kumuuliza Waziri wa Utawala wa Mikoa na Usalama wa Ndani:- (a) Je, Waziri ana habari kuhusu vita kati ya jamii za Samburu na Pokot mnamo tarehe 7/8/2009 katika tarafa ya Poro, Wilayani Samburu, ambapo watu watatu walipoteza maisha, wanne kulazwa hospitalini na majeraha mabaya na mifugo kadhaa kuibwa? (b) Je, Serikali inachukua hatua gani kukomesha vita baina ya jamii hizi mbili, ambavyo vimeendelea kwa miaka mingi?

Ms. Leshoomo is not here! We will come back to the Question later. Next Question!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Education the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Does the Government consider regional balance in admitting students to public Teachers Training colleges? (b) Could the Minister lay on the Table the list, per-colleges of admission to public Teachers Training Colleges for the year 2009 and provide a breakdown of the admission on constituency basis?

The Minister for Education! The Minister is not here! Next Question!

Mr. Kioni is not here! Next Question!

asked the Minister for Lands:- (a) whether he could confirm that residents of Teldet and Kiboroa in Trans Nzoia West bought land but the same was subsequently reclaimed by the Government; and, (b) when the Government will either return the land, provide alternative land or compensate the residents.

Minister for Lands! The Minister is not here? Next Question!

asked the Minister for Higher Education, Science and Technology:- (a) to state the Government policy on the increasing university expansion in Kenya’s higher education sector where middle level institutions like colleges and other tertiary institutions are being abolished; and, (b) whether she could provide the names of middle level colleges that have been upgraded and those that are earmarked or have applied for upgrading.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) The policy of the Government in this sector is that we will not abolish tertiary colleges. (b) I will give the hon. Member the list of those which have been upgraded because, so far, our policy is not to upgrade any more tertiary colleges. They are:- 1. Kenya Polytechnic. 2. Mombasa Polytechnic. 3. Kimathi Institute of Technology. 4. Meru College of Technology. 5. Ukamba Agricultural Institute. 6. Bondo Teachers College. 7. Kilifi Institute of Agriculture.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2901 8. Kenya College of Communications Technology. 9. Narok Teachers Training College. 10. Egerton University, Chuka Campus. 11. Egerton University, Kisii Campus. 12. Taita Taveta Teachers College. 13. Kitui Teachers College. 14. Kabianga Farmers Training Centre. 15. Kenya Science Teachers College. 16. Laikipia Teachers Training College. Alupe Medical Training Centre has applied to be upgraded but this has still to go through the regular process. We will then know whether we are able to upgrade it or not.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank Waziri for assuring me that they have no plans to abolish the middle level colleges and other tertiary institutions. However, now that you have upgraded so many of them, what is the Minister doing to replace the same? We still need training in technical skills which have been offered by these colleges that you have now upgraded.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when I presented the budget for the Ministry of Higher Education, Science and Technology, I said that last year the Ministry tried to get funding from external sources to create new tertiary colleges. We also applied to the Treasury and got some modest funding to start new ones. We expect to do 13 new colleges within the next few years. The funding is quite well assured although it is not all in hand, we are quite confident. We have signed the necessary papers with the external funders. Please, note that not all the 16 colleges above were tertiary colleges. Some were teacher training colleges. They were surrendered by the relevant Ministry for those purposes. In fact, when they were surrendered to become campuses, the Ministry of Higher Education was not in the same docket with the Ministry of Science and Technology. Therefore, we are trying to do a little more than to replace and do a few more colleges. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are very well aware of the fact that we cannot expect to develop and have only 45,000 students in tertiary colleges when we have 170,000 in universities. It should be the other way round. We are very much aware and that is a life policy that the people I work with the Ministry are trying very hard to effect.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Minister for planning to create 13 new colleges. However, already there are many students who would have joined these colleges but because they have already been upgraded, they do not have a place to go to. What measures is the Minister putting in place to ensure that she expedites the construction of the same so that students do not suffer for long?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, no student who had been admitted has been kicked out of any college. This Ministry which creates universities has been in existence for just over a year. If in that time we have sought and received funding to do 13 new colleges, I think the Member should give us a pat on the back. Nevertheless, we are very much aware and are conscious of the fact that the students in tertiary colleges should be more than the ones in university. We also expect to shepherd this in future so that if need be, rather than abolish tertiary colleges, we build a university with the tertiary part of it being dominant. Indeed, this is how some of the most

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2902 famous universities in the world have come up. Regrettably, I cannot promise you that we will admit students this year. we hope to start building these colleges as soon as is practicable and, certainly, before the end of the financial year.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I wish to congratulate the Minister for creating more universities. But we believe that this should not be at the expense of tertiary colleges. In Kitale, we have the Kitale Technical Institute. We have been wishing to have a university there. Is it not possible to upgrade the facility to a university and still retain that technical aspect?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is a problem there for the Ministry of Higher Education, Science and Technology. When I first said that we could no longer turn tertiary institutions into universities, I got many visitors and not only the Member who spoke. Many people are still asking why we are stopping them from having their own universities. We know, we are aware and we respond to that. I cannot tell you that we have resources today to build tertiary schools and also turn them to universities. Currently, universities are struggling but our aim is to build those tertiary institutions to a level where they can also offer degrees. At the moment, we are fighting hard and struggling to get funding to replace what we have lost. As I said, we have received modest response in terms of finance from the Treasury, basically, because we know how limited our resources are. However, we went beyond that. The hon. Member was probably not here when I presented the budget for the Ministry. We are looking at the Chinese to assist. We have a possibility to get even the equipment. The issue is not just about buildings. I am, personally, worried today that we have institutions today whose equipment for technical facilities is not up to date, is old and has been there for many years. It is obsolete. We are trying to get support. We have support from the African Development Bank (ADB). We have negotiated with three other governments for support. We are trying to get the legislators also to help us to pass the message that the country cannot develop without proper technical training or higher education. Every country must have an elite force that will drive development. So, we will talk about the Vision 2030 until we go blank on the face without doing anything if we do not expand the level of training that can push industries. This is what we are trying to do and we are very much aware of the situation. I would like to ask hon. Members to help me to continuously push for better university education and when we can, we will seek to offer more degrees. Given Kenya’s population, we should be training more than just 170,000 students in our public universities.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I know that the Ministry is doing a lot to assist in areas such as the youth polytechnics because they are offering free tuition. We also have the Higher Education’s Loans Board (HELB) which helps students with loans. However, what are they doing to assist students who are undergoing courses in tertiary institutions? They seem not to have any plans to assist such students and yet, we still need these students as she has put it to us.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, may I use this moment to inform the hon. Member that youth polytechnics are under another Ministry, but we will pass his wonderful sentiments to them. As for tertiary education, I would like to inform the Member that we offer bursaries to tertiary students through the institutions themselves and that has always been the case. We have increased it since last year because we are aware that they need support. We do not assist them through the HELB because that is governed by an Act of Parliament. However, we have a separate fund for tertiary schools which is administered by the schools themselves.

Let us go back to Question No.1 by Private Notice, hon. Leshoomo! Mhe. Leshoomo, utaomba Bunge msamaha kwanza kabla ya kuuliza swali lako.

Asante sana, Naibu wa Spika. Ningependa kuomba msamaha. Nimechelewa barabarani.

Bw. Naibu Spika, naomba kumuuliza Waziri wa Utawala wa Mikoa na Usalama wa Ndani Swali la Dharura lifuatalo. (a) Je, Waziri ana habari kuhusu vita kati ya jamii za Samburu na Pokot vilivyotokea mnamo tarehe 7.8.2009 katika tarafa ya Poro, Wilayani Samburu, ambapo watu watatu walipoteza maisha yao, wanne kulazwa hospitalini na majeraha mabaya na mifugo kadhaa kuibwa?

(b) Je, Serikali inachukua hatua gani kukomesha vita baina ya jamii hizi mbili ambavyo vimeeendelea kwa miaka mingi?

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I thought that once you skip a Question, you go to the end because we are also waiting to answer Questions?

Order! Order! You do not run the business of the House! That is the responsibility of the Chair. Mr. Keter, you are an Assistant Minister in the Ministry. Do that job very well! Proceed, Mr. Ojode!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to indulge the Chair to allow me to answer this Question on Tuesday next week because I need to get some facts on the ground. Thank you.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

Mheshimiwa Leshoomo, Waziri Msaidizi anaomba apewe muda zaidi kwa sababu hana majibu yanayofaa. Umekubali?

Bw. Naibu Spika, sijasikia kile alichosema. Ningeomba arudie.

Waziri Msaidizi, naomba urudie katika lugha ya Kiswahili kwa sababu Swali limeulizwa katika lugha hiyo.

Bw. Naibu Spika, naomba kujibu Swali hili wiki ijayo kwa sababu bado nina subiri kupata majibu kutoka kwa maafisa wa polisi walio mashinani.

Bw. Naibu Spika, nimekubali lakini ningeomba asichukulie jambo hili ambalo linahusu vifo vya watu kama jambo lisilo na maana.

Bw. Waziri Msaidizi, utalijibu Swali hilo Jumanne wiki ijayo.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise again to ask the Minister for Education the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Does the Government consider regional balancing when admitting students to public Teacher Training Colleges? (b) Could the Minister lay on the Table the list per-college, of admission to public Teacher Training Colleges for the year 2009 and provide a breakdown of the admissions on constituency basis?

Hon. Assistant Minister for Education, the Chair has time and again told Ministers that they have to take their jobs seriously. Could you apologize to the House before you answer the Question?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was going to start by doing that. I apologize for coming late. I request that I be given time up to tomorrow to give an answer to this Question because it only got to my office on Monday afternoon and yesterday was a public holiday. Therefore, we could not compile an answer. By tomorrow, I will have an answer.

Mr. Mwaita, is it okay if the Question is deferred to tomorrow afternoon?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Question is very urgent because the intake to colleges is ongoing. They are about to report. I thought that this afternoon would be suitable.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

The Order Paper for the afternoon is already out. Hon. Assistant Minister, this is a Question by private Notice. The Chair directs that the Question appears on the Order Paper tomorrow afternoon.

Is Mr. Kioni out of the country on Parliamentary business, or where is he? That Question is dropped.

asked the Minister for Lands:- ( a) whether he could confirm that residents of Teldet and Kiboroa in Trans Nzoia West bought land, but the same was subsequently reclaimed by the Government; and, (b) when the Government will either return the land, provide alternative land or compensate the residents.

Minister for Lands! Here is an Assistant Minister again who comes late to answer Questions!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, First of all, I beg to apologize for coming late. Secondly, I beg to seek the indulgence of the House to answer this Question on Tuesday. I have consulted the Questioner because there is certain information that I need to clarify.

Mr. Kapondi, are you comfortable with the Assistant Minister’s request?

Much obliged, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

When do you want the Question to appear on the Order Paper?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, next week will be okay.

It is so directed; Wednesday morning, next week.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

The Question by hon. Warugongo is deferred to Wednesday next week in the afternoon. Hon. Warugongo has already communicated to the Chair.

asked the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security:- (a) why the pension dues to Inspector Benson Juma (APN/PC 214671), who died on 10th January, 2003, have not been paid; and, (b) when the payment will be made.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I seek the indulgence of this House to have this Question deferred because I do not have a satisfactory answer at the moment. I have already discussed that with Mr. Outa and he has agreed with me.

Mr. Outa, the Assistant Minister has said that he is not happy with the answer that he has. What do you say about that?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have consulted and he has agreed to look for that money in the next few weeks.

The Question is deferred to Tuesday next week in the afternoon.

asked the Minister for Agriculture:- (a) why Sony and Nzoia sugar companies have not refunded the 2 per cent sugar levy to farmers to date and, further, why Nzoia Sugar company failed to remit the 1 per cent levy payable to the Kenya National Sugar-cane Growers Union; and, (b) what he is doing to address the issues raised above and ensure that the Sugar Tribunal operates efficiently to settle such disputes.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.

(a) There is no outstanding Presumptive Tax (2 per cent Sugar Levy) with Nzoia Sugar Company. Sony Sugar Company has processed all payments due to farmers. But some farmers have not collected their refunds. Nzoia Sugar Company has not been remitting the 1 per cent levy to Kenya National Sugar-cane Growers Union as there is no contractual obligation between the two organizations. (b) Kenya National Sugar-cane Growers Union enters into contractual obligations with sugar millers. It is a private affair. However, I have taken measures to ensure that the Sugar Arbitration Tribunal addresses disputes that may arise efficiently. Those measures include:- (i) Funding the Tribunal operations. (ii) Providing support staff. (iii) Other logistics, for example, transport and office facilities. (iv) Facilitation by field officers in Nyanza, Western and Coast provinces.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am very disappointed with the answer from the Assistant Minister because more than Kshs19 million has not been paid to farmers. Could he confirm that, that levy was abandoned in 2002? If he claims that farmers have been paid, could he provide documentary evidence showing remittance of the cheques by both Sony and Nzoia sugar companies to those farmers? He should also show us a schedule with the names of the farmers who have not been paid. In part (b), although he has said that there is no contractual obligation between the companies and the out-growers union, why, then, are the sugar companies deducting the 1 per cent? What are they doing with it?

i: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first, I would like to confirm to the hon. Member that, that taxation was stopped in 2003. With regard to the Kshs19 million that the Member has mentioned, that money was remitted to various commercial banks. I have a schedule showing the payment by Nzoia Sugar Company. The first cheque - Cheque No.026934 for Kshs10,047,106.35 - was issued on 24th October, 2008. The second cheque was issued on 18th November, 2008. It was Cheque No.026969. The names of the farmers who were paid are listed here. I will lay the list on the Table, so that the hon. Member can look at it. A total of Kshs14,085,454 has already been paid. Nzoia Sugar Company has not remitted the 1 per cent levy to the Kenya National Sugar-cane Growers Union. As I said, there is no contractual obligation between the two parties. However, Nzoia Sugar Company pays its growers fortnightly.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a very serious issue. I am informed by the Union that a total of 13,000 farmers from Sony Sugar Company and 40,000 farmers from Nzoia Sugar Company have not been refunded that levy. That is a total of 53,000 farmers. Is the Assistant Minister willing to sit with me and the officials of those companies and go through the list so that he can assist in the remittance of the levies to those 53,000 farmers, who I am very sure have not been paid? Secondly, if there is no

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2908 contractual agreement, why has the 1 per cent been deducted? On whose behalf is it deducted, if not on behalf of the Union? To which banks has that money been given? The money does not belong to the banks. It belongs to the farmers and they have remitted it to their Union, which does not get the money.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as the hon. Member has requested, I am ready to sit with her and the officials of those companies, so that we can go through that list to identify farmers who have not been paid. We have been putting some advertisements in the newspapers and on the radio requesting the farmers to collect their funds. However, they have not come forward. But, that notwithstanding, I am ready to sit with the hon. Member and the officials of the companies to go through the list.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Now that the Assistant Minister has agreed to sit down with the Questioner, could I request that this Question be deferred until we agree?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I have said, we have been calling those people to come and collect their money. Many of them have not come forward. If we go through this list and find out that there are some farmers who have not come, you can ask another Question. What is the need of deferring the Question?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the money that is owed to 53,000 farmers of both Sony and Nzoia sugar companies is monumental. Therefore, the Assistant Minister should not find it difficult to have the Question deferred so that we can verify the list. With regard to part (b) of the Question, which relates to the Sugar Tribunal, could the Assistant Minister consider decentralizing the Tribunal and have it sit at the location of the sugar companies or nearby? Currently, farmers are being punished because they have to travel all the way to Kisumu and others to Nairobi. As a result, dues owed to the farmers by both Sony and Nzoia sugar companies remain pending for years on end. Could the Assistant Minister tell us how many cases are pending before that Tribunal?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have no knowledge of the pending cases because that is a different Question. However, I will consider the issue of decentralizing the tribunal.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in this year’s Budget, the Ministry of Agriculture allocated Kshs5.1 million to the Sugar Tribunal. How does the Ministry expect the tribunal to solve disputes for the whole year with only Kshs5.1 million?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is common knowledge to every hon. Member that we do not have enough funds. Even the Ministry of Agriculture is underfunded. In order for us to do our work properly we needed more money. However, we got very little and we allocated it to every sector in the Ministry of Agriculture.

Last question, Ms. Karua!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Chair consider deferring the final answer on the dues? Could the Chair give me one week to sit down with the Assistant Minister with the papers I have from the union, considering the fact that 53,000 sugarcane farmers are complaining about the refund of their levy and since this is a matter of national importance? All I am asking for is one week, if the Assistant Minister has nothing to hide.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I confirm to the hon. Member that I have nothing to hide as far as this Question is concerned. I am ready to deal with that part where she has requested to be given one week. We will sit down and go through the issue.

Mr. Assistant Minister, although you have tried very hard to give an answer that is elaborate and final, nonetheless, you insist on being given another week. There is no way the Question can be revisited on the Floor of the House unless it is deferred to that week. Under the circumstances, the Chair has no option other than to direct that the Question appears on the Order Paper on Thursday, next week. This cannot be in piecemeal!

Next Question, by Mr. Ombui!

asked the Minister for Regional Development Authorities:-

(a) to state the criteria the Ministry uses to establish Regional Development Authorities as well as the number of Development Authorities the Ministry has created since inception; and,

(b) whether he could consider establishing a development authority in Nyamira North.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.

(a) The Ministry of Regional Development Authorities was established by the Kenya Government under the Presidential Circular No.3/2003 on the organization of Government with a mandate to provide policy guidance, enhance capacity building and support for regional development authorities. In a step towards enhancing balanced regional development, the Government has since the 1970s created six regional development authorities which operate under six different Acts of Parliament as indicated below:-

(i) The Tana and Athi River Development Authority (TARDA) Act, Cap.443, 1974;

(ii) The Kerio Valley Development Authority (KVDA) Act, Cap.441, 1979;

(iii) The Lake Basin Development Authority (LBDA) Act, Cap.442, 1979;

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I take this opportunity to thank the Assistant Minister for the answer he has given. However, I would like him to tell the House the major activities that are carried out by the Lake Basin Development Authority. Could he also tell us how many of those activities fall under Nyamira North and Borabu districts?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have said earlier on that Nyamira North District falls under the Lake Basin Development Authority. This is a very fast developing authority and it covers a very big area. The Lake Basin Development Authority has actually established seven regional offices to cover all the areas within its jurisdiction. It is good for the hon. Member to note that Nyamira North District and Nyamira South District have got two regional offices with regional managers, staff and vehicles. One of the regional offices is based at Sondu River Basin and the other one at Kuja/Migori River Basin. The Headquarters for the latter is at Kerina. The activities that the Lake Basin Development Authority has been carrying in Nyamira North District are as follows:-

(i) We have undertaken several demonstration farms for agro-forestry, under a project called “Sironga”. This project was started in 1981 and has been on-going. We have been producing quality bricks for quality building. Environmental conservation is also being done through the production of tree seedlings. There has also been improved rural income totaling Kshs2 million through the promotion of high quality fruit and tea seedlings.

(ii) We also have some fisheries projects, including fish ponds that are used to train farmers. There is also demonstration of poultry activities. We propose to start an upland rice project this financial year because a demonstration has been done and the climate has been found to be very good.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

Ask the last question, Mr. Ombui!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like the Assistant Minister to appreciate the fact that we do not have Nyamira South District. We only have Nyamira North District and Nyamira District. Could he state the future activities that will be carried out within Nyamira North District by the Lake Basin Development Authority?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the regional development activities rely heavily on Ex-chequer funding. This funding has been limited with respect to the activities the regional development authorities would like to undertake. For the Lake Basin Development Authority and in respect to Nyamira North District, besides the two ongoing projects, during this financial year, we would like to set up a rice project within the District. The climate has been found to be conducive and a demonstration has already been done. We hope that with the proposed budget, we are going to undertake that rice project within Nyamira North District.

Ms. S. Abdallah is not here!

asked the Minister for Roads:- (a) to state when he will upgrade Lanet-Dondori Road to bitumen standards; and, (b) when the works will commence and the estimated date of completion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) My Ministry has started the design of Lanet-Dondori Road C69 with the view of upgrading it to bitumen standards. I may also want to indicate there that I have extended the design work from Dondori to Oljororok so that it is one stretch of road. (b) My Ministry has allocated in this Budget, Kshs100 million for this road and the construction is expected to commence immediately the design and documentation is completed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I want to thank the Minister for allocating this road Kshs100 million, I would like to say that the amount is small considering that he has extended the road to Oljororok which will be almost 50 kilometres. Could he tell this House how he intends to use the Kshs100 million because I was only asking about the stretch between Lanet and Dondori?

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the road is extended to Oljororok because it is an agricultural area and those people of Oljororok need a road that is as good as that of Lanet to Dondori. Construction of a road does not take one day. I expect to consequently be planning to allocate more money to this road as construction continues in the years to come because it will be funded from our own Government resources.

Last question, Mr. Gaichuhie!

Order, hon. Members! The hon. Member has a right to be heard. Consult in low tones! Proceed, Mr. Gaichuhie.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Minister. However, since the work is already going on between Kinangop and Dondori centre, could he assure this House that he is going to award the contract to the same contractor so that the work can be finished urgently since he is already on site at Dondori.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is a very interesting proposal. I want to assure the hon. Member that at the right time, we will be able to procure a contractor in accordance with our tendering system. We cannot allocate that contractor that job just because he is on site. We would like to follow some procedures which are prescribed in the relevant laws of the country.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not have a written answer to my Question.

asked the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government:- (a) to state how much funds were allocated for the construction of Kitui Municipal Council Bus Park; how much of the funds have been utilized and what percentage of the works has been completed so far; and, (b) what steps the Ministry is taking to ensure the bus park is completed promptly.

Is the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government not here?

The Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government will not transact business in this House unless he is able to give a very good answer for not being available today and also apologize to this House.

That Question is deferred to next week on Wednesday.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not trying to challenge your ruling but I would have wished that the Question be prioritized and be put on the Order Paper tomorrow because of the inconvenience the people of Kitui are suffering because of this bus park.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

The Question cannot appear on tomorrow’s Order Paper because the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government has to come to the House, approach the Chair and give a very good explanation why he is not able to transact business here.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Order! The Chair directs that this Question appears on the Order Paper on Tuesday next week.

asked the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security:- (a)what urgent steps he is taking to correct the situation at Pap- Onditi Police Station where the Officer Commanding Station (OCS) operates in a single office, which also serves both as the police cell and the armoury; and, (b) when the Ministry will provide sufficient funding for the construction of staff houses and administration block at Papa-Onditi Police Station.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) It is true that the OCS Pap-Onditi operates in a single unihut which serves as the report office, it also holds the amoury still box and a radio room. However, this financial year, the Police Department was allocated inadequate funds towards developing police housing and accommodation. It might not be possible to change the current situation immediately. (b) Plans to put up modern facilities for both office and housing accommodation at this station are captured in our ten-year development plan and if adequate funds will be allocated by the Government, the facilities will be constructed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has evaded one very important question here. The unihut that the OCS operates from also serves as a police cell. However, this police station was constructed in 1964 and since then, it has never been upgraded to a modern police station. Could he tell me when he is likely to do that.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would have considered this particular station for the construction of houses but we do not have enough funds. I ask the hon. Member to bear with us for some time and if we have enough funds, it will be prioritized. In the meantime, we will provide some unihut as a stop-gap measure in order for services to continue. I have also spoken to him and we agreed that we look for some stop-gap measure for the continuity of the services within that particular station.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, going by the promise by the good Assistant Minister, that there are stop-gap measures of housing the police, and since this problem is not only in Pap-Onditi but also in Limuru and other areas, is he able to provide unihuts as a stop-gap measure for housing of police as at now in other stations?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, to a considerable extent, when there is need, yes, we can provide unihuts to alleviate some of these problems. So, if the hon. Member wants to put a request, I will consider it on its own merit.

Last question, Mr. Ochieng!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could he confirm when he is likely to release the unihut to Pap-Onditi Police Station?

How soon can we have the unihuts now that they are stop- gap measures and the urgency is there?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as soon as he writes to us that he needs the unihuts.

asked the Minister for Roads:- (a) if he could confirm that part of Orinie-Kapsetek-Nakurtakwei Road runs on private property; and, (b) what plans he has to compensate the affected farmers, considering that the road has now been blocked by the farmers.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.

(a) I confirm that the access road between Orinie and Muserech measuring 1.8 kilometres is on private property, on private land. (b) My Ministry, therefore, has no plans to compensate the affected farmers since the road section in question was opened by those farmers for their own use. Therefore, it does not belong to the Ministry of Roads.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank the hon. Minister for his answer to this Question. Basically, all rural roads are for use by farmers. He is actually confirming that this road was opened for the convenience of farmers. This road has been existing since Independence. I want to believe that these farmers must be compensated.

Hon. Lessonet, please, ask your question!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if this road is blocked, does the Minister have an alternative route for these farmers?

Hon. Minister, all roads are for the convenience of Kenyans.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I agree, but they are not necessarily under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Roads. I pity the hon. Member. There is a loop under the control of the Ministry of Roads. That loop is three kilometres. The farmers abandoned that original loop and created a route for their own convenience. I want to assure this House that my Ministry has put aside Kshs700,000 to improve on the original loop. That

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2915 road will be more useful to more farmers than the shorter version which is only benefiting a few farmers.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank the Minister for the good work he is doing in our Republic. Could he consider upgrading Kibunja Junction to Molo Town Road? At the moment, it is in dilapidated condition. Many people have been---

Hon. Member for Molo, Questions are asked specifically. It is unfair for you to ask a Question on Molo when the Question at hand relates to Orinie-Kapsetek-Nakurtakwei Road. Could you, please, ask a question on the same road?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Minister consider upgrading Kibunja Junction to Molo Town Road?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I notice your concern. However, hon. Members are equally concerned with roads in their areas. I want to assure them that my Ministry will do everything possible within its financial limitations to upgrade roads in the whole Republic. I further urge them to properly budget money available to them in DRC and prioritise roads in their areas. Yes, for the specific section the Member of Parliament for Molo has mentioned; that is Kibunja Junction to Molo Town, I want to assure him and the House that my Ministry has allocated some money in the Budget to upgrade Kibunja-Molo-Olenguruoni Road. We are paying attention to that road.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to inform the hon. Minister that in the past financial year, his Ministry spent over Kshs4 million on this particular road which he now intends to abandon. He intends to use Kshs700,000 on a loop which I have not seen since I come from there. How does he intend to utilize the Kshs4 million on this particular road? I thought he could utilize it better by compensating farmers and constructing the road for the convenience of them.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to indicate that I have a feeling that the hon. Member is misleading the House. He is a member of the DRC and that road was maintained by the DRC. I want to believe that maybe, he is talking of Kshs400,000 which could have been used to maintain that road.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I think it is not in order for the Minister to indicate that I am misleading the House while we actually required emergency funds from his Ministry and not the DRC. We got Kshs4 million from his Ministry to continue improvement of this road. In fact, if he were to drive on that road, there is even a very clear sign board indicating the amount of money used and the sponsor of this road which he purports to be an illegal road. He is not in order to tell this House that I am misleading this House.

Order, hon. Member. It is not for an hon. Member to rule another hon. Member or a Minister out of order. That is the responsibility of the Chair. But nonetheless, hon. Minister can you clarify this matter.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for coming to my protection. I think the hon. Member was trying to usurp your role.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member is making a very strong and powerful allegation which touches on the integrity on the part of my officers. I take this issue seriously. I will institute an investigation. I will also hold the hon. Member responsible if I find that the information given to me is not true.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The hon. Minister has added value to this particular question. I want to request that since he is going to get more information, could the Chair, therefore, defer this Question?

Hon. Minister, the Chair has no other option than to defer this Question to another date, when would you will be in a position to have information with you to answer this Question?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have no objection to your ruling. Any day, next week will be okay.

Fair enough!The Question will appear on the Order Paper on Wednesday morning, next week.

Next Question, Mr. Lagat.

asked the Minister for Energy:- (a) why the Kaptildil/Karlel electricity project has stalled ; and, (b) when the project will resume.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.

(a) Kaptildil/Karlel Electricity Project has not stalled. There was a delay in the completion of this project. As I talk right now, transformers were installed on Friday and the whole line was energised.

(b) This project was in two phases. The first phase which was funded by French Phase 11 was going up to Kaptildil. The second phase of the project which has already started is to Karlel, all the way to Kosrai. I want to assure the hon. Member that we are going to do the second part of the project up Karlel –Kosirai this financial year.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this project from Kaptidil–Karlel has had holes dug last year December and poles delivered. However, later on, the Ministry took the poles. If it is in second phase, why has it taken one year to complete and why were the poles taken away?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have been personally to the said project sometimes back. I want to assure the hon. Member that the poles which were taken away were not the right sizes for that project. I want to given an assurance that this financial year commencing September, the remaining part of the project will be completed. I want to give him that assurance.

Fair enough. The Assistant Minister has given an assurance.

Proceed, Mr. Pesa! I hope it is on Kaptildil–Karlel Project

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is partly on that, but I think this a national issue.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to assure this House that the issue of transformers has been taken care of. There was a problem in the purchasing of the transformers because there has been a lot of vandalism. We give priority to the projects which have been energized when they are vandalized. That has impacted negatively on the ongoing projects. I want to assure this House that we have taken care of that and beginning September, most of the projects which have stalled, we will finish them by September/October.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all, I want to thank the Assistant Minister for the Kaptildil project because I think that is now serving the people. But that is what has become a language when he says it is starting in October because normally, he has been telling me that it starts “next month”. What assurance is he going to give me today because that has been the language since the beginning of this year?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to state again that this project will start this year. It will be among the projects which the hon. Member has forwarded, namely; Kapkuto Market, Kaptel Market, Kamurguiywa Market Dispensary, Kipture market, secondary, dispensary, water project, Talai Water Project and Karlel Dispensary, all the way to Kosirai costing the Government about Kshs17.5 million. So, I know the hon. Member has been asking me but I want to assure him and the people of Emgwen that the project will start.

The Minister for Youth Affairs and Sports, Prof. Sambili, can you make your Statement?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity. I would like to make a brief Statement on the performance of Kenya at the 12th IAAF world athletic championships in Berlin---

Order, Mr. Lagat! Listen to the Minister! She deserves to be heard.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the 12th IAAF World Championships held in Berlin started on 15th and ended on 23rd August, 2009. These championships were very competitive but our

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2918 sportsmen and women did Kenya proud and Kenya was ranked third in the world behind the USA and Jamaica. Kenya was ranked first in Africa.

There were a total of 213 countries represented. So, these sportsmen and women really worked very hard. They achieved 11 medals, four gold, five silver and two bronze which, indeed, confirms Kenya’s supremacy in athletics. Notable achievements were those in 10,000 metres in women where Linet Masai won gold after 12 years. The last time Kenya had won competition was in 1997 but this girl managed to beat the Ethiopians who had monopolized this particular race as well as the 5,000 metres where the girls and the boys, through their team-work which was excellent, managed to out-maneuver their competitors.

I would like to say that there was excellent teamwork; we had support from even hon. Members of this House and members from different parts in this country, people who love sport and the athletes are very determined. They are real patriots!

We take this opportunity to thank the sponsors, particularly the New KCC that accompanied the team to Berlin and even took milk, only that the Germans did not know what the yoghurt was, so they said they could not accept it. But the New KCC did us great support. So, following this excellent performance, I take this opportunity to also inform the House that Kenya has been given the opportunity to host the 17th Senior African Athletics Championships next year and all the African countries will be here. I want to end this Statement by asking this House to join me in congratulating the team that represented our country in the World Championships in Berlin.

Thank you.

Indeed, our sportsmen and women have done us proud and the House takes note of that and appreciates that.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to also join the Minister in congratulating our athletes who have supremely performed. The clarification I would seek from the Minister is a very simple one. The North African countries, and I want to mention Morocco, Mauritania and other countries, if an athlete wins a gold, there is an automatic expectation of, at least, a Mercedez Benz worth Kshs5 million. In Ethiopia also, the government compensates the athletes. Here in Kenya, why can the Minister not consider making it standard that the gold medalists, apart from whatever they get, they would get Kshs1 million, the silver medalists, Kshs750,000 and the bronze medalists, Kshs500,000, tax free?

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2919 This is because just 11 medals have given us such world fame. We are giving them nothing apart from a promotion to a Sergeant. This is not fair! The Minister can do something about it. Why can “he” not do it immediately?

Can she! It is a “she”!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I apologize. Can she do it?

We will take one more clarification and then you can do both.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me also join hands with the Minister in congratulating our athletes for doing us very proud as a country and I would like to thank her in person for accompanying the teams every other time they are out there. I want to encourage her to keep up the same. I have two clarifications. First, as a result of the good performance by the Kenyan athletes, our athletes are becoming a wanted group by other countries which also want to do well. You noted in Berlin that the majority of the athletes who did well were Kenyans but using other countries’ names. The reason is what Mr. Mungatana has mentioned, the motivation to our athletes. What is she doing about it?

Secondly, we note with concern that most of those athletes train on their own. In my own constituency, every morning, we find athletes running on the road on their own, most of them bare feet, and they end up becoming world champions. What is the Minister doing to ensure that we provide athletes with training facilities, gear and areas across the country, especially in our areas where we are proud to produce the majority?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to congratulate our athletes for making this country proud in the just concluded World Athletic Championships that were held in Berlin. I would like to thank all those who contributed to the success of our athletes.

However, I would like to seek a clarification from the Ministry. Why are our athletes not given the necessary support, particularly the new ones who want to join the re-knowned ones? This is because you will find the new athletes struggling to join the team to represent Kenya. It is like they are not noticed and there is no provision to welcome them on board. Could the Ministry set standards which will enable these athletes to be noticed? These athletes should be helped because they appear to be struggling to come on board.

Mr. Lagat, the Chair takes note of the fact that you are a former world champion!

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I was planning to read out my Curriculum Vitae (CV). I ran the fastest in the world marathon competition in 1997. I also won the Boston Marathon and represented Kenya in the Sidney Olympics in 2000.

There are some events that we lost in the just concluded World Athletics Championships held in Berlin because of poor tactics. For example, in the 1,500 metres, Asbel Kiprop had a chance to win a gold medal but the problem was that he stayed behind up to the last minute. He believed in himself, but that was a new tactic he was applying at the expense of clinching the world championship. I do not know what the Minister will do about this.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would also like to congratulate the Minister for her passion the sports. I congratulate her for supporting athletics. I would also like to congratulate the medalists who performed well and made Kenya proud.

What has the Minister done to use sports and athletics in particular, to heal this country? In the USA, Michael Jordan was adored just because he was a player. He would be used to rally the entire country. What has the Minister done with regard to this?

Secondly, given the fact that cattle rustling is rampant among the Pokot, Turkana and the Samburu and since we know that the rustlers run through bushes and thickets which is not steeplechase, could the Minister tap that talent so that those cattle rustlers can run in world races instead of butchering each other in the bushes?

We will have the final clarifications from Mr. Wambugu, Maj-Gen. Nkaisserry and then Eng. Gumbo.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Minister for the good work she has done. She led our good team to Berlin and they performed well. Even with all the good work, I know this country can do far much better, especially if we put in more effort in tapping the talent that lies in the people who live in the eastern side of the Aberdares. We have fantastic athletes from there. We have very good training facilities at a place called “Gatiku” in Mathioya. This facility has never been used, although it is almost on top of the Aberdares. Could the Minister tell us what she has done to facilitate the people of Mathioya so that they can also participate in the forthcoming athletics championships in other countries?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, may I also take this opportunity to congratulate our athletes who made this country proud. I would also like to congratulate the Athletics Association of Kenya (AAK) for its good leadership, the New KCC for the sponsorship and the

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2921 police. Out of the 11 medals that this country won, the police force brought nine medals. That shows good leadership and I would like to commend the police as well as the Administration Police (AP). We need to tap the talent of our youth in other institutions such as our universities. I request the Minister to expand the Kshs1 million that has been set aside in every constituency to promote football to cover all the sports. Equally, I urge hon. Members to match a shilling for a shilling when it comes to the CDF money so that we can improve sports in this country.

As a parliamentary champion, I would like to request my friends like Mr. Mungatana, who used to beat me in cross-country races once in a while--- I was in Berlin with my friend Mr. Pesa and we talked to our athletes. We need to keep this up because a fit nation is a healthy nation. Our sportsmen have shown this to the world.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to join my colleagues in congratulating the Kenyan team through the Minister for Sports and Youth Affairs for a job well done. They put Kenya in the third position out of 213 countries.

One of my happiest and proudest moments as a Kenyan was in 1988 when the Kenyan team came back from the Seoul Olympics with five gold medals. This City came to a standstill the day Paul Ereng won the gold medal in the 800 metres race. There were no mobile phones at that time and I remember us queuing at a telephone booth at the Kenyatta International Conference Centre (KICC) trying to call the Kenya Broadcasting Corporation (KBC) which was then known as the “Voice of Kenya (VoK)” just to congratulate Mr. Paul Ereng. Mr. Kariuki won the gold in the 3,000 steeplechase race while Peter Rono won gold in the 1,500 metres. John Ngugi won gold in the 5,000 metres race. When the late Wangila Napunyi won the only gold medal in a non-track event, this country virtually came to a standstill. It was great joy the following year when William Tanui won a gold medal in Barcelona. I was watching the race on my 14-inch black and white television and I almost pushed the guy to win because it was really a dash for the finish.

These are heroes of this country. Anybody who saw Linet Maasai beat the Ethiopian in the 10,000 metres to win gold would tell you that it was wonderful. It made us proud to be Kenyans. Indeed, what that young girl did, to me, it means that if you put all the four billion women in the world to run 10,000 metres at that moment in time, she would have beaten all of them. These are achievers. These are the heroes of this country. However, what pains me most is that the other day I went to a bank at Yaya Centre and William Tanui, a world beater was there but nobody noticed him, and yet there were people in the banking hall. I was curious because nobody seemed to take notice of this man.

I asked: Do you know this man? Nobody knew him. I asked the same question to five people. My question to the Minister is--- Those are heroes. Those are the people who make Kenyans proud. When we see them conquering the world, we forget about our tribes. In fact, to me, the only way to heal the cancer of tribalism is to

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2922 promote sports. What is the Minister doing to make sure that people who have conquered the world will never live in want, are highly regarded and will forever remain the heroes of this nation? Secondly, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the reason why Kenya cannot beat America in the medals table is because our strength up to now has been exclusively on the tracks. As I said, up to now, only Napunyi remains the only non track gold medalist in this country. We have the opportunity. When we were young, we used to do boat racing. In fact, one of the most attractive sports in my place is boat racing, which we do annually. Why are we not promoting that sport? We are naturally suited to compete in that sport to increase our medal tally? Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Hon. Minister, proceed and---

On a point of Order, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir.

Order, Mr. Koech. Is it a serious point of order? You know the Chair has dispensed with all the rules because of the excitement that this country is in. The Chair shares in that very much. But let us all support our sportsmen and women.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity. This is a day that Kenyans want to celebrate. The performance of Kenya being not only number three in the world, but as number one in Africa---

In South Africa, which had only two gold medals and one silver - of course, one gold is in dispute - the President, himself, was on hand to receive the two gold medalists. I think hon. Members are willing to contribute more on this matter and, under Standing Order number 20, I wish to move a Motion of Adjournment so that more Members could contribute and make this country a sporting nation. I seek your indulgence

Order, hon. Members. Indeed, the Chair shares the joy of this country with a lot of excitement. We also have our own basic rules under our Standing Orders, as well as the practice of the House. You should have approached the chair a bit earlier! Two hours earlier! That is the time required to put in such a request. That is how our rules are. But, nonetheless, the Chair is going to allow a few more Members to contribute for another ten minutes .

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. Again, this is the time to congratulate our athletes and all those who were behind the organization of the team. I would like to make a proposal that, as much as we are going to set up educational centres of excellence in every constituency, we should also think of establishing centres of

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2923 excellence for sports in every constituency. That way, we will have a cross section of performers, as has been alluded to by my colleagues. We have very many talents that are hidden and if opportunities are given, we would raise boxers, boat rowers and all sorts of athletes. As one of the Assistant Ministers in the Ministry of Education, I will strongly support the setting up of centres of excellence at primary school level; leave alone secondary school so that, young people like Linet – who got a gold medal at a very tender age – could get an opportunity. So, when those proposals will come to the House, we will have an opportunity to support them. We will have a base to raise our athletic performers. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I take this opportunity to congratulate the great men and women of this country who have brought us pride and glory. As we congratulate them, I wish to take this opportunity to thank, particularly, the people of Rift Valley, for giving us all those medals and for raising the flag of Kenya very high. This is a rare achievement. We have been consistent in that achievement for many years. What we have not been very consistent on are the results of the performance by the Government. In terms of allocating resources to that sector in our country--- If the South Africa team, with only two medals, was met by the President, himself – of course, one of the medals has some dispute--- Yet, we have a President, Vice-President and Prime Minister and none of them was able to receive those great men and women at the airport. I find it completely disappointing and I want to encourage them. As we go out to congratulate those Kenyans, I would like the Minister--- She has been very good. I think we need to congratulate her. Can she increase the resources in terms of even basic items like flags, uniforms and the facilities that are required. She should try and see whether she can allocate more resources because what we saw is like we were expecting only one gold. We had only one flag. What silver and bronze medalists? They had no national flag to carry around the stadium. I congratulate them for a job well done.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. As I join those who have congratulated our sportsmen, women and the Minister for the gallant performance of our athletes, may I recommend to the Minister to persuade her Cabinet colleagues to change the policy of putting the portraits of our Head of State on our Kenyan currency notes and, instead, put the portraits of those men and women who have done so well for this country. That is one way of getting people to recognize them because they are better know all over the world and they have made greater contribution to the well being of this country more than the portraits that we put on our currency notes. Could the Minister consider persuading the Cabinet to change the policy and have those men and women on our currency notes?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I wish to take this opportunity to congratulate our men and women who have done this country proud. As my colleagues have already said, it is very important to do two things to a performer. You recognize and you reward. So, it is not just enough to recognize the medalist. It is also good to reward them.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2924 Finally, I wish the Minister could consider pushing her Cabinet colleagues and other authorities to consider the issue of duo citizenship. Our athletes are running away because we do not allow duo citizenship. You saw that in the 1,500 metres, the gold medalist by the name of Gregory Konchella really wanted to come back home last year. But he could not and he is a Kenyan. You saw Mr. Lagat who was running for USA and others for Bahrain. If we allow duo citizenship for our athletes, I am sure we would have been number one in the world and not number three.

Minister, can you now make the clarifications, so that we can proceed to the next Order? We have business on the Order Paper! Proceed and make the clarifications!

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

I want to take this opportunity to thank hon. Members for their support and prayers, and for all the contributions that have been made this morning, as well as for those contributions that were to be made. I am sure that if we had time, everyone in this House has something to say about our athletes. So, I truly appreciate their support.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, about motivational support to the athletes, I want to assure hon. Members that I feel that our athletes really need more. I went to Ethiopia last year, after I was just appointed. I was shown a mountainous place that is like Muthaiga. I was told that was where the athletes of Ethiopia stay. They are given cars and houses, as Mr. Mungatana said. So, I would like to ask that the Ministry of Finance gives us more money for us to be able to support these people, because they are real heroes. I was in the field with some hon. Members, namely, Maj-Gen. Nkaisserry, Mr. Pesa and Mr. Kabando wa Kabando as well as our Permanent Secretary. You could scream until you lost your voice. These people are real patriots. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to say that the role of sports in promoting peace in this country is very powerful. As said by Mr. Ethuro, there is sports for peace development that is being pursued by the United Nations (UN) through a gentleman known as “Lemke”. I quote one of our athletes, Tekla Lorupe, who was also in Berlin. She has started a peace race, where the warriors in the communities that normally fight compete and are given cows, so that they can stop cattle rustling. We support such initiatives. I want to thank the House and say that we give cash awards. We will still give them the same, but those awards are so minimal. I accept that they are not enough. We are asking for more money, so that we can support the centres of excellence for sports. I want to inform this House that we have been in discussions with the Ministry of Education, so that we can have talent academies developed in various parts of this country. We can then have people who can run short races. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I know that we have people from western and eastern Kenya, as my brother here said, who can run. With support from Treasury and hon. Members – I do not know whether to call it “scholarships” – we can work together to give them shoes. We want to develop a sports training camp of some kind for the various sports. As we prepare for 2010 Senior African Athletics Championships, we would like to be able to increase, or broaden, the sphere of sports we participate in.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2925 As Eng. Gumbo said, we would like to pick people for field events like discus, short-put and javelin. Maj-Gen. Nkaisserry, having seen what they did in Berlin, has promised that in 2010, there will be somebody from Maasailand, throwing the javelin and bringing gold to this country. The competitions were very competitive. That is why the issue of tactics, as Mr. Lagat said, was very important. Asbel Kiprop was a very potential athlete. I want to assure the House that he was very disappointed when he lost the 1,500 metres race. So was Kirwa when he lost the 800 metres race. This was because they did not start properly. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in order to solve that problem, as a Ministry, we will organise a debriefing session, so that we can have people from Amateur Athletics Association and this august House to discuss how to deal with coaching, experience and supporting people, including former athletes, so that we do not have a situation where people do not recognise our heroes. These are real heroes. So, we will have a session where hon. Members and all Kenyans, who want to support the development of sports in this country, can bring us ideas. Yesterday, I was at a place where I saw a man running a hotel. He said that he was a world champion in so many events like judo and boxing. We are developing a policy that will enable us to recognise former athletes. Athletes from the disciplined forces did us proud. We want to appeal that people like Kirui, who did so well, be considered for more promotion. Kirui said that we are still going to organise a session during which the sportsmen and sports women will hand over the flag. I have heard what has been said. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, during that briefing, we will discuss how we can give

or bendera to all the other medal holders. There will be a session when our sportsmen and women will hand over the flag to the leadership of this country. We can organise for that to take place at a place where we can all support them. So, His Excellency the President, the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister and all of us can have an opportunity to shake the hands of these ports men and women. We are also working on a lottery, so that we can raise funds. When it comes to this House, we will ask for your support. On the issue raised by Mr. Imanyara, we will discuss it further during that briefing session and even in the Cabinet. I thank hon. Affey for what he said. It is true that the people of the Rift Valley Province have done well. I thank you. We appreciate that. Mr. ole Metito has raised the issue of dual citizenship. I want to tell you that we were agonised in that place. Last year, Mr. Konchella wanted to come back. We asked Athletics Kenya to assist him to come back to Kenya. I do not know what happened, but I want to assure the House that we are working on receiving the athletes who want to come back home and compete for our country. Of course, we must have motivation. We must have support. We must give them support and recognise them as heroes. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on issue of dual citizenship, we felt very jealous when Konchella won the race, because, although he is a Kenyan, he was not running for Kenya. So, we will pursue the issue of dual citizenship in this respect as well as in respect of Kiplagat from the United States of America (USA). So, I want to appeal to hon. Members to do what Maj-Gen. Nkaisserry said: Let us support them right from the constituency level. I want to assure hon. Members that we, in the Ministry, will do our best to support our athletes in terms of getting for them

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2926 facilities like shoes and uniforms. I urge hon. Members to support us in asking for money to support our athletes. I thank you very much. God bless you! God bless Kenya! Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Next Order!

Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sir, last week, I made a substantial contribution to this Motion. Today, I will only talk on two points. One, that the results of the post-elections violence had an element through the agreement between the Prime Minister and the President on Agenda Four. In terms of peace building, we need to look at the root causes of poverty, inequality and corruption that are destroying our country.

The second issue is about the Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs). This particular year, AMANI Forum will commit itself to continue, through the normal parliamentary procedures of raising Motions and Questions, debating and putting Ministers to account on the Rudi Nyumbani Programme. Our people should not be subjected to living in camps. They have now removed them from camps and taken them to what they call: “Integrated DPs”. What is the difference, whether you are displaced or integrated? The

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2927 point is that these people must go back to where they will call home, anywhere in the Republic of Kenya.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, finally, I wish to thank the Speaker, the Clerk and the entire membership of the House. I would also like to thank the Members in particular, who have always been available for the functions and activities of the AMANI Forum.

Last week, I made very good reference, particularly to Prof. Anyang’-Nyong’o, Mr. Gitobu Imanyara, Mr. Paul Muite and Maj.Gen Nkaisserry who was the immediate outgoing chairman of the AMANI Forum for the distinct role they have played in nurturing AMANI Forum, especially the Kenya Chapter to become the most viable chapter in the region. We have taken our own medals just like our athletes have done. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we would like hon. Members, in the words of the “Marathoner” we have in the House, Mr. Lagat, that he ran the marathons of London and Boston. I wish to remind him and all of us that in 2007, he undertook the greatest marathon to come to Parliament. All of us must undertake the marathon of bringing peace and stability to our country. We must appreciate our neighborhood. We should not look at the tribe, but at issues and values. Violence should never be an option. Mr. Nelson Mandela is a living icon raised in this continent. We had Mahatma Gandhi in the sub-continent of India who preached peace and died because he committed himself to bringing about peaceful co-existence between the Hindus and Muslims of that country. He did not want Pakistan to be divided and separated from India. When he was shot he said: “I am dying and I am going to heaven because I have fought a good fight.” Let all of us, in the words of the national anthem remain faithful to our commitment and worth to the nation. With those remarks, I would like to ask Mr. David Koech, the MP for Mosop who is a very good friend of mine; a man whom I call my ambassador because he was the original representative of AMANI Forum. We have two representatives to the region; Mr. Koech and Mr. Imanyara. I could not get any better person to second this Motion than him. I know there are more worthwhile Members to contribute, but I will call upon none other than Mr. Koech from Mosop to second this Motion. I beg to move.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for those kind words. I rise to second this Motion. Most importantly, I would like to thank Mr. Ethuro for bringing this Motion to the House. The word Amani means peace. If there is something that we need as the Kenyan people, it is peace. AMANI Forum is currently a network of Members of Parliament who have come together to see to it that there is peace within the specific countries and also in the region. I would like to mention from the onset that we have seven countries which are members of AMANI Forum at the moment. These are Uganda, Tanzania, Rwanda,

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2928 Burundi, Zambia, the Democratic Republic of Congo and Kenya. The headquarters of AMANI Forum is here in Kenya. In the other countries, their parliaments have recognized AMANI Forum. The reason for this is that most of them have gone through hell and have come back to life. Most of them have seen war and lack of peace in their countries. That is the reason they have put AMANI Forum in the forefront. Members of Parliament from those countries have recognized their role in bringing peace to their countries and also to the region. When your neighbour’s house is on fire, then take note that you must be careful that yours does not also catch the fire. Hence, the need to participate in putting off the fire of your respective neighbours. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to applaud the role played by the former members of AMANI forum in Kenya. Mr. Poghisio has been the Regional Chairman for about five years. Maj-Gen. Nkaisserry was also the former Chairman. They have played a very key role in bringing peace and tranquility in some of our neighbouring countries which include Uganda and Rwanda. Due to good neighbourliness, I would like to bring to the attention of hon. Members that our regional members of AMANI Forum have really been playing a key role in bringing peace in our country. They participated as observers during the 2007 elections. They have been able to guide us on what we, as a country, need to do in order for us to move forward. We have always been saying that Kenya is an island of peace. This is no longer the case as a result of what happened after 2007. Therefore, there is need for us to put as a priority bringing peace and tranquility in our country. I would like to thank the many people who have come in support us, as a country, led by Mr. Koffi Annan and the many eminent persons who have been handy to this country. I would also like to thank the many countries that have come to support us. We, as a country, still have a very big challenge. We must realize that there are still some Kenyans living in IDP camps. We should not just take this for granted and think that life is back to normal while we still have some Kenyans suffering. There is need for the leadership of this country to ensure that we remove these people as fast as possible from these camps, so that they are able to live a normal life like the rest of Kenyans. We, as leaders, also have a very important role in doing the same. Much of it involves preaching peace. There is need for this Parliament to recognize AMANI Forum officially, so that we can use it as a tool to go out there, preach peace and be able to reconcile our people within that umbrella. I would like to commend most Members of Parliament for going round preaching peace to our people within their constituencies and the region. As AMANI Forum, we say that as leaders, we need to be very careful with the utterances that we sometimes make that can lead to disunity among our people. It is the belief and policy of Amani Forum that we speak in the language that brings people together and does not disintegrate our communities.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2929 Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, today, we have applauded our athletes for putting Kenya on the map. We would like to thank them for the role that they are playing as we recall what happened in 2008 when Kenya was down. That was the year that the whole world was able to recognize Kenya, as a country, especially when our athletes did us proud outside there. The role that they play in peace building is very key to us as a nation. We, as AMANI Forum, have done a lot as a caucus. We have gone round places. We have been in Eldoret, Baringo and Coast Province through playing football with Bunge FC to bring people together. We have also been in Limuru for public rallies. As we make AMANI Forum recognized by Parliament, I plead with all Members that this should be a special grouping which brings together all Members of this honorable House so that we can be able to build this country. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I mentioned earlier, other countries have this Forum and it is already recognized. We would also like our own Parliament to participate fully in regional meetings, regional initiatives to bring peace in our region and countries surrounding us so that we can live in peace as a country. In order for us to have peace, this Parliament should be in the forefront. I would like to propose that as a Parliament, being the House that distributes resources in this country, the onus is on this House to ensure that every corner of this country is fully taken care of in terms of development. We should avoid cases where some regions feel neglected. We would like to have a peaceful Parliament. We would like the Tenth Parliament to be referred to as a Parliament of peace, especially when our leaders take the initiative of putting Kenya together. As a regional representative of AMANI Forum, every corner of this region, whether the Democratic Republic of Congo, Zambia, Rwanda, Burundi or Tanzania are all looking to Kenya for direction. The day Kenya takes the leading role, I believe this region shall be fully at peace. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are aware of our neighbours in Somalia and it should concern this House that there is need to broker peace in our neighbouring countries like Somalia. We can then be able to develop, especially the north eastern part of Kenya where development is still very behind. Insecurity is also high as a result of problems affecting and afflicting our neighbours. I want to plead with Members of this House that we change this country. We can bring peace and development to this country. Without peace, there is no much development we can talk about. We would like to have a Parliament where all are equal, friends, brothers and sisters. With those few remarks, I beg to second.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me at the outset and as the founding chair of AMANI Forum, congratulate the Mover of this Motion Mr. Ethuro for finding it fit to bring the Motion for official recognition. The wording is “official recognition” because AMANI Forum has been part and parcel of this Parliament since the Eighth Parliament when we officially launched it. Indeed, Mr. Speaker is the patron of the organization. So this is long overdue. What Mr. Ethuro has done to bring this Motion to officially acknowledge the presence and need for AMANI Forum is a matter that needs to be supported and encouraged.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this very important organ of our National Assembly. I used to be a pioneer member of the Amani Forum in the Eighth Parliament. I am very happy to note that the Forum has grown in stature over the years and has played a very useful role in reconciling not only the Kenyan people but beyond. Kenya is recognized as a peacemaking country and the Kenyan Government has played a substantial role in the resolution of the conflict in Sudan. They have also played a substantial role in attempting to reconcile the warring parties in Somalia. In fact, it is in Kenya where we established a transition Government that is currently working in Somalia after 18 years of lack of a central authority in that country. The unfortunate thing is that there has been no working relationship between the Government and Parliament when Amani Forum was playing all the fundamental roles that have been said by Mr. Imanyara and the Chair. There has been no particular relationship between the Government and the Amani Forum. There is need to coordinate Amani Forum not only to be recognized as an organ of Parliament but to see if it can be coordinated in a more effective way with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs which, of course, is the custodian of the peace processes that we have in this country. Since we are known to be peacemakers and because this organization has had a wonderful role of working with other parliaments in this region, it is unfortunate that it have not had any substantial formal recognition and yet we are told that Amani Forum has its regional headquarters here in Kenya. We would only empower it more if we recognized it formally in our Parliament. Kenya needs reconciliation and this House must lead in its efforts to reconcile the Kenyan people. What happened in December 2007 is unfortunate and has gone into the annals of history. However, never again will the Kenyan people rise against each other and fight if forums such the Amani Forum is given substantial recognition in this Parliament. Not only that, I think we should do more by going out and reaching out to the communities. I have not seen the Amani Forums hon. Members travelling to the countryside and reconciling our people. We need to move out and reconcile our people because this House has a single responsibility to play that role. We need reconciliation. I support the recently established Truth Justice and Reconciliation Commission (TJRC). I have no problem with the Chair of this Commission. A lot has been said about

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2932 the Chair. I had an opportunity to work with him, Amb. Kiplagat. He has experience and the necessary qualifications as a Kenyan to lead this. Besides, the list was brought before the House, we discussed it and we approved it as the Kenya National Assembly. The Amani Forum, which we want to establish formally, needs to go out and see how it can help this Commission. Blame game and trying to derail processes that we have established will not help us. It is not that every Kenyan who is given a job is absolutely perfect. However, there is need to build on that. The Amani Forum has the rare privilege to reach out to this Commission and get out to the countryside and reconcile the Kenyan people. This is what is expected of us, as leaders. Therefore, I would like the Kenyan people to stop the debate on whether this person is suitable for this job because the more we discuss it, the more we undermine the achievement of a Commission like that which this House passed. There is no single Kenyan that we can say is absolutely perfect. We do not have a Nelson Mandela or a Desmond Tutu here. Every other person we give an assignment in this country will have one group or the other blaming him. I just want to challenge the Amani Forum to see whether together with this Committee and this Parliament, we can begin to heal this country and reconcile the Kenyan people. I want to speak on the issue of Somalia where I had an opportunity to serve as the Kenya’s Ambassador there. That country is bleeding and the more it bleeds, the more it continues to impact negatively on the economy and security of Kenya. I would like to suggest that the Amani Forum--- As Mr. Imanyara has said, they played a fundamental role in the resolution of the crisis in Tanzania. They also played the same role in Congo. Somalia is just next door. The Kenyan people have full trust. They are trusted more than any other people. The Kenyan Parliament in Somalia today has absolute trust of the Somalia population. They do not trust other regional parliaments the way they trust the Kenyan Parliament and the Kenyan people. This is because we have never gone to interfere with the internal matters. Therefore, we are a credible group and they can listen to us. I would like to suggest to the Amani Forum, the Kenyan Chapter, to play an aggressive role a more robust role and see how the situation in Somalia can come to an end. This can be done. What is happening there is not only a Somalia problem. The situation in Somalia is so internationalized that many other countries are involved. However, if we are not interested, the situation in Somalia will engulf us if it has not already done so. We have a 1,300 kilometers security challenge border which is very difficult for any government to patrol. Therefore, we must see how we can empower the transitional institutions in Somalia. The Amani Forum Kenya can play the diplomatic role because what we require is a group of leaders from this region who are not interested in the internal dynamics of Somalia, who will go out and say that we need to build institutions because what is lacking are the institutions.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2933 We must understand, as we go about the business of going into that country, that the international community has failed to resolve the situation in Somalia. We must be the voice because apparently, there is no strong voice in Somalia to attend to international forums and say that those people need to resolve their conflict. I just want to encourage the Amani Forum Kenya to not only reconcile Kenya but to go beyond the Kenyan borders and reconcile our friends, brothers and sisters in Somalia where there is a possibility for change because conflict has been going on for over 20 years. People there are tired and they want to resolve their issues fairly quickly but they have no capacity to ventilate their difficulties in international forums. The Amani Forum Kenya can play that significant role. I support the establishment of this organ. We must be a country that supports peace. Let us support reconciliation of our Kenyan people through an organ like the Amani Forum. Let us support the TJRC and move towards reconciliation. I support.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I rise to support this Motion. As a member of the AMANI Forum, I appreciate the leadership of that organisation. The forum brings together Parliamentarians from the Great Lakes Region. It is very important because that region faces numerous challenges, especially political, and which need political solutions. When the AMANI Forum is affiliated to Parliament, it will achieve two things: First, it will give greater legitimacy to the forum. It will provide the necessary basis for the forum to be appreciated more by the Government. That is because it will be composed of the representatives of the people from the region and, more specifically, from Kenya. It will help us to connect with the needs of the country as a mover and a shaper of the regional peace-making effort. Secondly, it will also give the forum recognition. Recognition is very important because it brings merit and allows the forum to be known and promoted. That will give it more stability. The forum has made good efforts. But those efforts need to be escalated. It has achieved much in terms of programmes and various meetings in the region and in this country. Last year, it brought Parliamentarians together at a time when it was very challenging for us to be together. The forum hosted peace initiatives in different parts of the country. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, when the forum is affiliated to Parliament and it is allocated secretariat support, it will also reach out to those other initiatives that are happening in this country, in the region and in the world. For instance, while we were in Berlin for the World Athletics Championships, one of the best scenarios away from the track events when Kenyan athletes were being celebrated and our National Anthem being sung to the attention of the whole world, was the presence of Tegla Lorupe. She is a Kenyan star who causes a lot of attention across the globe. For instance, Tegla Lorupe had an opportunity to be hosted exclusively by the Chancellor of the Federal Republic of German. Madam Merkel gave Tegla Lorupe adequate opportunity and actually, she went out of her way to ensure that the people of Germany and the world knew that she was meeting with Tegla Lorupe. That is because of the peace efforts that she has been organising. The following day, the Defence Minister of the Federal Republic of Germany invited Tegla and, again, hosted her in the presence of a whole battalion. He gave her a present, a podium and an opportunity to speak to the guests. Therefore, she

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2934 gave a message emanating from the Republic of Kenya through a peace-maker. She is doing a lot of work in Kapenguria, where I have been with the Chairman of the AMANI Forum. She has put a lot of efforts in Mount Elgon this year, last year and the preceding years. Tegla had made a lot of efforts in Karamojong’, across the border in Uganda. She has even been received by the First Lady of Uganda, Madam Janet Museveni and the President, hon. Museveni, himself. Therefore, it is important for that Forum to be regularized in Parliament, so that it can become a programme that will take the peace message deeper. That will also give it an opportunity to deepen its work within the country. We realize that apart from what we must do in Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi, Somalia and other countries in the Great Lakes Region, we need to ask Kenya to come out better than she is. I was very astonished when I watched Cable News Network (CNN) last week during the Afghanistan elections. One of the candidates was saying that in Afghanistan, they do not want to have election problems and be like Kenya or Zimbabwe. It was being watched in the whole world; people exemplifying Kenya with a country like Zimbabwe. It is true that we went down. Therefore, it is important that the AMANI Forum becomes the corner stone that will build the house of Kenya as a Republic, celebrated and recognized as a nation of an optimistic community. In 2002, we were rated across the world as a very optimistic community. When I was in Berlin, I saw a British national walking in the streets with her nails painted in Kenyan colours. We talked to the lady with hon. Pesa and she has never been to Kenya. That shows recognition. Again, when our athletes finished the marathon and achieved a gold and silver medal, we were being stopped in the streets by people who wanted to be photographed with us. That is because we are from Kenya. They were mentioning the names of Henry Wanyoike, Paul Tergat and Catherine Ndereba. Those are names that, sometimes, even in our secondary schools, we tend to forget easily. Therefore, there is need to brand Kenya better and AMANI Forum will have an opportunity, once this Motion has been passed and the forum facilitated through Parliament, to connect with the potentials that exist in this country that will brand Kenya better. The Brand Kenya Board is doing a lot of good things. The Board gave special cards to our athletes when they finished. So, everybody who touched or greeted our athletes received a card that said: “This is a country that has unique character”. The sort of posters that Tegla Lorupe was giving in the streets, in Olympia Stadium and in the meetings that she held with the dignitaries are the kind of programmes that need to be formulated wider. The AMANI Forum has that opportunity and an obligation, as an affiliate of Parliament, to connect and ensure that we put our image at a better and different level, so that we can harness the goodwill that we have in the world, but which is depleted through some reckless statements. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, in conclusion, when I was away, I read online the comments of the Assistant Minister for Higher Education, Science and Technology, Dr. Mwiria, on the Truth, Justice and Reconciliation Commission. I have also commented on that. When our colleagues hear some of us making comments and criticisms on some of the Government initiatives and yet, we are in the Government, it is not because we are limited in our perceptions. It is because we are ideologically clear that this country needs to develop a character. This country is not without individuals, ladies and gentlemen, who can provide a refreshing initiative. I also appreciate you as a

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2935 Member of Parliament for Eldoret East. I know the efforts that you have made in your constituency to bring people together. You have even invited many other people. I would urge all of us, wherever we are, to be tolerant and accommodative. The time of monologue and one tune is long gone. This is not a one party State anymore. It is a country of multiplicity of ideas and diversity of opinions. We must shape the ideas of this country to compete in a way. That is why we, sometimes, get disappointed when we hear some people talking about drum beats of war and saying: “If this is not done, we are going to fight!” It is good to criticize, but it is also important to criticize in a way that brings the country together. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I would also like to recognize the work that has been done by one of the Members of AMANI Forum here, hon. Wamalwa. During the post-election violence in this country, hon. Wamalwa went to his constituency, risked his political support and engaged every community. His Saboti Constituency is a home of the Republic of Kenya. The AMANI Forum is on a pedestal and a crescendo and it can make the sparkle of hope, optimism, discipline, objectivity, positive thinking and legislative work in this region make us better so that we can benefit more from the globe. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to support this very important Motion. I want to congratulate Messrs. Ethuro, Koech and others who have spoken in support of the need to have that group appreciated and recognized by Parliament. There is no doubt that Members of Parliament have a very big role to play in unifying this country. After all, it is Members of Parliament who represent other Kenyans in this National Assembly. I would like to point out that as much as we recognise the AMANI Forum and the parliamentary role it will play, we should also criticise ourselves and appreciate the fact that the biggest enemies of peace in this country are Members of Parliament and politicians. This is a fact. We will not talk about Somalia and other countries without dealing with our problems; the expression “that physician healed thyself”. So, I would like to tell the AMANI Forum that their biggest battle is to convince hon. Members to be Kenyans. This is because if they do not win that fight, even the idea of entrenching it in Parliament and accepting it as a body is of no use. The first responsibility is to talk to Members of Parliament and get them to think as Kenyans. I am saying this because last week, for example, we had Members of Parliament congregating as a group from one part of the country and talking all manner of--- Some of those Members of Parliament are members of the AMANI Forum. In fact, some of the biggest warmongers are members of the AMANI Forum. They talk about why they should not be touched or why they should not touch so and so. They also say that if they are provoked they can do this and that and why they must oppose what the Prime Minister says because he no longer thinks about the community. Two months before that meeting, another group met in Kirinyaga and said; “We have to sit with all the presidential candidates from this region and ask them to agree, so that they have only one candidate.” This is the case and yet these are Members of Parliament and also members of the AMANI Forum. So, how far can we go with warmongers in the midst of the AMANI Forum? The Members of Parliament who are not really interested in peace say; “Do not touch the former President.” This is not an issue

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2936 about Moi. This is just like when you oppose Kenyatta and the wrongs he did to this country. This is not about Kenyatta and the Kikuyus but about this country. So, this is very important to us. We support Mr. Ethuro, but let him convert Members of Parliament first.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, in this regard, I hope that one of his accomplishments will be to get Kenyans to even begin organizing political organizations along ideologies as opposed to ethnic groups. This is because right now, as we have seen, all our problems originate from the fact that we just talk “tribe” even in the way we organise ourselves politically. You can say that the PNU was a predominantly Mt. Kenya mafia. However, you can also say that the ODM was a group of ethnic groups against another major ethnic group. Unless we begin to find ways through the Constitution and we fund political parties, but more importantly, in terms of a group like the AMANI Forum, getting Members of Parliament to congregate along ideologies and principles as opposed to ethnicity--- If the AMANI Forum can be a leader in this and give us one or two political parties that we can say are truly Kenyan and not ethnic, we will make progress because that is the source of many of our problems.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, a lot has been said about sports and how our athletes made us proud, including unifying this country. This is a role that we have not really acknowledged and taken advantage of. How can we translate the unity that we exhibit on televisions into real national unity? We need to ask questions as to whether or not we cannot have national sports where constituencies, provinces and districts congregate and compete as a country and where we nurture talents across the whole country. I remember a Member of Parliament while contributing said; “We thank Rift Valley for giving us all those athletes.” Talent in this country is across the board. I think we have athletes and sportsmen across this country. It is only that we have not nurtured that potential. This is because if you go back into yesteryears, you will find people like Ngugi and Ndereba who came from outside Rift Valley Province. What have we done to ensure that, that talent across the country is harnessed?

Education can also play a big role and I hope the AMANI Forum can take advantage of this. In terms of what has been said many times about preferably having national schools in every constituency and centres of excellence that we are creating so that we recruit and admit students from across the board, more importantly, we should recruit teachers and ensure that like all civil servants they teach in any part of this country. If we add all our 250,000 primary and secondary school teachers represented across the country, it is unlikely that we can even have a repeat of the ethnic clashes, because every community will be represented or have people coming from their community who will be working in another part of this country. So, one way of beginning to heal this country and ensuring that some of these things do not recur is by ensuring that where we have a majority of civil servants, they are posted to communities where they do not come from. Again, as Members of Parliament, we need to be at the

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2937 forefront of this because we are often the ones who say: “I need a principal of a school to come from my community, or need to recruit all teachers from my local village.” As long as we do that, and do not appreciate the fact that education plays a big role in getting us think together as a country and nurturing the youth to begin seeing themselves as Kenyans then, we are not preparing the ground for a future that we would like to see, of a united country.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the issue of Agenda Four has also come up. I do agree with Mr. Ethuro and others who have spoken that, we need to address issues about inequality in this c country and that we must address historical injustices. However, sometimes, we look at it on the surface. If you really looked at inequality, why do you say that people from Central Province are much more advantaged than those from North Eastern Province or Rift Valley Province? We have refused to look at the real problem of inequality in this country. It is really a class issue. The people who own property and land in this country come from across the communities in this country. The people who have been allocated the Agricultural Development Corporation (ADC) farms and those who grabbed most of the land come from across all communities. If we do not address that but just look at it in terms of provinces and go cheating our people that the reason North Eastern Province or Rift Valley Province is disadvantaged is because some communities in this country have a larger share of the national cake, then we are not being honest, because that is not the problem. I think our main problem is one of socio-economic differences and class. We need to address that and not continue seeing it as a tribal matter. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the issue of the Truth, Justice and Reconciliation Commission (TJRC) has come up. I really hope that the TJRC will make a difference in this country in terms of uniting us. However, there are many questions that have been asked about the leadership that is genuine. Whether we like it or not one way of showing the way is that when your credibility is questioned and people say they think that you cannot be the best representative or chairperson of an organization, I think if you are as good as some people make you think, then you should set an example by saying: “Fine, because of national interest and my integrity, I am willing to step aside so that somebody else can take this responsibility.” This is because whether we like it or not it is high time we came out clearly. There is no Kenyan superman or a Kenyan we can trust to do a certain job. There are many Kenyans, especially younger people who need an opportunity to also contribute to the healing in this country. So, I do agree with Mr. Affey that there can never be one person who is acceptable by everyone with regard to the chairing of the TJRC, but maybe we should also ask questions, as Members of Parliament about the role we played in terms of ensuring that those nominated to that Commission were people that were acceptable nationally. This is because the Chairperson was recruited out of a list that was passed by this Parliament. So, there are questions about the whole selection process; in terms of how it was quickly done without enough

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2938 consultation and Members of Parliament themselves passing the list without asking those questions. In essence, it is unfortunate that we asked these questions late, but the point is that I think Kenyans must be prepared. There must be some good Kenyans to lead the way by ensuring that if my integrity is questionable, even if it is not true, it is high time I said that the country is much more important than me. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to support the Motion.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to support this very important Motion. First, I would like to thank the Mover for coming up with this Motion which is very timely and very relevant to what we are talking about now in this country; peace and conflict management. A lot has been said about AMANI Forum. What this Motion is asking this House to do is actually very simple; to give it Parliamentary recognition and give it the legitimacy that it can operate within the legal framework set by this House. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I think this is very important because AMANI Forum, as many speakers have already said, contributes a lot towards the peace and conflict management and resolution in this country. To a large extent, it contributes towards security in this country. Security is very paramount to any investment and development in the Government. AMANI Forum has been in existence since the Eighth Parliament and has done a lot in this country, although it has confined its activities in the North Rift but it has been operating haphazardly and mostly relying on donor funding. This is an organization that cuts across seven countries in this region, as has been said before, and this country is the headquarters or the hub for all its activities. It is very unfair that it does not have offices where other Parliamentary colleagues from the other six countries could trace the activities of AMANI Forum. This is mainly a Parliamentary organ with respect to the achievement of their objectives. Therefore, I think it is the right time that we resolves that the AMANI Forum be given a very competent secretariat with very competent staff with regard to peace building, conflict resolution and management. It should also be given the necessary resources and logistics to even plan inter-country parliamentary activities. If we are the headquarters of the AMANI Forum, it would be good to have, not only regional or national activities, but also for this House to facilitate this forum so that we can reach our parliamentary colleagues in Zambia, Tanzania, Burundi, Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and others. This is in order to have that weight and that legitimacy in the spirit of bringing this region together. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, we are now moving towards a regional block. We have the East African Community (EAC), the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) countries and Southern African Development Community (SADC). Some of SADC members are also members of the AMANI Forum. If this House gives the legitimacy and the support that AMANI Forum requires and facilitate it to the utmost level, it can cut across and bring the regional blocks together. I am very happy to note that AMANI Forum is non-political. It cuts across all political parties in this House. It is also non-ethnic and non-regional. It draws membership from all regions. If you have been keen and listening to Members’ contribution, they said that they are members of AMANI Forum. You will agree that they have been brought together by one principle and one objective which is to have peace in this country and

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2939 beyond. Therefore, I would like to ask this House to give it the support that it requires and also ask the members of AMANI Forum to be more active and extend their activities to all constituencies in this country. Right now we are talking of reconciliation in this country. We want to forget what happened in 2007 and bring a new chapter of peace, reconciliation and nationhood. This morning we were talking about the good athletes who have done us proud. I think AMANI Forum, given the mandate and the necessary logistics that it requires, can use the athletes from this country and the young men and young women in the constituencies to move around this country and try to come up with activities and programmes that would facilitate and promote peace.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, in the last Parliament, I attended Forum activities in Moroto, Uganda. It was a meeting between the Turkanas, Pokots and Karamajong from the other side. We ran a race. I am happy that the current Chairperson of AMANI Forum was very active. He is the one who facilitated the programme in Moroto, Uganda. That was about the issue of cattle rustling. How can we bring peace to the pastoral communities? I am very sure that with the current energetic Members of Parliament, I have seen that the membership has increased, and if we take the spirit of our athletes and incorporate it in this body, we can go up to the constituency level and try to entrench the spirit of nationhood and peace among ourselves.

With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I also wish to support this Motion. I also thank Mr. Ethuro for bringing this Motion which is long overdue. AMANI Forum has been around for many years but it has not been officially recognized. It is a forum to which all Members of the National Assembly belong. It is a forum that stands for three things: Peace, Unity in diversity, reconciliation and national healing. This is something that we all, as national leaders, must support because without peace there can be no development, justice and even the Vision 2030 that we have been talking about for many years, will remain but a pipe dream. To speak for peace is something that is Godly. The scriptures tell us that “blessed are the peace makers for they shall be called the children of God.” Though it is Godly, it is not very easy to speak for peace and the ills that threaten peace.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, Rev. Niemoller, the holocaust survivor, once said that when they came for the communist, he did not speak because he was not a communist. When they came for the Jews, he did not speak because he was not a Jew. When they came for the Catholics, he did not speak because he was a protestant. By the time, they came for him, there was no one to speak for him. It is not easy to speak for peace and justice. At the funeral of J.M. Kariuki in 1975, Mr. Alfonce Okuku made a memorable eulogy when he said that in 1965 when they killed Pio Gama Pinto, they did not speak because he was just a Muhindi or an Asian. In 1969, when they killed Tom Mboya, they did not speak because he was another Mjaluo. When they killed Ronald Ngala, they did not speak because he was just another Mswahili. When they killed J.M. Kariuki he asked them, “will you not speak because he is just another Kikuyu or will you say that Kikuyus are killing each other?” These are things that, through this forum, we must speak regardless of our tribes, parties and regions. Until that day when we shall look at each other as Kenyans and not as Luo, Kalenjin or Kikuyu we will not realize real peace. That would only come when we stop looking at the Mungiki problem as a kikuyu

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2940 problem; Sabaot Land Defence Force (SLDF) as a sabaot problem, and lately looking at Migingo as a Luo problem. We are even looking at Mau as a Kalenjin problem. These are issues that we must speak up against and speak as Kenyans and not as members of ODM or PNU or this tribe or that. AMANI Forum brings together all Members of Parliament. It is the only forum through which we can speak and not be looked at as Kikuyu, Luo or a Kalenjin or an ODM or PNU Member. It is a forum that we must all support to actually bring about national reconciliation. As hon. ole Metito has just said, it cuts across all regions.

After the post-election violence not much has been done towards healing and reconciliation of this nation. Indeed, there were a few visits made by His Excellency the President, the Prime Minister and the Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs. They visited Eldoret. They also visited Cherangani, but after wards we stopped that process of healing when we were supposed to go to the villages to speak to the people such as the IDPs and those that were afflicted. We stopped doing this somewhere along the way. Indeed, we came back to this House and made some legislation. We dealt with the Truth, Justice and Reconciliation (TJRC) Bill. This House also dealt with the National Ethnic and Race Relations Commission Bill. Many Bills have been passed which would be good towards national reconciliation. But there has been no action in actually setting the feet of this nation on the part of reconciliation and national healing. Not much has been done. But I believe through this AMANI Forum we can have an outreach programme through which we can visit villages, affected areas and IDPs to speak to them together as Members of Parliament from all communities, parties and region through AMANI Forum.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I do remember at the height of the post- election violence we did gather a group of Members of Parliament who went across this nation. We went to Nyanza, Western and Rift Valley Provinces and the impact was there. But along the way, that process stopped. If through this forum we could reactivate that forum, we could, indeed, continue the healing process that needs to be done. We do recall that when there were burials of the victims of the Kiambaa Church, indeed, not all Kenyans were represented there. You could tell that the healing has not exactly taken place between the local communities that were affected in that area. This is one area that I would like to urge hon. Ethuro as Chairman of AMANI Forum to look into. Through this forum we can bring together all Members of Parliament. Let us one day go to the Kiambaa Church where 35 people were burnt and hold prayers; all of us from all parties and all tribes. Let us speak to the communities and bring about reconciliation. Indeed, in the course of our travels, we came across a man who was one of the most affected victims of the post-election violence. His name was Bernard Ndege Orinda. This is the man whose entire family was burnt to death in Naivasha. He lost his eight children and two wives. Mr. Orinda left Naivasha with nothing; not his children, not even his clothes. He left without anything. When we visited Kisumu, we were led by Mr. Olago and were with Mr. Namambwa and Dr. Eseli and several Members of Parliament. We were several Members who visited these camps and we came across this man. He was a bitter man and was in despair. It was very surprising that with time, he managed to pick the pieces. With time, he moved on with his life. Recently, I was happy to learn that Mr. Orinda even married a young wife and they got their first child. For this reason, he embodied the resilience of this nation. We can forget about what happened. We can pick up the pieces

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2941 and move forward. We can overcome the despair and bitterness that he and many victims of the post-election violence went through and move forward. We believe that through AMANI Forum we could go out there, meet him, his family and other affected families and, indeed, encourage Kenya to start moving forward.

With those few remarks, I beg to support this very important Motion.

Mr. Maina, you will have only five minutes before the Government Responder comes.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker; I stand to support this Motion.

AMANI Forum being a peace initiative is vital element that we need today. This Parliament has a big task to do for this country and other countries in the region. In this country, there is nothing that is more threatening to our destiny than sustenance of peace in the real terms. So, through AMANI Forum we have a chance where leaders of this country and Parliamentarians could lead the way. The most surprising thing in Kenya today is that wananchi understand peace more than leaders. They are ready to seek peace. However, we, as leaders, have done little. If anything, the post-election violence was as a result of our deeds and utterances. So, through AMANI Forum we have a chance to go around this country and preach peace.

We need not to overemphasize the importance of peace. Without it, we cannot talk about Vision 2030 or any other development in this country. We saw the economy of this country thrown into tatters in 2007. In a spell of about a month or two months, what we had built for five years was shattered. I think we should take this forum seriously. It is a forum that we should support.

In this region, where we have AMANI Forum, the main problem is war and conflict between people. We know what happened in Rwanda and Burundi. We know what has happened in Southern Sudan and Uganda. Lastly, in Kenya which was an island of peace, we saw what happened in 2007. I do not think there is anything more important for us, as leaders, and Parliament, than a forum like this where we can have a chance to preach peace. I attended the burial of Kiambaa Church victims. It was a very sad affair. Any leader in this region who has witnessed what violence can do should be supportive of any initiative for peace. I stand here to support the AMANI Forum as a step towards preaching and maintaining peace in this country. We need also to be practical when we talk about peace. We have people who suffered in this country. I want to say that I think peace is going to be evasive until we can try to reinstate the living conditions of those people. It is not easy to preach peace to somebody who has not had a meal on his table. It is not easy to preach peace to somebody whose house was burnt and he is living outside. So, I call upon this Government, when we are preaching peace, to go a step forward and be practical about peace and not to subject the ordinary people to the impossibility of accepting under conditions that are impossible.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I support AMANI Forum. I want to call upon this Parliament that we should actively get involved in this forum and start creating peace in this country. Africa has suffered; Kenya has suffered. Let us not try to pretend. There is also all the cattle rustling going on. In my own constituency, the other day, 29 people were killed in one morning. So, it is a high time that we, as leaders, stopped relegating the issue of peace; of having stability in the country, into a second tier and put

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2942 it as our main agenda everywhere. If we leaders were serious about creating peace; if all leaders were serious about demolishing the things that threaten peace, starting with ethnic divisions that are witnessed even in this House--- In any forum you see leaders in this country, you can actually see ethnic divisions, including in this House. If we are serious about creating peace, let us start tackling these things. Very few of us have been to some corners of this country and I keep wondering how we can talk about reconciliation in Nairobi when we have never been to some areas and integrate with those people. I stand here to support the AMANI Forum. I will support any initiative that is out to create peace for this country and the region at large. I repeat again that until and unless we can lay the real seeds of peace, we tend to be hypocritical.

I support the AMANI Forum. I support peace in Kenya, in the region, in Africa and the world at large.

Hon. Members, it is now time for the Government Responder.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. Let me start by thanking Mr. Ethuro, who is the Chairman of AMANI Forum, Kenya Chapter, for bringing this Motion to the Floor of the House. It is, in my opinion, a very important Motion and, indeed, I, personally, have had the pleasure of participating in various activities organized by this Chapter. I must say that this Motion is timely, if not overdue.

The forum has successfully enabled hon. Members to effectively play their roles in peace building and conflict management, not only in Kenya but as we heard from Mr. Imanyara, within the region. This has been done through organizing and building capacities for hon. Members and the knowledge has definitely contributed to the active participation of hon. Members in enhancing democracy and the rule of law in Kenya.

For a long time, Kenyan parliamentarians or Kenyans have played a mediatory as well as observer role in regional conflicts. This, obviously, changed with the post- election violence in 2007. This has necessitated and enhanced engagement, especially, by Kenyan leaders in peace building and reconciliation. This will not only contribute to the national healing but also prevent further conflict in this country. As legislators, we are important players nationally and regionally in the promotion of peace and reconciliation, conflict mitigation and prevention, democracy and good governance as well as regional integration. We also act as a link between the governed and the governors at the grassroots and national levels. Throughout our everyday work in Parliament via debates as well as the legislative processes, political parties and constituency relations, we are able to engage with a wide variety of actors and channel important perspectives on peace matters. I am aware that the forum has been working very closely with the National Assembly in various activities including but not limited to April 2007, the joint fact- finding mission of the Parliamentary Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security to assess the conflict and mitigation strategies in Mt. Elgon.

The activities of the forum have also been recognized by the various speakers of the National Assembly who have officiated at most AMANI Forum activities held in Kenya. There is, therefore, the need to mainstream AMANI Forum or to mainstream the peace building and conflict management activities of the forum within the National Assembly of Kenya. This would be through the recognition of AMANI Forum, Kenya Chapter, as a Parliamentary organization within the National Assembly of Kenya.

With these few remarks, I beg to support.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I stand to support this important Motion and I thank Mr. Ethuro for bringing the Motion.

I support it because some of us have been in areas where we have had conflict after conflict over the years. AMANI Forum is one that if empowered and recognized would come and bring remedies in some of the areas that have had a lot of conflicts. Peace meetings that are held in some of the places involving PCs, DCs and politicians have not borne any fruits. The PCs and DCs sometimes bring people together and make them shake hands only to clash and fight on the way home. That is an indication that those meetings are not bearing any fruit whatsoever. I would also urge that we recognize the AMANI Forum as a body that will stand in between so that conflicting areas are helped. If there was a body such as that one, for Rwanda when there was a conflict a few years ago, that country would have been saved early enough so that the loss of life and property that was realized would not go to the extent that it went. So, AMANI Forum would have been a solution. It would have brought a remedy to that country by bringing conflicting groups together so that emerging issues would be sorted out early enough. We also know that ours brought us near total destruction in this country. Had a forum such as this one been in place and was empowered to come up with resolutions, it would have saved us from the crisis that we faced. Conflicts still persist in Isiolo, Turkana and Pokot and such a body would bring a lasting solution to the conflicts in those areas. There are also conflicts between various ethnic groups and the AMANI Forum will be empowered to resolve these conflicts. One of the causes of the conflicts is resources. The AMANI Forum will be in a position to discuss issues to do with resources and resolve conflicts that arise as a result of lack of resources. This forum could even work with the elders in the affected areas so that differences are ironed out. Some of the things that make them have conflict include water and pasture. Elders can help in determining who should graze his animals where and the water point to use. Border conflicts also occur between some groups in Kenya and those in Uganda and the AMANI Forum is better placed to handle such conflicts. This is because the forum can liaise with leaders from both sides. It can also organise open fora to discuss the areas of conflict and resolve them. The AMANI Forum can also confront notorious people. Sometimes we have politicians, elders and leaders who cause these problems. This forum can ensure that such people do not cause problems. This group will be empowered to do research so that it can determine why certain groups are notorious in causing conflicts, for example, in North Eastern Province, the North Rift and along our borders. The AMANI Forum will advise our leaders and provide intelligence that could stop recurrence of such conflicts. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, with those few remarks, I beg to support.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I stand to support this Motion within the short time you have given me. We are aware that we have just emerged from the post election violence and we need national reconciliation and healing. This was a lesson for all of us in Kenya given the fact that this occurred after we had lived in harmony for over 40 years. After the elections, Kenyans stood against each other. For that to be stemmed and for people to engage in real reconciliation and healing exercise, we need another forum. It is not just a matter of making laws and saying that Parliament

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2944 alone can create peace. We can sign accords as was done by the President and the Prime Minister, but if Members of Parliament do not come together to share their experiences and divergent views with their communities, we may not foster that kind of reconciliation and healing.

I can see hon. Members want to contribute to this Motion. I strongly support it.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me a chance to contribute in support of this Motion. We are always following what the region is doing. All the other Parliaments in this region have recognized the AMANI Forum as an important vehicle for creating harmony and reconciling their people. It is we, in Kenya, who have not done this and it is appropriate that we do so.

Secondly, even if we do not recognise this forum, it is already recognized! During the post election violence, those of us who are Members of the AMANI Forum from all the political parties in the country namely ODM, PNU, Sisi Kwa Sisi Party or “Wao kwa Wao” got together and toured Rift Valley, Western and Central provinces to bring our people together. So, this is an inter-party forum and it is for people who value peace.

With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I also stand to support this Motion. We talk about the AMANI Forum and the TJRC in a bid to bring peace in our country. Even with the involvement of outsiders, committees or a forum such as this one to be set up, we need to be disciplined. We should live as brothers and sisters and understand that this country belongs to us. We should know that no part of this country belongs to a certain community only. If we do that, we will have a united country that will not need to involve outsiders in its affairs. It is important that the citizens of this country are taught to obey the law of the land. That is the genesis of our way forward. If that is not done, forums will come and discuss issues with prominent people without reaching the people on the ground. If senior citizens in the commissions do not have the ability and capacity to pass information to the grassroots, it will be a waste of time and resources.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to support this Motion.

Mrs. Noor, you have two minutes.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me the opportunity. I rise to support the Motion.

This is a very important and progressive Motion because it seeks to create a peace building institution within Parliament. Kenyans and the world will also know that the Kenyan Parliament is very serious on peace issues. Until the last general election, Kenya was like an island of peace in a sea of turmoil. Kenya used to reach out to our neighbours and mediate on conflicts. Kenya helped Sudan and Somalia.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, it is important that we form this institution. This institution will reach out in our country by way of educating Kenyans on peace issues. It will particularly be able to reach women, who are very sensitive and peace- loving people in this country.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

Mr. Musyimi, you have the two last minutes!

Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the Motion. I have gone on record as having said that we actually need a Ministry for peace, national cohesion and reconciliation. In the absence of such a Ministry, it will be very good for this House to give the leadership in this area.

Peace-making is critical in our country. I am a bit familiar with this work in my previous life. I knew then that there was not so much that you could achieve without Members of Parliament. So, this Motion addresses a very critical need. It is my pleasure to support it.

Thank you.

Thank you, hon. Members. We can now have the Mover to reply.

Mr. Ethuro!

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, 15 hon. Members, including the Mover, have spoken on this Motion. I believe that more hon. Members would have liked to speak. Of the 15 hon. Members who have spoken, there is not even a single dissenting voice. This illustrates the point that this House wants to play its important role in terms of ensuring that peace prevails in our society.

As the last speaker said, and ably so, we need a Ministry. Through this initiative of Parliament, we want the Government to realise that what Parliament believes is important in this country now is peace-making, peace-building and reconciliation, so that we can heal our country and move on.

Hon. Members have raised the question of Somalia and asked what our role is. Some hon. Members raised the issue that we were an optimistic nation in 2003, and stressed that peace itself must start with Parliamentarians. I cannot agree more! It also means that the way we behave, in terms of the utterances we make, that we need to preach water and take water. These are exactly the kind of issues that Amani Forum is meant to deal with. It will definitely perform. We want to start with this House.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, through this House, which, of course, has a constitutional obligation to reach out to the other arms of the State, we will play that legitimate role, as Mr. ole Metito said. We will pursue the three things that Amani Forum stands for: peace, unity, diversity and reconciliation, as Mr. Wamalwa said. To sum it up, it is a matter of setting this nation on a proper path of healing on a higher pedestal, and not just on ad hoc basis.

Eng. Ephraim Maina made a personal commitment to peace. That is what we are looking for. My good neighbour, Mr. Murgor, stated that Amani Forum can play an extremely important role in inter-community dialogue to bring peace. I am sure that he and the Chairman of their Committee know the kind of situation we face every day.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I had an opportunity to represent the Speaker in the Commonwealth Conference. One of the questions raised was: Governments of Coalition: Are they the home-grown African solution?” Speakers from Africa gave a resounding “No”. The question I posed from Kenya was the question that I would like to pause to hon. Members today: Where were you when things were going wrong?”

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:-

THAT, this House extends the mandate of the Parliamentary Select Committee to investigate the Root Cause of Cattle Rustling by a further two months to enable the Committee conclude its activities as per the terms of reference of its establishment.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, we have visited several areas. I would like to thank hon. Members whose constituencies we have visited. We got a lot of support in those areas.

This issue of cattle rusting is a crime of its nature. It is a very dangerous thing and we want to come to this House with strong information that we have drawn from all areas. While seeking this extension, I would be very grateful if the House would agree to extend the mandate of this Committee to two months, so that we conclude this work and come up with proper information.

I will ask Mr. Affey to second this Motion.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I second this Motion and I urge the House to approve it.

Mr. Kaino has not moved the Motion so it cannot be seconded.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move. I would request Mr. Affey to second the Motion.

I beg to support.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I want to support this Motion because Kenya has got more than 40 ethnic groups. Anything that happens within the neighbouring communities disturbs the peace of the whole country.

It is better that the mandate of this Committee is extended, so that the root cause of this cattle rustling is looked into before proper solutions can be designed and developed to stem out the problem forever.

With those few remarks, I beg to support.

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I also beg to support this Motion. The task at hand is very important for the nation. It is incomplete. More time is required. We support that this Committee be allocated more time.

With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, acknowledging the good work performed by the Higher Education Loans Board (HELB) in providing loans to students in both public and private universities from poor background in order to access education; noting that higher education financing is a problem in most countries, including the industrialized; appreciating that middle level technicians are key to industrial development; this House urges the Government to enhance funding to HELB and further widen the scope of its funding to include middle level colleges, especially those offering technician certificates.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, first of all, I would like to give my accolades to the Ministry of Higher Education, Science and Technology for having worked so hard to expand higher education facilities in the country. In the process, public universities have increased in number and so have technical training institutes and polytechnics.

Unfortunately, most of the funding has gone to university students, that is on the consumer side. Students of universities do get higher education loans that they repay when they are employed.

These students, therefore, are able to pay their fees while those ones who go to middle level colleges like technical training institutions, medical training colleges and teacher training colleges do not get such loans. Therefore, they have a problem financing their education.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, higher education financing is a problem the world over. The industrialized nations are grappling with it to the extent that you will find that students have to do work out of campus to earn money to pay their fees. While a few qualify for bursaries, the others have to pay for themselves. That problem extends to developing countries such as ours to the extent that more students in these tertiary institutions are unable to finance their education and yet the HELB does not cater for them. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the bursaries that are offered at polytechnic level are actually given to some students but not all. As a result, you will find that many students in the polytechnics neither have bursaries nor do they have any other access for financing the higher education. Many MPs are aware that many applicants for bursaries come from these middle level colleges, medical training colleges, teacher training colleges and so on. They apply for bursaries from the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF so that they are able to

August 26, 2009 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

2949 continue with their education. The bursaries from the CDF are not adequate to complete this kind of requirement. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, this Motion aims to be able to widen the scope of the Higher Education Loans Board, so that we are able to cater for all these students who are in the middle level colleges. In order for our country to prosper and industrialize, we need these technicians. When you are building a house, the architect has to own it and the various other people who have worked on it. The people at hand to do the work are those from middle level colleges. If we do not have a good backbone of these people then it means that our dream of industrializing is actually dead in the water because we have frustrated the training of these people. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, as a medical doctor I know that when I go to a ward and prescribe some medication, and I walk out the people who will take the blood for laboratory tests, and examine the blood in the laboratory; those are technicians. The nurses are the ones left behind to do the work and yet we are not offering them any---

Order, Dr. Eseli. You will have 17 more minutes when we resume next Wednesday.