Hon. Members, I wish to inform you that the Intergovernmental Relations Technical Committee, which is established by the Intergovernmental Relations Act and is responsible for the coordination of activities and functions of the Summit and the Council of Governors (CoG) among other functions, has organised and invited the Senate to a consultative meeting to deliberate on issues geared to improve service delivery in the devolved units. Hon. Senators, the objects of the meeting are:- (a) to update the participants on the experiences and achievements of the Intergovernmental Relations Technical Committee; (b) to analyse, discuss and understand the legal provisions relating to the mandate of the Intergovernmental Relations Technical Committee and the institutional challenges thereof; (c) to review and identify challenges emerging from taking over of the residual functions from the defunct Transition Authority (TA); (d) to discuss and appreciate the constituents and implications of inadequate budgetary resources for the Intergovernmental Relations Technical Committee; and, (e) to review and propose amendments to the Intergovernmental Relations Act, 2012. Hon. Senators, the meeting is scheduled to take place from 17th to 20th November, 2016, in Mombasa County. Senators should depart for Mombasa on the evening of Thursday, 17th November, 2016. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Based on past experiences with some of these institutions, it is very clear that their intention is to lobby us to assist them to get more funding. Be that as it may, I want to request that you write to them and tell them that they should come and explain to us the status of the important matter of handing over and taking over of the assets and liabilities from the defunct local authorities to the county governments. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is now four years since we embraced devolution and the exercise has not been addressed. Land and other forms of assets continue to be abused. Finally, they should also be reminded to come and account for the budget they were given as the TA. That is, Kshs61,595,000 per county which they used during the time of transition to buy things but they have never accounted for. I thank you.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, your concerns are noted and will definitely be communicated. I am sure they are part and parcel of the discussions at the meeting. In addition to us writing to them, I want to believe that you are also committing your participation. Hon. Senators, I have another communication to make VISITING DELEGATION OF STAFF FROM KILIFI AND WEST POKOT COUNTY ASSEMBLIES

Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery this afternoon, of the visiting staffs from Kilifi and West Pokot county assemblies who are on attachment in the Senate. I request each member of the delegation to stand when called out, so that he or she may be acknowledged in the usual Senate tradition. They are:- (1) Mr. George M. Kumbatha. (2) Ms. Martha N. Ngugi. (3) Ms. Sally K. Kadzo. (4) Mr. Sammy M. Mwadziwe. (5) Ms. Angela Loporna. (6) Mr. Daniel Micha. On behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, I welcome you to the Senate and wish you well for the remainder of your stay. I thank you.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to join you in welcoming the staffs from Kilifi and West Pokot County. I commend the people of Kilifi for the beautiful assembly that was opened by you last week. I witnessed that devolution is really at work and the people of Kilifi will benefit from their staff coming to learn from the Senate. I want to attest that their assembly is remarkable because it is very well furnished. I would like to commend the Senator for Kilifi, Stewart Madzayo, for inviting me to take part in their ceremony last week. They are welcome and should take our greetings when they go back to Kilifi.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also join you in welcoming and congratulating the delegations from the two county assemblies for choosing to come to the Senate to see how we do work for them. I would like to remind them that Senate does oversight and protects the interests of county governments and counties. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are witnessing many county assemblies and county governments coming to see how the Senate and the National Assembly work. However, they have begun too late towards the end of the life of this Parliament. They should have begun early in 2013 or 2014. However, what we witnessed that time was very interesting. Many delegations were going to Israel while some were going to Singapore and South Africa. I do not know what they were going to benchmark. It is good to learn from your neighbours. I particularly encourage the staff from my county assembly to visit their neighbouring counties. I do not know whether they have been to Turkana, Elgeyo-Marakwet, Trans Nzoia and so on to see how their neighbours are performing. Otherwise, I welcome them and wish them well in Nairobi.

Finally, Justice Retired, Sen. Madzayo.

Bw. Spika, naunga mkono ndugu zangu. Kwanza, nakushukuru sana kwa uamuzi uliofanya kuruhusu wafanyakazi wa kutoka Kaunti ya Kilifi kuja ili kujifundisha na kujionea jinsi Seneti inavyoendesha shughuli zake. Watapa mafunzo ya kutosha na wanaporudi nyumbani, nina hakika watafurahia kutokana na watakayojifundisha hapa. Pili, Bw. Spika, ninakushuru kwa kukubali mwito. Waswahili husema kwamba mtu hakatai mwito, hukataa analoitiwa. Wewe ulikuja kwa kukubali mwito na ulijionea wazi kwamba Serikali ya Kaunti ya Kilifi inawania kufanya kazi ya ugatuzi kisawasawa ili kuhakikisha kaunti zingine zinaiga mfano wake. Bw. Spika, asante sana. VISITING DELEGATION OF PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM MUTHURWA ISLAMIC ACADEMY, NAIROBI COUNTY

Hon. Senators, I wish to recognise the presence of visiting pupils and teachers from Muthurwa Islamic Academy, Nairobi County. They are seated at the Public Gallery. In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to our Parliament, I extend a warm welcome to them. On behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, I wish them a fruitful visit. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to make a statement on an issue of general topical concern regarding the unlawful issuance of the title deeds by Embu County---

Order, Senator! Check your Order Paper, we are on Petitions.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my point of order is under Petitions. It was under a petition which I filed the last two years and so far nothing has happened following the petition, hearing, presentation and adoption of the report from the Committee that was named last time. It has taken long for Kirinyaga people to know the outcome. The outcome was decreed and given by the Senate, but so far, nothing has happened. So, this is a form of a petition which has been filed here and tabled on behalf of Kirinyaga County MihirigaKenda .

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Will I be in order to request that you give an order to the committees dealing with various petitions to finalize them and table their reports before the end of the month?

Order, Senator! I will give you the chance to do so under statements because the petition was already disposed of.

Much obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Elachi, what was your intervention?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am requesting you to ask the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget to finalise all the petitions pending before it and table the report before the end of the month?

Indeed, let us hear from the Vice-Chairperson of the Finance, Committee, Sen. Mositet.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is true that we have quite a number of petitions and we are working on them. One of the problems we are facing is that some governors do not honour our summons. For example, Kakamega County, Gov. Oparanya. We have one petition from Kisumu County Government which we had referred to both the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget and Committee on Devolved Government. Our Committee was to raise the quorum so that could discuss and finalise it. However, when it comes to the Committee on the Devolved Government, it has never managed to raise a quorum. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order, Senator! We do not have a copy. So you may wish to make it available. What you have is not enough.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have just received two of them.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, did you hear the Vice Chairperson saythey are unable to summon Gov. Oparanya? His residence is well known and they can get him by all means.

Order, Sen. (Prof) Lonyangapuo! You are misrepresenting the Vice-Chairperson. He did not say that he does not know the home address of Gov. Oparanya. He was giving an example of one of those who have frustrated their work by not appearing. So, you could actually imply that maybe the Governor does not know the address of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget. Sen. Mositet, what is important is the concern by Sen. Elachi. I have already communicated to all the committees that they need to conclude all the petitions given that already Standing Orders spell the number of days that petitions must be cleared. The Session is coming to an end. So, we must have all the petitions by all committees reported by end of the month, latest by the last day of the business.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I feel very embarrassed as Senator for Kisumu because this petition has been before the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget for close to three years. When you ordered that the Committee on Devolved Government should join us, that is when our misery started. The Committee on Devolved Government has not been meeting. They only came to our meeting once or twice. I really do not think that enjoining the Committee on Devolved Government to this petition added any value nor should they enjoy the luxury of trying to read that petition because they had no input in it. It is punishing the residents Kisumu County to detain this petition without being passed by this Senate for the three years. My instinct and my humble advice would be let the Committee which has dealt with this petition table it in the Senate and let the Committee on Devolved Government not delay us any further.

Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o, I really do not know where that intervention is coming from. You are just repeating what the Vice- Chairperson requested the Chair. I am yet to respond to that particular matter, but I appreciate your frustrations.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Whereas I appreciate the frustrations that are being expressed by the Members, particularly regarding petitions, would I be in order to ask that we relook at the whole matter of petitions as a House with the objective of raising the threshold for what constitutes a petition? Whereas it is a constitutional right of individuals to petition the House, in other jurisdictions, if you look at, for example, the United States of America, there is a minimum number of people who must sign a document called a petition in order for it to take it effect. The Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget has got petitions galore. We need to have a special committee that will deal with nothing else except petitions in order The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The matter that has been raised by distinguished Sen. Beatrice Elachi is extremely important. Two governors, Gov. Akaranga from Vihiga County and Gov. Oparanya from Kakamega County, have set the notorious record of being the only governors who have defied this Senate. Luckily for us, the Director of Public Prosecution (DPP) was able to address us, as the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC). He told us that the Senate has the power to order for arrest. Mr. Speaker, Sir, without delaying the process further, could you order from the Chair that the two governors be arrested forthwith, and on Monday, they be frog-matched to the Senate Committees? We want to deal with them because they have stolen money. They are thieves---

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. It is quite tempting for the Chair to give those directions, but we can do better. We will deal with that matter in a different way for the same results.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Without losing the point that was raised by Sen. Kagwe, we need to relook some of the petitions afresh. Most of what was raised in the petitions was captured by the Auditor-General’s report. The CPAIC, headed by Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'- Nyong'o, has already dispensed with some of the reports. We may need to relook at petitions afresh. This is because there is a repetition and overload of work on the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget.

Members, let me dispose the issue of how to handle petitions. The suggestions by Sen. Kagwe and Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo are matters that can be considered, because we have already instituted the Rules and Procedures Committee to relook into the Standing Orders. That is one avenue. I do not think that all is lost because it is upon the Committee to determine on how to dispose the matter. If you find that a petition has no merit, why should you keep it or look for witnesses? Make your consideration and bring the report. The Committee can also look at what the other committees are doing through the Liaison Committee, so that you may know what is in the Auditor-General’s report and compare it with what you have. There are many ways to deal with that particular matter. There is no reason a petition should delay at all. Regarding the matter of Kisumu that was raised by Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o, the Vice Chairperson raised it with me and we will handle it administratively. The Standing Orders are clear that petitions should go to the relevant Standing Committee. I gave the Committee on Devolved Government an opportunity because some of the issues are within its mandate. The fact that the Committee on Devolved Government did not participate does not make your report invalid. I do not understand why it took three years. You should not blame the Committee on Devolved Government; the blame The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir

Next Order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a Statement on an issue of general topical concern regarding the unlawful issuance of title deeds by the Embu County Government in the area of the Mwea Trust Lands. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Chairman of the Committee on Lands and Natural Resources, what is your take on that statement in terms of the process and the prayers being sought, and not the particulars?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the prayers being sought were in the Statement sought by Sen. Njoroge regarding the ongoing Northern Water Collector Tower, Phase One.

Order, Chair. We are yet to reach there. Sen. Karaba is asking the Committee to get hold of the Chairperson of the National Land Commission.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. We shall look into the Statement and bring an answer next week on Thursday. One week is enough.

Order, Members. I direct that the Committee looks at this Statement and gives the House an appropriate response. Sen. Sang, do you want to comment on Sen. Karaba’s Statement?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, with regard to the Statement made by Sen. Karaba, that particular Petition initially came to my Committee, the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. We are still working on the Bill on boundary review commission. However, there are some details that would make sense in the Statement captured by Sen. Karaba; that the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights Committee and Sen. Kivuti’s Committee on Lands and Natural Resources can make a fact-finding mission to the place. That element would be important. You could direct that the two Committees do a joint fact-finding mission and report to this House, because the issues raised are quite weighty. If that is granted, two weeks would be okay for the two committees to travel to the site and make some headway with regard to this issue.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, from what Sen. Karaba has raised, I am worried whether the Committee, chaired by Sen. Kivuti, is the right one to look into that matter. I think there is a conflict of interest in this matter because it concerns the people of Embu and Kirinyaga. Maybe his deputy could do better in this matter than the Chair.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I concur with my brother, Sen. Karaba, regarding the tension in Embu. As we are discussing this issue, the title deeds are being issued. I have a list that I have passed to the Chairman to prove that nothing is happening to resolve the matter. It has been left with the administrators to mess up the issue, and tension is high. Urgent measures need to be taken to stop what is happening and bring Kenyans together. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I wish to shed some little light on this matter.

Order, Chair! I was clear. Deal with the procedures and not the particulars. You can bring the particulars next week. .

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the little light I want to shed is not about the land, but two counties. Kirinyaga County wants to take a part of Embu County. It is a matter which I do not think the two Committees will come up with an answer to it. This is because if, at the end of the day, Kirinyaga County is given part of Embu County or even the whole of Embu County, the people who live there will still own land. Having said that, I know that there is a matter that was brought by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. on boundaries problems between Makueni and Machakos counties and it escalated to the entire country. We need to relook into this matter from a different perspective and not whether somebody in Bungoma County got a title and Embu County wants part of Bungoma County. I rest my case.

Order, Sen. Kivuti! You are actually making a case and not resting it.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just want to know whether the Senator for Embu is ceding some land of Embu County to Kirinyaga County.

Order, Senators! I do not think Sen. Kivuti should respond to Sen. Moi because, obviously, he is not being helpful to the discourse. Let me dispose of this matter as follows: One, the issues of court orders can be dealt better by the courts and not this House. So, Sen. Karaba, you must find a way of going back to the court and praying that the orders were not complied with. I am sure they will give you the right remedies. On the general issues of the National Land Commission (NLA), the Chairperson of the Committee on Lands and Natural Resources has already committed himself. In terms of the conflict of interest, we have ways in which to handle that matter. The Committee has a Vice Chairperson and other membership. The Committee can look at it and determine whether there may be need for the Vice Chairperson or a Member to lead this issue, given that the Chairperson might be an interested party. I know the Chairperson is an able man, knows these things and will do what is right for justice to be done. Mr. Chairman, we are interested in the fact that a matter has been raised in the House. So, we must respond as a responsible institution. It is in that response that all those issues will come out from a more neutral arbiter. There may be an altercation between two Senators representing the two different counties. I think that is where the role of the Committee becomes important. I direct that three Committees deal with this matter – Committee on Lands and Natural Resources, Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs and the Committee on Implementation because the result of the petition had already been noted. So, it is a matter that fits very well in the Committee on Implementation. I now go even further and direct that the Committee should provide the leadership in this matter and bring us a report in two weeks’ time. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to issue a statement sought by Sen. Njoroge regarding the ongoing Construction of the Northern Corridor Water Collector Tunnel Phase 1 Project. The project is intended to provide reliable water supply to Nairobi City County and its environs. Sen. Njoroge sought to know:- (1) When the project was launched? (2) Findings that lead to the initial rejection of the project by leaders of Murang’a County. (3) What informed the Government to proceed with the project despite the opposition by various sectors? (4) Whether an environmental impact assessment was undertaken before commencement of the project and contents of the report made public? (5) Whether the project will adversely affect the environment as feared by those opposing it? Mr. Speaker, Sir, the masterplan and visibility study for the development of new water resources for Nairobi City County was launched for implementation on 19th September, 2012. The masterplan included implementation of the Northern Corridor Water Collector Tunnel Phase 1 Project between the 2012 and 2017. The construction of the Northern Corridor Water Collector Tunnel commenced on 24th February, 2015 upon issuance of the engineer’s order to commence works. The works are expected to be completed by 24th June, 2018. As a result of the public consultation process for the project, Murang’a County in April 2015, prepared and published the Murang’a County Government Report of the Technical Committee on the Northern Corridor Water Collector Tunnel. Upon its publication, the project proponents; Athi Water Services Board (AWSB) noted that there were various misconceptions of project facts in the report regarding the effects of the project on river flows, project impacts on the ground water aquifers, community involvement and benefits, effects of tunneling and landslide prone areas. Upon this realization, AWSB initiated engagements with Murang’a County Government. As a result, a joint memorandum between AWSB and Murang’a County addressing the issues contained in the Murang’a County report was prepared. The memorandum was debated and endorsed by Murang’a County Assembly on 14th April, 2016. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Northern Corridor Water Collector Tunnel Project has been designed by professional experts and technical issues addressed, necessary authorisation by various licensing bodies, including the environmental licenses have been accomplished. The project has been assessed to have negligible environmental and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order Chair. You may summarize if the Members have the copies.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have only one page remaining. I have already read five pages. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, to comment on that, I would say that it is brilliant idea to have such a project. However, I urge the Government to extend its generosity and establish or identify a dam which will still make for the deficit if the Murang’a project does not receive excess water or overflow, so that Nairobi residents will have a very promising way of making for the deficit because at the end of the day, the residents of Nairobi want enough water. I commend the Government for coming up with this wonderful project. However, there might be no continuity of excess water flowing because sometimes water is unpredictable. So, I encourage the Government to go an extra mile and make sure that we have a mega dam which will supply water to the Nairobians. The Government should even think of doing a borehole so that we have a very reliable source of water that will be permanent to solve the water problem in Nairobi. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to seek a small clarification. We asked for information but instead of him giving us the information, he told us that the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the request as elegantly put by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale notwithstanding, could the Chair confirm to this House that the people of Murang’a are resenting the construction of that project? Could he also confirm or deny to this House that that project was actually inaugurated by the former Prime Minister of the Republic of Kenya, Hon. Raila Amolo Odinga?

Bw. Spika, namshukuru Mwenyekiti wa Kamati yangu kwa kusema maneno ambayo si ya kweli. Hata kama wewe ni kichaa, utajua wazi kwamba lugha iliyotumika haifanani kabisa. Itakuwaje mito mitatu inayoleta maji kwa bwawa moja ibadilishwe mikondo kisha utarajie kwamba kiwango cha maji kitakuwa sawa? Huo in uongo mtupu. Pili, Mwenyekiti wangu hakutueleza gharama ya handaki hilo. Tulisikia kuwa itagharimu Ksh2 billion na sasa wengine wanasema itagharimu Ksh4 billion. Hajatupa ukweli wa gharama hiyo na kutuambia kwa nini imepanda.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my senior, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, has been very specific on the documents that will guide this House in executing this matter. I just want to request for provision of one more document; hat is the contract signed with the implementers of the project. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chairman has talked of the commencement date of the project but there could be a difference between the commencement date and the date which the contract was signed. It must come out clearly that on the date on which the contract was signed. Public participation should have happened, environmental impact assessment done and NEMA licenses proffered. Mr. Speaker, Sir, a more specific question is that the project will increase the flow of water into Nairobi by the number of volumes that the Chairman has stated. Could the Chairman tell this House the plan of the project? Is it to drain water out of Nairobi?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the engineering point of view, the tunnel collector is supposed to just harvest the excess water caused by the rains and Senators should understand that point. That is why the Chair is saying that the effect on the river is 2 per cent. However, the concerns of the Senators should be considered. I will give an example of my own county which--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order, Senator, it is Statement hour. You should be seeking clarifications on that statement but not proffering examples from your own county.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there was a case in 1980s where water was pumped from Kilimanjaro-Loitokitok to Machakos. It was a big project that time and it was called Kilimanjaro-Machakos Water Project. A river called Nol Turesh was tapped and there were NEMA reports which were done at that time. As we speak today, that project completely changed the ecology of Oloitokitok. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to ride on the same and request the Chairman to provide to this Senate documentation to show how much water was flowing in River Nol Turesh before water was tapped. He should also tell us what happened to the people downstream and how many people downstream were affected and their lives changed completely since Kilimanjaro-Machakos Water Project was implemented. Mr. Speaker, Sir---

Order. You should seek clarification. You have asked too many questions. I will give you one last minute.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is another clarification I would like to seek. Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki and many other engineers are here. We need a special audit on the costing of dams in this country. All of a sudden, people started talking about millions and billions for dams. It is just a matter of excavations, compaction, and grouting where you will rarely experience a hard structure down there with cracks. That is the only time you can talk of mega billions being used on dams. So, I urge this Senate to come up with either a committee or ask for a special audit to be done on huge sums of money being used on dams. Maybe some engineers could be colluding in costing the dams. I rest my case.

The Chair.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, starting with Sen. Njoroge’s request, I have no quarrel with that because I know mega dams is a programme which is enshrined in the Vision 2030. I can even state that my Embu County will benefit from such dams. These projects are intended to limit the amount of water that goes to the Indian Ocean as waste. The Government intends to harness and collect all the rain water from all the mountains and valleys to the main dams. Mr. Speaker, Sir, recently, we passed the Water Bill which has a whole section on how to deal with water collection into dams and how it will be managed to benefit Kenyans. Having said that, I think Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale really needed not a statement but attachment of the documentation such as documents of public participation and the report which was interrogated and even debated by the County Assembly of Murang’a. Maybe he might also need the HANSARD from the County Assembly of Murang’a. I do not see anything wrong with providing such documentation but I do not think it will add value to the contents of what is being reported. If so directed, the paperwork can also be availed. However, I think we need to look at the real cause and how we should address the real issue. If it is addressed equitably, there is no need of asking for bunches of papers. Having said that, the cost---

Nidhamu! The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

What is it, Sen. Boy Juma Boy?

Bw. Spika, Mwenyekiti anasema kuwa Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale anataka karatasi za kawaida wakati Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale ameeleza sababu maalumu. Je, ni sawa kwa Mwenyekiti kusema kwamba ni karatasi ambazo hazina maana?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The intent of asking for these documents is because they have dates and we are able to examine and see whether things were done in the proper sequence. Therefore, is the Chair in order to attempt to belittle the request by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?

Chairperson.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the two Senators who just rose on a point of order failed to realise that I said the documentation is available. It can be given, but it may not add value. I did not say it is useless.

Order, Senators! Therefore, you are directed to table the documents.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I took note that the documents being sought are the Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA), the report from the County Government of Murang’a and the public participation. These are the documents that have been sought by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. I will get them from the same source that I got all the compiled information.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of order. Since the report starts from 2012, let us get the documentation from that year to-date.

Proceed, Mr. Chairperson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On the question of cost, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale wanted to be given a comparative study on how the combined cost of Kshs44.5 billion was arrived at. My concern here is when we are doing a project, we do not start by answering questions that are anticipated. Any engineer would sign a project depending on the parameters of that particular project and after the design, the project is tendered. After the tender, we expect there to have been competitive tendering process done and thereafter the implementation. Since we know that implementation started in 2012, the documentation that would be tabled including the EIA, the report from the County Government of Murang’a and the public participation would bring out most of the answers to the questions which are being sought. Sen. (Dr.) Machage wanted to know---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of order. As you will notice, the Chairman continues today to downplay the significance of my question. Whereas you are right to talk about the design, tendering and so on, the gist of my question was Ksh44.5 billion could very well be better used if we harvested the rain water. You know the amount of rain water that runs from rooftops in Nairobi is too much. We would like The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I answer that we need to do another study on comparative study on the amount of rainwater that falls in Nairobi, I think that goes beyond the answer to the Murang’a tunnel. I will request the Senator to bring this as a substantive Motion so that we urge the Government to carry out the study and the findings would be brought to the House. Furthermore, it should be noted that when we talk about inter-basin water transfers mainly we talk about rain water collection. All the flood water that goes to the Indian Ocean actually is what is being harvested to be channeled into a dam for future use as opposed to taking water directly from the river for direct use. Having said that, I should also mention about whether there were any resentments as requested by Sen. (Dr.) Machage from Murang’a people. This again will come out very clearly from the reports of the County Government of Murang’a which was discussed with the Athi Water Services Board and which eventually went for debate in the County Assembly of Murang’a. All that process will come to this House because we are going to get the documentation and it would be clear whether their issues were addressed. Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the question of whether the former Prime Minister did actually participated in the innovation of this project, I believe that he was the Prime Minister until March 2013 and all the documentation we are talking about here starts from 2012. There is another question which was raised by Sen. Boy Juma Boy. First, I am surprised you did not notice that Sen. Boy Juma Boy used very unparliamentary language saying the statement is a big lie. I do not believe that is proper and I need your indulgence.

Order, Chairperson! How can you be surprised that I did not notice? Actually, the Chair was surprised that you did not object.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as you know, I do not make a lot of noise when people insult me.

I agree with the Chairperson and you need to withdraw that I did not notice because I actually noticed. Alisema hoja yake Mwenyekiti wangu anasema mambo ya uongo. Kama umesema si ya ukweli hatungekuwa na shida, lakini ulisema uongo. Kwa hivyo, Sen. Boy Juma Boy hayo maneno utayakula na kuomba msamaha.

Bw. Spika, kutokana na amri yako, nakubali uamuzi wako na kuyabadilisha badala ya uongo niseme si ya ukweli. Ninaomba msamaha kwa kusema uongo lakini Mwenyekiti wangu hasemi ukweli.

Sen. Boy Juma Boy, jana tulithibitisha hapa ya kwamba hakuna kabila linaitwa Swahili. Kwa hivyo, wewe nawe usitupatie Kiswahili kingi. Sikukuliza ubadilishe, tulikuambia yale uliyanena ambayo hayaambatani na The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Bw. Spika, kwa hoja ya nidhamu: Imekuwaje leo unamuuliza Sen. Boy Juma Boy awajibike kwa matamshi yake kwa jambo ambalo limekuwa limepitwa na wakati. Hili ni jambo kulingana na mpangilio wa Kanuni za Bunge leo ilistahili kwamba Seneta Mwenyikiti asimame kwa hoja ya nidhamu wakati ule ule. Imekuwa aje umependua taratibu ya kufanya shughuli katika Bunge hili?

Hatujapindua, ni matamshi Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, jambo ulilosema sio ukweli. Wakati hujapita kwa sababu Mwenyekiti alikuwa na nafasi ya kumjibu Sen. Boy Juma Boy. Wakati ungekuwa umempita kama mazungumzo hayangekuwa yanaendelea. Endelea, Mwenyekiti. Sen. (Dr.) Machage: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Sen. (Dr.) Machage, what is your point of order? Nitashukuru ukizungumza kwa Kiswahili.

Bw. Spika, ukitafakari aliyosema Mwenyekiti, utakuwa na uamuzi moja kwamba hakujibu swali hata moja ya yale maswali ya ziada aliyoulizwa. Nakusihi umshurutishe Mwenyekiti arudie kulijibu swali hili tena katika kikao kingine.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hope that is a supplementary request from Sen. (Dr.) Machage. With your permission, I may repeat the questions that were asked and give the answers.

Order, Chairperson. You were responding to the issues raised by Sen. Boy Juma Boy. You should exhaust your replies and then consider Sen. (Dr.) Machage’s issue, which is not inviting you in any event to revisit. He is only asking whether you can come back with the documents or otherwise, as you promised. That is how I will treat this. Proceed the way you were doing before the interruptions.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have respect for Sen. (Dr.) Machage. However, I do not understand why he would rise on a point of order to say that questions have not been answered, yet I have given straight answers. For example, I have given the date when the project was started. With your permission, I will proceed to give the rest of the answers.

Proceed. You have actually responded to Sen. (Dr.) Machage’s two questions.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding the question on the cost of the project going up, I do not know whether Sen. Boy Juma Boy was referring to the project of Mwache Dam, which is in his county. Which particular dam does he feel the cost could have gone up? I am ready to give any supplementary information when I bring the rest of the documents requested by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and Sen. (Dr.) Machage. The Jubilee Government is very open to give all the information. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order, Senators. Chairperson, I agree with you that you have responded very well, in your usual manner and you need commendation. When will you table the documents that you have promised?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, since the documents will come from various sources, I request for two weeks.

You will not manufacture the documents; it is about retrieval from the same sources which you referred to. Those documents should be tabled here on Thursday next week. You have one week to go.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to indicate that one of the questions that I asked was not responded to my satisfaction because it was misunderstood.

Sen. M. Kajwang, which one was it?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when I requested for an explanation on how the increased volumes of water coming into Nairobi would be drained out, I did not mean the simplistic explanation that the Chairperson has given. What is the sewage plan for Nairobi that goes hand in hand with this water project that goes into Nairobi? I would be happy if that could be addressed. If it comes alongside the documents next week, I would still be happy.

Sen. M. Kajwang, you are right. The Chairperson responded that all the water will not be brought to Nairobi. However, the whole purpose of the project was to get water to Nairobi. Definitely, volume will be increased and the associated drainage would also be needed. Since we have taken a bit of time on this The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am trying to look at the particular part. The Northern Collector Tunnel is not a project by itself.

Order, Chairperson. We have concluded this matter. If you feel that you need more explanation, you can share with Sen. M. Kajwang. If you will need to tell the rest of the House, you will approach the Chair and we will allocate another time. For now, I am satisfied that you have discharged your responsibility; do not spoil it. BUSINESS FOR THE WEEK COMMENCING TUESDAY, 15TH NOVEMBER, 2016

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I wish to issue the Statement on the business for next week. I want to start by thanking my colleagues for a job well done. In the past one week, we have been able to pass six Bills. These are:- 1.) The County Governments (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.4 of 2016). 2.) The Reproductive Health Care Bill (Senate Bill No.17 of 2014). 3.) The County Outdoor Advertising Control Bill (Senate Bill No.11 of 2015). 4.) The Employment (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.1 of 2015). 5.) The County Library Services Bill (Senate Bill No.6 of 2015). 6.) The Petition to County Assemblies Procedure Bill (Senate Bill No.35 of 2014). This would not have been possible without dedication and I want to appreciate colleagues for a job well done. Mr. Speaker, Sir, next week, the usual meeting on Tuesday of the Senate Business Committee (SBC) will take place at 12.30p.m. to schedule the agenda. Subject to that meeting, we will have the Bills that are in Second Reading stage prioritized for Tuesday. On Wednesday, 16th November, 2016, subject to the SBC’s decisions, the Senate is expected to concentrate on Bills that are in the Committee of the Whole stage. They include the following:- 1.) National Hospital Insurance Fund (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.9 of 2015). 2.) The Parliamentary Powers and Privilege Bill (National Assembly Bill No.35 of 2014). 3.) The Alcoholic Drinks Control (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.5 of 2014). The Senate will consider any other business that may be scheduled by the SBC. On Thursday, 17th November, 2016, the Senate is expected to concentrate on Motions as well as Bills in the Second Reading. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to take this opportunity to request colleague Senators to avail themselves next week as we move towards the end of our penultimate session of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is a pending issue. There are three constitutional Bills which require 45 Members. We thought that today would be the day to make that pronouncement as to the upcoming business and the day that you have designated specifically for that. Unless we do so, we will go into the session that the Majority Leader has mentioned without voting. We agreed that to achieve that objective is itself a herculean task.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Allow me to thank the Senate Majority Leader for the Statement he has issued.

Order, Senators. If Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. could learn from Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, it is good to appreciate first before you raise the pending matters.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I appreciate the Senate Majority Leader for making sure that this week his Statement is signed and he is here.

Senate Majority Leader, what Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. has just said is important. This matter has been debated here and I have given a directive. Your Statement will not be admissible if it is not signed. It should also be clear who should read it. In your absence, make sure that there is a written communication to me on who is responsible while you are away. Failure to do so might invite sanctions. Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, despite my appreciating the Senate Majority Leader, I am amazed. In fact, there are many Kenyans that I am joining who are shocked that it is over 48 hours since Mr. Donald Trump became President-elect. America plays a key role both in the bilateral relationship and development agenda, including the security of this country. Has it not occurred to the Senate Majority Leader that he should lead this House in formally acknowledging the win by Mr. Donald Trump? Further, compounded by the fact that the country is not aware of any signed statement by the President to congratulate Mr. Donald Trump, is he confirming that the Jubilee Government is not happy with the win of President-elect, Mr. Donald Trump? Be it as it may, Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to take this opportunity to congratulate Mr. Donald Trump for his historic win, which was hard fought. I also wish to congratulate Hillary Clinton---

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. You always remind the Chair of being relevant to the Standing Orders. The Senate Majority Leader issued a statement on the business of the Senate for the coming week. I see your point, but you should raise it separately. What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Machage?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. If you listened to Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale’s point of order, it carried an introduction of a tradition that has not been the practice of this House. He says that this House has to acknowledge the election of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am guided from your directions. I was just concluding by congratulating Mr. Donald Trump for winning this historic election. I also want to congratulate Hillary Clinton for the big fight that she put up. I want to use this opportunity to sound a soft warning to the media of the world, including the Kenyan media and the pollsters that they have to remain within the ambit of their mandate. The media is not expected to create news; it is expected to report in events that become news. Yesterday, even before the election was over The Standard Newspaper, on its front page, announced to this country that Hillary Clinton was the next President of the United States of America. Polling companies also made the same error. We must take this as an opportunity to learn that polling companies are not always correct and that not everything that we read in the media is correct. Finally, allow me to congratulate the First Lady in waiting, Melania Trump, for the fantastic role that she played in managing the campaign of Donald Trump.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, just to ask for guidance from you on whether Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale was speaking on behalf of the Opposition or the Senate. If that is the case, will this matter be debated by the whole House or we assume what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has represented the entire Senate and the country?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you may wish to clarify in what capacity you were speaking.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when I rose, I just rose as a Senator of the Republic of Kenya. It is a fact that I do not hold any office in this Senate. Therefore, I could not possibly speak on behalf of the Senate. However, as a Member of the Opposition, I was expressing our surprise that the Government of Kenya has not hailed the victory by Donald Trump.

On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, do you wish to be informed by Sen. (Dr.) Machage?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me remind Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale that in the 2013 General Election, the polling was showing the CORD party was leading. So, what happened in USA is nothing very radical. It happens.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to discuss the outcome of the elections of the USA before the matter is introduced to this House through a Motion? I need clarification.

Order, Members! Sen. G.G. Kariuki and Sen. Chelule have wondered whether Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, was in order to express his views on the election on the President elect of USA and whether the Government had given a congratulatory message and in which capacity. Indeed, he has confirmed that he was speaking as the Senator for Kakamega County in the Senate of the Republic of Kenya. Speaking during Statement Hour, it is proper that a Member can raise an issue that he The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. There is a Statement listed on the Order Paper which I expected would be responded to. I am just seeking your guidance.

Which Statement?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Statement (f). It came to this House in March. To date, eight months later, a response has not been given. Could you guide us in the spirt of being dutiful, expeditious and useful to the citizens of this nation? When a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order, Sen. M. Kajwang’! It is obvious that chairpersons will usually ask for two weeks. So, that is already appreciated. It is a standard practice or procedure in the Government and I do not expect any less. So, your statement should appear on the Order Paper on Tuesday, next week. I expect the Chairperson and the Vice Chairperson of that Committee to be present. On the other matter raised by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. in terms of getting quorum for the divisions on constitutional Bills, I wish to direct, and Senate Majority Leader and Opposition Whip, you better be listening.

The Senate Majority Leader does not even seem to recognise his own name. I made reference to the Senate Majority Leader and the Vice Chairperson of the Committee on Legal affairs and Human Rights. This might be of more than passing interest to you. I direct that the House will consider those constitutional Bills on Wednesday, next week. I will take a personal roll call. You have to give me better reasons. There will be no reasons unless you are really indisposed to be away from the Chamber that day. COLLECTION OF LEVIES BY MCSK AND KAMP-PRISK FROM BUSINESS PREMISES AND PUBLIC TRANSPORT VEHICLES We are on Statement (c). Unfortunately, the Chairperson seems to have stepped out of the House but the Member who sought it is still present. That Statement should come and the rest of the Statements should be spread over next week. That will bring us to the end of the Statements Hour.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order Members. We are in the Committee of the Whole. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, we might need your guidance on this as a veteran of this House. On Order No. 8, the Mover, Sen. Hassan, is not in the House.

Mr. Chairman, Sir, although the Bill is sponsored by Sen. Hassan, the amendments are by the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. I and Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. are here to move the amendments.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): That is why I wanted you to listen carefully. It is normal practice for this House that when amendments are being made, the owner of the Bill has to be in the House either to agree or disagree with the amendments. I remind you that that is what should happen as Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale would say.

Mr. Chairman, Sir, I totally agree with your ruling but I do not know whether it makes any difference in this case because Sen. Hassan is a Member of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. He agreed with the amendments we proposed to move because we adopted the amendments as a Committee. The principle is that the sponsor of the Bill ought to be present. However, we will have no objections with any guidance that you will give.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): It is only one omission.

Mr. Chairman, Sir, your directive is correct. However, I would like to request you to invite the Chair of the Committee so as to confirm two things. First, did Sen. Hassan attend the meeting that adopted those amendments? Secondly, has he given his consent to the amendments? If that be the case, then it is possible that---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): And three, do you have any written document directing that you lead in the moving of the amendments on his behalf?

Mr. Chairman, Sir, the third is straight forward. If you look at the notices for amendments, it reads:- “NOTICE is given that Sen. Amos Wako, the Chairperson to the Standing Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, intends to move the following amendments to the Preservation of Human Dignity and the Enforcement of Economic and Social Rights Bill, 2015, at the Committee Stage.” Mr. Chairman, Sir, for your information, I am the Vice Chair and therefore---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): The notice did not say the “Chair”. It is specific to Sen. Wako. To my knowledge, you do not share that name at all either as a sibling, a brother or a son.

Mr. Chairman, Sir, I agree. However, the title is the Chairperson of the Committee. I cannot confirm that Sen. Hassan was present in the meeting. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Chairman, Sir, I confirm that when we discussed the matrix of the amendments to this Bill, Sen. Hassan was present and agreed to the proposed amendments. There are some we disagreed but they are not on the Order Paper. However, he agreed to these proposed amendments. Yesterday, we voted on a Bill on whose amendments I proposed but were moved by a different Senator. Therefore, the practice in the Committee of the Whole must be consistent because another Member moved the amendments on my behalf. I did not give any written consent but the amendments were moved on the County Outdoor Advertising Control Bill. It is fair that you direct. Thank you.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): This is my ruling. I believe in the orthodox way of looking at our Constitution and the Standing Orders. I also believe in tradition when it comes to matters of running the House of Parliament. I have only one obligation and one way to solve this. That is to order that Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. reports progress on this. So, can you approach the Chair? We will now have to report progress.

Mr. Chairman, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No. 139, I beg to move:- THAT the Committee of the Whole reports progress on the consideration of The Preservation of Human Dignity and Enforcement of Economic and Social Rights Bill.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order Sen. Murkomen. You know your Standing Orders well. Not more than one person should be on his feet. We are still at the Plenary of the House. Sen. Murkomen, can you sit next to Sen. G.G Kariuki and assist him. Well, you are a good anthropologist. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., please repeat.

seconded.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report progress that the Committee of the Whole has considered The Preservation of Human Dignity and Enforcement of the Economic and Social Rights Bill (Senate Bill No.8 of 2015) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I second.

Very well. Next Order .

Hon. Senators, with regard to Order No.9 I am informed that although the Mover of the Bill is here, the Standing Committee on Agriculture had requested that this be stood over to next week. We will, therefore, defer the Order. What is it, Sen. Kittony?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. If the Chairperson is not in, I do not think it is fair for him to request for it to be deferred again . If at all he has requested, then he should be here. This Bill has been here from 2015. It has taken a long time. If at all it has to be deferred, I would like it to be dealt with it within next week, but not longer than that.

Order, Sen. Kittony! Order, Sen. Murungi, the Chairperson, Standing Committee on Agriculture. We have the National Cereals and Produce Board (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.15 before us. While your Vice-Chairperson was in the House acting on your behalf, there were consultations between her and the Chair. The Chair granted a request by the Committee on Agriculture that this be deferred to next week. Therefore, Sen. Kittony, it is being deferred not indefinitely, but to next week. This was a decision that was made by the Chair, and I am inclined to give the same directive. So, it is deferred to next week. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, most obliged. I had also consulted the Speaker when I realised that there was lobbying.

Next Order!

Since the Chairperson of the relevant Committee is not present I will defer the Order.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. This is doing a disservice to my Bill because it has been here for so long. This Bill touches on the lives of marginalized groups and they would like to see us conclude its deliberation. The Chairman was here and I fail to understand why he decided to go away, knowing very well that he was supposed to move the amendments.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I stand corrected if you so find. My understanding is that when this Bill is called out, the most responsible person is the Mover, Sen. Omondi. If in the process she then reports to this House that the Bill had gone to the Committee, she has reasons to believe that the Committee is either improving or concurring with it. Then she would like to wait for the Committee to come and so say, then it is when we will defer it.

Hon. Senators, indeed, what Sen. Khalwale is saying is true. However, you will note that we have proposed Committee amendments by Sen. Madzayo. This Bill is coming for the first time on the Order Paper for Committee of the Whole with those amendments. I appreciate the concerns made by the Mover of the Bill. I direct that this appears in the Order Paper next week. If the Chairperson will not be present in the House to move those amendments, then we will have no option other than to drop amendments and we proceed with the Bill as it were. I, therefore, direct that. We will defer Order Nos.11 and 12.

THE TREATY MAKING AND RATIFICATION (AMENDMENT) BILL (SENATE BILL NO. 5 OF 2016) THE IMPEACHMENT PROCEDURE BILL (SENATE BILL NO.8 OF 2016) The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I beg to move that The County Statistics Bill (Senate Bill No.11 of 2016) be now read a Second Time. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, since we passed the Constitution, this is the first time we are implementing the devolved system in our country. It is important that as we continue to execute the mandate of the Constitution in regard to county governments, we should make laws that empower devolution. This Bill will breathe life to Part 2 of the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution that sets out the functions of the county governments. One of the functions that have been devolved to the county governments is county planning and development, which includes statistics, planning, land survey and mapping, boundaries and fencing, housing, electricity and gas, reticulation and energy regulation. Statistics is a very important function in any nation, especially in the counties. This Bill also expressly stipulates how statistics will be collected and disseminated to the public. Most importantly, it sets out how these statistics will be used in decision making in our counties. There have been various reservations regarding the kind of information that the county statistics office will collect. The Bill clearly states that the county statistics office will look at the functions that have been devolved. It will not look into matters to do with population. It was a concern of many that we should not give the counties this important function. This Bill will ensure that we get statistics of the functions that have been devolved to counties to ensure that it influences the executive, the county assemblies and members of the public to get information about the functions that have been devolved. This is something that we should have had in place earlier. Without information and statistics, we cannot make scientifically proven decisions in the counties. In our counties, for example, we have devolved the Early Childhood Development Education (ECDE). The decision by the county executives in terms of the population of an ECDE institution and where it should be located should be informed by scientific research. We should not use resources haphazardly in the counties without having information that guides the executive to make some of the decisions. Information on the health facilities showing the numbers of staff and what is needed should be available to any person. For example, a Senator should be able to walk to the county office and find out, for example, whether water supply has improved since the county government came into office. We should also get credible information on issues to do with agriculture in the counties. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in some of the counties, governors go round saying that since they got into office, they have been able to do A, B, C and D, using certain funds. However, there is no method of verifying whether what they say is true. It is not easy to ascertain whether our funds are used appropriately in the manner they should. Therefore, if we have this office in our counties, it will ensure that we get the information that we need. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I did not mean to interrupt the Mover because she is presenting very eloquently. This Bill is authored and presented to this House by Sen. Lesuuda. However, in her moving notes, she keeps saying: “we”. Who are these “we”?

Sen. Lesuuda, who are “we”?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we know how we operate in coming up with a Bill. So, I am still thinking that I am engaging with the many others that we sat to deliberate on this matter and even at the level of public participation with the Committee. However, I am so guided. It is my Bill. I was at the point of how best the national and county governments will share this information and ensure there is consultation between the two levels of Government. It The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

.: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to second this very important Bill and congratulate Sen. Lesuuda for coming up with it and I will be brief in highlighting some reasons. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance. I rise to give my support to this extremely well thought out Bill. I want to congratulate the distinguished Senator for work well done. This is something that will be remembered for many years to come. The fruits of this Bill can be seen long before they are born because of the achievements that have been laid out. I have listened very well to the presentation made by the Mover and I could not help but wonder what we have been relying on up to this point. We have just passed the fourth budget cycle since the county governments were started. All the benefits that she has enumerated that this Bill seeks to bring make me wonder what we have been relying on up to this point. I support this Bill for various other reasons other than those that have been enumerated by the Mover and the Seconder. Nowadays, data driven policy is a global standard of management that people rely on. As they say, figures do not lie. When someone has the numbers right, he or she will get the solutions.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, please protect me from the very excited Senator for Elgeyo-Marakwet.

What might be exciting the Senator for Elgeyo-Marakwet? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, many things that are not worth mentioning before this honourable House.

Very well. You are protected.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Murkomen, what is your point of order?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Sen. Cheruiyot said that figures do not lie and then he looked at me and tried to mimic a song. That is the only reason he seeks protection. Is he in order after comparing figures with other things to try to drive it at me?

What song did he mimic?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not know.

Proceed, Sen. Cheruiyot.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was talking about data driven policy as a standard for management in this day and age where figures that are presented are analyzed before making an informed decision. This Bill puts us squarely in an open and lovely manner that upon the successful completion of this exercise, the decision makers and the people who will be given the mandate to lead the county governments will have figures to rely on when making decisions. Immediately after I was elected, I wanted to run a programme on youth empowerment in my county, which was one of the key pillars of my manifesto. I walked into the county government offices and requested for figures and statistics on the number of unemployed youth in my county and their level of education. It is unfortunate that even after seeking the same information from the social services office which is under the national Government, I still could not get the figures. I kept wondering what I could do. Today, I am fortunate that with the passing of this Bill in the Senate, nobody will ever struggle with such situations. For example, in Kericho County, the county that I represent, the budgetary allocation is shared by the number of wards yet all wards are not the same. In certain wards, the biggest problem the citizenry face is water and in other wards, it is access to good roads. Unfortunately, due to politics, Members of County Assembly (MCAs) do not want to go back and face their electorate to explain to them that they were given less money for water because they conceded part of the budgetary allocation, for example, road network to be given more funding. They cannot explain this if they do not have the kind of statistics that will be brought forth upon the successful passing of this Bill. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, once we have such statistics, it will no longer be difficult for MCAs to face their electorate and explain why they have conceded to use the amount of money that was to be used for water services and traded it off with an increase in the amount for infrastructure development because he or she knows that the biggest challenge his or her own ward faces is road network as opposed to water. As things stand today, simple calculations on what the executive has proposed as the budget for road network in the county is done. For example, if it is Kshs800 million, it is divided by the number of wards without due considerations. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Very well. Sen. Omondi!

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to add my voice to this important Bill. I can say it is timely and I want to congratulate Sen. Lesuuda for coming up with such a Bill. I have been asking myself so many questions about having data on disability within our counties. I will ask her if I can come up with an amendment or she includes this in this Bill that when carrying out the exercise of statistics, mapping and coming up with the number of people in the counties, it should have a column that reads that the number of people with disabilities in that area and the type of disability. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the reason why I have passion for that to be included is because it is going to give room for proper planning where persons with disabilities within counties can benefit from the planning depending on the type of disability and their needs will be reached. It is also going to help people with disabilities within the counties to get their share in terms of budgeting. Right now, what is happening is that The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Sen. Bule, are you on a point of order?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, no.

Then you need to press the right button.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it will help us do away with the issue of rigging elections. This is because we will have information on how many people died within the ward or county and, therefore, eliminate ghost voters. There will be statistics simplified to the point where it can be accessed and understood by the people within a specific area. Kenyans will not need to plan long journeys to Nairobi County to access the needed statistics. Service delivery and efficiency will also be improved in terms of people who want to know the population of a particular area. In service delivery, it will help us provide services according to the population and the needs of the people within an area. I believe that these needs can be well addressed if we know and interact with them. We can then plan, map and reach out to them, not only by having figures on papers, but also going there physically to ascertain that these are the people that reside in that particular area. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Very well. I will give the Floor to Sen. Murkomen. However, Sen. Bule, you are behaving as if you have intentions to contribute, but you are not appearing on the screen. The last time you appeared on interventions. I hope my reading of your demeanor is wrong that you do not intend to contribute because you are not appearing on my screen. If you do, then press the right button.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first, I congratulate my friend, Sen. Lesuuda, for coming up with such an important Bill. Many people refuse or forget that the Constitution is very specific on Part 2 of the Fourth Schedule, that statistics matters are county matters. This was not by accident. Part 2, Paragraph 8 of the Constitution says:- “County planning and development, including – (a) Statistics; (b) land survey and mapping; (c) boundaries and fencing; (d) housing; and (e) electricity and gas reticulation and energy regulation.” So, the context within which statistics is represented in the Constitution is under county planning and development. You cannot tell me that we will continue planning and pursuing development in the county when statistics is not an integral part of that planning and development. It is very clear from the submissions of Sen. Lesuuda and those of the Seconder, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., that there is a lot that needs to be done when it comes to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

You seem to have a lot of information about Senators that might not be in the public domain.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am happy today. First, I congratulate Sen. Lesuuda for coming up with this fantastic Bill which is an eye opener to our people in the counties. This is wonderful law if the Senate passes it. The best Bill that this House passed is the famous Sen. Sang’s Bill which was sponsored by you. However, it was shelved. The other is this Bill sponsored by Sen. Lesuuda. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the statistics that will be collected at the county level will be the truth if collected correctly. In the last census, the statistics that were collected and which we use to share the resources are false. The information was deceitful. In fact, we fail to plan but we do not plan to fail. This is the only way we can plan for our counties. This Bill will ease the misuse and misappropriation of funds. It will even ease the corruption in our country. The funds that we always fight for in our counties have been pocketed by the executive because there is no planning. At the moment, counties’ statistics are not current. If we get the statistics from the grassroots, it will help the governors to plan for the right projects that they ought to provide to their people. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

There being no other interest to contribute, I ask the Mover can reply.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I take this opportunity to thank my colleagues for their detailed contributions to this Bill. I agree with them that it is an important Bill for our counties. With regard to education, we should allocate bursary funds appropriately to ensure that the beneficiaries access the funds for all the four years in school. It should be on record how many students should access the education funds for the four years and those who need support for a limited time. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I agree with Sen. Omondi on issues to deal with people with disabilities. The social services docket is important. Sometimes we make assumptions that all that people living with disabilities need wheelchairs and that it is a devolved function. It is important to note how many need aiding sticks, among others. She brought up an important issue. We need to know how many youth are accessing the 30 per cent allocation of all Government procurement tenders for the youth. Alongside many other issues raised, Sen. Murkomen has said that it is not only about collecting the data but also interrogating some of the available data. I thank all my colleagues and I hope that they will support the Bill during Division. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move and further request that we defer putting the Question to tomorrow pursuant to Standing Order No.54 (3).

I direct that the putting of the Question be deferred to Tuesday next week.

Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30p.m., time to interrupt the business of the Senate. The Senate stands adjourned until Tuesday, 15th November, 2016 at 2.30p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate