Order, Members! We have a number of Statements to be issued. Let us go first to request for Statements.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise under Standing Order No.45(2)(a) to make a Statement on a county issue. On 5th November, 2016, a section of Bukhungu Stadium in Kakamega which is currently under construction collapsed. The estimated cost of this project is Kshs1 billon. One week after this incident, the Governor of Kakamega, hon. Wycliffe Ambetsa Oparanya, made a reshuffle in the procurement section within the county government executive leaving only the head of the procurement section. No officers were immediately deployed to the section. On 14th November, 2016, all the computers in the procurement section of the county government were mysteriously stolen. The theft was stage-managed as there was no evidence of a break-in and the CCTV cameras had deliberately been switched off. That, therefore, leads to the conclusion that the theft had been instigated by an insider. With this, therefore, all information pertaining to procurement of all projects in the county within Kakamega have vanished. Even with the unfolding of all these events, the Governor for Kakamega has not uttered a single word nor has he given an official communication regarding the matter. The police have also been reluctant to record statements from the head of the procurement section and the officers serving in that section. Instead, the police have shifted their focus to the county junior enforcement officers who were on duty during the theft. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, during the sitting of the Senate on 23rd March, 2016, Sen. M. Kajwang requested for a Statement. I gave the Statement earlier but he sought further clarification. I want to state the following:- The National Police Service has been using an analogue two way communication system---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! Since when did you become analogue? I cannot see your request.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I just wanted to draw your attention that under Article 12(a), it has been our tradition that for a statement to be given by the Chair, the Senator who requested for the same should be in the House. I do not know whether we want to give an exception to this one since I noticed that Sen. M. Kajwang is not around.
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, which article did you make reference to?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I meant Standing Order No.1(2), which provides that according to the usages of this House---.
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, it is not only that Sen. M. Kajwang is absent today and was also absent yesterday. Apparently, you were also absent yesterday. This issue came up yesterday and the Chair was magnanimous to give another one more day for the Senator to be available. The Chairs expressed frustration that sometimes they come ready to give statements but Members disappear. So, the Chair was magnanimous to give an additional one day and appealed to any Member who knows Sen. M. Kajwang to convey the same. Apparently, even you, who is very caring, did not bother to do that and the Chair has no information, whatsoever, on why he is not here. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, one of the questions Sen. M. Kajwang requested later is whether the amount paid for the 4G licence has been deposited in the Consolidated Fund and how the Government intends to take over control and management of this project upon completion. The overall objective of the Communication System Project is to modernize the communication infrastructure systems and capability for the police to pro-actively manage the security in the country. However, the money that was supposed to have been paid to the Consolidated Fund cannot only be answered by the Treasury because the Office of the President does not control the receipt of money.
Next statement. HELB LOANS ADVANCED TO UNIVERSITY STUDENTS
Is the Chairman of the Committee on Education here? If not, do we have the Vice Chair or any Member of that Committee? Senate Majority Leader, account for the absence of the Chair.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not aware of the specific status but I undertake to communicate to the Chair any directions that the Speaker may give. I do not want to mislead the House because I do not have any information on the status of this Statement.
Order, Members. The Chair of the Committee on Education was here yesterday and he promised to be here today. That means that Statement (d) will also be affected. Let us hear from Sen. Sang regarding Statement (d). LEADERSHIP CRISIS AT MOI UNIVERSITY
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you directed that the Chairperson should deliver a response on the outstanding issues on this Statement but I cannot see him in this House. Therefore, I seek your guidance.
Let us have Statement (c) issued by the Chairperson of the Sessional Committee on Devolved Government. PROLONGED DROUGHT AND FAMINE IN VARIOUS COUNTIES
We had also given an extension on this one and today was supposed to be the last time but even the Chair himself is not present. Order, Members. Under the circumstances, we will push statements (b), (c) and (d) to tomorrow afternoon. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I came in late and my statement has passed and I apologise. I have been looking for the relevant Standing Order for coming late but I did not find it. Nonetheless, I understand that the statement that I requested for is ready and it has taken eight months. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg your indulgence that the statement be read in an abridged form. I have seen it and it is lengthy. Could the Chair just abridge it and then I will comment on it?
The Chair. STATUS OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY COMMUNICATION SYSTEM
Mr. Speaker, Sir, with all due respect, I attempted to issue this statement twice in the absence of my friend, Sen. M. Kajwang. You have already made a ruling and gave me instructions which I have followed. I do not want to be a parrot; repeating myself. I decline to do that.
What is it, Sen. M. Kajwang.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you have previously extolled the remarkable virtues of the Chairperson of this Committee. Never before have you attributed the word “parrot” to him. So, I would not want him to be a parrot. However, I seek your indulgence. We requested for this Statement in March. It is only in the last three weeks that the Chairperson has attempted to respond to it. You may recall that the first response was that those were national secrets that could not be revealed but you intervened. The Chairperson went back, camped at the Ministry and got a statement. It would do him justice if he read that statement that he really sweat to bring to this House after eight months.
Order. Sen. Haji, given the long period that your statement has been sought and taken to produce, I appreciate you have been ready with it since yesterday. You have actually already issued it. Since the Member has apologised, just issue it.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not intend to defy your order. However, I made a lot of effort and quarreled with people to get this statement. I can only read it again tomorrow, not today. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Members. The statement will be issued tomorrow afternoon. The Member and the Chairperson should be present. Failure by one party will --- What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Machage?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Would I be in order to thank you for making an observation of the cardinal rule, respect to the elders in the African society? Despite the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations breaching Standing Order No.110(i), in your wisdom as a youth, you observed that cardinal unwritten law and allowed him to breach it and get away with it.
What is it, Sen. Hassan?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is Sen. (Dr.) Machage in order to call you a youth yet we know that the definition of a youth is anybody below the age of 35 years? Is Sen. (Dr.) Machage in order to insinuate that you have not yet attained the age of 36 years?
What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Are both Senators in order; Sen. Hassan and Sen. (Dr.) Machage, to assume your age? First, that you are an adult, and secondly, that you are youth, when it is not on record anywhere in this Senate that you have stated your age? Mr. Speaker, Sir, because you are a kind man, the furthest you can go is to understand that Sen. Hassan might be confused but Sen. (Dr.) Machage who is a doctor of medicine is supposed to have a good grasp of age. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I leave it to you.
Order, hon. Senators! Sen. (Dr.) Machage, you are completely out of order. You will appreciate that I did not direct the Chairperson to respond to the statement because of the circumstances in which this statement has been made. However, I directed that the statement should be made in the absence of Sen. M. Kajwang but before we were out of that order, Sen. M. Kajwang walked in and apologised to the House. I was expecting that the Chairperson of the Committee would be magnanimous enough like the Speaker to allow. So, he is still on his right not to do the same job twice. He has not breached Standing Order No.110. Secondly, you are definitely right that it is not just appreciating age. The use of the word “youth” is relative to the seniority of Sen. Haji. When you also consider Article 57 of our Constitution about how we should treat older members of the society, including the older Senators, you will begin to appreciate my dilemma. Therefore, the statement will be issued tomorrow afternoon.
Sen. Hargura, did you have a statement to issue?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have a request for statement.
Proceed, with your request. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.45(2)(b) to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget regarding the Equalization Fund established under Article 204 of the Constitution of Kenya, 2010. In the statement, the Chairperson should respond to the following:- (a) How much money has been allocated since the promulgation of the Constitution of Kenya, 2010? (b) How has the fund been utilized to date? (c) How much was allocated to the Fund this Financial Year; 2016/2017, and which counties benefited? (d) What projects have been identified for implementation of the Fund and how much has been allocated per county? (e) How were the projects identified?
Where is the Chairperson, Vice Chairperson or any Member of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget? Proceed, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the information is straightforward. Most of it is in the custody of the Committee. We will take seven days. We request to issue it next Thursday.
Next Thursday is tomorrow.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is Thursday the following week.
It will be issued on Thursday next week. Order, hon. Senators. That brings us to the end of statement hour. I will have to rearrange the next Orders so that we deal with Order No.17
Next Order!
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): We are now in the Committee of the Whole to consider The County Statutory Instruments Bill (Senate Bill No.10 of 2015).
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Division will be at the end. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Division will be at the end. Hon. Senators, we do not have the requisite number to vote, therefore, we have to report progress.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, pursuant to Standing Orders No.139, I beg to move that the Committee of the Whole reports to the House its considerations of The County Statutory Instruments Bill (Senate Bill No.10 of 2015) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.
. seconded.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that a Committee of the Whole has considered The County Statutory Instruments Bill (Senate Bill No.10 of 2015) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee of the Whole on the said report.
. seconded.
Next Order!
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): We are looking at Order No.18; The National Cereals and Produce Board (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.15 of 2015).
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Division will be at the end.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 4 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) of the proposed New Clause 12 C by deleting paragraph (g) (iii).
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Maybe, you will have to enlighten the Members by explaining a little your proposed amendment. Kindly read what you are amending and tell us a little why you want to amend it.
Sen. Madzayo, I am addressing you. If you have no comment, say so. Why do you want to amend this clause?
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, it is for obvious reasons.
(Sen. (Dr) Machage): You may refer to your notes.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, it is as indicated in the Order Paper. That is what I can say.
On a point of order Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. I must be in the minority, but I would like to know why he is deleting. Why should I support him in deleting without him convincing me?
(Sen. (Dr) Machage): You see, without a reason for amendment, I will subject this request to a vote. So, it is your onus and duty to convince everybody why you want this amended. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, could you give me two or three minutes so that I can refer to my notes?
(Sen. (Dr) Machage): We do not have the luxury of time.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I think you are a little bit unfair because whenever other Members have requested for the same, they have been accorded that opportunity. I am only asking for a few minutes.
(Sen. (Dr) Machage): I will stay Clause 4. Let us move to Clause 5 and then we come back to Clause 4. I think your request was sincere.
(Sen. (Dr) Machage): We will have the Division at the end.
On a point of order Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. I rise under Standing Order No. 136, which provides that that you can only go to where you have gone after you have exhausted the amendments on clauses printed. Could you kindly go back and exhaust the printed amendment by the Chairman before you go where you are going? Otherwise, we are in total breach of Standing Order No.136.
(Sen. (Dr) Machage): Sen. (Dr) Khalwale, to my recollection, this is your third term in Parliament. You know that I have not called for voting at all. In any case, there is Standing Order No.1 that I can use at my disposal at any time, including now.
On a point of order Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. I agree with you fully, and with due respect, that you can move under Standing Order No. 1. However, you can only move under Standing Order No.1 where it is not provided for. In this case, Standing Order No. 136 provides that:- “In considering a Bill in the Committee of the Whole, the various parts thereof shall be considered in the following sequence- (a) clauses printed, excluding the clause providing for the citation of the Bill, the commencement, if any, and the interpretation; (b) new clause; (c) schedules; (d) new schedules; (e) interpretation; The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr) Machage): Sen. Madzayo, you seem to have an advocate in the name of Sen. (Dr) Khalwale. Can you argue your amendment now, otherwise, he has instructed me from that position to discontinue your amendment. Actually, Sen. (Dr) Khalwale is right.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir.
(Sen. (Dr) Machage): Before you continue, can the clause be read.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, let me read the paragraph that we are deleting, for the benefit of Sen. (Dr) Khalwale.
(Sen. (Dr) Machage): Order! It is for the benefit of the House.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, he is the one who asked the question.
(Sen. (Dr) Machage): Order! It is for the benefit of the House, because the same question was raised by Sen. Sang.
I stand guided, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. The paragraph that we are deleting reads:- “Establishing research centres for the production of high yield maize, wheat and scheduled agricultural produce in the county.” Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, all I wanted to submit was that---
(Sen. (Dr) Machage): Order, Sen. Ndiema! That is corruption.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I agree with you 100 per cent. We do not want corruption in this country. We know where it originates from.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. Could the Senator, who is my senior and mentor, advise the House where corruption originates from? I would wish to know so that we can close the shop where it originates from. Could the Senator tell us the name and the place?
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(Sen. (Dr) Machage): Order! The Standing Orders dictate that when a Senator is challenged to substantiate an issue that he or she has stated, he or she has to do that. So, you are challenged.
On a point of order Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. Did you observe that Sen. Madzayo never mentioned anybody, party or any part of the House? Could it be that Sen. Elachi, in the proverbial phrase ‘the guilty are afraid,’ is already aware that Sen. Madzayo is referring to the Jubilee, and that is why she stood?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. The rules in this House are clear; that once a Senator makes an allegation and another Senator stands on a point of order to request for substantiation, the process of substantiating is clear. Is Sen. (Dr) Khalwale, therefore, in order to take us in circles, instead of giving time to the Senator for Kilifi County to substantiate, having been asked to do so?
(Sen. (Dr) Machage): Indeed, Sen. (Dr) Khalwale is completely out of order. I order that Sen. Madzayo, under Standing Order No.94 substantiates.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I think my Senator is in order because today, Kilifi County is full of---
(Sen. (Dr) Machage): Order! There is only one Chair in this House, and that is me. You are out of order.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. Is it in order for Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to act on behalf of Sen. Madzayo every time a question is directed to him? He should give us the reasons for the amendments to this important Bill. Is it in order for “Mr. Khalwale “ to stand every time a question is directed to Sen. Madzayo?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I want to inform you that in the medical profession, if you are called ‘Mister’, you are a surgeon. I do not remember knowing Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale as a surgeon. You are out of order to refer to him as ‘Mister.’ Secondly, it has not come to my notice that every time Sen. Madzayo stands on an issue, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale defends it. I will start to be observant from today. Sen. Madzayo, could you substantiate?
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I have not instructed anybody in this House to act on my behalf. I am an advocate of the High Court of Kenya and a former judge of the High Court in the Industrial Court Division. I have not given any instructions to any Senator. I hope that I have made myself clear on that. If I may respond, the establishment of research centres---
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! You have the obligation to address this House on the issue of substantiation. Having enumerated your capacities, I expect you to execute this one properly.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, first and foremost, I did not accuse anyone. Secondly, that allegation was not directed at anybody or any party whatsoever. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): To my understanding, Standing Order No.94 does not direct you to only substantiate if you have addressed an issue to a person or the subject you have so mentioned. I will give you another one minute to read Standing Order No.94. Being an advocate, I expect you to have a grasp of this. Please, substantiate and if you cannot, simply withdraw and apologize; it is noble to do that.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, you surprise me with that ruling. I am inclined to believe that your decision is prejudiced.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. It is important that this House maintains the dignity and accords the Chair the respect he deserves. Is the hon. Member, who has illustrated in his own terms the illustrious career he has had as a judge, lawyer and Senator, in order to impute improper motives and, with impunity, defy the directions of the Chair? If we encourage this kind of behavior, we will not have a House.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Let me remind him about Standing Order Nos. 110(i) and 111. I do not need to read because you are a lawyer. If anybody stands under Standing Order No. 111, you will lose three days in Parliament. I will be fair to assume that I did not hear what you said in your last comment and just demand that you withdraw and apologize for the first mistake. I am still thinking about how to deal with the second mistake.
On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, whom do you want to inform?
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I want to inform Sen. Madzayo.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Madzayo, do you want to be informed?
Yes, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Go ahead, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I would like to inform Sen. Madzayo that the corruption he is talking about, and for which he is under a lot of pressure to apologize, refers to the corruption in the Jubilee Government, as evidenced by the scandals in the Standard Gauge Railway (SGR), Eurobond, the National Youth Service (NYS)---
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! Sen. Madzayo vehemently and clearly stated on the Floor of this House that he has never and may never instruct you to talk for him. In any case, you are not even a lawyer. Sen. Madzayo, do you accept that information? For the sake of saving time, simply apologize and we continue.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. There is always a temptation by people who have been convicted and stayed in prison to develop some imaginary thinking that they could be lawyers and could understand the law. Sometimes, they purport to represent others even when they clearly do not have those qualifications. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Sang, whereas you are critical in your thinking, I may not be inclined to think that is what is in his mind. However, I want to remind the Senator of the consequences if he so desires not to withdraw and apologize. I will invoke Standing Order No. 110 and throw him out of the House. He will, therefore, miss the opportunity to defend his amendment. I will subject it to vote without him being around---
.: On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. So that we can all be on the same page, Standing Order No.94 (2) states that:- “If a Senator has sufficient reason to convince Speaker that the Senator is unable to substantiate the allegations instantly, the Speaker shall require that such Senator substantiates the allegations not later than the next sitting day.” Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, for good order and for all of us who want to follow your directions, before you exercise your powers to throw out people, I propose that the HANSARD be provided. There is something called ‘public notoriety.’ If these are matters of public notoriety, then he will not be required to substantiate. Since you are the Chair and I am standing here, I propose that you order that the HANSARD be provided and that he substantiates tomorrow. If that statement is inaccurate, he will then withdraw and apologize. However, if the statement is a matter of public notoriety, you will have to invoke Standing Order No.1, where matters of public notoriety constitute evidence under the Evidence Act.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I will, therefore, give Sen. Madzayo another opportunity to substantiate. He has not indicated that he is unable to substantiate now. I would want that to be said by the said Senator for me to invoke that Standing Order.
Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, thank you so much for your directives. I would not want to withdraw. All I would ask is that the HANSARD be produced and I will be ready to make my remarks tomorrow.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. Let us continue. Can you explain why you want the amendment done? I have ordered that you substantiate tomorrow.
Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, do you have to repeat all the time? I thought I heard you!
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Senator Madzayo. You are out of order to do that. As a former judge, I believe you have that power. Just relax and continue to explain your amendment.
On a point of Order Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage: What is it, Sen. Muthama?
Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, it should be noted that Sen. Madzayo is getting agitated because as a former and retired judge, he is used to giving rulings the way the Chair gave and there should be no more comments after the ruling. The person who has to be hanged is hanged and that is all. He should be given that benefit of the doubt and be understood to have received the orders of the Chair. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. I am sure that is what Sen. Madzayo has done. All I did was to ask under which Standing Order he was being instructed to act tomorrow. I think it is within the powers of this House to remind him of that Standing Order. Continue, Sen. Madzayo.
Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, this function is currently being handled by the National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB) which is now the intention of the House to have this Bill so that it becomes a national issue which the Government should be able to handle. This is because all researches are being handled by the Kenya Agricultural and Livestock Research Organization (KARLO) instead of the NCPB.That is why that amendment is necessary.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Yes, Sen. Haji.
Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir,while I am not disputing what Sen. Madzayo is saying, does the NCPB have the expertise and researches on improving the quality of maize?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): May be before we discuss the amendment as laid on the Floor by Sen. Madzayo, I have to propose the Question that Clause 4 be amended as proposed.
I thought you are standing on a point of order. You can now start the debate.
Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I was just wondering; if I understood my brother correctly, that the research being done by KARLO now on the improvement of maize quality, the Committee on Agriculture intends to transfer it to the NCPB. I do not think they have the technical people who can do such research, and the land on which they do proper research to help the farmers in this country to produce better seeds.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen.Ndiema.
Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I think Sen. Haji is right and that is specifically why that clause is being deleted because the Bill proposes that NCPB does research and establishes research institutions. That clause is being deleted because that is not its function.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Haji.
. Sir, I think I misunderstood.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Any other contribution?
Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I also support the amendment by Sen. Madzayo to establish the County Cereals and Produce Boards (CCPB). The functions of the board are being amended by Sen. Madzayo, and when we establish a County Cereals and Produce Board, it cannot undertake research. Research should be undertaken at the national level by the NCPB which is a national state corporation.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I see no other interest and will therefore put the question.
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(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Division will be at the end.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Division will be at the end. Since we do not have the numbers, I call upon the Mover to report progress.
Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on agriculture in the said report.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage: Order. Just approach the Bench so that I show you what to do.
Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No. 139, I beg to move that the Committee of the Whole do report its consideration of The National Cereals and Produce Board(Amendment Bill (Senate Bill No. 15 of 2015)and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.
Order, Senators! Chairperson, can you report!
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered The National Cereals and Produce Board (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.15 of 2015) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.139, I beg to move that the Committee of the Whole do report its considerations of The National Cereals and Produce Board (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.15 of 2015) and-- - The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Sen. Kittony! I think you are reading something else. Approach the bench and you will be shown what to read.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report.
Sen. Kittony, you need to have a seconder.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to second.
What is your point of order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Did you notice that Sen. Cheruiyot upon coming from the back of the Speaker’s Chair passed there without bowing to you? Is he in order to lack respect for the Chair?
I did not see that. Sen. Cheruiyot, if that happened, just stand up, go back and respect the Chair before you sit down. Do the needful and be serious.
Next order! Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., are you ready for us to move to the Committee of the Whole?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is a representative of the Committee, Sen. Chelule, who can give that information in the best way.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not think we are ready to discuss the The Physical Planning Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 46 of 2015) today because we postponed our meeting to tomorrow. We have arranged tomorrow for the same purpose.
What is your point of order, Majority Leader?
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I want to bring to your attention as you give direction on that particular Order that The Physical Planning Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 46 of 2015) is one of the Bills that ought to have been passed by 27th August, 2016. So, it is an urgent Bill and I have received a lot of pressure from the relevant Ministry because it will streamline the sector of physical planning. There isalot confusion especially after devolution. I wanted to plead with you and the Committee that you expedite the finalization of this Bill. I have enough letters reminding us to process this Bill and we are way beyond the constitutional deadline.
Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., do you want to say something?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to agree with the Majority Leader but the issues that I have raised and those we disagreed with the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Let me order the Chairperson of the Committee and the Committee that you need to sit down with Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. It is a very serious Bill with severe implications if you will not look at it properly on how the interests of the counties are taken care of. So, do it fast so that the Majority Leader will not be in a position where he is not fast tracking. By Tuesday next week, it has to be in the Order Paper. Next Order!
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the The Warehouse Receipts System Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 12 of 2015) be read a Second Time. This Bill addresses a very fundamental problem facing the agricultural sector today. Normally when there is a harvest, a lot of food in terms of grains and cereals go to waste. In this country, we have a situation where in a season a lot of food is harvested but most of that food is either disposed of at a very low price because farmers do not have the wherewithal for storage or even when farmers want to store the food awaiting better prices or awaiting market research in terms of where they can sell at good prices, the food, especially cereals and grains, go to waste. It is estimated that about 60 per cent of food goes to waste somewhere between harvesting and post-harvesting stages. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this Bill is trying to address a very important problem. We know that in this country we have a system which involves Government storing all cereals and, especially maize which is the staple food in our country. This is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Ndiema, you have to wait for the Chair to give you the chance. You may continue.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I was eager to stand and fully support this Bill because it is about food security in our country. This Bill seeks to bring legislation that will regulate warehousing which is long overdue for an agricultural country like Kenya. As we all know, farmers are very hard working and Kenya is known for its agricultural production yet a lot of what we produce goes to waste within a short time. This happens because of post-harvest loses which could well be managed. For a long time--- I need some protection Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
Senators, kindly consult in low tones.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We lose a lot of grains in the farms and in the stores because majority of our farmers are small-scale farmers who do not have the capacity or the knowledge of ensuring proper storage of grains and other agricultural products. That has led to losses to the farmers and the Government. The institutions that finance farmers such as Agricultural Finance Corporation (AFC) and the banks also go at a loss when farmers do not get any profit. It is not strange that some farmers have to buy food and even go without food in about two months after the harvest even in areas where there is high production like Trans Nzoia County.This is because they are small-scale farmers and are forced to dispose of the produce to meet their daily needs such as buying medicine for their children or paying school fees. Majority of the farmers depend on farming as a means of sustaining themselves. In most cases, they have to sell quickly to earn and pay loans thus they are sometimes forced to sell when the prices are not good.Seasonality of production and harvest happen at the same time and some farmers do not have stores. Some of them do not build stores because they do not own the farms hence they are forced to sell their produce at a throwaway price. There are cases where they do not make any returns. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Ndiema, I can see you are an expert in this. I will add you more time. Therefore, do not rush because you will not be timed.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I still have time. There are so many people, say, the brokers, the millers handling the storage and transportation. The products end up being very expensive. This system will ensure that the issue of brokers will be minimized, the farmer will deliver their grain to the store and even handling the product will be hustle-free. We know of cases where maize has been transported all the way to the NCPB stores in Nairobi and when there is hunger or lack of food in Turkana, it is again transported through Kitale again all the way to Turkana because of lack of logistics. If this system was there, the firm, whether private or public, would establish a warehouse in Turkana. Whenever there is food shortage, whether it is the national or the county government which wants to procure for the people, they will do it there. This system will also be open to the private sector. Therefore, the Government will also be relieved of the burden of running stores all over the country. In fact, the National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB) might consider leasing out its stores to warehousing companies. Even keeping grain for emergency by the Government may not be necessary. All the Government needs is to keep some funds for contingency purposes and then when there is shortage, it is procured from the local warehouses instead of storing it at NCPB. The NCPB has ended up keeping it for about six to eight years because they are not sure. At the end of the day, it is declared unfit for human consumption. This would obviate that problem. The Warehouse Receipt System is very opportune. Some countries in the region have already established it. Rwanda has such a system and they are not in the state where we have been. Tanzania has started it. We should not be left behind. The issue of lack of storage for farmers has made them so desperate that they would want to offload their produce to where it promises a good price. Even brokers and fraudsters have come to counties like Trans-Nzoia, where they promise to give a good price, take the maize and say they will pay in a week, then a week becomes a month. At the end of the day, one cannot trace those people and can only imagine their faces. Many farmers have lost through fraudsters. However, with this system now in place, the people who hold warehouses will be vetted. They will be known by name and company. There will be some form of insurance to ensure that if there is any loss, at least somebody will be held responsible. Even the Government can be held responsible because they are the ones licensing the warehouses If a warehouse cons farmers, the Government, in a way should compensate because it is known and there is a record. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Bill. Let me use one minute to say that once again, we have proved that once a Bill comes from the National Assembly, we consider it irrespective of the fact that the National Assembly does not reciprocate our kindness at all. Secondly, this is a very innovative Bill in terms of the system that is proposes. It seeks the process of depositing commodities in a licensed warehouse, the issuance of a warehouse receipt reflecting the quantity and quality of the deposited commodity, the management of the transfer of the receipt as a document of title and also but not limited to regulation of houses and actors associated in the process. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, one of the counties that have suffered most in terms of warehousing of commodities is Makueni County. If there is a place where weevils have been given all sorts of names from “Osama” to any other, it is Makueni County because the weevils have terrorized farmers’ produce that they have been given a name associated with a terrorist. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have not confirmed but I am told that due to some historical injustices, warehouses that are on the lower part of eastern side, which includes Makueni, do not have driers. However, warehouses that are on the upper side such as Naivasha or part of the Rift Valley have driers. So, maize is collected from my county which is Makueni and then taken to Rift Valley and stored there after being dried. Maize from Rift Valley is then taken to warehouses in Makueni. During the drought season, they then bring maize that was from Makueni and sell it at three times the cost. It is no wonder that although Makueni is an agricultural area, it has remained poor yet the farmers work very hard. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have heard Sen. Ndiema say that the NCPB can now lease its warehouses. The correct information is that they are already leasing their warehouses to “private developers” or licensees. That is like a tragedy in a country where we are talking about food security. Some people are suffering and others are already facing starvation yet there are warehouses in this country that have got more maize than is supposed to be kept in those warehouses. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have farmers who have not been paid and the NCPB has been mentioned in all the scandals that you can name. Money is not being utilised properly. Farmers sell their produce but they do not get their returns. If they The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Bill. I am very excited because it is innovative to the extent that we are now moving to learn from the best international practices. This has made it possible for a country of over 1 billion people, namely India, to remain self-reliant in food. I, therefore, wish to congratulate the Mover for the admission that what we have been doing in the country has not been the best. Why? Some of Kenya’s worst scandals have taken place in the maize sector. One is reminded of the scandal of 2009 where a Minister for Agriculture sat in Nairobi and started dishing out chits that enabled unscrupulous business people to mint hundreds of millions of shillings out of maize and other cereals that had been kept at the National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB). I recall that this was such a major scandal that it led to the then, Prime Minister, hon. Raila Odinga to suspend the Minister in question. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, having acknowledged that, allow me to quickly look at a few clauses. I will start with Clause 3. I beg to disagree with my brother, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., when he says we are forming yet another council. This is such a critical area. If you do not have the council which is provided for in this law, the amount of abuse and loss that will be incurred by the farmers who would have been given receipts by warehouse operators will be unimaginable. I, therefore, insist from point number one that the Mover of the Motion, without us having to move him, should quickly ensure that this Bill is aligned with the new Constitution. The new Constitution has taken the entire function of agriculture to the counties. Why are we still in this Act, attempting to form a council that will be controlled by the national Government? Just look at it: Clause 3(a) Principal Secretary responsible for matters related to agriculture – national Government; 3(b) Principal Secretary for the time being responsible for matters related to finance – national Government; d) Director of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries Authority (AFFA) or his representative, again, from the national Government. This is failure to acknowledge the fact that agriculture is fully devolved. I would not like to deny the national Government an opportunity to play a critical role in this. However, I invite the Mover to consider aligning it in this manner; that, Clause3 (f), (g), (h) and (i) be maintained but be changed so that in (c) where you have one person nominated by the Council of Governors (CoG) it stands but then, provide that the person nominated by the Financial Sectors and Regulators Forum, (f) and (g), the person nominated by the Kenya Farmers Association (KFA) and (h), the person nominated by the Kenya Members of the East African Growing Council and (i), the person nominated by the Consumer Federation of Kenya be nominated but be appointed by the CoG; so that The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, for the representation of the financial sector, you are trying to standardize. Do you not think that the National Treasury will be the appointing authority?
Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I concur with you but I was just worried that we are bloating this council with the national Government. I have indicated the areas but this is subject to debate. I am just provoking the thinking of the Mover. What you have said is debatable. I would agree with you if that was the best way to go. Corruption at the national Government is just as unacceptable as corruption at the county government. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, were the Mover of the Motion to concur with me, then I would be moving that Clause 4 be amended to add that the person appointed as a member of the council should be appointed by the CoG or the Cabinet Secretary. I quickly move to Clause 4 on the functions of the council. They are enumerated but my attention is drawn to (i) and (j). (i) which says that the council may suspend operations of warehouse operators, inspectors, waiters or graders operating under the Act for failure to comply with any provision of this Act; nothing could be more important. You will take your good grains to warehouse “X” then the graders then just decide to grade your grain at a low grade and then make profit from the high grade that you delivered. So, it should then create an opportunity for the person with the receipt to have a chance to complain to the council that whereas I supplied first class grade, look, these people, led by the warehouse operator where I received the receipt, are now grading my grain as second or third grade.
Maybe just to enhance your contribution, this receipt is a document that you will use as collateral or to negotiate with the bank. In fact, the farmer will takes the receipt to the bank and maybe paid at 60 per cent. Therefore, whoever will be buying, will just go to the bank again, pay and the farmer will be given the balance. So, is there any loophole where maybe some people can get another receipt? I thought it is just one receipt according to this Bill.
Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. That is true to the best of intentions. However, if you ask Sen. Omondi and I, who come from the sugar industry, we can confirm to you that with the best of intentions, the miller sends his tractors to collect cane, and it is harvested with the best of intentions. However, when it reaches the weigh bridge, the tonnage that is then announced, the poor farmer who in some instances might be illiterate, is completely shortchanged. Do not forget that some of these farmers might not be as highly educated. Therefore, when he is given his receipt, he may not know that inside it, his produce has been graded poorly. It is only when he wants to exchange it as Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. said as collateral in the bank to get money, he is told you your receipt shows you delivered 100 tonnes of maize, but unfortunately, we cannot give you the amount of money that you want because according to the credit in the receipt, it is third grade.” Then, the farmer will find that he cannot get a loan of Kshs2million, as soon as possible using it where he expected that amount based on the tonnage that is in the store. This is because they are being told: “No, you can only get Kshs500,000 because your grade is low.” The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for allowing me to contribute to this Bill. Looking at the memorandum and objects of reason, it explains the purpose for this Bill, I find as if we are trying to assist people, but we are on the periphery. We were elected by the people of this country to deliver. The biggest problem here like my friend, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, was talking about – he talks so well and all Senators here talk so well as if they are talking to people who do not belong to this country – is that there is nothing special that we are talking here that is unknown. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Senator, you requested to talk. That is why I gave you the chance. I did not force you.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, pardon.
You are saying that sometimes you prefer not to talk, but you requested to talk.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have my conviction about political life. When you keep on nagging, telling people what they need to do and they know it, then you become a little bit troubled. You then become revolutionary and that is something that some of us cannot do. We can continue to plead with people like Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale by speaking some of the things that we cannot speak. There is a Bill that was sponsored by Sen. Kittony, which was passed. If you look at that Bill and this system of receipt, you will wonder why we are running away from the facts. The fact remains that the current National Cereals and Produce Board needs to be abolished and a new one created in line with the current thinking and international standards of storing food. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this has been done in many countries, including India, as mentioned by a Member. They suspended their budget for the sake of food for five years. They were not doing that without a proper system. However, in this country, in a system or a proposed board like this one, some people somewhere know what they want to do. It is most unfortunate. If they were genuinely doing it for the sake of the country, people would understand. Look at the corruption involved in the distribution of seeds. Places like Laikipia and few other areas are totally affected because whenever people go to collect the so-called free seeds by the Government, they find the people in charge of the stores selling them. Until the day corruption is minimised to at least 20 per cent then--- Keep your corruption at 20 per cent and eat what you want.
Sen. (Dr.) G.G. Kariuki, you are saying that it should be reduced to 20 per cent. At what percentage are you trying to suggest it is?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am talking about 20 per cent. People should not eat more than they can give.
We should not tolerate corruption at all, not even at 20 per cent.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I agree we should never tolerate it. However, what is managing us today is corruption. Let us all be ready to fight it. Take the case of the farmers in your constituency. The small-scale farmers will continue to suffer because whenever they harvest, all that harvest goes to few people who call themselves middlemen. They will buy a bag of maize at Kshs1, 800 because they know that the farmers do not have facilities to store their produce or reach the other buyers. I hope that we will come back to the next Parliament as people who understand the problem and can be trusted. If the receipt system is started now in my county where there is a lot of maize, people will still suffer. These receipts will come out and everybody will expect it to go on. In the old days, there were no special people to trace a thief. A thief was traceable by The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Bill that provides a good system for farmers. As we deliberate on this issue, we know the categories of farmers that we have. We have large-scale and small-scale farmers. I wish to speak on behalf of the horticultural and dairy farmers. With regard to dairy farmers, we need to have another element of value addition and marketing in this Bill. If we discuss about the cereals alone, what will happen to the dairy farmers and small-scale farmers who grow carrots, cabbages and sukumaw iki . Whenever we come up with a Bill like this one, it should cover all categories of farmers. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am happy about this Bill, except that it excludes some farmers. I do not know if it will be possible to amend it to include the elements that I have mentioned. We could as well come up with another Bill to deal with marketing or value addition. We all know that we have the dairy farmers. Since most dairy farmers do not have storage facilities, we should think of value addition and marketing. With those few remarks, I beg to support.
I now call upon the Senate Majority Leader to reply. I would have wished to contribute to this Bill, but since my fellow Members of the Speaker’s Panel are not in the House, I cannot do so.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I sympathise with your situation, but sometimes we have to make sacrifices in the line of duty. I wish to thank the Members who have supported this Bill. As I said in my remarks while moving the Bill, this Bill is a game-changer in terms of addressing the perennial famine problem. It will help the farmers to access facilities where they can store their produce. These facilities will be inspected and have the necessary equipment to make sure that the storage is done in accordance with health as well as vital sanitary standards; where pests, rodents and insects that are harmful to agricultural produce are addressed. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first, this Bill addresses the bigger question of storage for commodities and not just agricultural commodities. Nothing prevents the storage of other things including minerals. The Bill talks about agricultural produce, but nothing prevents a broader idea of warehousing, even if it means amending this Bill. Storage is a critical thing that can help us complete the production chain that is currently broken, because people do not have a place to store their things. Second, there have been efforts in the past by the public sector to provide warehousing for commodities. Many Kenyans are still nostalgic about the days of the Kenya National Trading Corporation (KNTC) which used to store sugar, flour and other commodities to ensure that the rules of market and supply do not distort the market conditions. There was the Kenya Farmer’s Association (KFA) which had many warehouses across the country, which are lying idle in many counties today. The KFA The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Well done, Senate Majority Leader. This is one of the most innovative Bills that will make our youth get jobs and our farmers to become rich. I believe that with the genius in you, any amendment will make it better. I defer the putting of the question, as requested by the Senate Majority Leader.
Next Order! THE LOCAL CONTENT BILL (SENATE BILL NO. 13 OF 2016)
Since Sen. Gideon Moi is not here, we will defer the Bill.
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Since Sen. Khaniri is also not here, so we defer the Motion.
CREATION OF AN OFFICE TO AUDIT THE BASIC EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS’ FUNDS THAT, whereas Article 53 (1) (b) of the Constitution provides that every child in Kenya has the right to free and compulsory basic education; RECOGNIZING the importance of education in the alleviation of the main challenges facing Kenya’s sovereignty identified at independence, namely; poverty, illiteracy and disease; APPRECIATING the gains made following the implementation of the free primary education program in 2003 and cognizant of the principles set out in the Basic Education Act of 2013 whose objectives include promotion and regulation of free and compulsory basic education besides providing for accreditation, registration and management of basic education institutions; The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo is also committed in another Committee. We will, therefore, defer the Motion.
INSTALLATION OF CCTV CAMERAS IN ALL POLICE STATIONS AND POLICE POSTS CONCERNED about the numerous reports of the arbitrary arrests of innocent people by the police; FURTHER CONCERNED that a large number of those arrested are allegedly locked up in police cells without being recorded either in the Occurrence Book or elsewhere; DEEPLY CONCERNED that some of the arrested people disappear without a trace and that many who are subsequently traced are found dead away from where they were known to have been locked up; ALARMED by the recent incident where three young men were locked up for hours at Syokimau Police Post without any record indicating they had been at the police post, only for them to be found days later, in another area far from the police post, having been brutally killed; APPRECIATING that the Closed Circuit Television (CCTV) system installed by the Government in Nairobi has helped a lot in criminal investigations; NOW THEREFORE, the Senate calls upon the National Government to- (a) install CCTV cameras in all police stations and police posts in order to record each and every person going in and out of the station; (b) have the CCTV system designed in such a way that it is capable of capturing the Occurrence Book entries every twelve hours; and, (c) ensure the CCTV system is connected to a central depository in order to minimize chances of subsequent tampering. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki is also committed in another Committee. We will defer the Motion.
INQUIRY INTO THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE NATIONAL SPECIAL NEEDS EDUCATION POLICY FRAMEWORK AWARE that Article 43 (1) (f) of the Constitution of Kenya provides that every person has the right to education and that Article 53 (1) (b) of the Constitution provides that every child has the right to free and compulsory basic education; COGNIZANT that Article 54 (1) (b) of the Constitution provides that a person with any disability is entitled to access educational institutions and facilities for persons with disabilities that are integrated into society to the extent compatible with the interests of the person; RECOGNIZING that education in Kenya is a shared function of both the county and national governments; CONCERNED that while significant gains have been made under the Free Education Programme introduced in the year 2003, access and participation of children with special needs is generally low across the country and their needs have not been specifically addressed; NOW THEREFORE the Senate directs the Standing Committee on Education to inquire into the performance of the Ministry of Education, Science and Technology in the implementation of the policy statements and strategies made in the National Special Needs Education Policy Framework, 2009 and report back to the Senate within three months.
This is my Motion and since the Standing Orders cannot allow me to move it, we will defer it.
When we began there was re-arrangement of the Order Paper because we expected to have the requisite numbers to dispose of Order Nos.8, 9 and 10. Since we do not have the requisite numbers, we will also defer them.
Hon. Senators, there being no other business, the Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday 17th November, 2016, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 5.10 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate