Order, Members! I have a Communication to make on the self-assessment exercise to evaluate the level of gender sensitivity of the Parliament of the Republic of Kenya. Hon. Senators, the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) sent an expert mission to Kenya from 12th to 17th July, 2015, to offer advice on the way forward in implementing the constitutional requirement of the two-thirds gender rule upon a request by the Parliament of Kenya. Following consultative meetings with Members of Parliament of both Houses, the Executive, constitutional commissions and civil society organizations, the expert mission forwarded its report to Parliament on 23rd July, 2015. The report contains suggestions on how to meet the two-thirds gender rule based on the discussions that were held and further identifies the following three additional areas of collaboration between the Parliament of Kenya and IPU:- (a) Building the capacity of women parliamentarians. (b) Evaluation of the level of gender sensitivity of the Parliament of Kenya through the conduct of a self-assessment exercise. (c) Organizing a parliamentary debate on women’s participation. Hon. Senators, as a follow up on the suggested areas of collaboration, the IPU on 3rd October, 2016 wrote to the Speakers of the Senate and the National Assembly requesting to collaborate with the Parliament of Kenya in a self-assessment exercise on the level of gender sensitivity in the Parliament of Kenya; a request which was granted. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Sen. Mositet!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate, today, Tuesday, 29th November, 2016. Report of the Joint Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget and the Sessional Committee on Devolved Government on a Petition by some Members of the Kisumu County Assembly on the alleged corruption and gross mismanagement by the Kisumu County Executive.

Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay on the table a Report of the Senate Sessional Committee on County Public Accounts and Investments on the disorderly conduct of Hon. Mwangi wa Iria, the Governor of Murang’a County.

Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to move the following Motion:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order, Senator! You cannot move what you have not given notice of.

My apologies, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, the Senate adopts a Report of the Senate Sessional Committee on County Public Accounts and Investments(CPAIC) on the disorderly conduct of Hon. Mwangi wa Iria, the Governor of Murang’a County.

Order, Members! Are there any requests for Statements, if not, we can proceed to Statements to be issued. STATUS OF THE NORTHERN COLLECTOR TUNNEL PROJECT IN MURANG’A COUNTY I do not see the Member who is supposed to issue it. The Statement is dropped.

HYACINTH MENACE IN LAKE VICTORIA I do not see the Member who is supposed to issue it. The Statement is dropped.

Next Statement, Chairperson for the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare. COLLAPSE OF A SECTION OF BUKHUNGU STADIUM IN KAKAMEGA COUNTY

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have just received a response but it is not adequate. I have given my colleague, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, the copies of what I have received. The bottom line is that a substantive answer has not come from the Governor of Kakamega County. He has not responded and we have asked that we be given up to 12th December, 2016 – I do not know whether we shall be sitting at that time but that is the correspondence so far to enable us get a substantive answer to the question that was asked by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, how I wish you had a copy of what the Chairman is calling a response. It is not. He is referring to a letter---

Order, Senator! If the Chairman admits that it is not a response, you think it is not, why would you want the Speaker to have a copy of such? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wanted to make you angry.

My concern is that there is a letter from the procurement section and another one form the Ministry of Sports, Culture and Arts. Both of them do not help the Senate to come to the bottom of my concern. Therefore, I am worried that as we go for Christmas Recess, nothing will move. I want to request you to direct that the answer comes on Thursday this week.

Chairman.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am surprised that my colleague says there is no response at all. We have a response from the Ministry of Sports, Culture and Arts by the Cabinet Secretary (CS) which tells us that with regards to the collapse of this construction of the stadium in Kakamega, that response can only be obtained from the Office of the Governor of Kakamega.I thought that is what I have given him as communication. It is in that regard that the procurement department wrote that they are seeking up to 12th December, 2016 to respond. These are the communications---

Order, Chairman! When you deal with responses, you deal with the substance and not the form, not the correspondence and not the procedure of obtaining information. So, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is right when he says there is no response. It is just as good as there is nothing. So, get the substantive response in the way we understand it on Thursday this week. Let us move to Statement (d)! Where is the Chairperson?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sorry I do not have the statement. I was expecting to get it this afternoon as I was told by the Clerk Assistant but up to now, it has not reached me.

Chairman, at least something is on the works, we can trust that before the end of the Order, you might get it or not later than tomorrow. So, the statement will appear on the Order Paper tomorrow afternoon.

That is the end statement hour. What is it, Sen. Wangari?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was expecting two statements that you had directed to be brought today. First, is on the hiring of officials for ministry of health in the counties. Secondly, is that one that was to be issued by the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights Chairperson on the issue of Malewa West Ward in Gilgil The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Is the Chairperson, Health Committee there? ONGOING RECRUITMENT OF PERSONNEL BY THE MINISTRY OF HEALTH

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I had given a detailed answer to Sen. Wangari but this is the response:- The Fourth Schedule, Articles 185 (2), 186 (1) and 187 (2) outlines the distribution of functions between the national and county governments. The Ministry of Health has indicated that they recruit on the basis of delegated authority by the Public Service Commission. However, Article 234 (3) (d) prohibits the Public Service Commission from recruiting for the county governments while Article 235 assigns the responsibility to the county governments. The Ministry is basing its recruitment on the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution which allows the national Government to provide capacity building and technical assistance to the counties. This is done through consultation and co-operation. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Committee is in the receipt of communication from the Council of Governors (CoG) and their position is that the county governmentsenjoy human resource recruitment autonomy and the national Government cannot unilaterally without any consultation recruit staff. It is, therefore, the Committee’s opinion that consultations did not take place at all for those recruitments that have been done so far. The Ministry of Health insists that the consultation process took place. However, as stated above according to the CoG, no such consultations took place. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Ministry of Health has indicated that the ongoing recruitment of health personnel will continue to engage the counties. It is the opinion of the Committee that the process needs to be stopped. In terms of remuneration by the Ministry, it states that it will seek assurance from the counties affected that they will absorb the recruited staff. We intend to invite the CS and the Principal Secretary (PS) of Health to discuss this issue further. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chair has mixed up the response from the Ministry and the opinion of the Committee. Looking at this response, it is not as detailed as the Chair says. In fact, on the issue where I sought to know whether it is the mandate of the national Government to recruit staff for the county governments, the Ministry says that they did so through consultation and co-operation. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the CoGs have already protested this move. I do not know who they consulted. The Chair should clarify whether ittook place as it is under Article 189 of the Constitution and the burden of absorbing these staff. If you look at the response, in the fifth issue where we asked that the arrangement for deployment and remuneration be cleared, the Ministry says they will seek an assurance from the counties affected that they will absorb recruited officers at the end of the contract period. This burden that is being brought to the county government is already a problem of health and personnel in the counties. So, the Ministry went ahead to recruit for a contract and after it expires, it expects the counties to absorb them without knowing The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Sen. Wetangula!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a serious matter and I thank Sen. Wangari for bringing it. Health is a devolved function and being so, the purview of recruiting staff for devolved units of health rests with the county governments, nothing less. That is why you see every day in the counties strikes by medical staff for non-payment, inadequate payment and all manner of things. Now, what the Chairman has told us – and I thank him for his candor – that the Ministry of Health at the headquarters is recruiting staff for counties alleging delegation and consultation. He has told us that the counties have disputed that there has been neither delegation nor consultation. This is an illegality, annulity, unconstitutionality and one of the many processes of undermining devolution. Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Chairman tell us – I know he has already indicated that it ought to stop – at the end of this session extract a direction from you as the Speaker of this House to the Ministry of Health to stop the unlawful recruitment of staff on behalf of counties where they have no delegation or consultation?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, just like the global funds on HIV/AIDS, Tuberculosis, Malaria and so forth, the national Government is hanging on that money in Nairobi. Now, they are going further by attempting to recruit staff for our governors. Could the Chairman tell us when the Government is going to align the national policy on health with devolution?

Sen. Ndiema.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, you may recall that as a supplementary question, I asked the Chairman to confirm whether staff recruited by counties since 2013 have been entered into any pension scheme. Counties have been recruiting and we are not sure whether the staff they have recruited on permanent and pensionable basis are permanent and pensionable. It is inhuman to recruit staff and not provide them with any pension.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the recruitment of staff; although it appears to have been excused, it is a pretext that it is under the Public Service Commission Act. The truth of the matter is that the Health Bill that was amended in this Senate gives the powers of how the Ministry of Health in collaboration with counties would recruit staff. Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the Chairman aware of the status of the Health Bill that would give the position that he stated here? The Public Service Commission Act does not give such mandate under the new Constitution.

Sen. Sijeny.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Chairperson also clarify what became of the defunct local government officers within local hospitals? Could he also clarify what became of the defunct local government officers within the local hospitals and were they redeployed within the counties? Why do they want to employ more? They need to give us the data. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order, Sen. Sijeny! These were clarifications. Yours appears like a new one. So, if the Chairperson wishes to respond fine. If he does not, I will agree with him. Proceed, Chairperson, on those other clarifications that have been sought.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Sen. Wangari wants to know why the national Government is still recruiting for the county governments. According to the Committee’s observations, it is totally wrong and illegal. There was a gazette notice in accordance with the Constitution and the Transition Authority (TA). Through the Gazette Notice of No.116 of August 2013, health functions were transferred to the counties. Therefore, the counties took the responsibility to all that appertains to those functions. Further, provisions of Articles 6(42) and 189 of the Constitution create compulsory obligation for one level of government not to interfere with the other level in exercising these functions. In this regard, county governments enjoy human resource recruitments. As far as we are concerned, they enjoy that autonomy fully. Sen. Wetangula is very right. The Committee agrees with his sentiments. The national Government is carrying out an illegality by deploying health personnel to county governments. They are not supposed to do that according to the Constitution. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale talked about the Government not honouring the policy of devolution. Yes, they are dishonouring it. They should read the Constitution and honour it to the letter. I may not be able to comment on what Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. raised because the Health Bill is not yet law. If you remember, we amended it here and it was sent back for further negotiations. It is not yet law. Therefore, it is not binding. I am not in a position to answer Sen. Sijeny’s concerns.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. While I appreciate my Chairman’s response to the question asked by Sen. Wangari, I believe he is an honest character and he has really laid bare the response according to the Ministry of Health. We are not heading anywhere. The truth is one level of government can still---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Will you allow the distinguished Sen. Hargura to refer to the Chairman who is the Senator of Migori County as a character? Is it lack of English or deliberate assumption that we do not know English Language?

Order, Sen. Hargura! Indeed, I was astonished and perplexed to hear the distinguished Senator referring to the more distinguished Chairperson, Panelist and Doctor of Medicine as a character.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is very uncommon of me to demean a colleague. I hold a lot of respect for my Chairman and very able friend, the Senator for Migori County. It is a slip of the tongue. I apologise. I want to proceed by saying that the ultimate solution to our problem here lies in with the Chairman. In this case, he is giving us the response from the Ministry of Health. It is true one level of government can perform the function of the other with agreements and delegation. Honestly, I want to know is there such an arrangement? If not, then we will expect the Speaker to direct that the Chairman of Committee on Health gives us a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I find the answer given by the Chairman of Committee on Health contradictory because he is speaking, as Sen. Hargura said, as the Chairman and as Government. Therefore, he needs not to lament what the Government is doing is an illegality. I want him to clarify who are these doctors posted to work in the counties? Are they the ones that have been trained on a bond by the Ministry and, therefore, the Government is obligated to have them work for Government? Since these services have now been devolved, there is, probably, no alternative. What category or what type of doctors are we talking about? Normally, I know the Government bonds are paid for and they have to go and work somewhere. So, is it that situation or is there any situation where doctors actually get posted?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, that point raised by the Senator for Mandera is very important. Could the Chairman also clarify to the House if there are any doctors sent or posted to the counties by the national Government? Is the national Government responsible for their remuneration or is it the responsibility of the county governments to pay such doctors? If it is so, is it harmonized across the country, or counties will pay in accordance with the capacity and ability?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I sought an answer on the issue of pension. I sought it then, I have sought it now and I am not hearing from him.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would want to totally remove the erroneous feeling that a Chairman of a Committee will speak on behalf of a Government. I am not a mouthpiece of the Government. I am the Chairperson of the Health Committee of the Senate. I, therefore, collect and collate information in order to answer your questions as it is. It may please the Government or not. While we recognise that the national Government---

On a point of Mr. Speaker, Sir. You heard the Chairman. He needs to be very careful because when he is giving a response to a statement, he cannot at the same time contradict himself. In answering the question, he cannot stand up again and tell us that what the national Government is doing is illegal. This is because he is giving a statement on behalf of the national Government. So, it is contradictory. He needs to reconcile his position with the answer he is reading.

Order, Sen. Billow! I was about to use the word take the trouble of listening, but you do not need to take any trouble. Just enjoy the listening and you will appreciate that the Chairman has not contradicted himself at all. Proceed, Chairman.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for the protection. While we recognise that the national Government has constitutional responsibility to offer capacity building and technical assistance to the counties, this does not mandate the Ministry to unilaterally and without any form of consultation, proceed to recruit staff for the counties. That is the Committee’s position. This is the reason that we have an upheaval of strikes. In my attempt to answer Sen. Ndiema, I would like to say that the TA did not give enough guidelines on how the hitherto personnel employed by the national Government were to be absorbed by the county governments. That has raised an issue of remuneration and who takes responsibility to other remunerations such as the Pension Fund. That is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The other subsidiary issue following on this is what I learnt particularly as far as Busia County is concerned where the strike is ongoing. One of the reasons for the strikes is that the paramedical staff have not received the requisite promotions when the requisite is due. When you go to the county governments, they say it is very difficult for them to do that because files have not come from the national headquarters. So, it is very difficult to classify them on what they have done and those who deserve promotion. If that is true, we request the Government to make sure that the files of these workers are transferred to the respective county governments.

Order, Sen. Wako! You could do more with a bit of listening. It is not a debate, there were just clarifications. Order, Members! I see that Sen. Ndiema is interested. However, this is a straightforward matter. Definitely, there is a dispute between the Ministry of Health at the national level and the Council of Governors (CoGs). A Member has sought a statement to clarify on what was actually advertised. I have received in my office a complaint letter from the CoGs raising the same matter. So, I am going to direct as follows:- First, the provisions of the Constitution with regard to Sovereignty of the People says: 1 (1) All sovereign power belongs to the people of Kenya and shall be exercised only in accordance with this Constitution. (3) Sovereign power under this Constitution is delegated to the following state organs, which shall perform their functions in accordance with the Constitution- (b) the national executive and the executive structures in the county governments. Article 1(4) provides that:- “The sovereign power of the people is exercised at— ( a ) the national level; and, ( b ) the county level.” Article 6 (1) provides that:- “The territory of Kenya is divided into the counties specified in the First Schedule. Article 6(2), which the Chairman quoted, gives the modus operandi on how that relationship can operate. It provides that:- “The governments at the national and county levels are distinct and inter- dependent and shall conduct their mutual relations on the basis of consultation and cooperation.” The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

On a point of order Mr. Speaker, Sir. This has nothing to do with what you have ruled. Would the House be in order to applaud a sound and solid decision, like what you have made, by tapping on our benches rather than thumping the ground because the structure of this furniture is such that thumping does not give the effect it requires? I have seen in the Parliament of Tanzania and you saw today when you were addressing the East African Legislative Assembly (EALA), I think they have picked it from that Parliament. Members are allowed to tap their desks in approval and applause of what they think has been done right, like what you have said.

Order, Members. Sen. Wetangula, nobody is following suit, except for some sporadic responses from Sen. Haji and Sen. Boy Juma Boy. My point is that we do not need to borrow from other traditions because we already have ours. We should just proceed along those lines.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am in agreement with the Senate Minority Leader because the action of thumping discriminates me. In order to avoid discrimination in this House, I do agree with him.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to applaud your ruling on this matter. It is an urgent issue and my worry is the timeline of the Committee. It is in the public domain The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order, Sen. Wangari. My understanding from the response of the Chair was that they were already in communication with the Ministry of Health. In fact, the Committee intends to invite the Cabinet Secretary and the Principal Secretary to discuss this issue. So, they do not need any extension. I expect them to appreciate all the concerns you have raised, including the urgency of this matter. They need to stop it forthwith. I leave the Chair to determine given their communication, but not later than a week. Order, Members. On the bit by Sen. Omondi, I can give an exception to her under the circumstances, but that exemption cannot be extended to the Senate Minority Leader.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not want you to lock my Statement out from the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights on the issue I raised about the boundaries in Malewa West Ward. When young men from Kasarani go to Gilgil for recruited they are told to go to Naivasha because their identity cards read Naivasha. When they go to Naivasha, they are told to go back to Gilgil. It is an urgent issue. and I am still waiting for that Statement so that it can be settled and the opportunities can be equal to everyone.

Sen. Wangari, you may have to repeat.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was reminding you of my pending Statement from the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights on the issue of the youth from Kasarani in Malewa West Ward of Gilgil. When they go to Gilgil to be recruited into the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) and Kenya Police Service, they are told to go to Naivasha because their Identity Cards read Naivasha. When they go to Naivasha, they are told---

Order, Sen. Wangari!

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

When you are ordered, it does not mean you should respond. It is to allow me to intervene. First, you are seeking the Statement and not the content. The Chair and Vice Chair are both in the House, but let us hear from the Chair.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I must admit that I am not specifically aware of that request. Had it been made when I was here, I would have said that it is a matter for the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations that deals with registration of persons and related issues. Is it not a policy issue? The matter should be redirected to the right committee, which is, the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations and not the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. They are not asking for an The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Chairman in order to mislead this House? This matter has been pending in this House for over a month. In fact, his deputy had committed to bring a response without any of the issues that he has raised. Is he in order to take us back, when there was a commitment from the Committee to bring the Statement?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am shocked that the distinguished Senator for Busia County can rise on such a point of order. Before Sen. Wangari asked the question, she had approval from the Office of the Speaker and she demonstrated that the matter deserved to go to the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. Is he in order to want to reverse a process that was concluded over a month ago?

Order, Members. The more useful route is what Sen. Wangari just made in the intervention. The Chair of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights was not properly briefed by his Vice Chair who has been handling the matter. Yes, Vice Chair.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, unfortunately again, we still do not have this Statement. However, you will recall that I shared the progress we have made on this matter with the House. The issue raised by the Chair is exactly what I said. The Statement was directed to our Committee and we channelled to the Attorney General’s Office. However, the Attorney General’s Office informed us that the matter is within the provincial administration and registration of persons, which falls squarely within the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government. They undertook to contact them and transmit the request for the statement. As at now, we have not received it and I still seek the indulgence of the House as we pursue this. I would also request the experienced Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations to help us as we pursue this Statement. I am sure that he has better connections and discussions with the Ministry than us in the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have a pending anticipation of a Statement on the audit in the Ministry of Health that unearthed the fraud that is now being discussed publicly. I do not know if the Chairman of the Committee is available with the Statement, so that we can interrogate it.

The Senate Minority Leader, to who was that directed?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, to the Committee on Health.

Sen. (Dr.) Machage, respond to that. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have documents that I will Table on the interim audit report of the end year procurement and payments. This document was tabled in the Committee by the Cabinet Secretary on 8th November, 2016 and again, re-tabled by the internal auditor of the Ministry of Health. We have compared and the copies are the same. The Ministry of Health has informed us that the procurement documents of 2015/2016 mentioned in this interim audit report are with the investigation---

Order! That was just to find out the status first. You seem to be ready, but let us dispose the matter by Sen. Wangari. Sen. Wako, if you need assistance from your colleague, the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations, he can do so. This Statement will appear on the Order Paper tomorrow afternoon. So, between now and tomorrow, get your act together.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, kindly allow me to join you in welcoming the two delegations from Nyamira, particularly from Kakamega County. Kakamega happens to be the mother county of my own county, Vihiga, which was hived out from Kakamega County. My birth certificate and passport read Kakamega. That is where I was born. I thank the delegation for finding time and taking advantage of the programme that you initiated in trying to empower Members of County Assemblies (MCAs) to do their oversight role adequately and effectively. County assemblies are very important in devolution. We rely fully on them. They are our first line of defence to ensure that devolution works. Therefore, the programme that you started is very useful. My county, Vihiga, has embraced it fully and sent so many delegations here. I think by now, each Member of Vihiga County has been here for this training. However, let me send a strong message to the Governor for Kakamega County through the ladies and gentlemen in the Gallery. We have 47 governors in this Republic. All 46 governors have appeared before the Senate to answer questions raised by the Auditor-General. The last one was the Governor for Machakos County who was very reluctant, but was here yesterday. He appeared before the Committee and responded to the queries by the Auditor-General. The only man standing now is the Governor for Kakamega, my good friend, Hon. Oparanya. Please, take a very strong message to him that once he accepts the position of leadership and responsibility, he must be ready to be accountable to the Kakamega County Assembly and to this Senate. Tell him we are waiting for him here to come and answer questions. I wish you well.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for allowing me to join you to welcome the visiting delegations from the two counties. I also thank you for the initiative of training clerks from different counties. Last week, we had delegation from Kakamega County. I am honoured to see my county getting capacity building. I know this will empower them to deliver quality work effectively and efficiently. I wish them a fruitful stay here in Nairobi. I also thank other counties that have joined us today.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as part of the leadership of the House, I also welcome the two delegations from Nyamira and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also take this opportunity to thank the visiting delegations from Nyamira and Kakamega counties. I wish them well as they continue benchmarking. I thank them for coming in at the right time knowing that we are about to go for recess. The most important thing is what foundations we leave behind so that the next Senate and county assemblies will have a footing in what they would wish to do for their counties come 2017. I urge the MCAs to always remember that as you do your work, there are those who voted for you in a ward somewhere. At any given time, they would wish that you fight for them. Therefore, sometimes you can be with your governor, but in most occasions, you must stand with the challenges of your people. In so doing, they will respect you and know that they, indeed, voted in a leader. As you go back home, just remember to work for your people. It is important to give your people services, but not an individual.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I welcome the distinguished delegations from Kakamega and Nyamira counties. Coming from what used to be Western Province, I want to particularly welcome the distinguished delegation from Kakamega knowing the role that Kakamega has played in giving birth to Bungoma County and Bungoma County, in turn, gave birth to Busia County. So, we are like grandsons, but grandsons who have come of age and ready to lead the entire former western province. I am glad that on a number of issues, the other counties are providing leadership. I am talking about the most important function of the Senate and the county assembly as Government which is oversight. I would like to see Kakamega leading other counties, particularly in western province on the issues of oversight. As my colleagues have stated, the Governor and Speaker of Busia County have appeared before the CPAIC. The Governor, the Speaker and Busia County Assembly have appeared before this Committee. The same applies to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order, Sen. Wako! You are pursuing a very slippery path.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you.

We do not plead with people. We invite and summon.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not pleading with anybody. All I am asking is can they go and plead with the governor to come. Yes, I cannot plead, but we summon. However, I can show you somebody whom I know has the ear of the governor to come. This is exactly what I a am doing. The Governor for Machakos County was---

Sen. Wako, conclude.

The Governor for Machakos County was with us yesterday and is coming again tomorrow. He said that if he does not, he will come next week. He is now ready and has now seen that we engage in a constructive dialogue on these issues. Please, appeal to him. Otherwise, we may use our immense powers that the Speaker has talked about and just summon and arrest.

Finally, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for hosting the team from Kakamega and Nyamira counties. Just like my party leader has said, we are very proud of Nyamira County because our Senator here from that county belongs to our party. Next year, you remember your former colleague, Hon. Okioma, he will be the Governor for Nyamira County and is running on FORD-K Party. So, the future is very bright. I also welcome the team from Kakamega County. When I think of Kakamega County, I am very proud. I am the only Senator in the Republic of Kenya who is a Senator in Nairobi and his son-in-law is an MCA in Kakamega County. Mr. Osanga is my son-in-law. He has married my first born daughter. Welcome, son.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is true; you look doubtful.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I have no reason at all to doubt you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as my party leader said, yesterday, we were shocked when Gov. Mutua appeared before the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC) accompanied by the chairman and the vice chairman of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Before we move to the next order, Sen. (Dr.) Machage was to issue a Statement.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have already tabled the interim audit report as demanded by the hon. Senator. Regarding the second question, the Ministry of Health has written informing us that procurement documents of 2015/2016 Financial Year mentioned in the interim audit report are with the investigative agencies. They will provide the documents to us once they are available. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to add that the Committee met the Cabinet Secretary and Permanent Secretary of Health on 8th November, 2016 and this promise was made. They also made a promise to provide a complete audit report to us once it is completed, and it will have this information. However, I have a complete audit report by the internal auditor that was availed to us later, which I will table. The list of companies that were awarded the said tenders are:- (1) Dentmed Kenya Limited which was awarded a tender of Kshs2,992,490 (2) Life Care Medics Limited which was awarded a tender of Kshs201,011,550. (3) Rayovac Industries Limited which was awarded a tender of Kshs4,992,656. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have with me the statement that I sought and the answer that the distinguished Chairperson is reading. The two are completely unrelated. I do not know whether he is using my statement to give answers. For example, question No.1 was: “The Chairperson to state the budget of the Ministry of Health in the Financial Year 2015/2016.” The answer is: “I would like to table an interim report.” Question No.2 was: “The amounts cited in the audit report to have been pilfered or un-accounted for on the period thereof.” In the answer, he says: “The Ministry has written to us informing that the procurement documents have been taken away.” Under question No.3 I asked for the vote heads under which the money was released. In his answer, he has listed companies that were awarded tenders. This goes on and on to the end. What the Chairperson has answered is definitely unrelated to the Statement that I asked for. More importantly---

Order, Senator. How many questions did you ask?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I asked 10 questions.

Did he respond to the 10 questions? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in fact, he answered up to No.6 and stopped there.

Proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, under No.5, I asked whether the tender committee ascertained---

Order, Senator. I was trying to do a sample. Since you have done four out of six, you do not need to proceed.

Mr. Speaker, all of them are unrelated to the answers.

You have made your point.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Statement that the Chairperson is speaking to is a very topical matter in this country and of national importance on the issue of corruption real or imagined. Could the Chairperson tell us whether they were able to find answers to the following questions when they met the Ministry:- (1) Did they confirm whether the sister of the President, as reported in public domain, got a tender worth Kshs40 million, as affirmative action meant for the disabled?

Order, Senator. You need to remain relevant. This is response time; you should not generate new questions.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, could he confirm that she actually got that tender under those circumstances? (2) Could he confirm that Mr. Joseph Kinyua, the Chief of Staff of the President, also directed that Kshs400 million may be taken to county hospitals, of which Kshs200 million was taken to Laikipia County Hospital for purposes of the tender of consultancy, which is the latest name in stealing money from the Government?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as a Member of the Committee on Health, I want to inform Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. I clearly heard the Chairperson of the Committee on Health tell this House that we are still interrogating relevant people and institutions as far as this matter is concerned.

Order, Sen. Omondi. Whereas the Chair appreciates your desire to assist your Chairperson, for now, he has the Floor and not you. You can request to inform your Chairperson, so that he can allow you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I appreciate the concern of Sen. Wetangula that the answer may not have been done in the chronological order as he desired in his request. Most of those answers are found in several documents, some of which I have already tabled and I am yet to table others. All said and done, if he so wishes that I answer them in that chronology, I beg to be given that opportunity to do it the way he wants. Regarding Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale’s question, I have clearly indicated in this House that I am yet to receive a report from the Registrar of Societies on the particulars of the individuals who own these companies. I beg for his patience. I will avail the information when it is available. I am not aware of the names he has mentioned.

Order, Members. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has raised secondary issues that are new. Let us deal with the old issues which were raised by Sen. Wetangula. Sen. Wetangula has made it abundantly clear that the Chairperson did not The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. According to the Statement that was demanded, the question under bullet No.4 was in regard to the companies that were awarded the tenders and the directors thereof. Therefore, he cannot come and give the impression that these are secondary issues. He needed to come to this House with an answer to that. We want to know the owners of this company.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! I agree. He is not then one who said it is secondary. I am the one who said I am also disadvantaged. I do not have copies of the Statement sought and the response to the statement. The manner in which you raised the issues yourself, you did not connect the previous ones as you have done now. Therefore, they are very legitimate. However, the Chairperson is not ready to prosecute the matter. Therefore, Chairperson, you can bring the response on Thursday. He still needs some information from the Registrar of Companies. What is it, Sen. Wetangula?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, unfortunately, I will not be around on Thursday. I request that the answer be brought tomorrow.

The Statement will be on the Order Paper tomorrow afternoon.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, while I note the urgency of the matter by Sen. Wetangula as well as your ruling, it will be difficult for me to accept what I may not achieve by tomorrow afternoon. I seek you order that I bring the answer on Thursday. This is the property of the House. If Sen. Wetangula will not be in the House on Thursday, he has the capacity to appoint someone to speak on his behalf in the House. I will answer to the House.

What is it, Sen. Wetangula? Members, we need to make progress.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is preposterous. When I requested for this Statement, you directed that it be brought in two weeks. This was on 1st November, 2016. We are now on 29th November, 2016. Asking the Chairperson to bring the answer tomorrow is asking for too much. In fact, he should be feeling your wrath for the inordinate delay in bringing the answer after four weeks instead of two weeks as directed. I request that the answer be brought tomorrow. If the disjointed manner in which he has framed the answer is the issue, we can go and restructure and recast it so that we interrogate this matter fully.

What is it, Sen. Khaniri?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Did you hear the Senator for Bungoma say that what the Chairperson said was preposterous? My understanding of preposterous is utterly foolish, senseless, absurd, lack of common sense. Is he in order? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order, Sen. Khaniri. Can you confirm that that is the only meaning of that word?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to confirm that, indeed, the word preposterous has got only one meaning. It means completely contrary to nature, reason or common sense, absurd, senseless or utterly foolish.

Sen. Wetangula!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, what the distinguished Senators for Vihiga and Kakamega Counties are not telling the House is that the word preposterous means any one of those that they are reading, not all of them. I had absolutely no reason to make reference to Sen. (Dr.) Machage as utterly foolish. I used the word preposterous to mean outrageous. In the Oxford English Dictionary, outrageous is also included in the description of preposterous.

What is it Sen. (Dr.) Machage?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. Wetangula is not only the Senate Minority Leader in this House, but also one of the principals of my political coalition. This is not the first time he has exhibited this kind of character by using lots of words to insult Members in this House. Would I be in order to demand that Sen. Wetangula explains what he meant? Secondly, he should profusely apologize to me and to my political party and withdraw the remarks.

On a point of Order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Senate Minority Leader in order to use un-parliamentary words that are demeaning Members of this House?

Order Members! If the Senate Minority Leader in the House has used an unparliamentary word, he is completely out of order. However, we are using words. The only word that has been challenged here is the word preposterous. The only two submissions I received are from people who are reading from some source that is highly suspect. They never quoted an authority by the way. Therefore, it is not authoritative, thus I cannot admit. My understanding of the word preposterous is along the lines the Senate Minority Leader has explained. It is in terms of outrageous. That is very parliamentary. It does not demean the honourable Chairperson whom all of you know his capabilities and competences which do not need repeating. Therefore, I will give this one more chance to examine and determine the veracity of all those accusations. I will come back to the House on Thursday to confirm.

On a point of order, Speaker, Sir. Sen. Wetangula has confirmed to this House that he will not be available on Thursday. Therefore, he will not be in a position to receive your wrath. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order! You are shooting yourself on your foot. You had already discounted that particular bit about Sen. Wetangula’s absence or presence on Thursday. You actually suggested to him to appoint a representative. All of us have been sitting in this Plenary this afternoon. The Senate Minority Leader confirmed that his deputy party leader will be available and therefore, there will be no vacuum. He did not tell us that both of them will be away. The discussions were on the lines of principals and co-principals and parties, thus very appropriate. I will hold you responsible to your own assertions. In any case, judgments and rulings are different. I can still make a determination on Thursday and mete the punishment another day. Order, Members! According to Standing Order No. 31, I will allow the Majority Leader to give notice of a Procedural Motion.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion. WHEREAS, the Parliamentary Service (Senate Monitoring and Evaluation) (Procedure for Management for Funds) Regulations, 2016 were published on 27th September, 2016 and tabled in the Senate and the National Assembly on 4th and 6th, October, 2016, respectively; AWARE, that the Sessional Committee on Delegated Legislation of the Senate considered the said regulations resolved that they be acceded to and pursuant to Standing Order No. 214 (4) (a) of the Senate Standing Orders conveyed the said decision to the Parliamentary Service Commission; WHEREAS, the National Assembly considered the said regulations and pursuant to the provisions of Sections 18 and 19 of the Statutory Instruments Act, 2013 annulled the Regulations entirely; FURTHER WHEREAS, the National Assembly sent a Message to the Senate seeking concurrence to the resolution; NOW THEREFORE, pursuant to Standing Order Nos. 215 (3) (b) and 216, the Senate resolves to establish a Joint Committee comprising of the following Senators:- 1. Sen. Kiraitu Murungi, 2. Sen. Abdirahman Hassan, 3. Sen. Beatrice Elachi, 4. Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki Karue, 5. Sen. (Dr.) Agnes Zani, 6. Sen. Billow Kerrow, 7. Sen. Stephen Sang, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Proceed with the Motion.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to move the following Motion. WHEREAS, the Parliamentary Service (Senate Monitoring and Evaluation)(Procedure for Management for Funds) Regulations, 2016 were published on 27th September, 2016 and tabled in the Senate and the National Assembly on 4th and 6th, October, 2016, respectively; AWARE, that the Sessional Committee on Delegated Legislation of the Senate considered the said regulations resolved that they be acceded to and pursuant to Standing Order No. 214 (4) (a) of the Senate Standing Orders conveyed the said decision to the Parliamentary Service Commission; WHEREAS, the National Assembly considered the said regulations and pursuant to the provisions of Sections 18 and 19 of the Statutory Instruments Act, 2013 annulled the regulations entirely; FURTHER WHEREAS, the National Assembly sent a message to the Senate seeking concurrence to the resolution; NOW THEREFORE, pursuant to Standing Order Nos. 215 (3) (b) and 216, the Senate resolves to establish a Joint Committee comprising of the following Senators:- 1. Sen. Kiraitu Murungi, 2. Sen. Abdirahman Hassan, 3. Sen. Beatrice Elachi, 4. Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki Karue, 5. Sen. (Dr.) Agnes Zani, 6. Sen. Billow Kerrow, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Proceed.

What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a new one. What is the current status of the House?

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! You have been around and you will recall one time when one of our former Speakers was sitting at the Committee of the Whole House on the constitutional debate. He took a five minutes break. You were here with me. So, there is nothing new. What is it, Sen. Obure? In any case, when it is a request by the Majority Leader to consult his counterpart, it can only be for the good of the House. Proceed, Sen. Obure.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is not a good reflection for the House to be left in abeyance. We know they may have been consulting for the good of the House but could our two leaders be requested to do these consultations earlier rather than hold us in suspense?

So ordered. That is a good contribution, Sen. Obure. I hope the leaders are listening.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Would I be in order to congratulate the two leaders for being so wise in such a situation that they need a mutual consultation? Would I be in order to also encourage that behavior?

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Machage! I am inclined to agree with you except that I am waiting for the outcome of the consultations.

Proceed, Majority Leader. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for indulging me. On behalf of the Minority Leader and I, I want to appreciate your indulgence. I know this is not ordinary. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Members for being patient. The reason why this interruption happened – it was not deliberate – is because the Leader of Minority noted something that I had not noted about this Motion and we did not want it to suffer any setback. In particularly, Members are aware of the background of this matter and its life before us. Last week, we got a communication from the Chair which sadly communicated to us that the “Lower House” had maliciously and illegally annulled the Regulations that the Senate Committee on Delegated Legislation had recommended regarding the oversight funds. Mr. Speaker, Sir, As a result of that, it is important for us to carry this matter forward. What the Senate Minority Leader brought out was about the balance and the membership that there were a lot more Members from the Jubilee side although I have not counted. I have actually taken his word. They are ten from Jubilee side and five from the Opposition. However, I want to assure the House that the matter was done administratively than by the two of us. That is something that we can let go because of the greater good. I want to thank the Senate Minority Leader for his magnanimity as it was not intentionally done by me or any other person. When drafting this Motion, a lot of attention was given to Members who have been involved in the fight for these funds and that is how the party balancing was lost. The resolve of this House, hon. Members, to stamp our authority on this matter is an equivocal. I do not think it should be distracted by something that has happened in this nature. Once more, I appreciate the Senate Minority Leader’s magnanimity and I want to assure him every Member who has been proposed here has a history with this matter, not that the rest of us do not have a history. However, I want to urge those who are lucky to be nominated in this Committee to put their best feet forward to make sure that we resolve this matter with finality. I am tired of lamenting here every other time about the kind of sabotage we have seen.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The House has heard the apology by the Senate Majority Leader on the composition. Whereas he has given him, we are now setting precedent. It might very well in future come to pass that this would be a reference that a Special Committee of the House can have such a skewed membership where the opposition has five and Government has got 10 members. I do not see any difficulty, if we must maintain our traditions, for him, in his own motion because the rules permit him, if he could change two names and ask for replacement from the opposition side, so that we do not move away from Standing Order No.1 (2).

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On several occasions in this House, we have had Motions being moved in amended version. These are serious issues because this is a matter that we need to move in a bipartisan manner. Since there are issues, we request the Senate Majority Leader to move this Motion in an amended version and ensure that all of us are reading from the same page. I know the battle ahead of us on this particular matter is very huge. If we have issues with the composition we are unlikely to make headway in terms of the other challenge ahead of us. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order, Members! To respond to what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale stated is that there is no precedent being set in terms of skewed distribution along the political parties as long as that has been undertaken with the concurrence of the parties. I will tell you this because Sen (Dr.)Khalwale has been a beneficiary of such concurrence. Hon. Members, I am only giving you observations that are factual. So, what you are affirming here is the correct one in terms of principle. However, once there is a political agreement, they can always decide what to do. The other route would have been that, of course, the Motion gets amended. However, this particular Motion is not subject to individual amendments. This is a Motion where you have to deal in terms of the whole; you either accept the list or reject it. So, what we have suggested to the Majority Leader is now to move the Motion in an amended version ab initio .

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to move the following in an amended form. WHEREAS, the Parliamentary Service (Senate Monitoring and Evaluation)(Procedure for Management for Funds) Regulations, 2016 were published on 27th September, 2016 and tabled in the Senate and the National Assembly on 4th and 6th, October, 2016, respectively; AWARE, that the Sessional Committee on Delegated Legislation of the Senate considered the said regulations resolved that they be acceded to and pursuant to Standing Order No. 214 (4) (a) of the Senate Standing Orders conveyed the said decision to the Parliamentary Service Commission; WHEREAS, the National Assembly considered the said regulations and pursuant to the provisions of Sections 18 and 19 of the Statutory Instruments Act, 2013 annulled the regulations entirely; FURTHER WHEREAS, the National Assembly sent a message to the Senate seeking concurrence to the resolution; NOW THEREFORE, pursuant to Standing Order Nos. 215 (3) (b) and 216, the Senate resolves to establish a Joint Committee comprising of the following Senators:- 1. Sen. Kiraitu Murungi 2. Sen. Abdirahman Hassan 3. Sen. Beatrice Elachi 4. Sen. Muriuki Karue 5. Sen. (Dr.) Agnes Zani 6. Sen. Billow Kerrow 7. Sen. Stephen Sang 8. Sen. (Prof.) John Lonyangapuo 9. Sen. Peter ole Mositet 10. Sen. Judith Sijeny The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I second the Motion. Allow me to thank you for being soft on us and allowing us to consult even in the process of proceedings. That is the way to go, so that we can make progress. Allow me too to thank the Senate Majority Leader for his humility in accepting whenever he finds that the step taken is not the right one. With that humility that he continuously displays in this House - and I dare say I cannot say the same of his deputy- we are able to make progress.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Senate Minority Leader in order to try and create a wedge between the Senate Majority Leader and his deputy, when we know they read from the same script? In fact, the Senate Majority Leader has trained his deputy properly and inculcated all the qualities that the Senate Majority Leader has. Is he in order to create a wedge between the Senate Majority Leader and his deputy, when we have always respected him and know that he reads from the same script with his Senate Deputy Minority Leader?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I stand under Standing Order No. 90 (3). Is the Senate Minority Leader in order to refer to a Senator in this House in a derogatory manner? We all know who Senate Deputy Majority Leader is.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not understand Sen. Sang and Sen. (Dr.) Machage. How does my saying that the Senate Majority Leader has displayed great humility and that I cannot say the same of his deputy drive a wedge between them? This is my perception, understanding and appreciation of the two gentlemen.

Order, Senators! First, this debate should be concluded because it is an agreed position. Secondly, Sen. (Dr.) Machage referred to Standing Order No. 90 (3) which provides that:- “It shall be out order to use offensive or insulting language whether in respect of Senators or other persons.” I do not understand how relativity can be offensive. When we talk of ‘greater,’ the next position is still great. Sen. Sang, by your own admission the instructor and the student cannot be the same.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for that display of enormous wisdom. I second the Motion in an amended form. The amendment is that at No.11 we are putting Sen. Henry Tiole Ndiema, the Senator for Trans Nzoia. At No.15, we are putting the name of the distinguished Senator for Kisii, Sen. Christopher Obure, in place of Sen. Sonko. This is a matter that we have a common position on and I do not want to belabour too much. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Where is “elsewhere”?

State House, if you want to hear.

This list and our colleagues who have been given the opportunity to serve, I urge you that you all; Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki, you are the doyen of devolution and the father of the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) that has now been bastardised into a different thing. I urge all the Members because nobody can compromise Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, Sen. Obure, Sen. Murungi, Sen. Abdirahman or anybody, go and represent this House with all the capacity that you have, to come up with a solution that will take us to the next level. We are sick and tired of this ping pong. These cock fights are not helpful. In fact, we look bad in the eyes of the public constantly squabbling and others call it “sibling rivalry”. We have absolutely no rivalry with the “lower” House. The “lower” House is a subordinate to the “upper” House and the “upper” House ought to be a House of review for the “lower” House. So, where is the rivalry? We pursue and discharge different constitutional mandates. With those few remarks, I beg to second. …. (Words expunged at the Order of the Hon. Speaker)

Hon. Members, the last words by The Senate Minority Leader should be expunged from the HANSARD because they are irrelevant to seconding this Motion.

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Hon. Senators, this is to notify you that the Second High Level Meeting (HLM2) of the Global Partnership towards inclusive and accelerated implementation of the 2030 Agenda is taking place in Nairobi, Kenya, since Monday 28th November and is scheduled to end on 1st December, 2016. The Global Partnership for Effective Development Co-operation (GPEDC) is an inclusive multi-stakeholder partnership and brings together the full range of development factors to ensure that finance, knowledge and policy have maximum impact on development results. Through multi-stakeholder platform, the global partnership provides practical support and guidance and shares knowledge to boost development impact with a strong country focus to implement internationally agreed effectiveness principles at country level. Hon. Senators, the global partnership tracks progress in the implementation of Busan commitments for more effective development co-operation through its monitoring framework, comprising a set of ten indicators which focus on strengthening, developing country institutions, increasing transparency and predictability of development co- operation and enhancing gender equality as well as supporting greater involvement of the civil society, parliaments and private sector in development efforts. The monitoring framework is currently being refined to fully reflect the 2030 Agenda and will contribute to the review of targets for Sustainable Development Goals (SGDs) Nos.5 and 17 and implementation of the financing for development agreements. The HLM2 aims to amplify the positive impact of development co-operation over the next 15 years. Hon Senators, to strengthen the voice of parliaments at the HLM2, the Parliament of Kenya, the Inter-parliamentary Union (IPU) and the Association of European Parliamentarians with Africa (AWEPA) have organized a parliamentary forum today, 29th November, 2016. This meeting is expected to adopt a parliamentary statement to be shared at the HLM2 that will build on the conclusions of a similar forum during the first HLM. The Speaker of the Senate had the opportunity to grace the official opening of the session this morning at the Kenya International Convention Centre (KICC), where the Parliament of Kenya was also ably represented. I want to sincerely thank and commend the Senators and Members of the National Assembly who participated at the forum. I thank you. Proceed, Sen. Mugo.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to contribute to this Motion, which I support fully. It is unfortunate that matters have come to this. I believe in the devolved governments. Senators have a key role to play in oversighting the counties, so that they can be accountable and make sure that the programmes carried out by the counties have the mandate of the people. I congratulate the Members who have been nominated to serve in this Committee. I encourage them to put more effort to reverse this very unfortunate situation. I would like to assure this House, without any fear of contradiction, that the Parliamentary Service Commission fully supports this fund. When we heard the news that the “Lower House” had annulled the regulations, every commissioner, including the ones from the “Lower House” was angry and disappointed. All commissioners agreed that Senators have a critical role to play in over sighting the counties. As a Commission, we had identified where the funds would come from. We also insisted that the money should be properly utilised because the term of the Senators is coming to an end. I encourage those who will speak for this House to speak with vigour and authority, knowing that they have the full support of the Parliamentary Service Commission. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, some of the reasons that were given to the commissioners did not carry any weight. One of the reasons was that the Nominated Members should not be given the fund. We put it to them that it is the Senators to complain about that. The “Lower House” should not complain on behalf of the Senators. I want to re-assure this House that as far as the Parliamentary Service Commission and its leadership is concerned, it is committed to this Fund. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform my brother, Sen. Wetangula, before he walks out that I fully agree with him that we need to amend the Constitution to give the Senate its true position and image. We can drive that change if we all agree this is what we want without taking partisan positions. We all want the Senate to get its real status. In fact, when we go benchmarking, people out there cannot understand how our Senate is not the Upper House. I would also like to remind my brother here and all those who were with me in the Tenth Parliament that the mistake came from the Tenth Parliament which we were also part of. Many people said many things that demeaned the status of this House. Therefore, we carry part of the blame. However, we can correct that image. Let us together change the Constitution. I support the amended Motion.

Sen. (Dr.) Machage!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will quote Article 96(3) of the Constitution. It states:- “The Senate determines the allocation of national revenue among counties, as provided in Article 217, and exercises oversight over national revenue allocated to the county governments.” It says, exercises oversight. Any function that has been prescribed by the Constitution must be funded. That is a function that was prescribed by this very The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this very important Motion. As the Senate of the Republic of Kenya, we find ourselves in a very awkward position. This is the first step. We have done many things before, but this is the first cut off point to decide whether we will go anywhere as a Senate or not. Article 186 of the Constitution created two Houses of Parliament; the Senate and the National Assembly and their functions are clearly defined. The national funds, that is the Budget of the national Government is taken to the National Assembly, deliberately so by the framers of the Constitution which we approved. The funds which are going to the counties are brought to this House for allocation. Whether it is by formula or whichever method we go by, the fact is that this House is the one which allocates funds to various counties. All over the world, wherever there is democracy, the legislature that allocates funds is the same to oversight. More so, Article 196 of the Constitution is very clear. This House is not only allocating funds to various counties but also our duty to oversight over those funds. The Senate Majority Leader and the Senate Minority Leader have left the House.

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What is it, Sen. Murkomen?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. While it is nice and good order for all Senators to sit here and listen to their colleagues, this is a House of records. The Senator for Nyandarua, Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki, who we respect as a leader in this House, should be aware that when he speaks, he speaks for record and for the nation. He should not worry who it suits and who it does not. By the way, while attending to his responsibilities in his office, the Senate Majority Leader is also listening to the debate. This House enabled his office, including your office to follow proceedings in this House. I just want to add that I came from the House of Commons and the House of Lords where Members, whether in the Chambers or not, all the precincts or the building are enabled to ensure that Senators and Members of Parliament follow the proceedings.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is good that the Deputy Majority Leader has just come from a house where those facilities are there. Whether you are the majority leading an important Motion like this or another Member is fair. Sen. Murkomen calls it good practice and it is true. Having said that, I wish to say, when this annulment – I do not know whether it was an annulment or a resolution to annul because the regulations had not come into place, the Parliamentary Service Commission had not effected them. Nonetheless, when this resolution came, if you recall, the media in this country especially two main newspapers were all over the place saying how the National Assembly was right to annul this and that the Senate has no business oversighting funds in the counties.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee, which I have had an opportunity to serve in, when we invite the governor of a particular county, say, the Governor for Kisii County, we also invite the Senator for Kisii County. The reason why we do so is that he not only contributes to the deliberations in the meeting but he should also be in a position to give an insight to the issues being raised pertaining to that county. We will expect the Senator for that county to be useful in those deliberations when matters of that county are discussed. We must facilitate him to move around, scrutinize things and interrogate things to the extent that he is able to contribute to County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC) or any other interrogative meeting which might happen with regard to the counties. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that isthe importance of the formation of this Committee and having this Fund operational however long it takes. I would like to urge Members to take this matter to its logical conclusion. If we do not have a way of the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. Before I do so, I am reminded in my mind that this is the first time I am speaking, in the last few days after two disastrous things have happened in East Africa. I want to use this opportunity to register my sympathy and send condolences to family and friends of the people of Mumias in Kakamega County who were physically injured, maimed, lost lives and raped by police forces in the name of trying to recover seven guns that had been lost at a police station. Similarly, the people of Kasese in Uganda, 62 people have been massacred under circumstances that suggest excessive use of force by security forces. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the first point I will speak to is the composition of this Committee. It could have been better. We are now coming to the end of the life of this Senate and we know each other better. I want to talk about two people in this Committee. I am glad that – allow me to call him Senator mzee – the Senator for Kisii County has made it to the list. Not many Kenyans especially those in the National Assembly know that this is a leader in this country who fast ran for Parliament in 1969 when I was nine years old. The Senator has served this country as a Minister for Finance, a Minister for Foreign Affairs, a Minister for Agriculture, a Minister for Industrialization and his last service was Minister for Roads and Public Works. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to speak about myself. I want to thank the leadership of this House for giving me the opportunity to sit on this critical Committee. I want to assure this House that I will not disappoint just in the same way I was given the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! You are both out of Order! I would like to draw you to Standing Order No.109 on irrelevance and repetition. Please, stick to the Motion. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. It does not just end there. I am very honest about some of these things. I also sleep praying that the elections for next year, because you cannot force people, that I win the election to be the Governor of Kakamega.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! I may order you to read loudly Standing Order No.109. However, I will save you on that. Please, stick to the Motion.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will not deviate from the Motion. The point I am building, and if you will bear with me, is that I am seeing something beyond my speech. I am seeing why in spite of not being the one who will be the Senator in the office in Kakamega, why I need this Senator who will oversight me in Kakamega to be so equipped.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well that is properly said. What I do not want is this House to be used for campaigns.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. So, that future that I see where the President will be CORD and the Governor of Kakamega will be Bonny Khalwale. I see a future where the Senator is capacitated enough to oversight me real-time because I will have nothing to hide. I see a future where from day one, I would have room to give life to the thoughts of young Stephen Sang, Senator for Nandi; that is I have an opportunity to invite the County Development Forum Membership. How would I ever run a huge county like Kakamega without support from the 12 Members of Parliament or without support from the 60 members of the county assembly together with the nominated ones who come to 87 MCAs? That answer is in this Fund. I want to be in that Fund together with my county secretary as secretaries to the Board and the Senator who knows it all about the money that they bring from here to sit in the Chair so that they give us the opportunity on how best we can all move our county together. Imagine in the Financial Year 2016/2017, Kakamega County is set to get a whopping Kshs11.6 billion yet you want to leave that colossal sum of money in the hands of somebody who has bragged publicly that Kakamega is not like Embu or Murang’a where MCAs can impeach him. If that is the kind of governor I would bring into our office, then let me have a serious Senator who would wake me up from that kind of slumber. I support this Fund and I have a lot of time and thanks for Sen. Kiraitu for the work they have put into this work. I will work with you. If it means we speak English, I will do it to push the cause. If it means we speak Kiswahili, I will make an attempt. If you say that I do it in Luhya, you will not believe the results, that is where I am perfect. I can engage in many tools, including the tools of bullfighting, so that we save this House. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I had an opportunity to go to the Republic of Poland led by the Speaker, Hon. Ekwee Ethuro, and there is only one word that I came home with. My takeaway was the Senate is a House of reflection. You reflect. We want to reflect on the budget, we want to reflect on the laws, we want to reflect on oversight and we want to reflect on where we want to take our children. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

He has just come!

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! He has just come but he notified me before you did.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. Sen. Kiraitu had not made a request and so I did. It should be clear that you gave me in order of merits and not on any other account. I wish to support by stating clearly that it is an important Motion. From Kshs200 billion, we are now sending more than Kshs300 to the counties. Devolution was about service delivery and that is why if you look at the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution, we gave the county governments the functions that touch on ordinary mwananchi . We are talking about Early Childhood Development (ECD), infrastructure for county roads and health care service provision. This is an agriculture economy and thus need for trade development in the counties. We gave them the mandate to deal with some of the important and crucial issues touching on ordinary mwananchi to the county governments Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the billions of money that we send to counties must be directed towards the same so that the citizens who voted for a new Constitution must benefit from it. If you look at the work of the Senate, the Constitution gives us three major roles. First, is protecting and serving the interests of the counties, sending resources to counties and oversight. This House, with regard to legislating to support devolution, has done exceptionally well. However, we have had a challenge between us and the National Assembly. We now have over 28 Bills, approved and passed by this House that are pending before the National Assembly. I have sponsored four Bills that are now at the National Assembly. They have never had an opportunity to be scheduled for processing. That is why the responsibility of enacting legislation given to this House has been undermined by the National Assembly. We hope that moving forward, the Members of the National Assembly will appreciate that we have a two-Chamber Parliament. If counties and the sub-counties are supported by various legislations, they will go along away in ensuring that their constituents get the services they require. That is with regard to legislation. This House has continuously pushed the amount of resources sent to counties from an initial of Kshs200 billion to the current Kshs300 billion and more. It means this House has risen to the occasion and ensured that our county governments are resourced. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the third function given to this House is that of oversight. It is in furtherance of that particular responsibility that this House has had time to negotiate with the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC), Members of the National Assembly and the National Treasury. It is sad that this Senate has been taken in circles. We have engaged all these institutions with utmost good faith but we got a rude shock The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Sang, do you accept to be informed?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is true we were all very disappointed when this House passed the Sang Bill establishing the County Development Boards across all the counties. That Bill was passed in the National Assembly too and assented to by the President. However, these rogue governors ganged up and went to court and blocked its implementation. I want to assure Sen. Sang that immediately I become the Governor for Meru County, whether that law is still in court or not, we will establish the Meru County Development Board and the Governor, Kiraitu Murungi, will be the secretary and the Senator for Meru, Mithika Linturi, will be the Chairperson.

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(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! I advised that this House should not be used as a floor for campaign for some dreams. I do not want to invoke the Standing Orders of irrelevance on that. Please, even if you campaign, do it just a little and not too much.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I just want to confirm with Sen. Sang whether he is a seer such that he has foreseen who will be elected Governor and Senator for Meru. To the best of our knowledge, ---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Could you frame your point of order properly; otherwise, I will rule you out of order?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, is Sen. Sang in order to foresee what may happen in Meru County next year? It would be in order to inform the House whether he has some documents or a gift in foretelling. Maybe he can also serve well to inform us in this House whether we will come back or not. We know ---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Whereas it is juicy, the only problem is that Sen. Sang was not on his feet when you raised that order. So, I rule you out of order.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank Sen. Murungi for that information. We are political human beings, especially in this Senate and we know what is happening in this country. Therefore, what Sen. Murungi has said is not far from the truth. I am sure that that will be confirmed in due course. I ask this Committee to work with the National Assembly with exceptional speed and give the final push so that we can have oversight resources given to counties. This is so that Sen. Cheruiyot for Kericho County in the Twelfth Parliament should have resources to hold his governor accountable. I beg to support.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): There is a Swahili saying which I will remind the Members. It says “ Usikate kanzu kabla mtoto hajazaliwa .” Tafakari .

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you very much for this opportunity. First of all, I take this early opportunity to thank Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale for the kind words that he said in reference to myself. I feel very humbled. This Motion is about devolution and how to strengthen it in order to meet the hopes and aspirations of Kenyans wherever they live. One of the major functions of Senators is to oversight the work of the county governments; to oversight their programmes, activities and projects so that we can ensure the resources allocated are properly and effectively utilized to meet the objectives of devolution mainly to improve the welfare of our people. We are all aware of what has been going on in the counties. We see high level of corruption, misallocation of resources and empty promises which have been given in the last three or four years. In summary, we all know that there is nothing to show on the ground in the last four years. This is largely so because we have not been able to undertake that aspect of our role; namely, oversight. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for recognizing me to speak to this important Motion in which I have been involved for the last one-and-a-half years. The journey that we have travelled is painful. In my own analysis, what we are dealing with is more than meets the eye. We are dealing with a serious case of mischief, dishonesty and dishonourable conduct among Members of Parliament. If I can retrace the steps, for purposes of record, the journey begun when upon reading the Constitution, the Senate was convinced that for us to control the plunder, theft and wastage of resources in our counties, it was necessary to empower the Senate with necessary resources to enable it to carry out its oversight functions under Article 96 of the Constitution. After several kamukunji meetings, the Senate formally appointed the Senate Oversight Fund Committee chaired by myself and deputized by the able Sen. (Dr.) Zani who supported me and other committed Members of this House. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I must thank the lawyers provided by the Parliamentary Service Commission and the Parliamentary Budget Office who worked with us to develop the initial regulations, which were taken to the Parliamentary Service Commission. The Parliamentary Service Commission approved those regulations and their Chairman, who is the Speaker of the National Assembly, signed them. Thereafter, they were published and brought to this House for approval. The same regulations were The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Conclude. You have 30 seconds.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, give him two more minutes. He is our chairperson.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sorry, you still have a lot of time; five minutes. Somebody had wrongly put on a red light. And being male, colour blindness is not uncommon.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we know you are a surgeon. You do not really rely on your eyes.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): It is a “Y” chromosome linked deficiency. I hope you understand that.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will ask the lawyer, Sen. Wetangula, to help me interpret that because lawyers know many things.

When this new set of rules we had agreed on were published and brought to the House, we did not expect any debate at all because we had agreed. Indeed, when they were tabled before the Senate and taken to the Committee on Delegated Legislation, our Committee passed them. When they were taken to the Committee on Delegated Legislation of the National Assembly, we were informed that even before the Committee sat, those two Members whom I have mentioned; hon. T.J Kajwang and hon. Simba Arati, had raised new issues and they were saying the rules have not been published under the Public Finance and Management Act, 2012. They are the same people with whom we had agreed that the rules should be published under the Parliamentary Service Commission Act. So, they invited Mrs. Phyllis Makau from the Parliamentary Budget office and asked her one question: Are these rules published and can a fund be established without reference to the Public Finance Management Act, 2012? They did not give her the details or the history. When she said the funds should be established under the Public Finance Management Act, 2012, they said it was okay. They wrote a report saying these rules should be allowed because they had not been published under the Public Finance Management Act, 2012. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! May I remind you of your own Standing Order No. 90 (5) which says it shall be out of order for a Senator to criticize or call into question the proceeding in the National Assembly. So, walk carefully. Do not over do it.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I feel pain when you sit down with lawyers, you agree and then they turn around and stab you in the back. We requested to be invited for that meeting by the Committee on Delegated Legislation of the National Assembly. They rushed there, they did not invite us and the same afternoon, the report was before the National Assembly. So, I feel a lot of pain about this. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there appears to be a broad conspiracy to make sure that this Senate is merely a debating club and that it does not deliver. That is why there are so many pieces of legislation passed by the Senate and still pending in the National Assembly. Next year, you will hear some people calling for the Senate to be abolished because it has not passed any laws. They themselves are the ones who have caused those laws not to be published. It gives me a lot of pain that the devolution which we fought for, the county governments for which we fought have now become a burden---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. Sen. Kariuki Geoffrey Gitahi!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first, may I correct you. My name is Sen. (Dr.) G.G Kariuki.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Pardon me; Sen. (Dr.) G.G Kariuki. Let that be recorded properly. What is it, Sen. Wetangula?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the distinguished Senator to say his name is (Dr.) G.G Kariuki when, in fact, doctor is a title but not a name? Sen. G.G Kariuki is his name but he is (Dr.) G.G Kariuki; if you want to---. I congratulate him for getting a doctorate. I have no problem with that. It is just English usage. I hear people saying I am Hon. So-and so---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Wetangula! Sen. (Dr.) G.G Kariuki, continue.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what I am saying here is that we have been talking about this matter for a long time. It is now two years and nothing has happened. We have been talking about this matter for a long time. Two years down the line, nothing has happened. When you talk about something and nothing happens, what do you do? Finally, it is only to speak the way we are speaking here towards the end of the journey. It is very difficult for us to move anywhere. Those who are refusing with this kind of resources know how many more months are remaining before the term of this Parliament ends. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Constitution is a political document. When anyone thinks that he is talking about the Constitution based on many other things, he must always understand those who are on the other side of the coin. What is the reason for them to raise these issues? Here we find ourselves in a very difficult position but we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

There is no need. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

To Dr. G.G. Kariuki.

You are talking to me and not Sen. (Dr.) G.G. Kariuki.

On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

I think you better give me the information.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Do you accept to be informed or you were coerced to accept?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I accept. He is a senior Member.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to inform the distinguished Senator for Laikipia, Sen. (Dr.) G.G Kariuki, that the point he is making is okay. We removed the Senator for Nairobi because even if we retained his name, he would not attend any meeting. That is why we have faith in Sen. Kiraitu Murungi. I suggested on the Floor that when the team goes, my troops are instructed--

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Wetangula. If you have to talk on the character of a Senator, you must be on a substantive Motion. You cannot talk about the Senator for Nairobi like that.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have already instructed my troops that when they go to the Committee, Sen. Kiraitu should be the Chairman or the Co-Chair because he understands politics and the process.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You are again anticipating debate. You are out of order.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there will be no further debate on this.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. Continue, Sen. (Dr). G.G. Kariuki.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was about to withdraw my generosity because he went beyond the limit. I want to appeal to the Senate Majority Leader and the Senate Minority Leader to consult each other when it comes to nominating Members to serve in committees. We are not here to promote people. Even if we were to stay here for many years, there are people who can never improve.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! I will use Standing Order No. 54 (1) and (2). I do not need a Senator to reply, unless he or she so wishes. Since this is not a county issue, I will now put the Question.

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(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Hon. Senators, it is now time to interrupt the proceedings of the Senate. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, 30th November, 2016, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate