Next Order!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Could the Minister confirm that the implementation of the Real Time Gross Settlement (RTGS) or electronic payment has resulted in acute delays in payment of salaries to civil servants, including constituency office staff?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a)In the course of implementation of the Real Time Gross Settlement (RTGS), a few challenges were encountered and resolved as they emerged. Regrettably, this led to delay in payment of October 2009 salaries for a few Ministries and departments. However, this cannot be described as an acute problem. (b)Ministries have now been properly trained in the use of the system and the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) has been requested to monitor banks taking unnecessarily too long to credit employees’ or suppliers’ accounts. Ministries have also been instructed to maintain an accurate database of employees’ and suppliers’ accounts to avoid delays brought about by incorrect payment instructions.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, while thanking the Assistant Minister for the answer, I get concerned when he under-estimates the problems this system has caused. Could he confirm that while there have been small challenges in implementing this system; there is a problem of liquidity at the Treasury?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in respect of the salaries he is talking about, there is no problem at all in liquidity to pay salaries.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like the Assistant Minister to assure this House that this new system is not prone to any fraud given that it all happens in darkness. What assurance can he give this House that this system will not lead to any fraudulent activities?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the system is meant to reduce human contact in delivering services or payments to the suppliers, particularly. This is meant to reduce abuse and corruption, but I cannot give an assurance that human beings will not invent some ways of trying to defeat this. What I know is that the intention is actually to reduce human contact in transactions, so that payments are smooth, and there is no way of people trying to hide others’ cheques and so on.

Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. While appreciating that this system will really go further to ensure that people carrying huge sums of money are more secure, I think it is also important for the Assistant Minister to tell us or give us the maximum time that this system should take to have an individual’s money transferred to his bank account. I have just met somebody from around here, a member of this House, whose money was confirmed to have been transferred to a bank last week on November 25, 2009 but up to now that money has not been reflected in his account. How long is this system supposed to take?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the system is meant to act within a day. Once the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) gets instructions of the correct account, it transfers money the next day. If it receives instructions today, the next day money is transferred to the banks. But in my answer here I have said that there are some banks which delay in remitting money to individuals who are supposed to get it. But the CBK is taking action to streamline this.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the constituencies staff have not been paid for the last two months. Can the Assistant Minister tell us when these salaries will be paid, and

He is introducing the issue of CDF. Can you clarify the---

Our constituencies’ staff members, who are employees of Parliament, have not been paid for the last two to three months, and our understanding is that it is not necessarily because of the system. Members of Parliament have been paid salaries, but constituency staff have not been paid. When are they going to be paid?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, My Ministry remits money for payment to the constituency staff to Parliament, and it is Parliament which does the payments there. As far as I am concerned, we do not have any shortage of money to pay the staff. We do not pay the staff of the constituencies directly from the Ministry.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question Dr. Kones was asking, if I can paraphrase it, is, has the Ministry of Finance remitted money to Parliament to enable it further remit it to the constituencies?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

asked the Minister for Lands:- (a) what steps were being taken to address the plight of the people of Koibarak Location, Kosubwa, Sangurur and Tuiyobei Sub-locations, who have not been issued with title deeds after conclusion of work 20 years ago; and, (b) whether he could state the reasons for the delay, and indicate when the title deeds will be issued.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) Kosubwa, Sangurur and Tuiyobei make Koibarak Location and the plight of the people is being addressed through the Sungurur Adjudication section which is at a very advanced stage. (b) The delay has been occasioned by limited resources and the same is being provided this financial year, and title deeds should be issued within the financial year.

I wish to thank the Assistant Minister for this answer. It is the first time the Assistant Minister has come out to give some positive response. I wish to ask him the date, or the month, when they are coming to give out the title deeds for Koibarak Location in Marakwet District.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, within 90 days from today, I think I will be in his constituency to issue these title deeds .

I have no other argument. I only wish to thank the Assistant Minister for that answer.

asked the Minister for Fisheries Development:- (a) if he could explain the Ministry’s policy on the funding of aqua culture/construction of fish ponds and state the criteria for identifying beneficiaries of the funding; and, (b) whether Kisumu Town West Constituency is one of the constituencies that have been identified by the Ministry as beneficiaries of such funding during the current Financial Year, 2009/2010.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) During the Financial Year 2009/2010, the Government of Kenya allocated Kshs1.12 billion to support this farming enterprise productivity programme under the Economic Stimulus Programme initiated recently by the Government. The effort is being made because of the evidence that fish production has steadily declined and also to help in the programme of creating jobs, increasing nutrition and wealth creation for Kenyans. Through the programme, the Ministry will promote public/private sector investments in production of quality and affordable seedlings and fish to enhance aquaculture extension systems. The criteria for identification of beneficiaries in constituencies was based on the score card marks, which were given as 0 to 5, depending on the national aquaculture inventory survey, which was conducted in 2006. It basically dwelt on issues like water availability, climatic conditions, soil sites, infrastructure and many others. The implementation of this programme is as provided in the Economic Stimulus Programme manual guideline, which was given by the Ministry of Finance, which I table here.

(b) Based on the above identification criteria, Kisumu Town West Constituency is not one of the constituencies identified for funding during the current financial year. However, my Ministry has designed Phase II of this programme, which will integrate harvesting of rain water at household and institutional levels to upscale aquaculture production and encourage production of irrigated crops and other crop products. This will enable entry of constituencies that are missing from Phase I, like Kisumu Town West and others, to enter into the programme.

The criteria adopted by the Ministry in deciding which constituencies should benefit is all wrong. The understanding was that the Economic Stimulus Programme would benefit all the constituencies. However, you will notice that the fish pond activity programme and the suitability for farming is based on one aquaculture inventory, water availability, aquaculture suitability and riparian near water. In this case, is it by coincidence that Funyula constituency, which you happen to represent, comes on top of the list and Kisumu Town West, which I represent, comes in the category of Isiolo North, Isiolo South, Sigor and Mbooni? Is it fair?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is not an issue of fairness or unfairness. As I said, most of the implementation programme is based on the surveys that were done in 2006. I think in this aquaculture stimulus programme for this year, we have also gotten some funding component to do further studies to improve on surveys that were done in 2006. But at this point in time, that was the only data that we had existing, and I was not the Member of Parliament for Funyula when it was ranked number one.

In the circumstances, could the Minister kindly confirm that as far as this classification is concerned, something seems to have been wrong, and give the House the assurance that in the next programme Kisumu Town West will be included?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I said we depended on the data that had been produced. But we can only confirm that, that data is not correct once we do the current survey that is going on. It is then that we will compare the information which was generated then, and the information which will come out this time. We have also said that in nearly the whole country you can do aquaculture, but we need finances. So we started with Phase I, and we are going to have Phase II. If you look at the riparian constituencies that we are talking about, in these ones I was basically targeting the Coastal region, where we are having another programme that is called “Amariculture”. We have already initiated the programme on that. When the funds are available I am sure we are going to take care of Kisumu Town West Constituency.

asked the Minister for Education:- (a) whether he could state the amount of money disbursed to Tetu Constituency to finance Primary School Infrastructure Improvement Programme (PSII); (b) whether he could table the list of primary schools in Tetu that have benefited from this fund, indicating the amount disbursed to each school; and (c) when the Ministry will increase allocation under the fund, considering that infrastructure in most schools is inadequate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) A total of Kshs39.55 million was disbursed to Tetu Constituency to finance 42 primary schools identified to benefit from the PSII. (b) Here is the list of the 42 schools.

(c) The Ministry will increase the allocation of the PSII fund depending on the Treasury’s budgetary consideration and when more funds become available from our development partner.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister tell us the criteria that was used to select those schools?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, we identified the schools within the district. We used the poverty index and the permanent classroom gap in the district based on the pupil/classroom ratio, permanent toilet gap in the district based on the pupil/toilet ratio and the non-school gap calculated using the net enrolment data from the district.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the PSII has been done well by the Ministry and has assisted many schools in the country. However, in the last few months, this programme seems to have come to a standstill because of some problems. What has the Ministry done to ensure that the officers who are directly concerned with the disbursement of those funds are reinstated?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is the Ministry which disburses the funds when they are available.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the Assistant Minster aware that the work done in those schools is of poor quality compared to the work done by the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF)? If so, is he prepared to initiate audit to make sure that those schools get value for their money?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the hon. Member repeat his question?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the Assistant Minister aware that the work done in those schools is of poor quality compared to the work done by the CDF? The classrooms funded by the CDF appear to cost less than the amount disbursed by the Ministry, and yet they are done better?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think the hon. Member should appreciate what the Government has done through the CDF. The money that is given to schools through the PSII is little. This money subsidizes the parents’, CDF and development partners’ contribution to those schools.

asked the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security:- (a) why Police Sergeant Ibrahim Allah (P/No.16471) who was involved in an accident in 1997 while on official might patrol on Mombasa Road has not been compensated; and, (b) when the Government will compensate the officer.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.

(a) It is true that Police Sergeant Ibrahim Allah, P/No.16471, was involved in an accident and sustained injuries on 25th December, 1997. The accident happened while he was on highway patrol duties along Nairobi/Mombasa Highway. Thus he was entitled to injury pension benefits and insurance compensation under the group personal accident scheme. He was required to appear before the Medical Board for assessment to determine the compensation package but did not avail himself despite being requested to do so.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank the Assistant Minister for the response. However, Sergeant Ibrahim Allah is one of those Kenyans who have been denied their rights after they have served this nation dutifully for over 12 years. The reason that the Assistant Minister has provided for not providing a compensation package to that officer is because he failed to appear before the Medical Board for assessment. I have documents here which say that the Commissioner of Police requested that officer to provide some documents. In the Commissioner’s letter, it was not stated that Sergeant Allah should have appeared before the Medical Board. In addition, I have other documents from the same officer dated December, 1997. The Base Commander, Machakos Police Station sent that officer to the Medical Officer of Health, Machakos District General Hospital requesting the doctor to treat him and make an assessment on injuries sustained by that officer. That officer dutifully did all that, and yet 12 years down the line, he is yet to be compensated having served this nation for all those years. Could the Assistant Minister table evidence, if he has any to show that, that officer was requested to appear before that Medical Board? I beg to table these documents!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed, it is true that we requested the officer to avail himself for assessment. I have the letter here which I would also like to table and share with my good friend. This letter was written in October, 1998.

Another letter was also written to the Director of Kenyatta National Hospital (KNH) to assess the extent of the injuries and a copy was given to the officer. The ex-officer has not availed himself for assessment and there is no way I can compensate him without being assessed. I have the letter requesting the officer to go for the assessment and I would like to share it with the hon. Member who has asked this Question.

Now that the hon. Member has asked this Question, I request him to prevail upon the –ex-officer to move with speed to the Medical Board in order for the assessment to be done so that I can pay him the compensation which has already been approved to the officer before the next financial year. This is because I have the money and I am willing to pay immediately the assessment is done.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has said that he has some money. Could he tell us how much money he has and how many people who deserve compensation are going to be covered by that money? When was it made available and under what Vote Head?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, our budget for various Heads was passed in this House. We have not utilized any money which is in our Vote for purposes of compensating those who get injured. I am saying this because we have not---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I asked a specific question. How much money has been set aside for compensation and under what Vote Head?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I cannot categorically state the amount of money which was set aside for that particular purpose. That is because compensation varies from one victim to another. So, I cannot specifically give you the actual figure.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank the Assistant Minister for acknowledging that there is money for that officer to be paid. But I want to know from him where he wants that officer to go. Where is the Medical Board situated? Is it in Nairobi or Marsabit where the officer hails from? How long will you take to pay him in the event that he appears before the board? Can you assure the country that it will be immediate?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the letter which was written and copied to Mr. Ibrahim Allah states that he should go to Kenyatta National Hospital (KNH). He knows where the assessment should be done.

Last question, Mr. Chachu!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank the Assistant Minister for being sensitive to this case. Realizing that this officer has waited for 12 years to be paid the money, will he be paid with interest because justice delayed is justice denied?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to confirm that once the assessment has been done, we will be able to fast-track his payment.

asked the Minister for Water and Irrigation:- (a) whether she could confirm that Chepsonoi Water Project was intended to supply water to both Nandi Central and Western Province; and, (b) whether she could give an assurance that residents of Nandi Central will also be supplied with water from the project.

Is the Minister for Water and Irrigation not here? Hon. Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs, where is your Minister?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a light note, the Prime Minister has just walked in. I think he will be better placed to deal with the Minister for Water and Irrigation.

Rt. Hon. Prime Minister, where is your Minister for Water and Irrigation?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I cannot confirm their whereabouts right now, but I can undertake to ensure that she comes here next time - maybe tomorrow - to answer the Question.

Hon. Members, the House will expect the Minister to offer an explanation as to why she is not present this afternoon to answer this Question and, further, why the Assistant Minister is not available in her absence. Further, she will offer an explanation as to why, in the absence of her Assistant Minister, another Minister or

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to make a Statement today on the subject of keeping the reform momentum going.

I want to begin by expressing my gratitude to the House and the people of Kenya who have sacrificed and continue to toil for the total liberation of this country. It is important that we occasionally stop and reflect on where we have come from, the distance we have travelled and where we want to go. I am inviting hon. Members not to engage in sentimentalism. But I want to make the point that in the barrage of criticism and condemnation that we sometimes face, we often gloss over the gallant struggles Kenyans have had to persevere and the price they have had to pay in their quest for a better country.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to salute the exemplary service that the current Parliament has rendered to the Kenyan people. More than any other Parliament in our history, the Tenth Parliament has debated and enacted the highest number of reform- oriented legislation. It is this Parliament that entrenched the National Accord into the Constitution and created the Grand Coalition Government as an instrument of bringing about peace, reconciliation, national healing and fundamental reforms. The various commissions, task forces and initiatives that are driving the reform process have emanated from this august House. The hon. Members of this House have also been relentless in their pursuit for accountability, transparency, good governance and an end to the culture of impunity. You deserve commendations for that. Mr. Speaker, Sir, as a Member of the Executive, I can confirm that hon. Members have kept us on our toes. Their interventions, though sometimes resented, have made the Government more responsive to the needs of its citizens.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in our 40 years of Independence, no Government has been put in place with a specific agenda like that given to the Grand Coalition Government. We were put in place specifically to pursue reforms. As we end the second year, it is appropriate that we reflect on and evaluate the progress that has been made so far. The National Reform Agenda was agreed through the Serena mediation process presided over by Dr. Kofi Annan and the Panel of Eminent African Personalities. That Agenda had four items.

Agenda No.1 was stopping the post-election violence and restoring fundamental human rights. Agenda No.2 was addressing the post-election humanitarian crisis. Agenda No.3 was political settlement through the National Accord. Agenda No.4 was long-term reform issues. Mr. Speaker, Sir, my address today will focus on the reform process generally, and on Agenda No.4 in particular. Kenyans are well aware that Agenda No.4 comprises:- (i) Land reforms.

We will take clarifications, beginning with hon. Imanyara.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Prime Minister, whom I commend for being one of the heroes of our liberation, started by congratulating this House for passing many laws. However, I think he should have given credit where it is due, and that is to you, Mr. Speaker of all the reforms under the Agenda No.4, it is only Parliament that completed the reform process of reforming our Standing Orders within the timeframe set within the Agenda No.4 Reforms. More importantly, could the Prime Minister agree with me that given the agreement that he and the President signed on 16th December, 2008, and in particular, Article 6 of that agreement which states that parties designate a committee of eight Ministers who will represent the parties to the Kenya National Dialogue and Reconciliation as the body to oversee the day to day management and implementation of this agreement, which is about the reforms---- Would the Prime Minister agree with me that the daily fighting we have seen between Members of the Cabinet, who constitute the Serena Team, starting with him and

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to thank the Prime Minister for that Statement. Recently, some Kenyan leaders were labeled as anti-reformists by foreign countries. Is this part of a strategy to keep the momentum of reforms going on? What is the Government doing to ensure that the people who have been banned from travelling to foreign countries because of being anti-reformists do not curtail the reform agenda?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister for his Statement this afternoon and for outlining how far we have reached on the reforms under Agenda No. 4. However, in view of the fact that the Government is bloated and the amount of money that is being used to run and operate it is very high, could he clarify to the House whether there is any possibility that the number of Ministers could be reduced to 20 before we conduct the next general election?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am sure the Prime Minister is not expecting us to congratulate him on the pace of reforms, especially on behalf of the youth of this country. Could he clarify to the youth of this country why it has taken very long to move from stopgap measures such as the Kazi Kwa Vijana Programme to creation of real jobs for the young people in this country in the reform process that he has spoken about here? Could he also clarify if the stumbling block could be the lack of leadership and teamwork displayed at the Ministry of Youth Affairs and Sports that continues to be dogged with wrangles, lack of teamwork and coordination and thereby losing total credibility in the face of the young people of this country?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also want to thank the Prime Minister for that statement of policy. I would like him to confirm something about the Kazi KwaVijana Programme. Could he confirm that the programme is not in the current Budget as a result of inefficiency that was disclosed in the last financial year? Could he also confirm that, that happened due to the failure by the Government to implement specific reforms on public expenditure management? What is the Government doing about that?

Rt. Hon. Prime Minister, will you respond to those five issues? Depending on how you manage your time, we will see whether we can deal with another five.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member for Imenti Central, Mr. Imanyara, has referred to Article 6 of the National Accord and implied that the Committee of eight Ministers who were supposed to oversee the implementation of the Accord are fighting. To my knowledge, I have not seen any of those eight Ministers fighting. Mr. Wetangula has just confirmed to me that he is one of the eight Ministers and he has never fought publicly. Mr. Imanyara has even implied that there is a fight between the Prime Minister and another Minister. I would like to say that nothing could be further from the truth. There has been no battle between the Prime Minister and any other

Order, hon. Members! We will take another five clarifications. Please, be precise on the clarifications that you want.

Yes, Mr. Wamalwa!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank the Prime Minister for saluting Parliament for the role it has played in the reform process under your leadership.

He has pleaded with this House not to throw out the baby with the bath water, that is the Truth, Justice and Reconciliation Commission (TJRC). There is also another baby, the National Cohesion Commission (NCC). These are some of the babies conceived out of the reforms of this House. What has the Government done to operationalise these commissions and ensure the road to national healing and reconciliation is speeded up, just like the other reforms?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me join my colleagues in congratulating our Prime Minister for giving us a detailed report on reform progress in this country.

On the question of eradication of poverty and unemployment, I know the Government is doing all it can to address the situation. However, I would like to know

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would also like to thank the Prime Minister for such a detailed Statement.

I agree very much with him that it is the responsibility of private sector to create jobs. However, it is the work of the Government to provide a conducive environment for the private sector to operate. Currently, there is a problem of insecurity in the country. We know without proper security, the private sector will not carry out its businesses competitively. What programmes does the Government have in place to address the security problem in the country more urgently as we wait for police reforms that are taking place?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me join my colleagues in congratulating the hon. Prime Minister for the speech he has made.

Hon. Shabesh asked a question on the Kazi Kwa Vijana Progamme. To the best of my collection, the amount of money allocated to this progamme is almost equal to the amount we get as Members of Parliament for CDF every year. The CDF projects, despite the fact that the budget has been 2.5 per cent, are more visible on the ground than projects sponsored by the Central Government with a budget of 97.5 per cent. Why has the Government not decided to channel the Kazi Kwa Vijana Programme money through CDF fund, so that everything is handled through the CDF framework which is able to reach the grassroots level more effectively than the Central Government?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank the Prime Minister for his work and the steps he is taking to make sure we have reforms in place despite the fact that some people want to bring a vote of no confidence in him. These are the people who are not appreciating his work. Is he aware of those people who intend to bring such a Motion from his party? What is the implication of such a Motion? Could he tell---

Order, Member for Molo Constituency! You have the Floor to seek a clarification from the Statement issued by the Prime Minister. Is that the end of your request for clarification?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Fair enough, Mr. Emilio!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, now that we are headed for the East African integration, I would like to know from the Prime Minister what he is doing to ensure that there is harmonization under Agenda No.4 reforms on the police in Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania. We want to see harmonized police force within the East African region.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to commend the Prime Minister for his Statement. He has talked about the general welfare of Kenyans.

I want him to clarify the fate of slum dwellers in Nairobi. About 50 per cent of inhabitants in my constituency do not have proper documents to their land. Is he aware some private developers have started demolishing their structures? I wish he could protect the people of Embakasi Constituency, the way he has done in Langata Constituency! In fact, my constituents and I, are totally loyal to him.

On the face of it, that appears very selfish and has very little to do with reforms!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, one of the items under Agenda No.4 is to address past imbalances. This House has established committees such as the Equal Opportunity Committee to look at areas of imbalances. The National Cohesion Act also stipulates that any Government appointment should look at the face of Kenya. This has not been going on very well in several Ministries.

My question to the Prime Minister is: In situations where Ministers have pertuated imbalances or tried to address past imbalances by appointing persons from their communities or areas that support their political parties, what measures has he taken to address those? Specifically, Mr. Prime Minister, would you address the fact that some Ministers are using a memorandum that you wrote to them telling them that they are responsible for the calibre of Chief Executives employed in parastatals under them as an excuse of flouting recruitment processes stipulated under public organizations?

Rt. Hon. Prime Minister, you may now respond.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with hon. Wamalwa and Imanyara about the role that the Chair has played in all these reforms process. I should have actually started there.

Thank you very much, Rt. Hon. Prime Minister.

Hon. Wamalwa also wanted to know about the National Integration Commission. It is time for these commissions to hire staff, so that they can begin their work. A number of them are actually going through that process, including the TJRC. So, it is not that this particular institution is dormant. I want to assure the hon. Member that very soon he is going to see the commission on its feet and running.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, hon. James Maina Kamau, the Member of Parliament for Kandara, wondered why the Government cannot go back to history and repeat what was done after Independence. A tripartite agreement which ended up with the Government and the private sector recruiting an additional 10 per cent of the unemployed people. Circumstances have changed. The economic circumstances have also changed. It is difficult to force the private sector to employ additional 10 per cent at a time when the economy is growing through such difficult times. So, as I mentioned, the Government is also bloated and we have been going through a process of retrenchment. However, we have actually stopped retrenchment right now, and are employing selectively more staff in the Government. So, I would like to urge the hon. Member to have that understanding.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I just wanted to seek a clarification on a very important point.

Order, hon. Chanzu! My directions were clear that we would do a first round and an extra one depending on how the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister managed his time; that time is now spent. So, we will not do any more on this subject.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I just heard the Prime Minister use a word that I did not understand; “ unbwogable” . What does that mean? Is it parliamentary?

Rt. Hon. Prime Minister, what is this word “ unbwogable” ?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member must be living in another country!

I do not know whether he wants to know who is bwogable .

All I was saying, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is that the Prime Minister is unbwogable !

It is a strange word and, so, for the moment, we will take it for whatever it is worth.

Next Order!

Hon. Mutava had the Floor! You still have 15 minutes!

Thank You, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to support the Motion very ably presented to us by the Minister for Lands, Mr. Orengo and, perhaps, if I may just rehearse some of the points that we made yesterday.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as we supported the Motion, we raised questions with regard to the need to clarify in the policy the issue of ownership of land anywhere in the Republic. We had an issue with the productivity targets and guidelines. Thirdly, we requested that further light be shed on Kenya, especially where non-Kenyans own companies with Kenyans. We raised the issue of acquiring irregularly or illegally acquired land. We raised questions regarding taxation that accompanies the policy. We were concerned about the question of squatters and I must say that we commend the Minister for the length to which he has gone to take care of the marginalized. I think the question of the refugees, Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) and squatters; that theme of compassion runs very deep in this policy and I think it is something that we cannot take lightly. As we exercise compassion and mercy, we should not sacrifice justice on the other hand. We must hold the two in this policy, in creative tension, to be merciful but also to be just. That is why we raised the question of negotiating or giving squatters statutory rights to negotiate with land owners. We saw this as a possible avenue of creating real problems if we are going to go that path.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I had just started to discuss a matter that the Minister spent quite a lot of time on yesterday and I think one that we cannot take lightly, that is the issue of constitutional protection of this policy. I refer the Minister to page 12 of the policy which reads:- “Fundamental issues in the Policy should be anchored in the Constitution. For these reasons, land should be treated as a constitutional issue.” The policy continues to say:- “In an ideal situation, a Constitution should set out the broad principles for the governance of land, and establish an efficient and equitable institutional framework for

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also wish to support the Motion. I wish to support the Draft Land Policy. It is a policy that has been long overdue. Indeed, as my learned senior, Mr. James Orengo, was moving the Motion yesterday, he indicated that this is the very first time in the history of our country, stretching over four decades, that we have been able to try and put to pen and paper, a definition of what we want our land policy to be like.

We all know that we have had many conflicts in this country because of land. Individuals and communities have fought over land. Even as a legal practitioner at one time, you could tell from homicide cases in the courts that they were largely related to land disputes. You would find a lot of homicides in areas where there was the highest pressure on land. People kill each other over an inch, a meter, or an acre of land. This Policy attempts to define and give direction on what our land policy should be. Even without going through the document, one can easily point out very many things that are amiss in our land situation in the country. In the beginning, we have too many

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Motion on Land Policy. From the onset, I want to congratulate the Minister for his bold step and I believe this is characteristic of his signature bravery that we have known him for. I know the Minister is dealing with very vicious land dealers. To reform this is quite a daunting task. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is ridiculous that at this point in time, we are still arguing on the size of land we have as a country. We still do not know whether some parts of the country are really part of Kenya or not. I have in mind the Migingo Island issue. I think it is very important that at this point in time, we come out very clearly and know where our boundaries are. This includes our boundaries on water bodies. This would be a beginning point to land reform. We must know what we are talking about as a whole, before we go to subdivisions. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this move is timely as far as management of land in this country is concerned. In my constituency, Rangwe, we do not have a lot of land problem. However, with these reforms, I now look forward to the Minister to come over and his style of recognizing land ownership system that we have; customary land ownership system, issue the people or Rangwe with title deeds. I also want to add that land is a very important resource. In fact, land is the single most important production resource. In Kenya today we have not given our land sector the prominence and attention it deserves. Looking at our budget today, the Ministry of Lands has been allocated Kshs2 billion. The Ministry of Lands has a potential of turning around this country’s economy if well managed. This is the more reason I want to congratulate the Minister for having stepped in with the much needed reform in this sector. If you compare the Ministry’s budget with that of the Ministry of Finance, 80 per cent of the Kshs2.3 billion allocated to the Ministry of Lands goes to salaries and recurrent expenditure. This leaves a mere Kshs400 million for development. This cannot take the land reform agenda anywhere. Before any reforms, we are reliably told that the Ministry of Lands generates a revenue of Kshs6 billion. If we invest in the reform of the Ministry of Lands to the tune of about Kshs1 million per year, in the next three years or four years, the Ministry is

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to support the Motion on the Floor. We are talking about land which is a resource. It is our heritage that belongs to the dead, the living and the unborn. It is for that reason that land should be managed well for all those categories of people. Ours is one of those resources that have been mismanaged by the people who have been in power or the people who have been given the responsibility to handle it for the benefit of Kenyans. It is good that the Minister has

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Judging from the weight of this matter and the number of people waiting to contribute, may I kindly ask that we reduce the time for every hon. Member from 20 minutes to five minutes.

I am sure the hon. Members have heard your sentiments. So, those who are speaking---

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if the hon. Member was patient, I would have finished. I was just finishing so that others can have an opportunity to contribute. I can see how my colleagues are looking at me. They think I am taking all the time. Anyway, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me conclude by congratulating the Minister. The structure that the Ministry has given here is super. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I beg to support.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to start by congratulating the Minister, even as I support this policy and Motion. That is because there is a lot at stake in the implementation of this policy. It has been in the public domain for too long. But I also want to say that this is one of the Ministries that has a lady Permanent Secretary and I am so sad that I do not see her here today. That is because it is amongst women that we see great work being done. I am sure the reason why this policy is finding itself on the Floor of this House today is because of the Minister, Permanent Secretary and the work that is being done in that Ministry. So, I want to congratulate this Ministry. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, a lot has been said, especially by the Chair on the Committee on Lands and Natural Resources. They have brought in a lot of issues and so, we do not have to pretend to be more experts than them. They have raised the concerns that many people have on this issue. What I would like to bring on board to the Minister and his officers is the fact that within this policy--- Again, I will speak my pet subject for women and youth of this country. We need to demystify the importance of land. I feel that the reason why we have had conflicts and unresolved issues in this country is because we still want to create the impression in Kenya – and it is an African problem - that unless you own land and a title deed, then you cannot be prosperous. For me, the 70 per cent of this population that is young people will never own that land. So, unless we want them to live a hopeless life with no hope of prosperity, we must demystify the importance of land. That is because our land has become degraded and our population expansion has also gone beyond what we expected. Therefore, our land can no longer sustain the economy of this country. We can no longer speak boldly about agriculture being the backbone of this country. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, within this policy and the discussions that will be heard as we formulate laws, I really would like this Ministry to speak loudly to the Government and other line Ministries; that they must do something about creating alternative means of prosperity for this country. That is because if we leave it in the hands of the Ministry of Lands to ensure that everybody gets a title deed so that they can get a bank loan, then of course, what we are looking for is conflict amongst the young people. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, today, we have funds---

If I have to make my mind between hon. Godana and hon. Kiraitu Murungi, I will give the chance to the senior Minister, Mr. Kiraitu Murungi.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to support this Motion. Actually, I was supposed to second the Motion, but I was caught up in other issues and was not able to come. So, I really appreciate for giving me this opportunity. First, allow me to congratulate my friend, hon. James Orengo and the staff in his Ministry and, indeed, the previous Ministers who started this policy before hon. Orengo took over that docket. We have read the Sessional Paper and to me, it is comprehensive. It addresses all the sensitive land issues that we have been grappling about for the last 20 and more years. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we all know that land is the most sensitive social, economic and political issue. Indeed, the reason why it is so sensitive is because our lives are bound up with land. We have our homes on the land, we live on the land, we eat from the land, we fight over the land and lastly, when we die, we also become part of the land because we are buried in the land and life continues.

Asante sana, Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, kwa kunipatia nafasi hii, ili nichangie Hoja hii ya kuidhinisha Sera ya Ardhi iliyobuniwa. Ningependa kuanza kwa kumpongeza Bw. Orengo, Serikali, mashirika yasiyo ya Kiserikali na wahusika wote walioshughulika katika kuibuni Sera hii ya Kitaifa ya Ardhi. Bw. Orengo ni kiongozi ambaye amepigania haki na mageuzi katika taifa letu, na tuna bahati sana kama taifa kuwa naye pamoja na Bw. Wakoli na Bw. Rai katika Wizara ya Ardhi. Tunawashukuru kwa kazi ambayo mnafanya. Tunajua kwamba wamefanya kazi ili Sera hii ifike hapa Bungeni. Kufikishwa kwa Sera hii katika Baraza la Mawaziri hakukuwa rahisi. Pia, kupitishwa kwake na Baraza la Mawaziri hakukuwa rahisi. Kwa hivyo, ninatoa heko kwenu na maafisa wenu ambao wamefanya kazi sana kuhakikisha kwamba Sera hii imefika mbele ya Bunge hili, ili ijadiliwe. Ukiangalia historia ya ardhi, utaona kwamba si wengi ambao wameyafurahia mapendekezo yaliyoko katika sera, hasa mabwenyenye ambao wamekuwa na ardhi kubwa. Ardhi kubwa imekuwa katika mikono michache, ilhali Wakenya wengi wakiwa bila ardhi. Tunajua kwamba hii sera ni nzuri. Wenzangu wameichangia hapa na ningependa kuwaunga mkono. Lakini wasiwasi tulionayo ni kama kweli hii Sera itahifadhiwa na Serikali. Tunafahamu kwamba katika Bajeti ya mwaka huu, licha ya Wizara ya Ardhi kuleta ombi la zaidi ya bilioni sita ilipewa bilioni mbili tu. Pia, tunafahamu kwamba mabadiliko ambayo yamependekezwa katika Sera hii yatagharimu zaidi ya bilioni tisa.Wasiwasi tuliyonayo pamoja na Wakenya wengine ni kama pesa hizi zitatolewa. Tunaomba Sera hii na mabadiliko ambayo yamependekezwa yafadhiliwe na Serikali.

Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, tukiangalia historia ya nchi hii, tunaona kwamba kwa miaka 46 tangu tupate Uhuru, hatujakuwa na Sera Rasmi ya Kitaifa kuhusu Ardhi. Tunafahamu kwamba wakoloni walipoingia hapa, walipata babu zetu na mifugo na mimea yao. Wakoloni waliwanyang’anya ardhi yao na kuwafanya wapagazi wao na maskwota. Mambo hayo hayakurekebishwa tulipopata Uhuru. Wakenya wachache ambao walikuwa na pesa walinunua ardhi kupitia mpango wa SFT. Kuna Wakenya ambao walibuni makampuni ya kununua ardhi na kuna wale ambao walianzisha mashirika mbali mbali ya kununua ardhi hii. Watu wengi waliokuwa maskwota hawakushughulikiwa.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I thought a proposal had been made that we do not speak for more than 10 minutes.

Order! That is not a point of order.

Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, nilikuwa ninasema kwamba mimi ni mjukuu wa skwota. Labda, Mheshimiwa mwenzangu hajawahi kujua shida za maskwota na ninaomba nipewe nafasi ili nimweleze. Shida ya maskwota ni kubwa sana hasa katika Wilaya ya Trans Nzoia na katika Mkoa wa Pwani. Kuna Wabunge ambao wamechangia swala la maskwota katika Bunge hili. Nilileta Hoja ya kupendekeza tuwe na hazina ya maskwota katika Bunge hili. Katika Bunge la Tisa, Mhe. G.G. Kariuki alileta Hoja ya maskwota na akapendekeza utaratibu wa kuweza kuchunguza na kupata maskwota halisi. Huu ni mchango wa maana sana. Ninamwomba Waziri aangalie michango ya Wabunge walio katika Bunge hili na Bunge zilizopita. Pia Mhe. Koigi wa Wamwere alileta Mswada katika Bunge la Nane na mchango wake ulikuwa mzuri sana na uko katika nakala za Bunge hili. Ningependa Waziri aone ni vipi tunaweza kushughulikia swala hili, ili tutambue maskwota halisi, tuweke hazina ili tuwanunulie mashamba. Pia, inafaa tushughulikie shida ya mabwenyenye ambao wako katika afisi kuu za Serikali na wanaotumia nafasi zao kujinufaisha kwa kujifanya maskwota. Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, wakati tulipata Uhuru kulikuwa na Idara ya Kamishina wa Maskwota. Huyo Kamishina alikuwa anaitwa “Mzee Zacharia Shimechero”. Yeye ndiye alikuwa Kamishina wa mwisho wa Maskwota na ofisi hiyo ikatupiliwa mbali. Kati ya idara ambazo Sera hii inapendekeza kubuni, ninapendekeza tuwe na idara ya kushughulikia maswala ya maskwota ambayo itakuwa na kamishina, ili aweze kushughulikia swala la maskwota na wakimbizi wa ndani. Tukifanya hivi, tutalitatua swala hili kwa muda wa miaka mitano au kumi. Hili ndilo ombi langu. Ningependa kuunga mkono Sera hii na kuwapa wenzangu nafasi.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would like first of all, to congratulate my colleague, hon. Orengo for having worked out a very good document in the name of National Land Policy (NLP). It has been a song for a long time. Those who have been in Parliament for the last 15 years have always been told about NLP. But it is, indeed, hon. Orengo who brought this good document. This issue should have been debated long time ago.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to join my colleagues to also congratulate the Minister for streamlining the activities at the Ardhi House. Once upon a time, Ardhi House was like a cattle market. There was so much going on at Ardhi House. You did not know who was doing what at that office. I think it was hon. Kimunya who started cleaning up the place and hon. Orengo has just perfected it. Now, when you go the Ardhi House, it looks like a Government office not a cattle market. In those days---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the hon. Minister in order to demean a very important economic activity of a huge size of the population of this country by referring what is happening at Ardhi House as cattle market? We are very proud to own these cattle and we are very organized.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the reason I referred to cattle is that I have been a vetenerian for too long, so I always talk about cattle. I appreciate where the hon. Member of Parliament comes from. It is a pastoralist region. For the last 20 years, I have spent my life looking after cattle, goats and other livestock. What I really meant is that there was so much going on at Ardhi House. You did not know whether you were going to a Government office or a market place. Title deeds were being traded in the place. Now, there is order.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this land policy will solve many problems. Our development targets cannot be achieved without having a land policy. We cannot produce enough food for Kenyans unless we have a good land policy. We cannot address the historical imbalances without this land policy. We know that the Europeans that came to this country established two systems. There was customary system and statutory land tenure system. These systems have actually contributed to the problems that we have today. It is upon us through this NLP to ensure that there is harmony and order in the way we treat our land. These two systems created very rich people with tracts of land and another group with very little land and mostly, poor land. With the coming of Independence, we have tried to deal with this system. However, it is now that we must address some of the injustice arising from these two systems.

As we know, the Rift Valley Province is a productive area and it was settled by the Europeans. With the coming of Independence, some Kenyans bought land and others got it free. As late as five, ten, twenty years ago, people have acquired land either through purchasing it or being given free. Once upon a time, we have heard about imperial presidency where a President would wake up one day and give you a piece of land, anything from two acres to 2,000 acres. Those days are gone. We must have a legal framework that addresses these issues, so that possession of land should be done through the legal means. The President now cannot give a piece of land to anybody. The Minister

Order, hon. Members! Every hon. Member has the right to use up the time that they have been allocated.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for some Members in this House to be classified as “Zakayos” and others as otherwise? Zakayos are short people according to the Bible, who cannot be seen.

Order, Assistant Minister! Proceed, hon. Affey!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to support this Motion. I want to congratulate the Minister and the staff at the Ministry of Lands for becoming very progressive Kenyans, and for being first among equals in the management of this Coalition Government. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as a Committee of this House, we were able to look at this policy and discuss it. We even went ahead and the Minister has given us a day’s workshop and my able Chairman has communicated the views of the Committee. I thank him for being faithful to the mandate we gave him as Members of the Committee. The issues I want to raise are brief and, perhaps, I just want to highlight some of the reasons why, indeed, I support this policy. First of all, this policy acknowledges that there were historical injustices that were committed in the country and that for us to recreate this country, we must first of all, squarely face some of these historical injustices that have happened. One of the critical injustices that I know and that, at least, the people I know from the north east do refer to all the time is what we call the “North Eastern Dilemma and the Garissa Dilemma.” Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this dilemma emanates from a historical perspective. We know that in that part of the country, at some stage of our life and in the history of this country, there was conflict; people there went to war and there was an insurgency and there was a threat in that part of the region going to Somalia. In order for the Government of the time to particularly protect River Tana, the boundary was extended into Garissa District. Today, as we speak, three kilometers into Garissa District along the River Tana is administered from the Coast Province. Therefore, if you have a farm in Garissa and you want to have a title deed, it means that you have to travel from Garissa to Coast Province on the other side to see the Lands Officer in Coast Province. For somebody who comes from the North Eastern Province, the papers are processed there. There was no time over the last 40 years even after we had settled that matter---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the hon. Member in order to mislead the House that there are no other people living there except the people of Garissa? There are people from Coast Province who are living there. It is not only people from North Eastern Province who are living along the river.

Order, Mr. Assistant Minister! Are you answering your own point of order?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I agree absolutely and I am saying that even the people who are living there--- If you have been to Garissa, you will first cross River Tana and then you go to Garissa Town. Even those other Kenyans who are not necessarily from North Eastern Province who live in that part essentially should be serviced from North Eastern Province like the rest of north eastern residents. But what they do is that, they have to go all the way to Coast Province. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is not a matter that I want to debate with the hon. Member. I am just saying that this was a historical problem. It is a fact! We are not questioning the other side of the river. I am only talking about the side of the river that is in North Eastern Province. There is a side of the river that is in North Eastern Province and there is a side of the river that is in Coast Province. At the time this decision

Nakushukuru, Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, kwa nafasi ya kutoa mchango wangu. Katika sehemu ya uwakilishi Bungeni ninayotoka, kulitoka mmojawapo wa waaanzilishi wa Taifa hili, marehemu Paul Ngei. Mheshimiwa Ngei alipokuwa akipigania uhuru, alitoa sauti moja ambayo ilidhihirika katika Kenya nzima, kwamba Mwafrika alitaka haki yake. Msemo aliosema ni kwamba Mwafrika alitaka Uhuru na mashamba yake au uhuru wa Mwafrika na mashamba ya Mwafrika. Jambo hili linadhihirisha kwamba kutoka mwanzo mpaka leo, bei ya ardhi ni ya thamani sana kwa Mwafrika. Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, wananchi wamepigana na Mzungu. Lakini hawakupigana na mzungu ili kunyakua meli zake za kupitia kwenye bahari; wala hawakupigana na mzungu ili kupata ofisi zilizokuwa kubwa katika nchi. Lakini walipigana ili kupata ardhi yao. Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, mengi yamezungumzwa na mimi nitazungumza kwa ufupi kusema kwamba ulanguzi wa nchi au wa ardhi umekita mizizi kabisa katika nchi yetu. Wenzangu, kwa mfano, mheshimiwa Prof. Olweny, wamesema kwamba sharti kuwe na haki na usawa katika suala hili la mashamba. Nchi imenyakuliwa na waliopewa madaraka. Ni katika nchi hii tu utapata kwamba wale ambao wamekuwa marais wanamiliki ardhi kubwa kiasi cha mkoa mzima, ilhali wananchi wenyewe hawana uwezo wa kukataa jambo hilo kwa kauli moja. Watu wanalala na kuamka na kutembea lakini hilo bado linafanyika nchini humu. Ni muhimu Waziri wa Ardhi kutambua kwamba ni rahisi kutunga sheria lakini kuzitimiza ni jambo jingine – hapo ndipo kuna kazi. Sheria zilizopo sasa hazisemi Rais achukue karatasi na kutia sahihi eti amempa mtu fulani ekari 10,000 za ardhi huku wananchi wengine wakikosa mahali pa kuishi. Ni jambo la aibu sana kuona kwamba leo katika nchi hii, kuna watu wanaoishi kando kando ya barabara na hali kuna wale ambao wana ardhi kubwa. Bwana Naibu Spika wa Muda, ningemsihi Waziri wa Ardhi kufanya kazi yake. Shida ya Wakenya ni kutotii sheria. Wao wanatumia ofisi walizopewa kuhifadhi sheria kuvunja sheria za nchi. Namwomba Waziri afanye awezavyo, ili katika kila sehemu ya uwakilishi Bungeni atenge sehemu za makaburi. Jambo ambalo limechangia vile vile mizozo ya mashamba ni sehemu za makaburi. Ningemwuomba ahakikishe kwamba ametenga sehemu za kuzika watu. Sisi Wakristo na wale wanaozingatia desturi za Mwafrika, itatuchukuua muda kuiga mtindo wa kuchoma mili. Sharti tuishi tukijua kuna sehemu zilizotengewa makaburi. Kuhusu cheti cha kumiliki ardhi, ni jambo la aibu sana kuona Serikali inawashika watu na kuwaweka ndani eti inadai kodi. Ni Serikali hiyo hiyo inayotoa vyeti vya kumiliki ardhi. Utapata Serikali ikitangaza kwamba cheti fulani cha ardhi hakifai. Tunashindwa kuelewa kuna Serikali ngapi. Je, tuna Serikali mbili; moja ya kupeana cheti na nyingine ya kutwaa cheti hicho? Ijapokuwa nahimiza Serikali ilinde vyanzo vya maji, naishtumu Serikali kwa kufurusha watu kutoka sehemu ambazo Serikali yenyewe iliwapa watu vyeti vya kumiliki ardhi. Hivi sasa, Serikali inawafurusha bila kuwapa pahali pengine pa kuhamia. Ni lazima cheti kilichotolewa na Serikali kitambuliwe na kuheshimiwe na Serikali yenyewe.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to add onto the voices of others in congratulating the Minister for bringing a land policy at this time. It is a shame that we have not had a policy on land since Independence because it would have solved a number of things. It is an embarrassment and a shame that we are still talking about squatters and IDPs many years after Independence. Squatters, as we know, were created before Independence. When Africans worked on the farms of the white settlers, IDPs were created then. I come from a place that was formerly called the “white highlands”. People were displaced from this place and pushed beyond hon. Chepkitony’s area up to the valley. So, the displacement of people has been going on in this country. If we had a policy in place, maybe, some of these things would have been handled already. If we had such a policy in place, especially if you look at the chapter that articulates issues on IDPs, I believe that the IDPs would not be handled the way they have been at the moment. We would be having inventories of who they are whenever a problem arises. It was a pity to hear the Chairman of the Task Force and the Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security saying that they have different lists. They have already done three inventories and each one of them has different results and yet these are human beings who are countable. It is a pity that we have such a scenario. I believe that this policy is going to sort out a number of issues that have been ignored for a very long time. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the document has handled the issue of land holding size very well. I am impressed by the fact that we would have to have a minimum holding also, so that we understand what it means to farm, depending on different land uses. If you talk of farming, you definitely cannot farm wheat on half an acre, neither can

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would also like to take this opportunity to thank the Minister for this very important document, which has come out after 46 years of Independence. I also extend similar congratulations to the Ministerial team, which was key to the consolidation of this Report. In addition, I wish to extend my congratulations to the Cabinet, which gave the final approval to this document. The two principals, who fully participated in the deliberations on this document in the Cabinet, also qualify for congratulations. That good working relationship between the two principals is very important and very healthy for this nation. I should also take the opportunity to thank the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Lands and Natural Resources. He brought out, very brilliantly, very sensitive issues on this National Land Policy document. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, one critical area that I have noted concerns those areas which have not been given consideration, in terms of land survey and land demarcation since Independence. The kind of funding that the Ministry of Lands has been getting has been very inadequate. This is an issue that needs to be addressed to provide adequate funding, so that this Ministry can execute land demarcation in all regions of this country. It is also important to note that we have lost very important beacons on the

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the National Land Policy. I would like to begin my contribution by supporting this Policy and point out that it is a great shame that this country has operated without a land policy for up to 30 years. We say it is a shame because, as it has been alluded to by other speakers before me, we have had a lot of mess in this country arising from the mismanagement of land resources in this country. Therefore, this Policy is a very welcome intervention to ensure that we alleviate the problem. All the same, the Policy will take over from the messed up situation we are in. The most important thing is that even as the Policy looks at the issues, it has touched on land issues in Kenya and it has, in my view, recognised that the land policy problems have been a political issue. This is well captured from 1895 when we had colonialism in this country. The policy of the colonialists was very clear. It was to entrench a dominant settler economy while subjugating the African economy through administrative and legal mechanisms. In other words, the whole idea of the colonial administration was to build a settler economy at the expense of the people; taking away land from the people and use their labour. That was the hallmark of the colonial system. When the transition to Independence came, the Policy has also captured that the whole idea of decolonization process represented an adaptive, co-optive and preemptive process which gave the new

Hon. Members, we have come to the end of today’s Sitting. Therefore, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow, 3rd December, 2009, at 2.30 p.m.

The House rose at 6.30 p.m.