Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, acknowledging the good work performed by the Higher Education Loans Board (HELB) in providing loans to students in both public and private universities from poor background in order to access education; noting that higher education financing is a problem in most countries, including the industrialized ones; appreciating that middle-level technicians are key to industrial development, this House urges the Government to enhance funding to HELB and further to widen the scope of its funding to include middle-level colleges, especially those offering technician certificates.
Mr. Kioni! Hon. Ndambuki, do you have a message from him?
We will come back to this Question.
to ask the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs:- (a) could the Minister clarify whether there are valid Voter Registers for Bomachoge and Shinyalu Constituencies in accordance with Section 4A of the National Assembly and Presidential Elections Act, Cap.7? (b) what steps is he taking to ensure that the pending by-elections in the two constituencies are conducted in compliance with the law?
Next Question, Mr. Charles Nyamai!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Could the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government explain the circumstances under which the lease to Land Reference No.11802 belonging to B2 Yatta Ranching Co-operative Society Limited was cancelled by the Kitui County Council? (b) Could he state the measures he is taking to ensure that the said land is not illegally acquired? (c) What steps is the Ministry taking to ensure that persons who have illegally invaded Katoteni Ranch (LR 12010) are evicted?
Mr. Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would seek the indulgence of the Chair for the Question to be called out in the second round.
Very well. Next Question, Dr. Khalwale!
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to ask the Minister for Transport the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Could the Minister Confirm whether Wilson Airport is faced with imminent closure due to failure to meet international aviation standards? (b) What are the specific areas and reason(s) for the failure? (c) What steps is the Minister taking to rectify the situation?
Mr. Minister for Transport?
Mr. Assistant Minister, you are half a minute late! You have Question No.3 by Private Notice.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I apologize. I was held up in traffic.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to reply.
(a) Wilson Airport is not faced with any imminent closure because operations at the airport meet international standards as defined by the International Civil Aviation
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I would like to thank the Assistant Minister for that brief answer, although he knows that he is not articulating what is the truth on the ground. All Kenyans who live in Nairobi know that in the area around the Wilson Airport, there are all manner of constructions coming up. International standards require that the area immediately surrounding an airport should be completely clear in case of any emergency.
Can you ask a question?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, could the Assistant Minister tell us; who are these people who are putting up those private constructions in the airportâs vicinity?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the people who are putting up the constructions around the airport are people who hold valid title deeds that were issued by the Ministry of Lands. As far as the airport authorities are concerned, they only control the height of buildings; they do not control the allocation of land.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, could the Assistant Minister confirm or deny that those tall structures surrounding the airport are a risk to the aircraft landing daily at the airport?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, there is no structure that is being built around the airport that is beyond the required height. All of them are within the required height.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, could the Assistant Minister confirm or deny that there have been at least 50 letters addressed to the Kenya Airports Authority (KAA) by the Kenya Pilots Association (KPA) and other users, complaining about the slums around the airport and the hotel that is coming up in that area, which is directly in the flight path for helicopter landing? This may have had something to do with the helicopter crash that happened two days ago. Finally, could he confirm that pilots are, in fact, thinking of moving from Wilson Airport to Ngong in view of the insecurity situation that has deteriorated to such an extent that planes are not landing there?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I would like to say that the hotel that is coming up at the airport is next to Dr. Barnadoâs home, and that it is not beyond the height that is stipulated. The hotel is not within the flight path. It is quite beyond it. If you look at the hotelâs height and compare it with the AMREF Building, you will see that they are almost of the same height, because they are controlled.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I asked him to confirm or deny that over 50 letters of complaints have been addressed to the KAA, through his office, regarding Wilson Airport. That is the question to which I require an answer.
Mr. Assistant Minister, could you clarify the issue of the letters that have been written?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am not aware of the 50 letters. However, I would want to explain further that if the complaint is about the construction around the airport, the KAA, or my Ministry, does not control the land allocation process. As I said earlier, we only control the height of buildings.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, it is unfortunate that Ministers have to keep on defending positions which cannot be maintained.
Could you ask your question?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, does the Ministry of Transport operate in isolation from that of Lands? Could the Assistant Minister promise this House that he will take up the issue of those issued with title deeds? They have a position. They can even compensate those people. Can they consider compensating those people who have acquired those parcels of the land so that the airport can be expanded and the lives of Kenyans protected?
Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I thank the hon. Member but the issue of land is outside my docket, though we will try to pursue it with the Ministry concerned.
Dr. Khalwale, ask your last question.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, my family has got three pilots; my brother, my aunt, and the Secretary-General of New FORD (K) is a pilot. They have all confirmed that, indeed, they have written these letters to the Minister. If the Assistant Minister does not want to promise that he will act on these 50 letters, can we ask that the Question be deferred, so that we bring these letters here in accordance with Standing Orders?
Dr. Khalwale, your question was not who wrote the letters but whether the Assistant Minister was aware. He said he is not aware. Mr. Assistant Minister, what assurance are you going to give the house, now that you have been informed there are some letters?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, does the Assistant Minister consider it necessary or does he not consider it necessary to revoke these title deeds before a disaster happens at the Wilson Airport or is he fearing because this hotel that is coming up belongs to one of the Cabinet Ministers?
Dr. Khalwale, you are out of order. It is not the title deed that is supposed to tell us that the airport meets international standards. You asked the Assistant Minister about the height and he has answered that. So, Mr. Assistant Minister, can you give an assurance to this House on these letters that you have been informed are floating in the Ministry and you are not telling us whether you are seeing them or not?
Thank you, Madam temporary Deputy Speaker. I assure this House that if the letters are brought to my attention and there is any building that exceeds the height that is required, the building will be reduced to that particular required size.
Next Question, Mr. Koech!
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, although I have not received a written reply, I beg to ask the Minister for Education the following Question by Private Notice:
(a) Could the Minister lay on the Table the amount allocated per student of the free primary education (FPE) funds and the free secondary education (FSE) so far disbursed in the 2009/2010 financial year, indicating the specific dates of disbursement?
(b) Could the Minister (i) explain how the schools have been able to sustain programmes and (ii) how schools are managing the co-curriculum activities and, specifically, how much has been disbursed for school teams participating in the National Music Festival, in Mombasa?
(c) How and when will the minister disburse the balance of the money to the schools, and what plans has he put in place to ensure the funds are not delayed in future?
Anyone from the Ministry of Education? We will come back to the Question.
asked the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance:-
(a) given the Government policy of bringing services closer to the people by creating new districts, why the Government has not extended the same policy to Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) by creating offices in towns like Kitale, Kapenguria and Lodwar in order to avoid the inconvenience for the residents who have to travel upto Eldoret for the services; and
(b) when the Government will open such offices.
I have just received information that the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance is attending the AGOA Forum at the KICC. Mr. Wamalwa, do you have the same information?
Yes, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. Perhaps, the Question could be deferred to next Tuesday.
So, the Question is deferred to next Tuesday.
Mr. Shakeel not here?
Mr. Chachu is not here? We will come back to the Question. Next Question, Mr. Mbai!
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, Mr. Mbai asked me to ask the Question on his behalf in case he comes late. The Temporary Deputy Speaker (Prof. Kamar): Proceed!
REPORT ON TARDAâS ACQUISITION OF MASINGA DAM LAND
on behalf of
, asked the Minister for Regional Development Authorities:-
(a) if he could provide a detailed report on how TARDA acquired the land occupied by Masinga dam;
(b) if he could lay on the Table the agreement between the Authority and the local county councils and state the amount of money paid to them in terms of land rates to date;
(c) If he could State the number of persons displaced by the dam and the rate of compensation; and,
(d) if he could provide the list of projects initiated by TARDA in Masinga Constituency since inception.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to reply.
(a) The Masinga Dam and its buffer zone covers approximately 16,985.4 hectares. Out of this, 10, 206.7 hectares are in Masaku County Council, 10.1 hectares are in Murangâa County Council, 6,764 hectares are in Mbeere County Council, while the land under Kirinyaga County Council covers 4.2 hectares. These parcels of land were trust land and were acquired through respective county councils under the Land Acquisition Act, Chapter 295, for the development of Masinga Multi-purpose Dam which is of national importance, for hydro power generation and integrated development.
(b) TARDA has not entered into any formal agreements with these local councils in regard to ownership of the said land. The amount of money paid by TARDA to the councils to date is as follows:
The total payment due to Mbeere County Council is Kshs1,711, 638 while the amount paid is Kshs800,000. The outstanding balance is Kshs 911,638. For Masaku County Council, the total payment due is Kshs1,420,000. Nothing has been paid so far, so the same amount is still outstanding. For Murangâa County Council, the total amount due is Kshs206,774 and nothing has been paid. For Kirinyaga County Council, the total
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, with regard to part âbâ of the Question, the Minister has not tabled the agreement between the authority and the county councils. As we know, Masinga Dam was initially owned by TARDA. How did KENGEN which is a private company come to own the dam plus the improvements thereon, at no compensation to TARDA?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the dam is still owned by TARDA, but the hydro power stations were transferred to KenGen sometimes back. We have been talking to Treasury to see whether they could pay some money to TARDA. Up to now, nothing has been done. The Treasury was supposed to compensate and pay some money to TARDA which was not done either. When this project was developed at that time, the amount of money that was supposed to be generated by this hydro power station by supplying electricity and selling it to KenGen was supposed to develop areas around Masinga. Since hydro power stations were taken away, TARDA is unable to do any development in that particular area.
Mr. Minister, in part âbâ of the Question, you were supposed to table the agreement. What explanation do you have for that?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, right now I do not have it. There was no agreement between TARDA and KenGen. These assets were transferred by whoever was there. I do not know.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. The Question is not about TARDA and KenGen. The list is for local authoriies. The Minister is avoiding to answer that. Could he table the agreement between TARDA and the county councils?
Mr. Minister, are you aware or not of whether there was an agreement?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in fact, I have answered very clearly. The land was acquired through the Ministry of Lands. It was a trust land. TARDA was supposed to be paying rates to the county council which they have not been
Mr. Minister, how will you ask for the payment of the money if there was no initial agreement to show how much? I think the Question is seeking the kind of information you will deliver on the ground. Was there an agreement or not?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, there was no agreement. There was only council resolution minutes.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, it is the law of this land that there can be no transfer of any property without the agreement being reduced into writing. If there is no agreement, then the transfer itself or the resolutions to the council must be signed. Could the Minister table those resolutions?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I can bring them later.
So, you undertake to come with them when?
Maybe next week. I am not sure, but I will go and find out and bring them. You know these things happened many years ago, but I will find out.
You cannot tell us that you will go and find out. You will look for what initiated the transaction.
Whatever information I get, I will bring it.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the Minister is aware that at the point when these assets were transferred, KenGen were to pay Kshs420 million per year to TARDA. This Kshs420 million was meant to make sure that the development around that area is done. He is further aware that ---
Mr. Mututho, are you giving information? You did not say that you wanted to give him information. Are you asking a question?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, is the Minister aware that TARDA is supposed to be receiving Kshs420 from KenGen from the time they transferred assets? Is he further aware that TARDA is supposed to be receiving Kshs520 million in respect of these assets?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am aware because the documents I have show that they were supposed to be paying that money. So far, they have been paying about Kshs69 million every year instead of Kshs400 million.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, part âdâ of the Question is about corporate responsibility in Masinga and the neighbouring constituencies, including Yatta. The Minister did not mention a single project done by TARDA in terms of corporate responsibility to the people of Masinga and Yatta. He only said that a dam was constructed. He also said that a guesthouse was constructed for the staff of TARDA, KenGen and Kenya Power and Lighting Corporation (KPLC). What has TARDA done for the people around Masinga Dam?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, apart from the dam, schools were also constructed as a social responsibility by TARDA. For example, Yakanau Primary School which cost Kshs1.6 million; Mathenge Primary School which cost Kshs1.6 million; Milimani Primary School which cost Kshs1.3 million; Kikule Primary School which cost 1 million; Twanyonyi Primary School which cost Kshs600,000;
Mr. Minister, I realize you have the list. Initially you did not indicate that you had the list. You were supposed to provide that list to the questioner. We need that list---
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. The question is about Masinga. All these schools that he is talking about are in the neighbouring constituency.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, these schools were done by TARDA. I am not sure in which constituency they are. It was around Masinga Dam.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. Mr. Gumo keeps on taking this House very lightly. He is telling the House that they constructed a primary school at a cost of Kshs53,000. Could he tell us what it is that they did on that school with Kshs53,000?
That is not a point of order, but a question.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, this amount of money was used to supply water to the secondary school. It is not the building of the school.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, in view of the fact that he is not able to provide the list of projects for Masinga and the agreement, could this Question be deferred until the Minister is able to bring that information to the House?
The Minister has given an undertaking that he will come to table the agreement. So I think part âbâ of the Question is settled. The list that the Minister has given lacks the distinction between what is in Masinga Constituency and what is in Yatta Constituency. Mr. Minister, as you table the agreement could we have the list in part âdâ of the Question with distinction? Could we have that next week?
Yes, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Let us move on to the next Question.
CADASTRAL MAP FOR EMUHAYA DCâS OFFICE
asked the Minister for Lands:- (a) when he will furnish the Emuhaya District Commissionerâs Office with a cadastral map showing the extent of Government land; and, (b) if the Ministry could undertake the survey of Government land at Emuhaya District Headquarters and evict those who have encroached on it.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to reply. (a) There is no Government land in Emuhaya District according to the records held in the Ministry of Lands. In this regard, there is no cadastral map for the area. (b) Survey of land can be initiated by any interested person by making application to the area Land Registrar who shall ascertain and fix boundaries. It is only after the boundaries have been fixed that the survey of the land can be carried out. So the District Commissioner, Emuhaya, can initiate the process by applying to the area Lands Registrar.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I would like to thank the Assistant Minister for the answer. I would also like to note that efforts have been made by the District Commissioner to have the Lands Registrar come to fix the boundaries and a surveyor to survey. However, we have not heard any response. I would, therefore, like the Assistant Minister to commit that these officers will come to do their work so that we can have Government land in Emuhaya rightly demarcated.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I can just confess to the hon. Member that we are giving an undertaking that the relevant exercise will be done in view of the fact that our Vote was passed yesterday.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, could the Assistant Minister confirm or deny that cadastral maps of Government land exist?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I did not even get the question properly. But, according to my understanding what was requested was that the area was trust land. That is why we could not avail a cadastral map.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. My question has not been satisfactorily answered.
Could you repeat your question? The Assistant Minister said he did not hear it!
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, simply put the question is: Where there exists Government land, has the Assistant Minister issued cadastral maps to the District Officers in every constituency?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, these maps are available in the provincial offices in every province. If any Government land has not been issued a cadastral map the hon. Member can raise it with me and I will assist him where to get one.
Last question, Dr. Otichilo!
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, could I get an undertaking from the Assistant Minister, when this work will be done in Emuhaya? When will he instruct the Land Registrar and Land Surveyor to undertake the work?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to give an undertaking to the hon. Member that within three months, the officers will be on the ground.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I have not received the written answer.
asked the Minister for Lands:- (a) to explain the circumstances under which Tigoni market, LR. 12082, was sub-divided into nine plots and allocated to private individuals and/or Companies; (b) to state the procedure followed in allocating the land; (c) to table the names of the individuals and companies who benefitted from the public land; and, (d) what steps he is taking to ensure that irregular acquisition of public land is stopped in Kiambu West District, and the country at large.
Mr. Assistant Minister, where is the written answer?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to plead with the Chair so that I answer this Question on Tuesday. The answer which had been provided was not adequate and I want to make some further investigations into this issue.
Is that okay, Mr. Mwathi? I hope you will be there on Tuesday.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the Assistant Minister had indicated to me that he was not ready. I have more information which I can submit to him if he wants.
You are out of order! You are out of order!
We are not supposed to be aware of whatever you do behind the scenes! The Question is deferred to Tuesday next week.
asked the Minister for Agriculture what plans the Ministry has to set up an Agricultural Machinery Services (AMS) unit in Taita district to enable farmers hire machinery.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to reply. The Ministry of Agriculture is going to send 12 tractors to Voi and Taveta and areas around there in January. That is what we have programmed to give.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, subsequent to filing this Question, the Minister visited my constituency last week on Friday. He promised that
The hon. Member is satisfied! Next Question.
asked the Minister for Water and Irrigation:- (a) what has caused the failure of water supply in Migori Municipality for the last two months; and, (b) what urgent plans are in place to ensure that the situation is rectified.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to reply. (a) Failure of water supply in Migori Municipality was caused by disconnection of power supply due to non-payment of outstanding bills of Kshs1,418,574,000. (b) My Ministry, through the Lake Victoria South Water Service Board settled part of the Bill, that was Kshs350,000 and further Kshs600,000 has been paid by my Ministry hence ensuring power supply reconnection. My Ministry also has plans to undertake the following measures to improve water supply to the municipality: (i) Intensity efficient revenue collection from water consumers. (ii) Purchase and install a standby generator for emergency power supply to the boreholes. (iii) Construct a new water and sanitation project for Migori Town that will serve a large population making operation attainable. The project will be funded by the Africa Development Bank (ADB) Finally, I wish to call on all water consumers country-wide to settle their water bills promptly to enable water companies to meet the cost of operations and maintenance.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to commend the Assistant Minister for giving quite an elaborate answer to this Question. However, I want him to put his records right. What was owed was not Kshs1 billion but Kshs1 million plus. That should be stated well by the Assistant Minister. One of the main problems we face in Migori---
Ask your question!
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am building on the question. We have a lot of fluctuation of power in Migori. This idea of bringing us a generator is quite timely. I want to commend the Assistant Minister on that. However, could the Assistant Minister tell us the framework? This is the major problem we face in Migori. We have a lot of power interruption which causes lack of water supply to Migori residents.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the Migori water supply was developed in 1956 with a capacity of 450 cubic meters. Today, we require almost 7,000 cubic meters of water. We have approached the ADB which has given us loans and grants of Kshs742 million. With this, we will improve the water systems and have ablution
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I wish to congratulate the Assistant Minister for his good answer. The population of Migori is expanding fast and I appreciate the efforts being taken. Similarly, in the neighbourhood is Homa Bay District where there is also acute and persistent water shortage despite the Assistant Minister persistently promising that the Ministry will expand the water supply. What has he done to ensure that the Homa Bay water project is expanded? Within what time line will he expand the project?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, we must be having plans for Homa Bay water project. However, it is good that I do not attempt to answer that Question because it is different. I can get the information for the hon. Member if he asks the Question. However, I would prefer if he comes for the information from my office.
Ask the last question, Mr. Pesa!
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, just as I said earlier on, I am quite satisfied with the answer. However, when the Assistant Minister will be visiting Homa Bay water project, could he pass through Migori so that he could see for himself the water problems that the people who live there are facing?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, these days I am friendly to these Members of Parliament. I will make sure that I move around Nyanza Province to see, at least, what is going on there. I hope the hon. Members will get a lot of fish for me!
Let us move on to Question No.326 by Mr. Sirma.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. With regard to Question No.326, I came here ready to answer the Question but the hon. Member is not here. You have not made a ruling on it.
Mr. Assistant Minister, I have given everybody else a second round. So, be patient!
Let us move on to Question No.335!
asked the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs:-
(a) what measures the Ministry has taken to set up a High Court in Migori to cater for Nyatike and Migori districts; and,
(b) when the Ministry will construct a Magistrateâs Court in the newly created Nyatike District.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to reply.
(a) The Government appreciates that Migori District and the newly created district of Nyatike are in need of court services. The judiciary is currently constructing a High Court at Migori District Headquarters at a cost of Kshs31,562,582.
(b) The Judiciary will consider constructing a law court in the new district of Nyatike as soon as land for that purpose is allocated and funds secured.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, could the Assistant Minister confirm today when the contractor will complete the construction of the High Court in Migori District?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am unable to give a specific date when the construction of that High Court will be completed. All I can confirm is that the project is on-going. I believe that it will be completed as soon as possible.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, could the Assistant Minister clarify whose responsibility it is to get land for the Judiciary to construct a court in Nyatike District, if it is not his responsibility?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, as I have said, Nyatike is one of the new districts that were created recently. It is for the leadership within the new district to allocate land for court services and other services that are required in the district. It is not the responsibility of the Ministry of Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs to provide land. However, we will support in the construction of the court and ensure that the staff are posted there.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, pursuant to the question which has just been asked, could the Assistant Minister confirm whether they can buy land in a place where there is no public land to be allocated to the judiciary. However, local leaders can identify the appropriate land to be purchased by the Ministry. Could the Assistant Minister provide funds for the purchase of that land?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the answer is âNoâ.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the problem of shortage of courts and magistrates is not just limited to Nyatike and Migori districts but across the country. How much money has the Assistant Minister put in the current Financial Estimates to ensure that we, at least, reduce the problem of shortage of courts and hire Judges and magistrates?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I agree with my friend that this is not just a problem for Nyatike District. We now have new districts. There are no courts even in some old districts. Therefore, it is important, that as a Government, we look forward to expanding these facilities. This Financial Year, Kshs441 million has been
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I would like to thank the Assistant Minister. However, I would like to ask him how long it takes to start the construction where there is no land. In Kabiyet which is in my district, we have land but no work is on-going.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, once land is available the next step is allocation of funds for purposes of construction. I think that is where we are. We will consider the case of Kabiyet perhaps this financial year or in the next financial year.
Ask the last question, Mr. Anyanga!
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I have to thank the Assistant Minister for that elaborate answer. However, I would like to confirm today that there is enough land in Nyatike for the construction of the law courts. Could the Assistant Minister confirm when the Government will start the construction of that facility within Nyatike District?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am glad that my colleague has confirmed there is land for the construction of law courts in Nyatike District. We will consider his case this financial year now that he has availed the land.
Let us move on to Question No.360 by Mr. Mwaita.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, although I have not received a copy of the written answer, I beg to ask Question No.360.
MINISTRYâS POLICY ON SCHOOL FEEDING PROGRAMME
asked the Minister for Education:-
(a) to state the Ministryâs policy on the school feeding programme;
(b) what effect the current programme has on the free primary education in Arid and Semi-Arid Lands (ASALs); and,
(c) whether the programme was piloted prior to its implementation.
The Minister for Education, where is the written answer?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg the indulgence of the House to allow me to answer this Question tomorrow. I do not have an answer that I can present to the House.
I think the Order Paper for tomorrow is already out. Your Question will, therefore, be deferred to Tuesday, next week. Mr. Mwaita, are you okay with that?
I have no problem, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Yes, Prof. Olweny, next week on Tuesday!
We will do it, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker.
We will go back to Question No.1 by Private Notice.
to ask the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs:-
(a) Could the Minister clarify whether there are valid voter registers for the Bomachoge and Shinyalu constituencies in accordance with Sec.4A of the National Assembly and Presidential Elections Act, Cap.7?
(b) What steps is he taking to ensure that the pending by-elections in the two constituencies are conducted in compliance with the law?
I have got information that Jeremiah Kioni is among the team that was sent to the AGOA Meeting. So, that Question is deferred. The Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs, you are here. The Question is deferred to next week on Wednesday.
Next Question; Question No.4 by Private Notice by hon. David Koech!
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I be to ask the Minister for Education the following Question by Private Notice:- (a) When he will table in the House the amount allocated per student of the Free Primary Education (FPE) and Free Secondary Education (FSE) so far disbursed in the 2009/2010 Financial Year, indicating the specific dates of disbursement?
(b) Could he explain (i) how the schools have been able to sustain programs and (ii) how schools are managing the co-curriculum activities and, specifically, how much has been disbursed for the school teams participating in the National Music Festivals in Mombasa?
(c) How and when he will disburse the balance of the money to the schools, as well as what plans he has put in place to ensure the funds are not delayed in future?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, first, may I apologise for coming in late to handle this Question. I, once again, beg for the indulgence of the House to answer this Question tomorrow. But if you also look at that Question, it is not well framed because the Questioner wants us to give a breakdown of how much has been disbursed for the year 2009/2010. So, you can see that there is a problem with the Question. When I looked at the answer, it was not related to the Question because I have got the breakdown for the last financial year. The Question
Yes. Can we, therefore, defer that Question to next Wednesday, so that the Question could be reframed? Mr. Koech, are you okay with that?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, this is a very, very important Question and that is why it is by Private Notice. I am in concurrence with the Assistant Minister that he could avail the answer tomorrow. The correction to the first part of the Question is that we wanted the disbursement from January, 2009.
Are you agreeing that we can defer it to tomorrow?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, with a small amendment on the first part of the Question---
Mr. Assistant Minister, are you ready for tomorrow with that amendment?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, he has to sit down before I stand!
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I wanted to propose the amendment.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, we have to get the right Question in the Ministry, so that we can respond. If we get the right Question today, then I hope we can make it tomorrow. I have promised you!
Okay. If you can make it tomorrow, then we will defer the Question to tomorrow! But I do not want to give you false hopes, Mr. Koech. Let us defer that Question to next Wednesday!
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker.
No! You cannot overrule the Chair!
Mr. Koech, it has been ruled that the Question comes back next Wednesday.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I to ask the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government the following Question by Private Notice.
(a) Could the Minister explain the circumstances under which the lease to land reference number LR11802 belonging to B2 Yatta Ranching Co-operative Society Limited was cancelled by the Kitui County Council?
(b) What measures is he taking to ensure that the land (LR118020) is not illegally acquired?
(c) What steps is the Ministry taking to ensure that persons who have illegally invaded Katoteni Ranch (LR 12010) are evicted?
I am sorry I skipped Question No.2 by Private Notice. We were also informed that the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government is attending the AGOA Meeting. So, that Question is also deferred to next Wednesday. That is the Question by Private Notice by Charles Nyamai. Is it agreed?
Yes, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Thank you. So, Questions No.1 and No.2 by Private Notice will both come back next Wednesday!
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I have heard you deferring Questions because of AGOA. In every Ministry, there is a Minister and an Assistant Minister. Also, Parliament takes precedence over everything else. Are we now saying that Parliament will be paralyzed because of AGOA? Can you, please, give us directions?
Yes. Where a Minister has requested that he or she wants to come and answer the Question, we do, by tradition, allow that. So, we have done it before and we are doing it again. Next Question by Mr. Shakeel, Question No.241!
Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I would like to apologize to you and the House for coming in late. I want to say that AGOA and Madam Clinton are the cause for us being late.
Ask your Question and apologise for being late!
But I need to make a statement!
Apologise for being late! Other hon. Members arrived in time in spite of Madam Clinton being in town!
But it is a very important issue!
Can you ask your Question and apologise for being late?
asked the Minister for Forestry and Wildlife:-
(a) why the family of Master Jackson Nyamohanga (12), who was trampled by a rogue elephant, and who have filled the necessary claim forms, have not been compensated; and,
(b) what is the amount of the compensation due to them and when it will be paid.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. Did you hear the hon. Member say that Madam Clinton made him come in late?
Mheshimiwa Profesa, I have not given you the Floor! Proceed, Minister for Forestry and Wildlife!
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to reply. (a) My Ministry has already compensated the next of kin to Master Jackson Wankwi Nyamohanga with Kshs200,000. The money was sent to the District Commissioner (DC), Kuria. The cheque number is 873 dated 4th March, 2009. The claimantâs compensation cheque is thus held at the DCâs Office, Kuria. I am requesting that the hon. Member asks the beneficiary to go to the DC, Kuria for his compensation cheque. (b) The compensation, according to the current Wildlife Conservation and Management (Amendment) Act Cap 376 under Section 62 for persons killed by wildlife is Kshs200,000, maximum.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to thank the Assistant Minister for that answer. The claimant has waited for three years from the time they filed the papers. It took a Question that I raised in February, 2009, for that cheque to be done in March, 2009. It appears that animals are more important than people to the Ministry of Forestry and Wildlife. Why was it late? Why can we not be given interest for the three years and what happened to your performance contracts for the Ministry to delay that cheque for three years? You have the audacity, Mr. Assistant Minister, to come and say: âIt has already been compensatedâ without apologising for taking three years to do that! Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, let me admit that there may have been a delay, which was as a result of the process of compensation which, by law, begins from the District before these claims are forwarded to the Ministry headquarters for compensation. But we do apologise for the delay. As of now, we are still holding close to Kshs450,000 claims, which we are expediting and we hope that there will no longer be any more delays.
Last question, Mr. Shakeel!
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, that is misleading. The DC sent the papers two years ago! It is totally inhuman that a person who has lost somebody has to wait for two years!
Can you ask your question and clarification?
Yes, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. The question is: Is the Ministry going to give some interest or some compensation for the delay to the family? Kshs200,000 is just not enough!
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, that is the law. If we change it in this House the compensation claims will be adjusted.
Next Question, Mr. Chachu!
asked the Minister for Regional Development Authorities:-
(a) to state the number and locations of water pans, dams and boreholes scheduled to be constructed by Ewaso Ngiro North Development Authority (ENNDA) in Marsabit North (Chalbi) District in the current financial year; and,
(b) if he could assure the House that the said development projects will be implemented before the end of the current financial year.
Could you apologise for coming late?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I apologise for coming late.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to reply. (a) In the Financial Year 2009/2010, the Ewaso Ngiro North Development Authority is scheduled to construct one water pan and six boreholes in Chalbi or Marsabit North District in the following areas: The water pan in the name Ndege Pan is located in Bubisa Location, Turbi Division, North Horr Constituency. The six boreholes are as follows:- (i) Hidido in Forole Location, Turbi Division; (ii) Sabarei in Bales Saru Location, Dukana Division; (iii) Dukana in Dukana Location, Dukana Division; (iv) Badana in Bubisa Location in Turbo Division; (v) El-qete in North Horr Location, North Horr Division; and, (vi) Burgabo in Turbi Division, North Horr Division. All these borehores are in North Horr Constituency.
(b) I also wish to assure this House that these development projects will be implemented before the end of this financial year. The funds amounting to Kshs59.7 million have been provided for these projects. My Ministry has also put the Authority
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I thank the Assistant Minister for very good response. These projects were planned for the last Financial Year, 2008/2009. In response to when these projects will be implemented, he says they will be done in the next 12 months, this means any time between now and the end of the current financial year. Due to the current drought, the livelihood of the pastoralists of the northern Kenya is under threat. Our livestock are dying in large numbers due to lack of water and pasture. Could he tell this House when these projects will be implemented? I need actual dates. I also want to know whether the tenders have been awarded and geological surveys done.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to assure this House and the hon. Member that some progress has already been made. In fact, as I speak now, the contractors are moving to the ground. In all these projects, tendering has been done. The contracts have been awarded. I called the Authority this morning before I came to this House to confirm whether these contractors have moved to site. I was assured that all of them will be on site within the next two weeks. If the contractors will not be there in the next two weeks, I will liaise with the hon. Member from the area and ensure that these projects are implemented without further delay.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I also rise to follow up because in Bori District, Imenti North Constituency, there were projects that were earmarked in the last financial year, but they were never done. They were two boreholes, water pans and ground water harvesting. Could the Assistant Minister tell the House why these projects were never implemented in the last financial year? These projects are in Bori, Kisima, Maitei and Nkando.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will agree with me that, that is totally a different question, but I will attempt to give some basic information.
You are all aware that in the last financial year because of the current trends of drought, provision of relief food and other unforeseen things that happened, a lot of budgetary allocations were reduced in all Ministries. That could have been one of the reasons some of the projects were not implemented. However, I want to assure the hon. Member that I will follow up to see how we can make up for those projects.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I also have similar projects where the Authority promised to undertake, last financial year. But up to date these projects have not been implemented. What assurance does the Assistant Minister give to this House that these projects sponsored by the Authority will actually be implemented?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, one of the financial undoing of the Regional Development Authorities Ministry is that they heavily rely on donor funding. Sometimes money is factored in the Budget, but is not forthcoming. But we will do our best to ensure that within our budgetary limits, we will implement as many projects as proposed by respective leaders from those areas.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, what criteria does the Ministry use to determine where to construct water pans and dams in any district?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the Ministry does not decide where to put up pans or sink boreholes in any district. This is done at the district level through what we call the District Steering Group (DSG) chaired by the District
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I would like to thank the Assistant Minister again for a very good response. I also wish to thank the Ewaso Ngiro North Development Authority for doing a lot of good work in the area it is mandated to serve.
Northern Kenya has some of the deepest boreholes. Some of these boreholes have a depth of 320 metres. Could he assure this House and my people of North Horr that the rig that they will use to drill those boreholes will really serve the purpose? We need to use the state of the art rigs that are available in todayâs market to drill these boreholes? Could we have the assurance that they will use the best rigs that could drill even up to 350 metres in that region?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to assure the hon. Member that we got Kshs59.7 million from the African Development Bank. The bank is involved in the tendering process for these projects. We will ensure that quality equipment is used to do quality job.
Question No.326, Mr. Sirma!
Hon. Members we have a few Ministerial Statements which will be made by Ministers. We will take the first one which is from the Ministry of Higher Education, Science and Technology.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I had asked for a Statement on the unrests and closure of Kenyatta University.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I will give a Statement in response to hon. Dr. Khalwaleâs request on the unrest at the Kenyatta University.
First, I would like to remind hon. Members that there were actually two riots and the university was closed twice during the month of March. The main issue related to registration deadlines. Some students had not met that deadline and when extension was
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I thought the hon. Member will ask me questions after the Statement. There is no problem any way.
Wind up, Dr. Mwiria.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the Assistant Minister has said; âWe need to be part of the solution and not be part of the problem.â That is wonderful. Could the Assistant Minister tell us what action the Government â not the university â will take against politicians who are in two sets? One of the politicians in the first group is a sitting Member of Parliament. They went and incited students by arranging meetings and made sure that the students did what they did. The other one is an immediate former Member of Parliament who did the same thing. I would like to know what the Ministry will do to the second group of politicians. On 18th July, 2009, four Members of Parliament from the Mt. Kenya area addressed 300 students from the area with a brief that they should go and defend the Vice-Chancellor. What action will the Assistant Minister take against these shameless politicians?
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Order, Mr. Jamleck! He has the priority to seek a clarification. Mr. Jamleck. Kamau, I will give you a chance later on.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, one of the recommendations by the Senate was that the damage visited to this institution be shared between the students and the institution. Could the Assistant Minister tell us how much will be borne by the students and the university? The Assistant Minister has also raised the issue of negative ethnicity. I would like him to tell us what he will do on this matter. This is because if you look at the politicians who incited the students, you will realise that they come from communities that the Vice- Chancellor does not come from. That gives me the impression that those politicians were deliberately fighting the Vice-Chancellor.
Mention them! Who are they?
I will not bother mentioning them because the Senate was very kind because it mentioned them. Would you like me to read out the names?
Order, Dr. Khalwale! Will you table the document?
It is very brief, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Could you table it? You will not read it out before we know them.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, because this is not witch- hunt, this Report speaks about consultations that were done between the student leadership and the Office of the Prime Minister; the students and hon. Mwandawiro Mganga; and, the students and hon. Ababu Namwamba. Lecturers were also involved.
Order, Dr. Khalwale! Before you read out the names, could I have the document so that I can see if it is signed and whether it can be admitted for tabling?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, a copy of this document is also with the Ministry. This is a very serious matter. We cannot allow politicians to mess up our universities.
Dr. Khalwale, you also know that it is very serious that we authenticate some of the documents before you proceed. It is very important that you give us what you are referring to.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, while you are authenticating the documents, I can finalise my clarifications. On the matter of negative ethnicity, the politicians who were at Blue Post Hotel actually paid out Kshs1,000 to each of the students who attended that meeting.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I happen to be one of the people who were at the Blue Post Hotel. The meeting at that hotel was simple. We discussed the declining education standards in our region. Then the hon. Member rises up here---
Mr. J. I. Kamau, you will not defend yourself here. You rose on a point of order.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am not defending myself. I am asking whether it is in order for the hon. Member to say things here which he cannot substantiate. Could he table any evidence here that there were hon. Members from Central Kenya who incited students? He should substantiate that or withdraw the remarks.
Dr. Khalwale, before you continue, I want the signed copy of this document. We will not admit a document from a University Senate that has not been signed by the Chairperson of the Senate.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I will allow the Assistant Minister to also confirm that he has got the same Report. He can table his copy which is signed.
Order, Dr. Khalwale! You should not inform this House that you are colluding with the Assistant Minister. You
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. We need to protect the integrity of this House. We need to ensure that the documents that are tabled before this House are above reproach. If the document that has been tabled is not signed, we do not need to use it.
Hon. Duale, you are out of order! You have repeated exactly what I have said. I will allow the Assistant Minister to make a clarification. Thereafter, I will open the Floor for Members to contribute to the debate. In the meantime, I want to deal with this document. Hon. Assistant Minister, make your first clarification.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I would like to respond to the issues that hon. Khalwale has raised. First of all, I want to thank him for asking his question in good faith. He has realized that there were political dimensions of the problem that had nothing to do with the students. I really congratulate him for that. That is the spirit. The documents talks about consultations that took place and the involvement of politicians. Let me also say that some students came and consulted me as the Assistant Minister for Higher Education, Science and Technology. I told the students that any time they go on strike, it messes them up. They are the ones who suffer. I told the students leader, Mr. Kimaru, that the best thing is to try and talk more and more but, a week after he left my office, there were problems. But we should encourage consultations as long as they are possible. We should talk to our young people and our staff members. But there are politicians who were bent on causing political trouble. Those meetings that we are being told about are referred to by the Senate and those problems took place. It is very unfortunate that there were professors who also took part in that. If people who are supposed to be intellectuals result to violence and cannot negotiate their problems, that is a serious problem. Ideally, we should be---
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Let him finish making his clarifications and then you will ask your questions.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am explaining, so that I can respond. You are too impatient! You do not want me to finish this one, so that you can ask another one!
Mr. Assistant Minister, could you address the Chair! You are quarrelling with hon. Members! Can you address the Chair! I have given you the chance to clarify.
Hon. Members, before we go for clarification, I want to confirm that the document that I have been given has no signature. It has a list of members of Kenyatta University Senate who participated in the meeting. Dr. Khalwale is not going to be helped unless he helps himself. A document that is not signed cannot be admitted by this House. So, we are not going to admit this document until we have a signed copy. Now, can we allow other Members to seek their clarification?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I beg your indulgence to first thank the Assistant Minister for clarifying that the meeting alluded to of Central Kenya leaders, where I was not present, was a normal meeting. We all meet our students from wherever region we come from. But could the Assistant Minister tell us what the Government is doing to deal with negative ethnicity in our institutions of higher learning, especially the universities? It affects both the students and the lecturers as has been exemplified in the Kenyatta University case. Secondly, what is the Government and, particularly, the Ministry doing to ensure that our universities have adequate security and that police posts are located within the universities? What investigations have been done to punish outsiders who instigated the riots and destruction at Kenyatta University? They include politicians and other outsiders. What is the Government doing to guarantee tuition, accommodation and food for the students? The question, as the Assistant Minister has shown, is economic. It is about students who could not pay for the exams. That is where it started. Could the Assistant Minister assure us that the loans structure will include all the necessary components to ensure that students from poor families are able to continue with their studies?
Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. The reasons that the Assistant Minister has given for the two strikes include among others, withdrawing ambulance, shuttle services and the code of dressing. Those are issues that the university administration would have discussed with the students leadership. What is the Ministry doing to ensure that communication and dialogue between university administrations and the students is encouraged, so that the universities do not degenerate into high schools? Those strikes occurred immediately after the students
Madam Temporary Speaker, I happen to be an old student of Kenyatta University. So, I have a lot of interest in this matter. First of all, I would like the Assistant Minister to do the House a favour by tabling the signed report, which he has. Secondly, it is now clear that the matter at Kenyatta University was of a political nature--- It was politicized by the politicians and, therefore, the students who were involved in those acts were victims of political manipulations. Could I, therefore, request the Assistant Minister to plead with the Vice- Chancellor and the University Council to waive the disciplinary measures that were taken against the students, allow the students to go back and counsel them? Many of them have spent a lot of money and are about to finish their courses. That will destroy the lives of young people who have invested so much in their education, given that they were misled. Finally, I just want to confirm that the management at the university has done an exceptional job, going by the report that has been given by the Assistant Minister. They need to be encouraged and not to be discouraged under the circumstances.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I would like to associate myself with the comments regarding how well the university management has done. As I seek clarification, my I also request that the Assistant Minister facilitates our discussion of the Report that was given to the Ministry by tabling it, so that I can get some time to interrogate it? The contents of that Report are crucial to this discussion. May I also seek a further clarification from the Assistant Minister as to whether they will support the recommendations of the Senate Committee against the studentsâ leaders, and all those who incited the students to strike? I would like him to go further and declare to this House what they will do about the lecturers who incited students. Could we also have the documents that Dr. Khalwale was stopped from tabling on the ground that they were unofficial? Could he, therefore, clarify that stern action will be taken against these people?
I also wish to mention that I have an interest in the matter, because the said university is located in my constituency, it has done a great job for our neighbourhood.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, you realise that this is a matter that is generating a lot of interest. I am delighted because it is all in the spirit of all of us having an interest in our public institutions of learning.
Let me, quickly, address the issues raised by Ms. Karua on negative ethnicity. This is an issue we have spoken about for a long time. First of all, we need to address its face from the administration. Our universities are quite ethnicised when it comes to the top management. If you go to Luo Nyanza, you will find that the Vice-Chancellors and all the senior staff of universities in that region come from a certain community. If you go to Luhya Land, the scenario is more or less the same. If you go to the Rift Valley, you find that the situation is more or less the same. I am saying this because we need to address
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. You have heard the Assistant Minister say that the Vice-Chancellors and other university administrators are appointed on tribal lines. We know that the appointing authority in this country is the President. Is he implying that the President of the Republic of Kenya is applying ethnicity by appointing people based on tribes?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I did not say that the President appointed those fellows. What I said is that, by virture of our history, appointments have been done that way. Even now, when we are starting new institutions, some of us politicians are insisting on the same policy. For instance, if there is a new institution in Kisiiland, the political leadership in that area would insist that a Kisii must be the principal. We have read that in the newspapers. In Narok, the politicians themselves are saying that the principal must be a Maasai. So, ni bure kabisa !
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, we need to address this issue as a matter of national importance because, as long as---
Mr. Assistant Minister, can you watch our language? Can you withdraw those words?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I cannot see it, but I will do my best.
So, even part of the tension you saw at Kenyatta University was because there are people from a different ethnic group who thought that the person who comes from this ethnic community should not be the Vice-Chancellor. That is a fact. I think the more openly we talk about these things, the better it is for this country. That is a problem across the board. So, why do we not even rotate these Vice-Chancellors, so that we have the one who is at Egerton University going to Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture and Technology (JKUAT) and take whoever is at Kenyatta University to Maseno University? These are issues we should be discussing as Members of Parliament.
Secondly, studentsâ politics is very ethnicised. Unfortunately, Members of Parliament, very shamelessly, support students leaders who come from their ethnic groups. They fund them. This is a fact. We have to stop this and encourage our students not to ethnicise politics, because, after all, they are the future leaders of this country. We always say that our young people are the future leaders. How are they going to be the future leaders if they practise the same tribalism that we see in this House? How are they going to help this country if they practise the same tribalism that we see in Orange Democratic Movement (ODM) Party of National Unity (PNU) and in all other political parties? Whenever I have a chance to talk to students, I tell them: âPlease, lead by example.â
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the issue of security support is important. We are negotiating with universities to see how we can support them. Some universities
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. The issue of Kenyatta University appears to be very emotive. It appears to involve a lot of other people outside the university fraternity. Would I be in order to request that this issue be referred to the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology, so that it can deal with it adequately? This is because we are going round in circles without getting solution to the problem.
Hon. Koech, are you saying that the matter is already with the Committee?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I wanted to contribute to the discussion and mention that fact.
Could you, first, say whether it is already with the Committee?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, as a Committee, that is part of our mandate. We went there on our own to investigate this issue. We were not directed to do so.
Okay. I want to rule on the point of order raised by Dr. Eseli, because seeking one clarification after another and looking at documents that are not ours will not take us very far. I would, therefore, like to rule that any document that is around here should be given to the Committee, and we will get the Committeeâs report. We do not want the House to be subjected to discussing documents of a university â documents that have not been signed, to begin with. Can we, therefore, ask the Committee to prepare a report and include in it what has come from the University Senate and what has transpired on the Floor of this House, and table that report here? We will then be able to conclusively discuss this matter.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker.
I have ruled on this matter!
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am not contradicting your ruling.
What is your point of order?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the point of order is just to ask your indulgence to allow the Assistant Minister to table those reports, so that the documents can be officially before the House. I do not want to be seen to have brought something fake to the House. I have already compared my documents with his and seen that they are replicas of each other.
Mr. Assistant Minister, do you have a document you can table?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, in the spirit of transparency, I will be quite happy to table it. It will also be available to the Departmental Committee.
Thank you. Make sure that you surrender it to the Committee.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, in the meantime, I would like to finish my clarification.
You have only one minute to wind up.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I will finish very quickly. So, after elections, again, we have to address this issue in the same manner as before.
On the issue of the students who have been expelled, I would like to say that the Vice-Chancellor herself is very willing. The students have been asked to appeal, and they have appealed. They should go there, not in a fighting mood. I have been a great advocate of forgiving our students because they are young people, and all of us make mistakes. If Parliamentarians can make terrible mistakes and still come back to Parliament, how about students, who are young people?
Finally, I would like to say that we are agreed that politicians took part in this. Are we agreed?
Then we are agreeing that Parliament should be part of the cost-sharing. They should continue with the repair of the damage of the university!
Order, Mr. Assistant Minister. You will not take advantage of this House! We have seen your document. It is authenticated and signed. This document is the property of the House. This document will be discussed and a report will be tabled by the Committee. It is at that point that you will do your clarifications. Mr. Koech, could we give you two weeks? Are you able to do so within two or three weeks?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, if you could give us two and a half weeks, we shall be comfortable with that.
We are expecting it back in three weeks with all those reports.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. There are students who have actually been, wrongfully, suspended and expelled. Could we, please, have that report earlier than that?
The debate that we have here is a very sensitive one. We want a thorough report to be brought here. Let us give them the required three weeks. Anybody with any information is welcome to share it with the Committee.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, on that issue of suspended and expelled students, the Senate report recommends that their problems be sorted out before---
Dr. Khalwale, you are talking of a report that is already in the House. Do not explain the details of the report to this House. The Chairman of the Committee will come and give us that report. You will be able to contribute at that stage.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:-
THAT, aware that the Government has granted leases for land in settlement schemes ranging from 99 to 999 years and freehold titles to others in the same localities; appreciating the need to harmonize land tenures in the same area; this House urges the Government to adopt a uniform land title policy and converts all the leases for agricultural settlement schemes to freehold titles to facilitate enhanced agricultural output.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, in moving this Motion, I would like to say that land is the source of most of these problems in this country. During the colonial era, this country was a British Protectorate. It was declared British Protectorate on 15th June, 1895. In the process of wanting to acquire and possess land in this country, the rulers at that time enacted some Bills. There was the Crown Lands Ordinance of 1902 and the Crown Lands Ordinance of 1915. These pieces of legislations still haunt us today, 45 years of Independence.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, most of the problems that we have in this country are brought about by land. The Ministry of Lands which is charged with the responsibility of management of land in this country is working at a slow pace in demarcating land in pastoral areas where there are chunks of land.
In some areas, people have different land leases. Some have a lease of 99 years while others are freehold. There is no uniformity in the land policy in this country. This has led, not only to the reluctance of farmers to produce more food to feed this country, but it has actually brought some problems even among the neighbours. This has contributed to corruption even in the Ministry. Nobody knows exactly what is happening. This Motion is trying to bring out the concerns of freehold. Most agricultural land is
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I wish to thank Mr. Boaz Kaino for allowing me to second this Motion. I also want to commend the Minister for Lands
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I commend Mr. Kaino for bringing this Motion before this House. It is an important Motion because it gives us an opportunity to discuss very important matters in relation to land tenure and generally, on the land policy. I do not want to anticipate debate on the land policy, because right now, the Ministry is preparing a Sessional Paper on the land policy which will be brought to this House for debate and approval or otherwise. This Motion makes some assumptions which are not correct. I have discussed with my colleague, Mr. Kaino, that subject to some amendments, we have no problem with the Motion. However, I would like to point out aspects of this Motion which are not correct. I want Dr. Eseli to listen because he is also affected. I know that these matters are very important in so far as Dr. Eseliâs constituency is concerned. The position in the country at the moment is that every land that falls under an agricultural settlement scheme is on freehold title. Under the Agriculture Act, which is the operative provision, the SFT cannot issue any title in an agricultural scheme which is not a freehold. In fact, the Motion is asking us to do what is already in place. All titles in agricultural settlement schemes are freehold. We are going in the opposite direction in the National Land Policy in so far as agricultural settlement schemes are concerned. It is also a fact that in trust lands which have been adjudicated and people issued with titles, they are given freehold titles or what is called under the Registered Land Act âabsolute proprietorshipâ. This means that you virtually own that land without any conditions. So, a squatter who is allocated land in a settlement scheme is issued with a freehold title. With regard to what Dr. Eseli was talking about in relation to pieces of the land in his constituency which are on leasehold, those pieces of land were formally occupied by the white settlers or those who managed to get Government land on leasehold. Since they were on leasehold, they cannot transfer a title that is better than the title they hold.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Motion with a proposed amendment.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Motion be amended as follows:-
By deleting the words âand converts all the leases---â
Order! Do you have that proposed amendment?
Yes, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I gave a copy to the clerks.
Yes, go on!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Motion be amended as follows:-
By deleting the words âand converts all the leasesâ, which appears on the fourth line. And number two:-
By deleting the words âto freehold titlesâ, which appears on the fifth line. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the reason for the amendment has been explained very well by the Minister. The reason why I would want to also propose this amendment is simply because of the business that we have turned land into. As a Government, the policy should be land for agriculture. We have always talked about agriculture being the backbone of our economy. It no longer is! The reason why agriculture is no longer the backbone of our economy is because land has been converted into commercial use. Some use it for speculation. There are people who own acres and acres of land simply for speculative purposes. So, when Kenyans are going hungry, there is land sitting idle that could be used for agricultural purposes.
That is why, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I really would like to urge the Minister â he came on a platform of reform and one of his first promises to Kenyans was to bring the land policy reform program. We are disappointed, as we are, with this Government. But we are also disappointed with the Ministry of Lands; the slow pace of reform on the issue of land policy is a bit disappointing. That is why you find an hon. Member bringing this Motion because the Government is not moving on this issue. The more the Government drags its feet on this issue, the more Kenyans become apprehensive. All the issues we are talking about today, it does not matter from which angle, are revolving around the issue of squatters, people looking for land and people looking for food security.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issue of food security in Kenya has become bigger than the issue of even conflict on the borders. Why? Because we have no food in this country. It is a shame that we have so much land in this country, but we do not have enough food for our people! It is simply because of a historical injustice during the colonial era â that the Minister has actually explained â where land was given to the white settlers. It was thereafter taken over by those who were close to those white settlers. Up to today, we continue to live in a land where there those who own Kenya and those who are squatters. Unfortunately, those who own Kenyans are the minority. Majority of Kenyans are actually squatters in their country.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to urge the Minister to put in place this policy faster because it is bringing conflict and tension in our country. Every community now has an issue of land, even those that did not have issues of land before.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to second the amended Motion.
In support of the amended Motion, I have one thing that I agree with the Mover of the original Motion; that, we really need to have uniformity in land tenure and ownership in this country, regardless of whether it is a settlement or not a settlement scheme. The issue of land ownership in this country is really confusing to many of us. We do not even understand why land lease is given for 999 years. It is like it is discretion of some officers in the Ministry of Lands. So, we if could have some kind of uniformity in land ownership and land tenure, then I think we would move a long way in understanding how land is being allocated and owned in this country. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am one of the people who do not believe that someone should have freehold access to land. To me, all the land should have a uniform lease. If it is 999 years, let it be. This issue of some people owning land as freehold land should not arise. Does land belong to the Government or some land belongs to individuals and others belong to the Government? I am aware that the Ministry has come up with a land policy document which will be approved by this House. This is a step in the right direction. All along, we have been asking the Ministry of Lands to come up with a land policy document that would guide land allocation, management and use in this country. I also want to talk about the so called historical injustices. The main reason for talking about settling people is because of historical injustice. My advice to the Ministry and I believe it is captured in the land policy document; we should really be clear about what historical injustice is all about. The words âhistorical injusticeâ in this country is really confusing. Some communities say they have faced a lot of historical injustices. When you ask them from who? They say from other communities in Kenya. So, where does the words âhistorical injusticeâ end? Does it start in 1963 when Kenya got Independence or does it go back to the colonial period when some people were removed from their land to create space for white settlers? So, I would expect the Ministry to be very clear on what would amount to historical injustice.
A lot has been said about reforms in the lands sector. The land sector still needs a lot of reforms. The Minister must have taken over with a lot of zeal because he is
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I now want to support the Motion as amended. Yesterday, we were debating the Vote of this very critical Ministry, and one thing that we have been fighting for, for a long time in this country is putting in place a comprehensive land policy that will address many of the issues that keep coming up in piecemeal. It has taken a long time until recently when the Cabinet eventually passed the Draft Policy. We believe that we are very fortunate as a country to have a reformist as a Minister in this very critical Ministry. We expect that having taken several years from 2004 where we have been pushing for this land policy, and the Cabinet having passed this land policy in the last few weeks, that the Minister will not take a long time in bringing a Sessional Paper that will bring affairs before this House the proposed land policy. We believe that the Motion moved by Mr. Kaino is a very important Motion and as we support it, we believe that some of the issues in this Motion are some of the issues that should be addressed in the proposed land policy.
We are expecting that over 46 years after Independence, we should have in place a comprehensive land policy that will deal with the issue of title deeds. It is a sad story that many years after we got our Independence, we still have many Kenyans without title deeds; many parts of this country are yet to be demarcated. From yesterdayâs presentation, we are informed that maybe, about eight provinces in this country have actually not been properly demarcated and title deeds issued. Yet, for the few that have received title deeds, you find that there are many people holding title deeds that are still bearing colonial names. In fact, I came across one old title deed for one of the farms in Trans Nzoia District. You will be surprised that this title deed still bears the emblem of the colonial British Government. Indeed, it says; âKnow all men by this presents that the Governor and Commander in Chief of Kenya on behalf of her most Gracious Majesty Queen Elizabeth II---â We still have colonial title deeds; an independent nation, Kenyans holding title deeds still in the names of former lords and royalties from the British colonial Government. We are urging this Minister that we must expedite the process of putting in place a land policy in this nation that will ensure that all title deeds held by Kenyans, not just in settlement schemes in certain parts, but all title deeds issued in Kenya should bear the name the Republic of Kenya and should not have any colonial epitaph. This is what we are urging. We are also urging that, indeed, there should be uniformity; not just in the types of title but also the policy should be able to address this issue to ensure that we also are able to consolidate our laws. You would be surprised how many laws are in place; how many statutes govern land ownership in this country, right from the colonial times. Referring to this old document, we had the Registration of Titles
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion as amended.
Indeed, there is need to harmonise our land ownership system. The multiplicity of laws that govern land have contributed greatly to the ills that go with the land ownership in this country. I will touch on a particular statute that has been used to marginalise our people. This is the Land Title Act. This was referred to as the âLand Title Ordinanceâ before Independence. This statute is only applicable in Coast Province; that is within the 10-mile coastal strip. The Land Title Ordinance was passed by the British Government primarily to dispossess the nations of the Miji Kenda people from their ancestral land. It was passed way back in 1902. During that period, Coast Province was under the command of the Sultan of Zanzibar. The British colony was given the mandate to administer the coastal area by the Sultan of Zanzibar. So, it was a protectorate. In 1902, the British Government passed the Land Title Ordinance. By then, slavery was at its peak. The Miji Kenda people who had settled within the 10- mile strip were forced to run away into the Nyika Plateau. They ran away from people who were looking for slaves. It was during that time that this Ordinance was passed. One of the provisions of this Ordinance was that people were given six months within which to lay their claim with the recorder of titles in Mombasa. The Miji Kenda people had run into the Nyika Plateau and had no knowledge of this Ordinance. The people who took advantage of this Ordinance were the Arabs who were not the indigenous people and had not settled within the 10-mile coastal strip. The claims that were made by the Arabs were fraudulent. One of the conditions for one to lay a claim with the recorder of titles was that you must have some plan within that area and had settled in the area. None of the claimants that laid claims in 1902 had constructive ownership or settlement of these areas. Therefore, most of the claims that were made in 1902 were fraudulently done and yet, the recorder of title approved those claims and titles were issued to mainly Arab settlers within the area. After slavery was abolished, the Miji Kenda left their hideouts and came down to repossess their ancestral land, only to find that title deeds had been issued to people who were not deserving. There began the problem of squatters at the Coast Province. Large chunks of land, all the way from Vanga to Lamu are owned by few people and none of them are indigenous Miji Kenda people. At Independence, the Government had a chance to put right the wrong that was done through the Land Title Ordinance. However, the Independence Government, instead of rejecting the titles that were otherwise fraudulently acquired by the Arabs authenticated the title deeds and, therefore, they became valid documents after Independence. That action by the Independence Government put the final nail on the agony of the Miji Kenda people.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support the Motion as amended. I want to start my contribution by entirely agreeing with the sentiments Mrs. Shabesh has made that âsmallâ people do not have rights to ownership of land in this country. It is true that the only people who are considered when it comes to land issuance are âbigâ people. These are people who own over 20,000 acres of land. None of the pieces of land that are owned by âbigâ people have ever been invaded by squatters. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also agree with Mr. Mbadi that the current Minister for Lands is a reformist who is very committed to land reforms. If land reforms will not be achieved during the tenure of Mr. Orengo as the Minister for Lands, then they will never be achieved. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is not the lease or an Act that is written on a piece of paper that will guarantee the ownership of land in this country. I want to tell my colleagues here that it is very important for us to obey the law in this country. If a farmer holds a 99 years leasehold title for a 5, 10, 20 or 30 acre piece of land and the law does not protect his ownership of that land, whatever reforms that we will bring in will be a waste of time. Today, we have farmers who have title deeds which have been sanctioned by the Minister for Lands and signed by the Commissioner of Lands and yet, they do not own those pieces of land. Those people worked hard and bought those pieces of land. Those people were forcefully evicted from their rightful pieces of land. That crime has been committed by Kenyans against their brothers and yet, we have a law in place that protects private ownership. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if I evict one of my colleagues here from his plot in Nairobi and occupy it because he is from Western Kenya or Coast and thus a âforeignerâ, we will not achieve any reforms. I want to urge my colleagues to obey the law that is in place. We should go back to the people that we represent and tell them that the laws about land must be respected first, even before we change them. We have the Ndungâu Report, which is still pending. That report has given the Government the
There being no other person willing to contribute, may I call upon the Mover to reply. He is not here and I will put the Question.
Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to move this Motion. Before I read the Motion, I would like to let the House know that, under the Standing Order No.48, I will amend the Motion by adding some words that I will read.
Hon. Affey, I need to have them as you read. Where are they? You are amending something that the Chair does not have.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I had informed the Chair. Let me read and then you will see whether it is fundamental or not.
Yes, you did inform the Chair, but we need it, please.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion.
THAT, noting the past and continued marginalization of the northern Kenya; aware that because of the prolonged neglect, the entire region has lagged behind in development compared to other parts of Kenya; cognizant of the fact that the inhabitants of the region are tax payers with equal human and legal rights like other Kenyans entitled to all the services provided by the Government, including adequate security and infrastructural facilities such as road network to open up the region; appreciating the efforts of the Grand Coalition Government in establishing the Ministry for the Development of Northern Kenya and other Arid Lands as a strategy to address these historical imbalances, this House urges the Minister for Finance to increase budgetary allocation to the Ministry of Development of Northern Kenya and Other Arid Lands to at least 15 per cent per annum of the Development Budget for the next decade, in line with the Governmentâs recent positive approach towards the development and transformation of this region.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I move this Motion knowing that it probably affects the entire population of Kenyan. This Motion is not intended for northern Kenya and other arid lands only, because nearly 75 per cent of the land mass of this country has been categorised as ASAL. Therefore, this Motion affects the people who live in Limuru, other parts of Central Kenya, parts of Eastern Province, parts of Rift Valley Province,
Mr. Affey, your time is up!
Hon. Members, that concludes the business on the Order Paper. Therefore, the House stands adjourned until this afternoon at 2.30 p.m.
The House rose at 12.30 p.m.