the police. We have seen some counties investing in technological equipment for the police. Under the law, it should be permissible for counties to invest in security and as far KPRs is concerned as it has been proposed by the Senator. To make this Bill even stronger, the place and role of the county governments and the contextualisation of the management of the reservists at a local level needs to be provided. As such, I believe that the National Police Service (NPS) using the existing county police committees should form a committee that will have a representation of county governments which together with the NPS will manage the national reservists. Apart from protection of properties, peace, law, order and apprehension of offenders, reservists should be given an opportunity to carry out other functions that are related to the counties, particularly social functions. Sensitisation of locals on matters of security should also be allowed. There should be sensitisation on matters regarding peace, not just preservation, but also sensitisation and training of other responsible citizens on matters of security, peace, law and order. I also believe that if we want to make this country a place we are all proud of, we need to use the KPRs to win back some of our youth who have previously been involved in crime. We have been told stories about people who have been recruited to go and fight in a country like Somalia. We have had situations where some youth have been recruited to be cattle rustlers. Others have been recruited to other unlawful activities. One way of winning them back to become good and responsible citizens, considering that they already have basic training on matters of firearms and insecurity, we can rehabilitate them by hiring them to be part of the police reservists. As such we can The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Hon. Senators, I had to allow Sen. Murkomen to speak before some of you for reasons you will soon understand. I will now allow Sen. G.G. Kariuki to speak.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am happy that you have allowed me to make a statement on this matter which I find to be very important for this country, especially at this time. Every morning when you read the newspapers, there is a story of some people having been killed either by thugs or by the police. This is a very involving matter, whereas, we stand here and make casual statements about our security in this country because it appears that that is the only thing we must do and forget. I am not so sure that those who are in charge of security bother to look at HANSARD reports to read the contributions of hon. Members. If they do, in fact, there is nothing that we are saying here that they do not know. These people are trained to protect the property and lives of the people of this country. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not think that they would expect any Member here to competently advise them because they are in the game and understand it better than us. Sometimes they think that some incidents of insecurity are perpetuated by the politicians themselves. Whenever you speak to a security officer, you will never get an answer from him. Where politics is involved, he is so scared to mention Sen. Kiraitu Murungi or Sen. G.G. Kariuki, because he will suffer the consequences. Therefore, we expect too much from them. We have politicised the security of this country and yet, we want the security operators to be as open as we may wish. We are dealing with human beings; people who know us very well. They have worked for us and assisted us in one way or another. Therefore, we are in the same family, but in disarray.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am not so sure that a police officer or any other person would want to have the kind of criminality that is taking place today. All of us would want to be protected. Police officers are in danger of being eliminated by criminals. The criminals are facing the same problem. In fact, it is by the grace of God that we are all here and surviving. We can claim that we are protected, but it may take a minute for us to realize that we are not, especially now that we are facing international criminals, including Al Qaeda and others. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity to support this important amendment Bill. The purpose of this amendment is to recognize the KPRs as part of the security forces of this country. That is why we are supporting that they be better trained, facilitated and equipped for performance of the critical role they are playing to support the police in this country. It has been known from very early days, from the early philosophers, that the only purpose of the Government is to protect the lives and property of the citizens. That critical role will not be performed by the whole government. The Government instrument for protecting the lives and property of the people is the police. Indeed, if you read the police Act, Section 14, the purpose of the police service is to protect the lives and property of Kenyans and maintaining law and order. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is quite clear that there is a security crisis in this country. Our police are inadequate in numbers because we fall far below the United Nations recommended ratio. We cannot hope to win the war on insecurity with police who are underpaid, demoralized and inexperienced. This challenge of a weak, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, a lot has been said about this Bill. I have one or two points to make. One, this is a developing country and like all developing countries we have a lot of inadequacies. At the moment, one of them is insecurity which appears to be completely out of hand. The call for recruitment of more KPRs is timely. Of course, this varies from place to place. There are some places where it is more serious than others. However, overall, calling for the training and recruiting of more KPRs will effectively fill the gap of the police where the ratio of the police to the residents is very low. Once they go through training, there will be proper accountability of their operations. That is not enough; it is also important for them to be facilitated. We do not want a team of reservists who are not facilitated to do their work. The other point is that recently we had a recruitment of 10,000 police officers, but I believe now it is in abeyance because some people went to court. When you look at the recruitment process itself, it is such that you end up with a group of people without real commitment. In many places, the highest bidder is recruited occasioned by the process being so fraudulent. Eventually, the people recruited are the ones who could afford to pay what was required to be paid to whoever it was to be paid. These people are not committed to their duties because they were just looking for a job. They are not committed to be police officers. The final and most important point is that whether they are reservists, whether we call them regular police or APs, they must be facilitated. Where I come from and this might be the case with all counties, when young men and women graduate from the police college, they expect to get facilities like housing. However, when they are posted, they are confronted by the rude shock. There are no staff quarters for them. They have no where to stay. Sometimes you find three or four officers being taken to a police post. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. Murkomen): Sen. Murungi, I can see your intervention. Do you have something to say?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was seeking your guidance whether we could move to the next Order which is the Potato Produce and Marketing Bill (Senate Bill No.22 of 2014) if there are no other contributors on this Bill?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I had contributed to this Bill, but for only three minutes because at that time there were very many Members who wanted to contribute and so we were limited to three minutes.

So, what are you trying to say?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am saying that I can continue with my contribution.

What Standing Order allows a Member to speak twice to a Bill?

Natural justice!

Standing Order No.1.

Sen. Murkomen): Sen. Karaba, unless you show me the relevant Standing Order, I am totally unable to give you the opportunity to make that contribution. Is Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki ready to move his Bill?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am very ready to move my Bill.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Before we can move to the next Order, I think the Standing Orders require that we conclude on this particular one. I think it appropriate for me to request the Chair whether we could defer the putting of the Question on the Bill to another day given the situation in the House, under Standing Order No.54 (3).

Which Standing Order were you talking about Sen. Murungi?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is Standing Order No.54(2), (3) which talks about the manner of debating Motions. If you allow me to read it:- “At the conclusion of the debate, the Speaker shall put the question. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Sen. Murungi. Unfortunately, the debate is not concluded. I can see a request from the Senate Majority Leader.

(Sen. (Prof) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir. I would like from the outset to thank the Senator for West Pokot County, Sen. (Prof) John Lonyangapuo for bringing this Bill. This Bill is timely in as far as it tries to handle or strengthen the security situation in our country which is a matter of big concern. It is only fair to say that Kenyans are concerned. Kenyans in urban centres, in agricultural areas, pastoral areas and in all walks of life are concerned that the security situation is not as good as it is supposed to be. As I speak, I have just seen a news alert that some four people have been killed in Marsabit by bandits. As you are aware, what is happening in Mombasa for the past few days is not good. As we look at this problem of security and how our security can be strengthened, let us look at it holistically. While it is true that most of the challenges around security are in pastoral areas and areas that have been marginalized, this Bill should be in such a way that it also looks at the possible roles of reservists even in other parts of the country, including agricultural areas and also in the urban centres. It is true that pastoral theft, insecurity and death in marginalized areas have been a big problem. In my own county of Tharaka-Nithi, especially Tharaka Constituency, there have been cases of bandit attacks and cattle thefts, which normally take place because the bandits seem to use the Meru National park as a conduit, a hiding place and a transit facility to assist them to get away, especially when they come late in the evening. Therefore, tracking them becomes difficult. That is why I would start by supporting what the speaker before me, Sen. Murungi, said- at least he spoke when I was here -I do not know if there has been another speaker in between, but I want to support what he said that insecurity is not necessarily a problem of the pastoral area, it is affecting all counties. It affects even those counties where pastoralism is not overly the way of life. Even where there is a mixture of pastoralists and agriculturalist, there is this problem. Therefore, there is need to include the training of KWS officers so that they can have techniques to combat cattle rustling and such like instances. It is important to highlight that the Jubilee Government has tried to address this problem. I know the issue of insecurity was part of the Jubilee Manifesto. We are not yet there, but it is also good to acknowledge the positive steps that have been taken in the last one and half years on this issue of insecurity. As you are aware, we are on the second year, where the Government has recruited 10,000 thousand extra police officers. The first bunch was recruited last year. Unfortunately, this year the delay in recruitment has been caused by court battles. There were issues that were raised, but I think that we need a country where certain national activities can go on and those who are, perhaps, aggrieved can have other ways of getting compensated or expressing grievances. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Are you willing to be informed, Senate Majority Leader?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if the information is coming from Sen. Murungi, I have no objection because I know he is a very resourceful informant.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is true the late Patrick Shaw was a very huge man, but he was very fast. When we were students at the University of Nairobi, we also dreaded him. It was not only criminals who dreaded him. Whenever we rioted along Uhuru Highway and saw Patrick Shaw just driving his car, we would all run back to the University. The most important point to note is that the late Patrick Shaw was not a policeman in uniform. He was a police reservist. That is why we are saying even the City itself will require KPRs like him, who can drive criminals out of this town. Thank you.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Sen. Murungi for that information. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

would you want to be informed?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Sen. Ndiema is also a very useful informant. I accept to be informed.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to inform the Senator that even in the unfortunate situation of the West Gate Mall, there were quite some impressive citizens who were civilians; KPRs. They were armed and they risked their lives to save others. One of them is the son of Sen. Yusuf Haji. He did quite a commendable job.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank Sen. Ndiema for that reminder. Some of the most heroic performances in security operations, not just in Kenya, but anywhere in the world, are done by non-core officers. For a person to volunteer to protect other people, there is something over and above a job and the pay that they receive. I will say a couple of things because I know time is not on my side. One, that going forward, we want the Inspector-General of police to stop sending young, inexperienced boys and girls to hardship areas. That is why our boys and girls are being slaughtered. The most experienced and well trained persons are the ones who should command and operate in places where bandits have taken control for very many years. The young Turks can stay around town for about five years because the challenge is less. After that we post them to far flung areas. The second point is that we must review the packages for officers who work in these areas, especially pastoralist areas. The Bill proposes that the NPS will determine what pay and allowances. This should not be a uniform allowance for KPR people. I hope they will not sit and say that every KPR person will be paid Kshs10,000 allowance. If you are a KPR in Nyeri or Kiambu, you cannot be equated to a KPR in those places. So, I want to see the KPR in every part of the country with differentiated compensation so that we attract the right people in those places. Other than that, I want to urge that for the training part of it, the KPR as well as the Kenya Police be given comprehensive training which is integrated, but includes auxiliary roles like disaster management. You should not post somebody as a reservist or a police officer just to look out for cattle thieves. You should send somebody who can deal with civilian evacuation so that when there are floods or famine, they can do humanitarian work. This is the kind of training we want to see. The future of this country with regard to security and stability lies in modernising our police, integrating civilian initiative with the regular initiatives of policing; it lies in a comprehensive curriculum and in getting our best brains and attracting them in the police force and sending them with a good package in the most difficult and challenging areas. Finally, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to take this opportunity as I end my remarks to thank our men and women in uniform who have dedicated their lives The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, hon. Senators! There was an earlier request by Sen. Murungi. However, there was a decision made by the Speaker that we have designated time and day for voting for all the Bills. Therefore, the Question for this Bill will be put next week on Wednesday as it had been ruled by the Speaker before.

Order, hon. Senators! It is now time to adjourn the Senate. Therefore, the Senate stands adjourned until Tuesday, 25th November, 2014 at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.